Phenom X4 II 940 in my hand ...

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Originally Posted by charged3800z24

Socket 938 AM3 will have higher HTT 3.1 support, AM2+ is not getting this I don't believe.. I am looking for where I found that info a while back...

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i don't think htt 3.1 is supported yet. i know the 790fx can't support it and the later rd890 doesn't seem to support it. the new phenom cpus will fully use hyper transport 3.0 which is speced to be 2.6ghz although current phenom I cpus have hyper transport speeds of 1.6, 1.8 and 2 ghz. i think i remember reading something a really long time ago that when you put in a phenom II the default nb speed and hypertransport speeds is 2.6ghz since the current chipsets actually support it but the current phenom I cpus cant. so from my understanding that am3 cpus will run the same hyper transport speed no matter which board they are in (am3 or am2+). which is another reason why i can't see why they would have two different sockets when they are the exact same. im not 100% sure about this but i asked my dad about it a few months ago.

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Originally Posted by Daveburt714

That was the point I was trying to make (not very successfully I might add) ;)... From the documents it looks like the DDR3 controller has been there from the very 1st Phenoms. If the AM3 Mobos actually have 940 pin sockets, reguadless of the pins on the chip there is an outside chance that even a Phenom 1 would be able to run DDR3 ram on an AM3 board, and PhII's would be even more likely to... This is just my speculation ofcourse, but it looks like the circuits have been there from the very begining.. :)

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yea i have seen in everest that it says it supports ddr3-800 although there is no way of testing this. im a little confused on the topic because i don't know why they would put a ddr3 controller on the original phenom I. unless they have been planning this from the start so they could phase in a more powerful ddr3 controller later when they move onto am3.

AM3 is supposed to be even more of a performance improvement over am2+, thats all i could get out of them.

In the same token of what is the point of making an am2+ as an end of life product and thats the original question i had asked.

Chew* = Why make an am2+ variant with am3 right around the corner, the shift to a new socket would make it an end of life product and those buying an am2+ will have to start from scratch with AM3. Why not just release AM3 chips if they are backwards compatible.

AMD = Who said that.

Chew* = It's posted all over the internet with various sources.

AMD = Those are just rumours, am2+ phenom II will work fine in AM3 motherboards......

The real question is why bother releasing am2+ phenom 2 at all if am3 Phenom2 version works both ways............

Chew* = If thats the case then what advantages will am3 chips offer.

AMD = AM3 will be even more of a performance improvement.

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Originally Posted by JohnJohn

Hi! just to add some wood to the speculation fire, since AM2+ Phenom II, and AM3 Phenom II both support ddr2 and ddr3, and they can be used in am2+ and am3 boards, then what is the difference betwen them ???? of course appart from the 938-940pins

Maybe higher ht link or what?

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the am2+ supporting ddr3 is a speculation at the moment. but if it is true then i am on the same page as you because then they would be completely identical. i think the facts point towards the fact there isn't a ddr3 controller on it but its not like its very hard to change that.

Hi JohnJohn!
Frankly I'm not sure.There are two certain changes,everything else is unknown.The changes are Vid interface(serial only with AM3) and Thermal Monitoring(TSI in AM3 as opposed to diode in AM2+ version). I still don't know if AM2+ Phenom IIs will indeed work in AM3 boards,there is a chance if AM3 boards are not 938 only(but 940 instead). The very AM2+ Phenoms II shouldn't be any different than AM3 ones in all other aspects(including IMC).

you know we really have no information on am3 which i find quite odd. there is no manufactures advertising am3 boards yet, we have not seen any 100% confirmed am3 cpuz screens yet so this whole am3 thing is up in the air really. which is very funny with the release just creeping up.

Here it is a picture of SoF´s deneb from another thread.

http://s11b.directupload.net/file/d/...6aiced_jpg.htm

Please somebody!!! just tell us how many pins are there!!:hitself:

didnt they show AM2+ and AM3 Phenom II's at the very first AMD demo? you know the one where the first 6.2Ghz LN2 info came from.

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Originally Posted by Voodoo²

Here it is a picture of SoF´s deneb from another thread.

http://s11b.directupload.net/file/d/...6aiced_jpg.htm

Please somebody!!! just tell us how many pins are there!!:hitself:

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appears like 940 but that doesn't really matter we know there are 940 pin am2+ cpus and 938 pin am3 cpus. all it comes down to is if am2+ cpus have a ddr3 memory controller and if so will am3 boards have the holes to support them. because im guessing if the am2+ cpus don't have a ddr3 memory controller on them then am3 boards will not even have holes there and much less connectors so people don't put am2+ cpus into am3 mobos which would be a mess.

It's more like the AM3 is just a scapegoat for low initial NB clocks (did anyone notice?)

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Originally Posted by chew*

Chew* = Why make an am2+ variant with am3 right around the corner, the shift to a new socket would make it an end of life product and those buying an am2+ will have to start from scratch with AM3. Why not just release AM3 chips if they are backwards compatible.

AMD = Who said that.

Chew* = It's posted all over the internet with various sources.

AMD = Those are just rumours, am2+ phenom II will work fine in AM3 motherboards......

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Great info man!! Even though I'm sure I'll have a "Deuce" by then I'm gonna have to try my 9950BE in an AM3 board with DDR3... :D

BTW: Voodoo² , I counted those pins and there are only 938.
J/K, my eyes aren't that frikken good.... :)

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Originally Posted by roofsniper

you know we really have no information on am3 which i find quite odd. there is no manufactures advertising am3 boards yet, we have not seen any 100% confirmed am3 cpuz screens yet so this whole am3 thing is up in the air really. which is very funny with the release just creeping up.

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AMD is focussing all its attention on phenom II and the dragon platform atm, as soon as its released they will be focussing on AM3, thats all i'm at liberty to say at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Daveburt714

Great info man!! Even though I'm sure I'll have a "Deuce" by then I'm gonna have to try my 9950BE in an AM3 board with DDR3... :D

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Those are just rumours, am2+ phenom II will work fine in AM3 motherboards......

Ok, where are the results? All i'm seeing here is blablabla and OT posts

BTW don't shoot the messenger if this isn't true, it could be he misunderstood the question. There was alcohol there.............

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Originally Posted by chew*

Those are just rumours, am2+ phenom II will work fine in AM3 motherboards......

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I understand that, it's all pretty much speculation right now. At least it's only 2nd hand news and from a 1st hand source... That's pretty good right now! ;)

No offense intended...

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Originally Posted by Daveburt714

Great info man!! Even though I'm sure I'll have a "Deuce" by then I'm gonna have to try my 9950BE in an AM3 board with DDR3... :D

BTW: Voodoo² , I counted those pins and there are only 938.
J/K, my eyes aren't that frikken good.... :)

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yea i opened it up in paint and zoomed in 800% and it looked like to me that it was 940 pins. as far as the whole am2+ thing and ddr3 thing goes i still feel that am2+ doesn't have a ddr3 controller and it makes sense, at least to me, but i will ask about it and have a definite answer on it in a few days.

If you guys want i can just make a phone call to reconfirm it, I am in direct contact now via the boston event.

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Originally Posted by chew*

If you guys want i can just make a phone call to reconfirm it, I am in direct contact now via the boston event.

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would be cool if you did. im gonna ask my dad about it as well in a few days too.

Lets see tommorows monday so I'll try around 10am tommorow should be 9am then. Should have an answer for you guys around that time.

I think the two missing pins are a fail safe. If the motherboard detects any processor with pins in that location: its not a AM3 processor. How should it otherwise know if its not a AM3 processor? The socket is the same so you can still place AM2 processors and harm the motherboard/ram/processor.

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Originally Posted by Eson

I think the two missing pins are a fail safe. If the motherboard detects any processor with pins in that location: its not a AM3 processor. How should it otherwise know if its not a AM3 processor? The socket is the same so you can still place AM2 processors and harm the motherboard/ram/processor.

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yea but an easier way to do it would be to not even have holes there altogether so it couldn't physically fit in.

<speculation>

Perhaps, AM2+ will work in AM3 boards with DDR3, but it only does DDR3 1066 and HT3.0 vs the DDR3 1333 and HT3.1 that an AM3 CPU would do?

</speculation>

Chew, if you could try to make a phone call and get more info that would be great :)

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Originally Posted by roofsniper

yea but an easier way to do it would be to not even have holes there altogether so it couldn't physically fit in.

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That is not an fool proof option. If you look at Socket 939 vs. AM2(940). AM2 processors would be destroyed if anyone tried it in 939 motherboards but 939 processors should have done little to no harm in socket AM2. I think AMD learned a lesson there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:So...ion_module.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sockel-939.jpg

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Originally Posted by SparkyJJO

<speculation>

Perhaps, AM2+ will work in AM3 boards with DDR3, but it only does DDR3 1066 and HT3.0 vs the DDR3 1333 and HT3.1 that an AM3 CPU would do?

</speculation>

Chew, if you could try to make a phone call and get more info that would be great :)

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where is everyone getting these ht 3.1 things from? it was my understanding that both am2+ denebs and am3 denebs both had the same hyper transport speeds. and they both use the same chipset as well.

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Originally Posted by Eson

That is not an fool proof option. If you look at Socket 939 vs. AM2(940). AM2 processors would be destroyed if anyone tried it in 939 motherboards but 939 processors should have done little to no harm in socket AM2. I think AMD learned a lesson there.

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yea they are the exact same looking but for am3 they could revise it and add more of what i have circled so it doesn't physicaly fit in. socket 939 went to socket am2 which had more pin contacts so it would fit but socket am3 is lowering the number of pin contacts so they can actually remove the holes altogether.

No i don't think so. The mold for making these sockets probably cost around ~$20000. Waste of money for just two holes that could've stayed id say.
And people would still destroy their AM2/AM2+ processors.

IMHO the best solution is to let the holes be. AM2/AM2+ processors wont be destroyed and the compatible issue can be handled electronically.

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Originally Posted by Eson

No i don't think so. The mold for making these sockets probably cost around ~$20000.

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:up: yea your right i didn't think about that. i say that they shouldn't do anything about it. if people are stupid enough to do stuff like that then most likely they shouldn't have it anyway.

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Originally Posted by roofsniper

where is everyone getting these ht 3.1 things from? it was my understanding that both am2+ denebs and am3 denebs both had the same hyper transport speeds. and they both use the same chipset as well.

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I dunno someone mentioned it somewhere :p: but at least maybe the memory speed thing, I dunno. Like I said, pure, absolute speculation on my part :p:

Says there is a page 3 but keeps kicking me back to page 2, why?

I think because a load of posts were deleted,as well as one whole account(i can't find lo squartotore anymore?). The page number is incorrect,or to put it in other words,you are at the correct page :).

STOP sending PMs ... i have 30 requests now ... today i ´ll start benching ... your result will send you ...

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Originally Posted by OBR

STOP sending PMs ... i have 30 requests now ... today i ´ll start benching ... your result will send you ...

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is this your third post in the thread? :p:

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Originally Posted by roofsniper

yea just pretty funny.

guys heres a picture of what an am3 chip will look like. im hoping that this will be a good enough source since my past ones obviously don't satisfy everyone. http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1376703
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...omputers/2.jpg

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So the Deneb is just missing one pin in the upper right rectangle and the lower left rectangle,as long as the socket am3 doesnt have a 3 pin blank space at the upper right and lower left am2 should slide right in.What I remember is that ddr2 and ddr3 controllers were on ALL K10,but ddr3 disabled on only the 1st gen Agena.AM2+ meaning DDR2/DDR3 capable.IIRC

OBR, Just for the quick hit, Would it be possible for you to tell us this.

With your experience with the chip what would it =? i.e

P2-920 = Q9450/Q9550/I7-920 etc

can you send me benchmark results too pls? :)

specially interested in
superpi 1m
superpi 32m
3dmark06
cinebench r10
winrar

Why should the results be sent on PM? NDA caught you? :D

Am2 can go in AM2 or AM2+
AM2+ can go in AM2, AM2+ or AM3(AM2+ cpus apparently can handle the unified voltage plane on the AM2 mobos and is consequently the only point I can see in them making AM2+ denebs to throw a bone to AM2 mobo owners since all AM3 can go in AM2+)
AM3 can go in AM3 or AM2+(NOT AM2)
AM2 motherboards do NOT have the ability to handle the split voltage plane for the mem and cpu that is required for AM2+ and AM3+ processors.
All K10 and K10.5 mem controllers are DDR2 and DDR3 compatible afaik.

I remember the old 939 cpus supposedly were DDR and DDR2 compatible as well, but I think AMD borked the transition there. AM2 was late and underwhelming as it was, quite a missed opportunity that was.

Hi OBR :), Can you give me bench of Phenom II about:

- Call of Duty 4 & 5 (two of games I like most :))
- Crysis at 1600x1200 resolution.
- Cinebench R10.
- Some bench about the convert multimedia ability.

That's all. Thanks a lot :)

LOL - I have a 920 and 940 and I figure I am under a blanket NDA type (for my company)... but I am using it for my own amusement ATM... it seems ok but Intel and their platforms definitely win in my book...

Don't even ask for a bench as I don't do it per request... only if I choose to do a test study or write up...

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Originally Posted by TheGoat Eater

LOL - I have a 920 and 940 and I figure I am under a blanket NDA type (for my company)... but I am using it for my own amusement ATM... it seems ok but Intel and their platforms definitely win in my book...

Don't even ask for a bench as I don't do it per request... only if I choose to do a test study or write up...

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I too have 50 940s and 920s, I also have a Alien made 030493483 chip that plugs into my brain. But don't ask for anything. Simply put this post is useless. But it is after all fun to brag. :rehab:

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Originally Posted by EvilBlitz

Am2 can go in AM2 or AM2+
AM2+ can go in AM2, AM2+ or AM3(AM2+ cpus apparently can handle the unified voltage plane on the AM2 mobos and is consequently the only point I can see in them making AM2+ denebs to throw a bone to AM2 mobo owners since all AM3 can go in AM2+)
AM3 can go in AM3 or AM2+(NOT AM2)
AM2 motherboards do NOT have the ability to handle the split voltage plane for the mem and cpu that is required for AM2+ and AM3+ processors.
All K10 and K10.5 mem controllers are DDR2 and DDR3 compatible afaik.

I remember the old 939 cpus supposedly were DDR and DDR2 compatible as well, but I think AMD borked the transition there. AM2 was late and underwhelming as it was, quite a missed opportunity that was.

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Sorry man, I believe you are wrong.
AM2+ processors won't work on AM3 boards.
And there are some AM2 (non plus) board that can handle AM3 processors.

It's unclear if Agena supports DDR3 memory, but eve if it does it won't fit into the AM3 socket as it has 2 missing pins.

This thread is useless.
130+ posts of off-topic discussion in a thread that literally has no purpose.

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I WILL NOT publish results public, but thru PMs

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'nuff said. The thread should've ended after the 1st post - or preferably, before the 1st post.

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Originally Posted by OBR

STOP sending PMs ... i have 30 requests now ... today i ´ll start benching ... your result will send you ...

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Hi OBR!

can you send me the bench's results???:p:

THX

I'd like to see how PhII acts with this. (It is a simple benchmark I wrote some weeks ago, to test differences between Core and K8 architectures.).

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Originally Posted by Calmatory

I'd like to see how PhII acts with this. (It is a simple benchmark I wrote some weeks ago, to test differences between Core and K8 architectures.).

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interesting bench, here's my 4GHZ Q6600 out of interest.

5 loops
http://thumbnails6.imagebam.com/2159/55ef0321585446.gif

25 loops
http://thumbnails8.imagebam.com/2159/5f206421585447.gif

Will be interesting to see the results if OBR is able to oblige you.

Perhaps if if you can,

I'll take some Call of Duty 4, Crysis, Enemy Territory Quake Wars, Fallout 3 and Far Cry 2 at 1680x1050 max except crysis at high at 3.8ghz if possible.

Most important thing for me to see is most likely minimum fps.

Whats stopping someone from posting the benchmarks after they are pm'd to you?

Respect for NDA and not getting OBR hammered?
I mean, he's walking the line already by doing this...
If you want a company to continue sending samples you don't violate NDA. If we want OBR to continue to recieve samples, we won't violate NDA any further.

OBR is not under NDA but just the same he dont want to harm there effort by leaking what they dont want leaked.

ANYONE who recieves pre-release hardware by any means is under NDA.
It's IMplicit, not EXplicit.

that being said, OBR can you send me 3dm 06 cpu score?

I think and NDA is a contract and my understanding of it is if you didn't sign/accept the contract you can't be held to it. Especially if someone sent you the benchmarks and you posted them, rather than you actually owning the hardware. Then again what do I know, all I do know is I want to see some solid benchmarks for Phenom 2. Looks like a solid CPU.

There is no 'signing' or whatnot. It's not as if AMD goes 'oh drat because you got a cpu from someone who got a cpu from someone who got it from us there's nothing we can do about it' . It is not a retail cpu and thus was released under certain stipulations and is still owned by AMD.

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Originally Posted by Slovnaft

ANYONE who recieves pre-release hardware by any means is under NDA.
It's IMplicit, not EXplicit.

that being said, OBR can you send me 3dm 06 cpu score?

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Only in fantasy land. In the real world, NDAs are contractual agreements which require formal documentation to be effective. If he received the chip by alternative means, it may be a breach of whoever provided it's contract but the recipient is under no legal obligation to uphold the NDA.

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Originally Posted by Particle

Only in fantasy land. In the real world, NDAs are contractual agreements which require formal documentation to be effective. If he received the chip by alternative means, it may be a breach of whoever provided it's contract but the recipient is under no legal obligation to uphold the NDA.

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well exactly my point. someone is accountable and will be held so. Somewhere there was an illegitimate transfer of ownership and so AMD still has rights to control over results produced. If it's an ES cpu it's the original recipient, if it's a retail cpu, then it's the retailer. Either way AMD can yank results of the nets.

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Originally Posted by EvilBlitz

Am2 can go in AM2 or AM2+
AM2+ can go in AM2, AM2+ or AM3(AM2+ cpus apparently can handle the unified voltage plane on the AM2 mobos and is consequently the only point I can see in them making AM2+ denebs to throw a bone to AM2 mobo owners since all AM3 can go in AM2+)
AM3 can go in AM3 or AM2+(NOT AM2)
AM2 motherboards do NOT have the ability to handle the split voltage plane for the mem and cpu that is required for AM2+ and AM3+ processors.
All K10 and K10.5 mem controllers are DDR2 and DDR3 compatible afaik.

I remember the old 939 cpus supposedly were DDR and DDR2 compatible as well, but I think AMD borked the transition there. AM2 was late and underwhelming as it was, quite a missed opportunity that was.

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Originally Posted by doompc

Sorry man, I believe you are wrong.
AM2+ processors won't work on AM3 boards.
And there are some AM2 (non plus) board that can handle AM3 processors.

It's unclear if Agena supports DDR3 memory, but eve if it does it won't fit into the AM3 socket as it has 2 missing pins.

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+1 you hit it right on the spot. am3 will work in am2. the am2+ going into am3 and agena having a ddr3 controller are both speculation at this point.

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Originally Posted by KELL5

interesting bench, here's my 4GHZ Q6600 out of interest.

Will be interesting to see the results if OBR is able to oblige you.

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Yes, would be interesting especially with 4 GHz (Though the bench is quite a bit faster on Intel architectures. Like SuperPI, if not even more.).

The bench is single threaded so everyone should send me results, just for the sake of IPC comparison. E.g. @ 3 GHz and @ 3.6 GHz if possible. 4 GHz is fine aswell though. But yeah, it is quite useless, it shouldn't be used for conclusions - too misleading.

phenom 9600 with AOD 2.1.5. did it always say this in the old versions?

nope, version 2.1.2 shows the same thing for my 9500

internal cache is ddr-3 on phenoms. just doesnt have ddr-3 memory controller activated. its allways been there. notice it says "internal"



http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=211848

thre is some PH-II benchmarks i posted earlier from [H] forum

the op there is has been waiting 3 days for activation on this forum. they said they have not recieved the activation email.
if a mod sees this please pm table21 or send there activation email. TY

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Originally Posted by SkullCracka

internal cache is ddr-3 on phenoms. just doesnt have ddr-3 memory controller activated. its allways been there. notice it says "internal"



http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=211848

thre is some PH-II benchmarks i posted earlier from [H] forum

the op there is has been waiting 3 days for activation on this forum. they said they have not recieved the activation email.
if a mod sees this please pm table21 or send there activation email. TY

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that make it sounds like the L3 cache, but l3 cache is much fast the ddr3 main memory and 2600mhz ddr3 would be a record.

anyways Mine says. internal ddr2 ddr3 memory controller

Internal cache obviously can't have anything to do with DDR3 or any DRAM either, since the internal CPU cache is SRAM, which is more expensive but a lot faster than same amount of DRAM would be. SRAM latencies are around one fifth of those of DRAM(though this depends on a lot of factors, first being clock frequency). So, quite a bit faster actually. ;)

This thread is a load of crap.
What is the difference anyways, between PMing everyone the results or putting the results in this thread?
Someone wants attention.

:chicken::rofl:

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Originally Posted by Miss Banana

This thread is a load of crap.
What is the difference anyways, between PMing everyone the results or putting the results in this thread?
Someone wants attention.

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Seems to be the trend lately.

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Originally Posted by Miss Banana

This thread is a load of crap.
What is the difference anyways, between PMing everyone the results or putting the results in this thread?
Someone wants attention.

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I agree, if he's PM'd one person with a result it's the same as breaking NDA by telling hundreds.

30ppl in a thread ask for results......30 ppl get PM's....30 ppl know the result.

If you come to this thread and DON'T ask for a PM then you don't get to know the results so no NDA is breached. It was just breached 30times by PM'ing results to 30 ppl, lol

Makes total sense.

Still, I look forward to seeing any public results when they come.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miss Banana

This thread is a load of crap.
What is the difference anyways, between PMing everyone the results or putting the results in this thread?
Someone wants attention.

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Agreed, no surprise tho' as the guy has been doing this countless times, what's surprising is that some people still expect him to come out with something interesting. Even if he posted something i would not consider his results, he couldn't get more than 3 GHz out of his retail Intel CPUs so he labeled them bad overclockers just because he couldn't even figure he was using faulty ram sticks :ROTF::rofl:

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Originally Posted by LowRun

Agreed, no surprise tho' as the guy has been doing this countless times, what's surprising is that some people still expect him to come out with something interesting.

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Yeah, remember OBR's HD4850 fiasco? He got everybody excited saying he got one before launch, he said he'll make a review, then he didn't post any result.. It all turned into a soap opera lol. Funny how anybody trusts him anymore... :shakes:

if all you guys don't like him then why did you bother posting in this thread?

I assume we all went em0 this month:confused:

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Originally Posted by roofsniper

if all you guys don't like him then why did you bother posting in this thread?

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Yeah, why wouldn't we let the guy screw us like he always did one more time and shut the :bananal: up about it :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miss Banana

This thread is a load of crap.
What is the difference anyways, between PMing everyone the results or putting the results in this thread?
Someone wants attention.

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We have Bingo:yepp: OBR is attention seeker

then this thread should be closed.

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Originally Posted by OBR

I ... you can post wishes for benchmarks ...

My usual bench setup software:

http://pctuning.tyden.cz/ilustrace3/...ocenta_big.png

If you have special request, post here ....

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Could you update this chart and add two columns. Next to the Phenom 2600 results add a column with the Phenom I normalized to 3 GHz, and the second column a Phenom II at 3 GHz (I realize it will be empty until the NDA expires). This will give a good comparison of the performance increase in the new cpu's.

I think this chart is very interesting from two standpoints. You can see a consistent pattern. For applications in which the Phenom performs poorly with respect to the QX9650 quad or the core i7 920, the increase in performance seems to be more of a function of the large cache available. For other applications, the Phenom 2600 either wins or is very close, despite being at a lower speed. I think we will see a rapid convergence of scores when the larger cache Phenom II's become available. I am beginning to think that most of the original Phenom's problems have been that it has too small an L3 cache for four cores and poor cache latency.

Of course I could be wrong...it seems to happen a lot :rofl:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b2...o/LiarLiar.jpg

:rofl:

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Originally Posted by Oliverda

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b2...o/LiarLiar.jpg

:rofl:

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:ROTF:
Nice one my hungarian neighbour :up:

I think either OBR posts some results or a mod locks this thread.