MCR-QP Stackable Radiator Series Released

Ah ok, so it works like the fan mounts often used on Lian Li cases. If that is able to hold the radiators then that's great :)

well, it will *work* with closed corner fans, just requires a little modding to open up the closed corner which I have done more than one myself.

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Originally Posted by gabe

you can't install a closed corner fan in a stackable config

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I'm fairly sure that's what Naekuh is objecting to.

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Originally Posted by gabe

Dual-row radiators also run in parallel Utnorris. The only difference is the additional pressure drop caused by the presence of the fittings.

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I get that, however in this situation the water is going to flow in the direction of least resistance and therefore my concern would be that it would bypass the first rad and just flow through the second rad. I am not saying that no water would flow through the first rad, but rather that the amount would be siginificantly less than the second rad and so forth. Now I have never ran two rads, video cards or anything else in parallel, so this is more of a question than statement and I am just trying to understand how this will work. I am thinking about running my 2 gpu's in parallel, but from what I have read is that you lose performance because the water by-passes the first block for the most part and goes to the second block. I guess it would help if someone could link me a picture or diagram showing how the water should flow.

Would this would fit at the top of an ATCS 840 and be out of the way of the motherboard? The total thickness is 93mm. (I'd measure the case myself but I don't have one yet.)

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Originally Posted by Utnorris

I am thinking about running my 2 gpu's in parallel, but from what I have read is that you lose performance because the water by-passes the first block for the most part and goes to the second block. I guess it would help if someone could link me a picture or diagram showing how the water should flow.

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that's inaccurate. as long as the pressure drop in both devices is similar, coolant will flow in both.

There is a loss in coolant velocity in a parallel setup, causing a local loss in heat removal capacity, but since pumps having a finite ability to push fluid, parallel setups may become beneficial in many circumstances. GPU cooling is among the most typical candidates for such configurations. By minimizing the overall pressure drop in the loop, you maintain high heat removal where it counts most, the CPU, while keeping adequate heat removal capacity at the GPU's.

Have you done any testing gabe on a setup with one 120/240/360 rad compared to a stacked scenario? I think this would be extremely interesting results.

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Originally Posted by gabe

that's inaccurate. as long as the pressure drop in both devices is similar, coolant will flow in both.

There is a loss in coolant velocity in a parallel setup, causing a local loss in heat removal capacity, but since pumps having a finite ability to push fluid, parallel setups may become beneficial in many circumstances. GPU cooling is among the most typical candidates for such configurations. By minimizing the overall pressure drop in the loop, you maintain high heat removal where it counts most, the CPU, while keeping adequate heat removal capacity at the GPU's.

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Thank you for the explanation.

Very clever, I especially like the compatibility with existing MCR rads so you only have to buy one stackable. I'm curious to see what the general performance gain is also. If double thicknesses are showing around 8-15%, and someone's earlier test was showing stacking in series worth nearly 30%, I'll guess at a 20% figure with preferences towards the higher speed or 38mm pressure fan scenario with just one set of fans more with more fans obviously....how much I couldn't even guess.

I agree some very well articulated test data to go along with this would be helpful for people. Something like a single MCR320 with fans in pull vs MR320 with the same fans in push & Pull vs the three fan scenarios on this stacking setup. Keep it simple like fans used and percent gained or degrees lost in water temperature of a simulated system heat load...something like that would be great.

This would provide the necessary fan power guidance people will be looking for as that's a bit unknown with this stacking, and likely fairly important with the air pressure drop doubling stacked like this.

My vote goes for the MCR420. Quad sizing is becoming common enough. Unfortunately right now, it's reserved for the high priced double thickness only segment. Time for a quad, please...:D

The stacking is a really really nice option though. I'd like to see a stacked MCR320 setup against a PA120.3 for example...I bet it's good!

if I had a tube of thermal paste and no homework I could do a test right now.... but at school its just not practical for me to remove radiators from the loop as my dorm room is small and not all of my tools are here :\

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Originally Posted by gabe

you can't install a closed corner fan in a stackable config

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Sure you can,
http://powersportsstore.com/images/m...uct%20tape.jpg

3M Red tape!

Anyways any reviews for the stacked rads gabe?

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Originally Posted by gillbot

Sure you can,
http://powersportsstore.com/images/m...uct%20tape.jpg

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http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0...=1211049680000

:rofl:

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Originally Posted by gabe

If you have space, you are better off (always) installing a second rad by itself (in series), but if you do not have enough room, then this will give a very serious boost to your thermal performance at relatively low cost.

The problem we all face here is to strike a balance between space constraints, thermal performance, comfort of operations AND cost of solution. If space is the defining factor, then it forces compromises on the other 3. The stackable solution aims at minimizing the impact on cost of solution.

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I see thanks :)

Plus if your cool like me then you can run the stacked rads in series with waterflow opposite to airflow and get even more performance :up:

Is there a release date yet ?

I Want It!~

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Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

Plus if your cool like me then you can run the stacked rads in series with waterflow opposite to airflow and get even more performance :up:

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How?

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Originally Posted by eXa

How?

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http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...0&postcount=27

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Originally Posted by gabe

that's inaccurate. as long as the pressure drop in both devices is similar, coolant will flow in both.

There is a loss in coolant velocity in a parallel setup, causing a local loss in heat removal capacity, but since pumps having a finite ability to push fluid, parallel setups may become beneficial in many circumstances. GPU cooling is among the most typical candidates for such configurations. By minimizing the overall pressure drop in the loop, you maintain high heat removal where it counts most, the CPU, while keeping adequate heat removal capacity at the GPU's.

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First off thanks a lot for involving the community in your product launch. It's a great idea and well implemented.:up:

Second I am happy to hear a real Pro and Expert say what I've been telling people for years. There's more than one way to plumb a loop and it's crazy some of the notions people have about how water flows and closed loops operate. Even after setting up examples similar to your sandwiched rads and showing temps people still think it's less than ideal and point to linear setups as "normal" and "standard" so it's nice to see you promoting a New standard :D

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Originally Posted by CyberDruid

First off thanks a lot for involving the community in your product launch. It's a great idea and well implemented.:up:

Second I am happy to hear a real Pro and Expert say what I've been telling people for years. There's more than one way to plumb a loop and it's crazy some of the notions people have about how water flows and closed loops operate. Even after setting up examples similar to your sandwiched rads and showing temps people still think it's less than ideal and point to linear setups as "normal" and "standard" so it's nice to see you promoting a New standard :D

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its like the old myth that used to perpetuate itself around the DD watercooling forums and maybe here too that running more than one rad in a single loop wasn't beneficial to temps because it created too much restriction :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Yeah like surface area doesn't matter to heat transfer.

I've always liked the MCR line...it's simply the most cooling for the least money. Now it'll be even easier to get the amount of cooling you need into a small area.

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Originally Posted by Chruschef

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...0&postcount=27

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Oh, i see. But that would require someting like 2x 38mm fans in thicknes between the rads. Well no biggy if you have room for it.

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Originally Posted by CyberDruid

First off thanks a lot for involving the community in your product launch. It's a great idea and well implemented.:up:

Second I am happy to hear a real Pro and Expert say what I've been telling people for years. There's more than one way to plumb a loop and it's crazy some of the notions people have about how water flows and closed loops operate. Even after setting up examples similar to your sandwiched rads and showing temps people still think it's less than ideal and point to linear setups as "normal" and "standard" so it's nice to see you promoting a New standard :D

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well if you are able to feed both rad fresh air it is less ideal to stack them instead.

This idea is great because often you dont have any place to put a second rad, but you have quite alot of room behind the one rad you already have.

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Originally Posted by eXa

Oh, i see. But that would require someting like 2x 38mm fans in thicknes between the rads. Well no biggy if you have room for it.

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see the premafrost worklog, I have pics of the sandwich and its ~150mm thick

What kind of fans would you want sandwiched between these?

Edit: Also, how would two of these stack (ha!) up to a thicker rad like the Feser?

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Originally Posted by CyberDruid

First off thanks a lot for involving the community in your product launch. It's a great idea and well implemented.:up:

Second I am happy to hear a real Pro and Expert say what I've been telling people for years. There's more than one way to plumb a loop and it's crazy some of the notions people have about how water flows and closed loops operate. Even after setting up examples similar to your sandwiched rads and showing temps people still think it's less than ideal and point to linear setups as "normal" and "standard" so it's nice to see you promoting a New standard :D

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Yeah, running them sandwiched in parallel as this setup is doing is really no different than every single double thickness radiator out there with the exception of the very minor additional losses at the fittings. They all run two rows of tubes at the same time in parallel. Series has just become the standard because parallel requires more detailed planning around restriction of components and generally not necessary when pumps are strong enough to run in series anyhow.

The problem with parallel lies when someone might want to run a highly restrictive CPU block and something with very low restriction in parallel loops. There are combinations out there where you could potentially have 10X more restriction on one route than the other. In that case the CPU block could only see 10% of the system flow rate. Even at a high/strong system flow rate at something like 2GPM, the CPU block may only see .2GPM, that's entering flow rate loss territory (Below .7gpm)...and that's what you need to be careful with on parallel systems. Then there is the fact that we're generally spoiled now with overly powerful pressure oriented pumps. It's becoming pretty hard to run too much in series to a point where flow rates are below 1GPM with today's DDC/MCP type pumps. The old weak on pressure pond style pumps were much more critical in the pumping power and pressure drop specs. Who knows though, blocks continue to become more and more restrictive, so times may change again to where pumping power becomes more of an issue again..:shrug:

I think the "Run it in series only" standard is just what's proven to work over the past couple of years, it requires no real planning or understanding of pressure drop difference between components or the net end resulting flow rate. Generally you can buy a Laing DDC or D5, string up your heart's desire in series and call it good.

In this case, it's stacked rads, equal pressure drop, 50% system flow rate provide to each radiator and the same as all double thickness radiators. Running them in series might make a laboratory test difference, but it's likely near immeasurable for us general use folk..:up:

Now this I like and just have one question: I have one MCR320. Can this be used and just add the "new" rad to it or is this something we need to buy both rads,etc?

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Originally Posted by Movieman

Now this I like and just have one question: I have one MCR320. Can this be used and just add the "new" rad to it or is this something we need to buy both rads,etc?

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You can just add it to the one you have :cool:

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Originally Posted by Vapor

You can just add it to the one you have :cool:

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ooooh.. :woot:

Sandwiches are fun, even primitive ones :cool:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5247/thingside2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Vapor

Sandwiches are fun, even primitive ones :cool:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5247/thingside2.jpg

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Looks like the ghostbuster backpack :yepp:

No need to quote the poster above you tho ;)

Is it possible to use those variable SLi/crossfire fittings to link the 2 radiators together? I am thinking of getting one of this to go with my MCR320. Then use 38mm fans and connect rads in such a way that they are in series instead of parallel.

I suppose not everyone has seen mine so here are the pics:
zip ties work wonderfully to hold the 2 fan housings together, they are each screwed into their respective rads
I use 38mm SanAces and cutout 25mm yate loon housings as shrouds for the push side rad :)

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/795/perma50qn4.jpg

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2363/perma48zr2.jpg

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/153/perma49xh2.jpg

That's just just a rad sandwich, that's a rad party sub. ;)

Sandwiched rads are a great idea on how to improve performance without a lot of cost involved. I'm glad to see swiftech picking up on it and making it happen.

So where do we get these short fittings to stack them? Need the second MCR320 for my core i7 build soon.

For someone clever enough, even these new rads can be run in series with the proper fittings if your super anal about things like that. ;)

does anyone know where online I can get one of the stackable rads in Canada? ive spent the weekend looking and emailed a few places asking them of availability, but cant find any...

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

For someone clever enough, even these new rads can be run in series with the proper fittings if your super anal about things like that. ;)

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hey are you calling me anal??? :mad:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

For someone clever enough, even these new rads can be run in series with the proper fittings if your super anal about things like that. ;)

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Indeed.

Will be interesting to see the various difference between parallel and series (both inline flow and opposing flow). Probably minimal, but would still be interesting :)

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Originally Posted by MattZehr

does anyone know where online I can get one of the stackable rads in Canada? ive spent the weekend looking and emailed a few places asking them of availability, but cant find any...

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AFAIK, retailers don't have these just yet. Give them a little more time. :up:

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Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

hey are you calling me anal??? :mad:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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Moi?:para:.....Never. :rofl: You don't have the new one in your picture anyways. :p:

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Originally Posted by Vapor

Indeed.

Will be interesting to see the various difference between parallel and series (both inline flow and opposing flow). Probably minimal, but would still be interesting :)

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Yeah, I'm not expecting much difference either. :yepp:

A quick note for people wanting to sandwich:

19mm Yate Loons being cored out make perfect shrouds to use with 38mm fans and the fan screws included with the rads, though the screws take some effort to force 'into' the 38mm fan (San Aces, Ultra Kazes, Panaflos all seem to be good to go though :up: ).

heres my temps with the stack and mosfets and CPU in the loop. my cpu needs a lapping.

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Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

I forgot that I never told you guys what Kind of temps I was getting :)

mind you this is with a low ambient of about 12c (guess), but all the same this triple rad sandwich performs AMAZING and the denkis are @ 70% atm

(I raised my voltage in this screeny to make the temps more believable ;))
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/706/tempsqg3.jpg

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Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

heres my temps with the stack and mosfets and CPU in the loop. my cpu needs a lapping.

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Temps are not bad but you also stated in the original post that your ambient temperature was about 12C so ideally adding about 10C to those temps would be more of a typical room temp, which is still good.

This seems like a great news because it adds choice and flexibility to the water cooling solutions.

On the other hand, the engineer in me is wondering about the flow paths, rates, pressure drops and flow characteristics of a sandwich setup...

I mean, I've toyed around with graphs and I just can't seem to justify a parallel flow design for such a large pressure drop vs going sandwich-series. This could become a big enough problem for users with multi-rads setups that are looking to add an extra block for example (ie, I own 2x mcr120-qp and 1x mcr220, 1 cpu block and 1 gpu block with a mcp665 pump and a micro-res v1 in a tj-09).

I've already bought an all-swiftech wc loop and I'd be interested in adding a fullcover 4870x2 to my current 4870+q9650 loop, that is why I consider this strange scenario :P

Anyway, any chance that you could release some more technical info so that I could do some back-of-the-envelope calculations? Better yet, a test setup running a single mcr220 vs a stack? That would be awesome because if I get that 4870x2, I'd be interested in adding an extra 220-stack :)

Is the stackable rad compatible with other wc rads ? (magicool, feser, etc)

Release date ?

Oh man I can't wait to see how this performs as my current build is probably going to see an upgrade to the GPU to a 4870x2 and it would eliminate the need for me to have an external radbox :O

Since I don't feel like reading through 10000x pages, do we need our own fittings if gabe doesn't include any? Like would I need say 4x compression fittings and then a bit of tubing between them correct? Also, this may sound stupid as I never explored rad sandwiching but how would you mount the fans? I'm assuming you don't screw them in to both sides so.....:confused:

He is going to be including a set of 4 fittings with the new rads so no further purchase is needed. The first half of this thread was figuring out if they were to be included or not.

Any testing yet? I'm doing a new build, and going back and forth between an MCR240 stack against the RX240. Same price...

Any chance Skinnee will be getting a sample to test?

I would really love to see some numbers on this thing stacked.

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Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

I suppose not everyone has seen mine so here are the pics:
zip ties work wonderfully to hold the 2 fan housings together, they are each screwed into their respective rads
I use 38mm SanAces and cutout 25mm yate loon housings as shrouds for the push side rad :)

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Not too shaby buddy :clap::clap:

but space, space, space, you need alotoff as my Russian cousin used to say..or was it in in that funny Austin Power movie (the spie that shagged me or something) with that girl called Allotava Gina ?

on a much more serious note, what you have is what we call a parallel air with a serial coolant setup. can you measure the water-temp delta switching from parallel/serial to parallel/parallel, it shouldn't be too difficult to do. in other words, leave your fans as they are, but just switch the coolant so it flows parallel..

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Originally Posted by soulesschild

Oh man I can't wait to see how this performs as my current build is probably going to see an upgrade to the GPU to a 4870x2 and it would eliminate the need for me to have an external radbox :O

Since I don't feel like reading through 10000x pages, do we need our own fittings if gabe doesn't include any? Like would I need say 4x compression fittings and then a bit of tubing between them correct? Also, this may sound stupid as I never explored rad sandwiching but how would you mount the fans? I'm assuming you don't screw them in to both sides so.....:confused:

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http://www.swiftech.com/products/ins...-stackable.pdf

just 3 pages, not 10,000 ;)

i hope it's not rude to post .. but give this a thought

a length of MCR320 is 410mm right? fans 25mm thick, MCR is 34mm thick ..

how bout ..

MCR120 + fan + MCR120 + fan + MCR120 + fan + MCR120 + fan + MCR120 + fan + MCR120 + fan + MCR120 + fan
= 34(7) + 25(7)
= 413mm (wind tunnel?)

just a thought ... :lol2:

ps: you could stack 4xMCR320 below TJ07

Lol ^^
16.5 inches long, its possible to do if you really need to lol.
20.1 inches long for 38mm fans. Use 7 high speed panaflows.
I wonder how restriction and how the temps would be likes lol.

Imagine what you could do with a mountain mods case lol.

Someone create a dual top mod for a RD30!

It only makes sense to include plugs. If you dont, customers are going to purchase it and then get all pissed off that they dont have the required hardware to stack their rads. Besides, no one would be purchasing a stackable radiator unless they were going to stack it, or were retarded in which case they should be charged the extra money for being stupid.

And yes I voted Gabe.

Thanx Gabe!!! I have SEVERAL different uses for stackables.

Also, thanx for taking some feedback from us here at XS!!!!

Thanks Gabe! Any word on availability/shipping dates? :)

This may bring new life to an MCR220 I've had laying around for a while.

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Originally Posted by iandh

This may bring new life to an MCR220 I've had laying around for a while.

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and theres the beauty of it all :)

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Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

It only makes sense to include plugs. If you dont, customers are going to purchase it and then get all pissed off that they dont have the required hardware to stack their rads. Besides, no one would be purchasing a stackable radiator unless they were going to stack it, or were retarded in which case they should be charged the extra money for being stupid.

And yes I voted Gabe.

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The ugly duckling plugs (AND o-rings) are included.

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Originally Posted by gabe

The ugly duckling plugs (AND o-rings) are included.

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are you planning a MCR-QP-RES-STACK series too? i have a spare 220QP-RES downstairs :up:

Holy snap Gabe!!! Thats amazing!
I have 2x MCR320's. 2x MCR220's. and MCR120, I think I'll now have to get two of these stackable MCR320's. xD

Your awesome!!

Edit: Wait, how do you put screws in for the fans in between?

Jab-Tech is planning on getting a bunch of MCR320 stackables soon. I'll post results of Low CFM single, High CFM single, Low CFM stacked, High CFM stacked.

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Originally Posted by smee

Holy snap Gabe!!! Thats amazing!
I have 2x MCR320's. 2x MCR220's. and MCR120, I think I'll now have to get two of these stackable MCR320's. xD

Your awesome!!

Edit: Wait, how do you put screws in for the fans in between?

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Easy....Allan head cap screws. You can get the screw in and the allan key has an angle to fit. Might be a little trickier with 25mm fans though.

i already saw them on ebay.

How hard is it to remove a snap rivet and once removed can it be reused?

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Originally Posted by msgclb

How hard is it to remove a snap rivet and once removed can it be reused?

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+1

I'd hate to end out damaging a radiator because the rivet is stuck on too tight. I have one MCR320....a stackable unit would be a nice addition. Would 3 YateLoon mid-level fans work well with a stacked pair of MCR320s???

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Originally Posted by autobot

+1

I'd hate to end out damaging a radiator because the rivet is stuck on too tight. I have one MCR320....a stackable unit would be a nice addition. Would 3 YateLoon mid-level fans work well with a stacked pair of MCR320s???

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yes.

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Originally Posted by msgclb

How hard is it to remove a snap rivet and once removed can it be reused?

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someone already asked it in this thread, sadly cant remember where :shrug:. just read again, you'll find it! ;)

Any ETA on the availability yet?

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Originally Posted by raidflex

Any ETA on the availability yet?

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Originally Posted by bot@xs

i already saw them on ebay.

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^^ that

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Originally Posted by OdinEidolon

someone already asked it in this thread, sadly cant remember where :shrug:. just read again, you'll find it! ;)

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I knew that kitchen knife would be good for something!:D

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=100

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Originally Posted by autobot

+1

I'd hate to end out damaging a radiator because the rivet is stuck on too tight. I have one MCR320....a stackable unit would be a nice addition. Would 3 YateLoon mid-level fans work well with a stacked pair of MCR320s???

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They are easy, fingernail, knife, whatever, to pry the "male part" up, and out, then pry the "female part" up and out. Re-use them forever. I have them on all my fans, got some with a lian-li a long time ago then when some computer website company went under got a whole bunch for cheap.

40 now in stock @ Jab-tech.

I got mine from Jab-tech yesterday. My only complaints: It didn't come with instructions or the required tubing. Small annoyances, really, but the instructions really would have been handy for showing the correct way to install the rivets. The rest of my system uses 3/8" ID tubing, so getting the 1/2" ID tubing required for the stackable meant making a late night run to Home Depot. I really don't like to buy products that don't include *everything* you need to use and/or install the product in the box. Even if you have to bump the price up a buck or two, it would be very nice to have about three inches of 1/2" ID tubing included with the rad.

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Originally Posted by pneubmatic

I got mine from Jab-tech yesterday. My only complaints: It didn't come with instructions or the required tubing. Small annoyances, really, but the instructions really would have been handy for showing the correct way to install the rivets. The rest of my system uses 3/8" ID tubing, so getting the 1/2" ID tubing required for the stackable meant making a late night run to Home Depot. I really don't like to buy products that don't include *everything* you need to use and/or install the product in the box. Even if you have to bump the price up a buck or two, it would be very nice to have about three inches of 1/2" ID tubing included with the rad.

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no instructions? this is included with every radiator: http://www.swiftech.com/products/ins...-stackable.pdf

are you sure?????

Guess im a little slow but glad to see these out.
This will be my next rad purchase.

To bad both of my ST rads are of the (built in res types).

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Originally Posted by gabe

no instructions? this is included with every radiator: http://www.swiftech.com/products/ins...-stackable.pdf

are you sure?????

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Yup, positive. I searched the box looking for them. I kinda figured that the .pdf file from your link was supposed to go to the printers and then included with the radiator.

You know, you could always attach the instructions to a 3" piece of 1/2 inch tubing... ;)

The "Warning! don't poke holes in your radiator!" sheet was there, just not the installation instructions.

OK, I've been playing around with my new Swiftech rad sandwich for most of the day. Some random thoughts about it...

1. As mentioned, it did not come with the instructions it was supposed to have. It had the "Warning, don't put a hole in your radiator with screws that are too long!" sheet in it. The very same sheet that came with my first MCR320-QP-K which was not stackable. This is strictly a guess, but I'm thinking there was some confusion somewhere at Swiftech, and whoever was supposed to make sure the actual *stackable instructions* from Gabe's link above screwed up; they put the "Warning! Don't punch a hole in your radiator with screws that are too long!" in the box, but failed to put the instruction sheets in the box. I did print up the instructions from Gabe's link. The very first section of the instructions gave the "warning! don't put a hole in your radiator with screws that are too long!" warning, so I kinda think the seperate sheet with that warning wasn't supposed to be included. Gabe, if you should happen to read this, you might want to call one of your retailers (I got mine from Jab-Tech) that have the stackable radiator in stock, and ask them exactly what pieces of paper they have in their boxes. Make sure you are super clear that a sheet that just has the warning about screw lengths isn't what should be there. It should be three sheets of paper detailing the installation instructions.

2. You must be *very very* accurate in the lengths of tubing that you cut for the small fittings. If you're going to screw up the length, do it shorter rather than longer. If your tube is cut even just a touch long, the snap rivets won't be able to seat correctly. Trust me on this. :)

3. The tubing junction should either have two wider worm gear clamps, or four of the small ones included. Centering the narrow gear clamp so that it gets equal purchase on both of the short fittings is not easy. Especially if you cut your tube 1/16" too long. It would be much more secure to have two of the small gear clamps on each fitting. OK, that sounds confusing. Let's just say it would be great to have a total of four worm gear clamps, just like the two that are included.

4. The extra rivets came in handy. This is also why it's best to err on the short side on the tubing. The rivets are completely dependent on seating *ALL* the way in order to provide a good attachment for the fans. If your tube is cut even ever so slightly long, this isn't going to happen, and the rivets will not be holding nearly as well as they should. Unfortunately, I cut my tubing a bit on the long side. The rivets at the other end of the rad were able to get a good seat, but as you work closer to the fittings end, a gap becomes visible and widens til you get to the last fan mounting holes, which really have a nasty gap. Totally my fault, and easily fixed, either by making sure you cut the tubing correctly, or talking Gabe into bumping the price of the rad up a few bucks and giving us pre-cut lengths for both 25 mm fans and 38 mm fans.

5. Amazingly, my flow rate did not drop at all after installing the second rad. I had exactly one GPM prior to installing the second radiator, and that's exactly what I have now. Pretty wild... I don't know how it's possible, but I double checked the flow rate.

6. Great temp results so far. I had six fans on my single MCR320-qp-k, but right now I only have three total on the rad sandwich. I have six more on order so that I can totally max out the rad sandwich with nine fans. So right now, I've lost three fans but gained one radiator. My temps have dropped 5 C at idle, and 8 degrees when loaded. I'm expecting that adding another six fans will change those numbers quite a bit.

7. The inside of the radiator was totally clean. I flushed it like crazy, and got absolutely nothing out of it.

All said, I'm very happy with it. Thanks Gabe and Swiftech!

pneubmatic What system do you have (specifically, whats under water)? I have $122 in my wallet, of which is the exact I need for extra fans/stackable rad... Is it worth the buy? I'm starting to think it is.

core i7 920 OC'd to 3.6 and a single EVGA GTX295.

Water blocks are a Swiftech Apogee GTZ and EK GTX295 wb., then of course the rad sandwich, which is 2 Swiftech MCR320's. This is all one loop, btw.

I've only been running the stack for just over a day, but I'm very pleased with it so far.

Guys how does a Swiftech MCR220 sandwich compare to one Feser 240 rad?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lu(ky

Guys how does a Swiftech MCR220 sandwich compare to one Feser 240 rad?

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While I haven't seen official tests, it would stand to reason that the Swiftys would kick the crap out of Feser. One Swifty is at most 8% off the best rad. IIRC another rad will add at least 50% more to the first Swifty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pneubmatic

OK, I've been playing around with my new Swiftech rad sandwich for most of the day. Some random thoughts about it...

1. As mentioned, it did not come with the instructions it was supposed to have.

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I am confirming that there were NO installation guides included. There was a misunderstanding internally. We are mailing the missing installation guides to resellers today.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pneubmatic

2. You must be *very very* accurate in the lengths of tubing that you cut for the small fittings. If you're going to screw up the length, do it shorter rather than longer. If your tube is cut even just a touch long, the snap rivets won't be able to seat correctly. Trust me on this. :)

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I have added a statement in the installation guide to further warn users about this:

http://www.swiftech.com/assets/image...ts/warning.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pneubmatic

3. The tubing junction should either have two wider worm gear clamps, or four of the small ones included. Centering the narrow gear clamp so that it gets equal purchase on both of the short fittings is not easy. Especially if you cut your tube 1/16" too long. It would be much more secure to have two of the small gear clamps on each fitting. OK, that sounds confusing. Let's just say it would be great to have a total of four worm gear clamps, just like the two that are included.

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I agree that 4 clamps would be ideal, unfortunately there is not enough room for that (if you use 25mm fans in between the rads).

The width of the band for mini worm drive clamps is 0.300" (7.8mm). This is too wide to use behind the barb.. so you have to use it over the barb to make the seal. Using one clamp over 2 barbs sits the band true over the barbs. We didn't find that centering the clamp was particularly difficult to accomplish, so didn't see it as a problem.

If anyone has a better solution, let me know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pneubmatic

.. talking Gabe into bumping the price of the rad up a few bucks and giving us pre-cut lengths for both 25 mm fans and 38 mm fans.

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I have practical issues with that, issues that I couldn't fix at the time of release:

1/ we are held by a higher standard, so we would need to cut the tubes absolutely square. We need to find good cutting equipment for that. Right now tube cutting is not our primary activity as you can imagine, so we are not properly equipped for it.

2/ with cost of labor being so high, we need to automate the process. It becomes a question of capital investment. We released the stackables following demand from XS members.. so it was a trial, and we made a small quantity to test the market. If the product takes off, then I'd would certainly be inclined to provide precut tubing.

8c at load, now thats what I am talking about :woot: glad to see I wasnt full of it when I came up with this stacking :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gabe

I am confirming that there were NO installation guides included. There was a misunderstanding internally. We are mailing the missing installation guides to resellers today.

I have added a statement in the installation guide to further warn users about this:

http://www.swiftech.com/assets/image...ts/warning.jpg

I agree that 4 clamps would be ideal, unfortunately there is not enough room for that (if you use 25mm fans in between the rads).

The width of the band for mini worm drive clamps is 0.300" (7.8mm). This is too wide to use behind the barb.. so you have to use it over the barb to make the seal. Using one clamp over 2 barbs sits the band true over the barbs. We didn't find that centering the clamp was particularly difficult to accomplish, so didn't see it as a problem.

If anyone has a better solution, let me know.

I have practical issues with that, issues that I couldn't fix at the time of release:

1/ we are held by a higher standard, so we would need to cut the tubes absolutely square. We need to find good cutting equipment for that. Right now tube cutting is not our primary activity as you can imagine, so we are not properly equipped for it.

2/ with cost of labor being so high, we need to automate the process. It becomes a question of capital investment. We released the stackables following demand from XS members.. so it was a trial, and we made a small quantity to test the market. If the product takes off, then I'd would certainly be inclined to provide precut tubing.

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OK, to start off, this is exactly why I will continue to buy and use Swiftech products. It's not often that the CEO of a company will come to a forum and give responses to his customer's concerns. Yup, you may call me an official Swiftech fan boi now if you'd like. :)

I'm the reason they have to put "Warning!" labels on everything. Looks like I succeeded again here. :shocked:

I completely understand what you're saying about including the tubing. Hopefully the new rad will take off and you'll be able to justify the additional expense.

Now about the worm gear clamps... I was able to find some small enough that you could put two per fitting on the MCR320 rad sandwhich. However, the max OD they will accommodate is 5/8". I got them at Home Depot. They are labeled "Ideal Stainless Steel Hi-Grade Nickel Alloy SAE SIZE #4, model No. 62604" They will work on Tygon tubing that is 1/2" ID X 5/8" OD. I am using 25 mm fans, too. Scythe SFF21G's to be exact.

Thanks for your response, Gabe, and thanks for the outstanding products, too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

8c at load, now thats what I am talking about :woot: glad to see I wasnt full of it when I came up with this stacking :D

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I agree, i had a lot of people telling me it wouldnt work and even run hotter:shakes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pneubmatic

However, the max OD they will accommodate is 5/8". I got them at Home Depot. They are labeled "Ideal Stainless Steel Hi-Grade Nickel Alloy SAE SIZE #4, model No. 62604" They will work on Tygon tubing that is 1/2" ID X 5/8" OD.

Thanks for your response, Gabe, and thanks for the outstanding products, too.

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I buy the same at Lowes in a 10 pack for a few $. Size 4 Ideal and they are rather thin compared to the typical tube clamp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gabe

...
1/ we are held by a higher standard, so we would need to cut the tubes absolutely square. We need to find good cutting equipment for that. Right now tube cutting is not our primary activity as you can imagine, so we are not properly equipped for it.

2/ with cost of labor being so high, we need to automate the process. It becomes a question of capital investment. We released the stackables following demand from XS members.. so it was a trial, and we made a small quantity to test the market. If the product takes off, then I'd would certainly be inclined to provide precut tubing.

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Perhaps you could even offer a "Premium Stack" that uses SLI Watercooling Bridges between the two radiators ? It would certainly look cleaner, and more solid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 3Z3VH

Perhaps you could even offer a "Premium Stack" that uses SLI Watercooling Bridges between the two radiators ? It would certainly look cleaner, and more solid.

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That would be great, but it would only work for guys with 38 mm fans. The SLI fittings are too long even at their shortest to work with 25 mm fans.

Gabe,

I just received my new stackable MCRs. They are well made and I'm sure they work beautifully. I'll be cleaning them first before installing.

Thanks for releasing this product evolution. Glad you listen to your customers.

Regards
Ian

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IanY

Gabe,

I just received my new stackable MCRs. They are well made and I'm sure they work beautifully. I'll be cleaning them first before installing.

Thanks for releasing this product evolution. Glad you listen to your customers.

Regards
Ian

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I haven't seen you post much these days Ian, and I was wondering about you..glad to see you are still active in the community, and good luck with your upgrade!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pneubmatic

OK, to start off, this is exactly why I will continue to buy and use Swiftech products. It's not often that the CEO of a company will come to a forum and give responses to his customer's concerns. Yup, you may call me an official Swiftech fan boi now if you'd like. :)

I'm the reason they have to put "Warning!" labels on everything. Looks like I succeeded again here. :shocked:

I completely understand what you're saying about including the tubing. Hopefully the new rad will take off and you'll be able to justify the additional expense.

Now about the worm gear clamps... I was able to find some small enough that you could put two per fitting on the MCR320 rad sandwhich. However, the max OD they will accommodate is 5/8". I got them at Home Depot. They are labeled "Ideal Stainless Steel Hi-Grade Nickel Alloy SAE SIZE #4, model No. 62604" They will work on Tygon tubing that is 1/2" ID X 5/8" OD. I am using 25 mm fans, too. Scythe SFF21G's to be exact.

Thanks for your response, Gabe, and thanks for the outstanding products, too.

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ok, I will look into it.

Can you stack the MCR320-Res with the MCR320-Stack?

Mine are on the way so I'll give feedback once I have them in hand. I've only ever had an MCR120 in hand before...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pneubmatic

That would be great, but it would only work for guys with 38 mm fans. The SLI fittings are too long even at their shortest to work with 25 mm fans.

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Hmmm... interesting... I figured when Gabe posted this that the diagram, not his text, was the correct number...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gabe

To All:

The schematic below will put the debate to a rest.

To anyone in the "No" crowd, I am asking to please measure your SLI fittings (or whatever 1/4" BSPP fitting you plan on using), from base of the flange, to tip of the fitting, and report here.. if it exceeds 8.3mm (0.32"), it won't work, at least with a 25mm fan.

If using a 38mm, then MAX fitting length from flange base to fitting tip should not exceed 14.8mm (0.58")

http://www.swiftech.com/assets/image...INGS/stack.jpg

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That diagram stated 18.4mm, while the SLI bridge is 18.0mm, expandable to 30.0mm.

I understand that the alignment may not be perfect, but that isn't as large a problem since I don't feel the "sandwich clips" for the fans are necessary if you use an external solution such as zip ties to hold the sandwich together. It would have been nice to see the "Stack Radiator" designed so the screws can simply pass all the way through the finned portion so you can just pass a screw through the entire rad and fans, and into the other rad.

Edit: Also, Gabe... would it be possible to have a "Serial Stack" radiator made ?

What I mean is... the regular MCR if you look directly at it, has a V-shape between the two barbs... if you simply designed the top of the Stacking radiator so one barb is moved to the center of that V, you could stack these in a serial configuration without worrying about fitting compatibility or clearance, or using special fan shrouds to gain enough spacing.