Retail AMD Phenom II X4 (Deneb) OC spotted

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Originally Posted by accord99

So where does the power used go? Conservation of energy dictates it must go somewhere.

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Im waiting for that answer too. Seems we have to rewrite the laws of physics soon.

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Originally Posted by accord99

So where does the power used go? Conservation of energy dictates it must go somewhere.

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It doesnt "go" anywhere. It stays within the circuit. The heat that people are seeing is mostly related to electromigration, ie current jumping from more than one level/circuit of the chip which causes resistance and that resistance is turned into heat

That is why i7s are not too bad at lower frequencies but get RED hot at higher ones. Its the same thing that got Netburst into trouble a couple years ago

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Originally Posted by Sentential

It doesnt "go" anywhere. It stays within the circuit. The heat that people are seeing is mostly related to electromigration, ie current jumping from more than one level/circuit of the chip which causes resistance and that resistance is turned into heat

That is why i7s are not too bad at lower frequencies but get RED hot at higher ones. Its the same thing that got Netburst into trouble a couple years ago

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You didnt answer the question. You simply sprew out jibberish.

And electromigration would result in radiation and material degeneration. It would actually reduce heat. Electromigration ionizes and physically moves particles out of circuits. Hence lost of kinetic energy instead of heat. And then learn the law of conservation of energy.

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In physics, the law of conservation of energy states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant. A consequence of this law is that energy cannot be created or destroyed. The only thing that can happen with energy in an isolated system is that it can change form, that is to say for instance kinetic energy can become thermal energy. Another consequence of this law is that perpetual motion machines can only work if they deliver no energy to their surroundings, and that devices that produce more energy than is put into them are impossible.

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The power cant stay within the circuit. You keep on pumping power in. A CPU is not some battery you can charge.

In short. SOI aint above the law.

Yes, i7 are hot chips, no doubt about it. There are people reporting that all over the dman web, so there's really no point in trying to convince people otherwise. I doubt they're hot enough to burn a house down, but then again, look what happened with Xbox 360!

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Originally Posted by flippin_waffles

Yes, i7 are hot chips, no doubt about it. There are people reporting that all over the dman web, so there's really no point in trying to convince people otherwise. I doubt they're hot enough to burn a house down, but then again, look what happened with Xbox 360!

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45m, Core 2s was also so hot :rofl:

OK lets get this clear:
100W = 100W, Voltage = Voltage
Yes, if you pump in 100W in any resistor the energy must go somewhere => heat, make it easy and say 100W heat.

Explanation why Deneb might run cooler then Nehalem:
Power formula is: W=(U^2)/R
But what most people seem the forget is that Power is also U*I. And that Resistance is not constant.
The Resistance in Nehalem surely differs from Deneb. But they also draw different amount of ampere.
I don't know the voltage figures for Nehalem but its less then Deneb 1.35V i hear.
So its very wrong to think that I and R are same for both processors and blindly look at voltages and draw the conclusion that Nehalem is cooler by default.

So in an example: W=U*I.
Deneb: 1.35V*80A = 108W
Nehalem: 1.2V* 100A = 120W
Deneb is cooler in this example.

An other example, same voltages: W=(U^2)/R. R=constant=1ohm.
(1.35^2)/1 = 1.82W
(1.20^2)/1 = 1.44W
Nehalem is cooler in this example.

A CPU cannot just absorb electricity and keep it in the circuit. Almost every bit of electricity a CPU uses must be converted to heat, because they do not any kind of physical work. A CPU is basically a giant resistive heater.

If a CPU doesn't draw a lot of power, but get hot, and heats up real quick under an increased heat load (ie. overclocking), then that points to an issue that the die surface physically can't remove heat fast enough from the transistors (like the old Athlon Thoroughbred A vs B), or the heatspreader or TIM is of a sub-par material not able to transfer heat well enough.

If a CPU has a high power draw, but stays relatively cool, then it points to the die being able to remove heat faster from the transistors, having a better TIM and heatspreader material.

Or the most likely cause for both: Software temperature readings of the CPU are complete crap and worthless.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/i...dale/pcons.png
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/i...le/pcons-2.png

Its all about the sensors ;)

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As we have expected, CPUs on 45nm core are overall cooler than their predecessors on Core micro-architecture. However, the temperature different under 100% workload makes only 4-5 degrees. The thing is that Wolfdale processor core is smaller and features higher transistor density within a semiconductor die, which makes it a little harder for the heat flow to dissipate properly. That is why Wolfdale and Conroe heat up almost identically in idle mode. As for the relatively low temperature of AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+, with twice as high TDP as that of Core 2 Duo actually, it can be explained by the not very best location of the on-die thermal sensor that is situated quite far from the hottest spots of the processor’s semiconductor die.

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Originally Posted by Shintai

You didnt answer the question. You simply sprew out jibberish.

And electromigration would result in radiation and material degeneration. It would actually reduce heat. Electromigration ionizes and physically moves particles out of circuits. Hence lost of kinetic energy instead of heat. And then learn the law of conservation of energy.



The power cant stay within the circuit. You keep on pumping power in. A CPU is not some battery you can charge.

In short. SOI aint above the law.

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That is not what I said and yes I did anwser your question. The heat is generated by resistance. Resistance which SOI helps to alleviate now if you want to go on about how nice Intel is, fine. i7 is a great CPU no one disputes that but SOI does reduce TDP go look it up if you dont believe me.

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Originally Posted by Shintai

45m, Core 2s was also so hot :rofl:

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Actually, ya they were. Not everyone lives in Denmark

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Originally Posted by [XC] Lead Head

A CPU cannot just absorb electricity and keep it in the circuit. Almost every bit of electricity a CPU uses must be converted to heat, because they do not any kind of physical work. A CPU is basically a giant resistive heater.

If a CPU doesn't draw a lot of power, but get hot, and heats up real quick under an increased heat load (ie. overclocking), then that points to an issue that the die surface physically can't remove heat fast enough from the transistors (like the old Athlon Thoroughbred A vs B), or the heatspreader or TIM is of a sub-par material not able to transfer heat well enough.

If a CPU has a high power draw, but stays relatively cool, then it points to the die being able to remove heat faster from the transistors, having a better TIM and heatspreader material.

Or the most likely cause for both: Software temperature readings of the CPU are complete crap and worthless.

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By that arguement either all the money AMD and Intel spent on SOI was worthless or whomever packages Intel's processors needs to be fired because of the dozens cpus I have owned of both AMD and Intel chips and by far since AMD went SOI their chips have been noticablly cooler running.

As to Shintai's chart there is no way that info can be correct as the Intel chips are less than half of their rated TDP with AMD 2x above their. Bias? I think so.

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Originally Posted by Shintai

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/i...dale/pcons.png
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/i...le/pcons-2.png

Its all about the sensors ;)

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Athlon 64 != Deneb.

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Originally Posted by Sentential

That is not what I said and yes I did anwser your question. The heat is generated by resistance. Resistance which SOI helps to alleviate now if you want to go on about how nice Intel is, fine. i7 is a great CPU no one disputes that but SOI does reduce TDP go look it up if you dont believe me.



Actually, ya they were. Not everyone lives in Denmark

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No you didn't. You said some crap about the power stays in the circuit. If you USE LESS power you PUT OUT LESS heat. If you have a CPU that uses more power then another, then it also puts out more heat. If it runs cooler according to its ondie sensor, that means the sensor is not near the hottest part of the core, or the heat transferring abilities of the chip is better. SOI does not magically make heat disappear.

@Eson, HOW are they noticeably cooler running!? Have you milled a channel right into the IHS of both AMD and Intel CPUs, put a thermocouple in it, and used the exact same cooling solution on both CPUs, with the exact same ambient, while comparing power using of the CPU directly with a calibrated power meter? Or are you talking about what temp coretemp gave you, without paying attention to the actual power the CPU draws? SOI reduces power usage, which in turn reduces heat output. If a non-soi CPU draws less power then an SOI CPU, the SOI CPU is GOING to put more heat. That is fact.

Anyone who trusts software readings of a CPU to have any kind of accuracy is a fool.

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Originally Posted by Sentential

That is not what I said and yes I did anwser your question. The heat is generated by resistance. Resistance which SOI helps to alleviate now if you want to go on about how nice Intel is, fine. i7 is a great CPU no one disputes that but SOI does reduce TDP go look it up if you dont believe me.



Actually, ya they were. Not everyone lives in Denmark



By that arguement either all the money AMD and Intel spent on SOI was worthless or whomever packages Intel's processors needs to be fired because I have owned both AMD and Intel chips and by far since AMD went SOI their chips have been noticablly cooler running.

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I guess the good results wit 45nm node are more due to Immersion Lithography technology along with overall well constructed process rather than the SOI.
SOI helps to decrease the power draw of the circuit, that is e.g:

Bulk 130W
SOI: 105W
(It does not mean that 130W SOI would generate less heat than 130W Bulk would!)

The only way to determine how "hot" a chip runs is to measure the wattage it draws from the motherboard. More watts translates to more heat.

If the practical max. power draw of PhII is 80W and the TDP is 125W(meaning that the stock cooler is rated for handling loads up to 125W), I'd understand how the PhII indeed "runs cool" - due to good stock cooler and "low" power draw.

It all sums to the power the CPU draws from the motherboard. If it draws 125W then it will run hot no matter what. If it will draw less, then it really might run cool.

Just a reminder: TDP rating is for cooler manufacturers mostly and does not really have anything to do with actual power draw of the chip - other than the fact that usually the power draw is more or less near the TDP.

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Originally Posted by Shintai

I think some people need a wakeup call regarding temperatures. There is a reason 3Ghz Phenom is 125W TDP, or even 95W if you want for the 2.8Ghz AM3 version.

AMD uses an uncalibrated sensor. Intel uses a calibrated one inside the hottest part of the core(s). Plus there is the tjmax etc values. Do I even have to tell that story? Its only recently we got actual track on 45nm Core 2s.

For some odd reason the power consumption=heat have been lost somewhere for a bunch of people. Lets be honest here. If CPU A uses 100W and CPU B uses 100W. Then 1 CPU wont be 60C and the other one 30C unless their cooling solution is pretty different. Its only different in the illusion.

Here is a cute example. 3 programs. 3 different temperatures.

http://download.intel.com/design/pro...nex/320837.pdf

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Thats something which caught my eyes since i know that C2D uses DTS to measure the temps, with Ci7 it even more interesstening, since there are far more DTS then they where in C2D. Does PII still relay on the Analouge probes to measure the temp?

I cant find anything about that, but if they use another method you really cant compare PII and C2D or Ci7 tempreature wise.

If i go with the sensore that says cpu the temp is somewhere ~ 57°C (Core temps are ~74°C under full load crunching wcg/seti with 8 threads :) )

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Originally Posted by [XC] Lead Head

@Eson, HOW are they noticeably cooler running!? Have you milled a channel right into the IHS of both AMD and Intel CPUs, put a thermocouple in it, and used the exact same cooling solution on both CPUs, with the exact same ambient, while comparing power using of the CPU directly with a calibrated power meter? Or are you talking about what temp coretemp gave you, without paying attention to the actual power the CPU draws? SOI reduces power usage, which in turn reduces heat output. If a non-soi CPU draws less power then an SOI CPU, the SOI CPU is GOING to put more heat. That is fact.

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Cooler as in less power. I don't think i can make myself much clearer.

yeah 3.4 at idle and only 25 watts at load that's why the 775 bioard have 12 phase power on the board then and digital too. >_>...

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Originally Posted by Sentential

SOI by its design was made to combat heat related leakage hence Phenom runs cooler than Intel chips as a whole while power draw remained higher.

http://engineering.dartmouth.edu/mic.../194sem_1.html

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So was HKMG. :p:

both are techniques to adress different leakage, SOI = channle leak HKMG=gate leak.

It depends where you net the bigger savings, i doubt intel skiped soi only because it was made by ibm.

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Originally Posted by demonkevy666

yeah 3.4 at idle and only 25 watts at load that's why the 775 bioard have 12 phase power on the board then and digital too. >_>...

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It's because such features sell. And the power consumption of 45nm C2Ds and C2Qs are that good.

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Originally Posted by demonkevy666

yeah 3.4 at idle and only 25 watts at load that's why the 775 bioard have 12 phase power on the board then and digital too. >_>...

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lol phases mean jack:banana::banana::banana::banana:... most of that is marketing... why do you thing the smackover only has 6 phases, hell msi even only has 5. :p

All that phase madness was a e-peen contest between gigabyte and asus who got the most phases. :ROTF:

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

lol phases mean jack:banana::banana::banana::banana:... most of that is marketing... why do you thing the smackover only has 6 phases, hell msi even only has 5. :p

All that phase madness was a e-peen contest between gigabyte and asus who got the most phases. :ROTF:

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:up:

thats to reduce ripple and help stablility how much different is 6 vs 16 is anyone's guess

its like 4 times oversampling vs 16 times oversampling back in the early CD player days

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Originally Posted by iboomalot

thats to reduce ripple and help stablility how much different is 6 vs 16 is anyone's guess

its like 4 times oversampling vs 16 times oversampling back in the early CD player days

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It depends on far more then only the number of phases, what ICs they use etc.
A 5 phase circuit with good components can be deliver the same quallity as a 16 phase circuit with run of the mill components

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Originally Posted by Calmatory

The only way to determine how "hot" a chip runs is to measure the wattage it draws from the motherboard. More watts translates to more heat.

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That is correct ... Don't forget the cosinus of the phase change between the Voltage and the Amps ...
Most of the people think that doing Amps x Volts is enough to figurout the watts, it is actually not accurate, CPU can be inductive or capacitive. :up:

The rest of the thread is "voodoo" science ... :)
I propose to add the age of the bus driver in the equation ... lol !

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Originally Posted by flippin_waffles

Yes, i7 are hot chips, no doubt about it. There are people reporting that all over the dman web, so there's really no point in trying to convince people otherwise. I doubt they're hot enough to burn a house down, but then again, look what happened with Xbox 360!

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Core i7 was optimized to give you the best performance for its TDP. It, by design used as much head room as it can gets. You will see that to get to the level of performance of Core i7 965, you ll need to overclock the Phenom II over 5Ghz ... look at the power of the Phenom II then ...
I am not even talking to the idle power of the Phenom II, I think you ll get a surprise on who is the hotter chip.

Inside its TDP, Core i7 is unbeatable, it was design for this. Using 130Watts is what it was design for. Try to beat it in 130Watts with any other CPU.

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Originally Posted by Drwho?

Core i7 was optimized to give you the best performance for its TDP. It, by design used as much head room as it can gets. You will see that to get to the level of performance of Core i7 965, you ll need to overclock the Phenom II over 5Ghz ... look at the power of the Phenom II then ...
I am not even talking to the idle power of the Phenom II, I think you ll get a surprise on who is the hotter chip.

Inside its TDP, Core i7 is unbeatable, it was design for this. Using 130Watts is what it was design for. Try to beat it in 130Watts with any other CPU.

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No one is talking about performance, we're talking about power used and heat generated. Personally I don't give a :banana::banana::banana::banana: what the Core i7 965 is capable of, I just want a CPU that can clock decently and not perform a Chernobyl in my neighbourhood.

As soon as the i7 965 isn't a $1000+ chip and can work in socket 775 (just as PHII works backwards...) I'll be impressed. :shocked:

Until then it's another new platform to upgrade to and another chip you get the privilege of paying an extra $500 to unlock the multiplier.

yay finally someone defending defending the deneb thread's...that everyone has to try and through intel and i7 is better into.

Why dear jesus, havn't you smote these people yet?

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Originally Posted by Sly Fox

As soon as the i7 965 isn't a $1000+ chip and can work in socket 775 (just as PHII works backwards...) I'll be impressed. :shocked:

Until then it's another new platform to upgrade to and another chip you get the privilege of paying an extra $500 to unlock the multiplier.

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I know, that sucks. :down:

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Originally Posted by Caveman787

yay finally someone defending defending the deneb thread's...that everyone has to try and through intel and i7 is better into.

Why dear jesus, havn't you smote these people yet?

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Please come again. :)

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Originally Posted by Zucker2k

I know, that sucks. :down:

Please come again. :)

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You're fighting a loosing battle against folks who think Intel is always wrong or never is right, never did anything good or worthwhile, lol, as was said they suck. You can't get anywhere with folks like that? No matter how RIGHT YOU ARE:up:

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Originally Posted by ownage

That is not what he says, that is what you make of it. I don't see anything wrong with his statement.
And change your sig man, it hurts my eyes.

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SIG Stays! Buy new Eyes!:p::rofl:

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Originally Posted by Brother Esau

SIG Stays! Buy new Eyes!:p::rofl:

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:rofl: What's up with that though? Is that some kinda therapy? :ROTF::rofl:

Damn, that's the worst sig I've ever seen. Wastes a lot of screen real estate (leaving little space for good posts), and as annoying as those flash ads you see everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Sly Fox

As soon as the i7 965 isn't a $1000+ chip and can work in socket 775 (just as PHII works backwards...) I'll be impressed. :shocked:

Until then it's another new platform to upgrade to and another chip you get the privilege of paying an extra $500 to unlock the multiplier.

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"When I looked at Putin's eyes I saw 3 letters: K G B" ... (Senator McCain, September 2008) :rofl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAVlaIJWP-Q lol :rofl:

С Рождеством!
Francois

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Originally Posted by Zucker2k

:rofl: What's up with that though? Is that some kinda therapy? :ROTF::rofl:

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L.S.D Therapy........It's All The Rage! :D

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Originally Posted by IvanAndreevich

Damn, that's the worst sig I've ever seen. Wastes a lot of screen real estate (leaving little space for good posts), and as annoying as those flash ads you see everywhere.

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I'm Special ....Now stop jamming my action :eek:

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Originally Posted by Omastar

Sweet vengeance.

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I agree...only after what 2 years? lols

Anyone have an idea if Deneb IHS' is soldered?
I gather Agena is soldered, am I correct?

.
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i7 vs PII; all I say is "6GHz"...
:ROTF:

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Originally Posted by largon

=

i7 vs PII; all I say is "6GHz"...
:ROTF:

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We have to wait, What if deneb at 6ghz on ln2 only = i7-920 at4.2ghz air cooled? Not saying this is the case but claiming any kind of victory before we know is just plan silly. No?

I was kinda referring to someone rather than something with "6GHz".

I have a few silly question! Why compare the P2 with i7? I7 platform have better MB section (more SATA, more USB, SLI and CF fogether …). I7 is more professional platform, and it is not only for games, for the good sake i7 is made for the render software and app, right? For games any OC CPU higher than 3.8GHz (C2D, i7, p2) is good! Why Q9550 is not comparable? Why Q9450 is not comparable?

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Originally Posted by Spacemaster

I have a few silly question! Why compare the P2 with i7? I7 platform have better MB section (more SATA, more USB, SLI and CF fogether …). I7 is more professional platform, and it is not only for games, for the good sake i7 is made for the render software and app, right? For games any OC CPU higher than 3.8GHz (C2D, i7, p2) is good! Why Q9550 is not comparable? Why Q9450 is not comparable?

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Cause they have the "same name" so they must be comparable. :p:

If we go with the "leaked marketing" slides, AMD themself compares PII with C2D (45nm). Only the hardcore amd fanboys want to compare PII with i7. (yeah flame me for that but thats what i have seen so far :yepp: )

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Originally Posted by Drwho?

I am not even talking to the idle power of the Phenom II, I think you ll get a surprise on who is the hotter chip.

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That's quite interesting, because I've noticed something pretty much different with my own eyes. New C&Q in these CPU's works really well, so I have no idea what are you talking about ;) Maybe about PII with turned off C&Q vs i7 with turned on EIST? :P

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Originally Posted by bedlamite

That's quite interesting, because I've noticed something pretty much different with my own eyes. New C&Q in these CPU's works really well, so I have no idea what are you talking about ;) Maybe about PII with turned off C&Q vs i7 with turned on EIST? :P

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Well hes right, if you compare cpu/cpu only ci7 will win cause i7 needs in idle even less then then C2D. :yepp:

Platform is another thing, since most Ci7 are stuffed with feature and those need power (not to mention tripple channle, 8 layer etc.).
But there are even difference between X58 boards themself, just compare the smackover board with a Asus P6T, the Smackover needs 10W less with the same cpu. :yepp:

Im sure the more feature packed PII boards will consume more then those with less features. When phenom hits retail and is a good performer, i bet we will see some of this "über" boards poping up from asus/gigayte/foxconn/Msi. They will come with lots of addones and features and they will also eat power, just like on the intel platform. :p:

If people want desktop idle and load power consumption values. Wait till i5 this summer without the X58 PCIe switch northbridge. And ofcourse less features like no SAS etc, and less phases for heavy OCers. Extra phases also use more power for those not knowing it. And no, its not needed to run an i7, C2D, C2Q etc. They could be run at 2 etc instead of 16+2.

Guys, just wait. No use to argue now:)

Probly Deneb X4 940 will be a starting point of a new thing...Just like Yonah T2600 (after FX 60 cold bug debacle)...http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/...highlight=dumo

Can't wait for NO cold bugged AMD chip....Been waiting for 3 years:(

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

Cause they have the "same name" so they must be comparable. :p:

If we go with the "leaked marketing" slides, AMD themself compares PII with C2D (45nm). Only the hardcore amd fanboys want to compare PII with i7. (yeah flame me for that but thats what i have seen so far :yepp: )

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But that is not ok! :mad:

AMD is doing great job with new P2 CPUs, and with prices that they offering, I think that costumers will be pleased. But comparision with i7 is too silly. Results of the 45nm C2Q is comparable, that is for shore ;)

I spot this link here

http://www.ocxtreme.org/forumenus/showthread.php?t=4302

Let see some test of this link

1. Super pi 1m - C2Q is better
2. Super pi 32m - C2Q is better
3. Cinbench R10 (this is interesting)
AMD P2 at 3000 MHz - 9754
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 at 2664 MHz - 10471
Intel Core i7 940 at 2930 MHz (HT on) - 13792
4. Wprime 32m
AMD P2 at 3000 MHz - 13,437
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450, Q9550 ... can not find results
Intel Core i7 940 at 2930 MHZ - 8,46
5. Wprime 1024m
... i7 - 264,475
AMD p2 - 428,625 ...

Please can some one find rest of the results ( Q9550 and Q9450 at default clock ;) )

The point is that i7 can not compare with AMD P2 it is not same platform ...

Those have to be fake....I don't see any possible way the deneb can be as slow as or slower then agena.

Because if it takes a 3.0 deneb to lose to a 2.66 yorkie then obviously there's something wrong.

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Originally Posted by Caveman787

Those have to be fake....I don't see any possible way the deneb can be as slow as or slower then agena.

Because if it takes a 3.0 deneb to lose to a 2.66 yorkie then obviously there's something wrong.

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No it is not fake :shakes: http://www.techpowerup.com/?79688

Cinbench 10R
http://my.ocworkbench.com/2008/asroc...ebench10-9.htm

this is more interesting
http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...readid=2260139

Spacemaster,
You forgot to use your sarcasm detector.

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Originally Posted by Spacemaster

No it is not fake :shakes:

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I think theres something wrong with that scores, just look at the 3dmark 06, a P9950 @ 3,8ghz scores ~5k cpu marks... deneb on 4ghz only scores 4,5K?

I don't believe that. :yepp:

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Originally Posted by largon

Spacemaster,
You forgot to use your sarcasm detector.

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Just trying to find true...

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

I think theres something wrong with that scores, just look at the 3dmark 06, a P9950 @ 3,8ghz scores ~5k cpu marks... deneb on 4ghz only scores 4,5K?

I don't believe that. :yepp:

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4.5K is with 3GHz ;)
http://www.techpowerup.com/img/08-12-23/31i.png

5.9K is with 4GHz
http://www.breakthelimit.net/coolice...3d06-17754.PNG

wobs sry looked at the wrong screens :p:

well its near my former QX9650 @ 3,5ghz it scored 5,5K on 3dm06. (thought i t was not a good run, there are CPUS on orb that get with 3,5ghz 5,6k. ;) )

4ghz C2D scores ~6,1-6,2k in 3dm06

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

wobs sry looked at the wrong screens :p:

well its near my former QX9650 @ 3,5ghz it scored 5,5K on 3dm06. (thought i t was not a good run, there are CPUS on orb that get with 3,5ghz 5,6k. ;) )

4ghz C2D scores ~6,1-6,2k in 3dm06

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For the record, I do not hate AMD, and I am not Intel fan! :)
AMD P2 is more AMD vs AMD product, and if we must compare it with Intel, I think that C2Q CPUs is more for that job. Is AMD P2 better then Intel C2Q? I think it is in some benchmark, and in some benchmark C2Q is better, but i7 and render tests is just some other story…

Not too bad result, Yorkfield scores like ~6000 at 445x9 and ~6400 at 500x8 with Win XP when looking at the ORB. Looks like it's only ~5% behind in 3DMark06 clock for clock. That's like 4.2GHz vs 4.0GHz and looks like PII can surpass Q9450 and Q9550 typical max overclocks rather easily making them about as fast.

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Originally Posted by Spacemaster

For the record, I do not hate AMD, and I am not Intel fan! :)

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Neither is me, im only a fan of performance (i dont really care for the price :D ). :up:

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

You're fighting a loosing battle against folks who think Intel is always wrong or never is right, never did anything good or worthwhile, lol, as was said they suck. You can't get anywhere with folks like that? No matter how RIGHT YOU ARE:up:

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Oh damn, grow up:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Drwho?

"When I looked at Putin's eyes I saw 3 letters: K G B" ... (Senator McCain, September 2008) :rofl:

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Oh dear, the phailure hurts my head.

I vote throw New Rock Boots at McCain's head:cool:

For some reason Cinebench 32bit is treating Phenom 1/2s pretty poorly.

At 64-bit current data (Phenom Is in reviews, Phenom 2 - check iocedmyself's post on Cinebench @ 3.2) shows the P-I at <5% difference between kentsfield, Phenom II unquantifiable, but probably the same (either faster or slower by a bit depending on your relative QX9770 setup)


3DMark has even more headroom in terms of NB clocks, memory (timings and bandwidth). Most "nice" penryn scores I presume are DDR3.

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Originally Posted by Spacemaster

No it is not fake :shakes: http://www.techpowerup.com/?79688

Cinbench 10R
http://my.ocworkbench.com/2008/asroc...ebench10-9.htm

this is more interesting
http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...readid=2260139

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Something is seriously wrong with that Cinebench score.
http://www.techspot.com/review/93-am...ion/page2.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD

Not too bad result, Yorkfield scores like ~6000 at 445x9 and ~6400 at 500x8 with Win XP when looking at the ORB. Looks like it's only ~5% behind in 3DMark06 clock for clock. That's like 4.2GHz vs 4.0GHz and looks like PII can surpass Q9450 and Q9550 typical max overclocks rather easily making them about as fast.

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So CPU score with AMD P2 is beter than C2Q at same clock, any comparation pic?

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Originally Posted by freeloader

Something is seriously wrong with that Cinebench score.
http://www.techspot.com/review/93-am...ion/page2.html

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At techshop you can see the vista 64bit results ;) and those result above are made at 32bit OS.

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Originally Posted by Spacemaster

So CPU score with AMD P2 is beter than C2Q at same clock, any comparation pic?

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Didn't get what I said? Phenom II looks to be about 5% slower clock for clock in 3DMark06 CPU score. Just lookup the ORB for Yorkfield @ 3GHz or 4GHz scores man. Of course it depends what CPU multi is used a bit, with 9x multi the difference is like only 2~3% and at 8x multi 7~8% in favor for Intel Core 2 Quad (45nm) at 4GHz. This is just one PII 06 score result though so we don't know how other mobo/ram/configs will score like though, could be easily 100 - 300 points difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spacemaster

So CPU score with AMD P2 is beter than C2Q at same clock, any comparation pic?

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HERE on ORB is the 3DMARK06 for a Q9550 at 4.0Ghz = 5776 verses 5846 for Phenom II 940 @ 4.0 Ghz seen HERE. :D

Just did a quick run with my Q9550 @ 4Ghz (8.5 x 471): Score = 6008

http://service.futuremark.com/result...&resultType=14

PII 940 at 5846 is DDR400 cas 5.
What's yours?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD

Didn't get what I said? Phenom II looks to be about 5% slower clock for clock in 3DMark06 CPU score. Just lookup the ORB for Yorkfield @ 3GHz or 4GHz scores man. Of course it depends what CPU multi is used a bit, with 9x multi the difference is like only 2~3% and at 8x multi 7~8% in favor for Intel Core 2 Quad (45nm) at 4GHz. This is just one PII 06 score result though so we don't know how other mobo/ram/configs will score like though, could be easily 100 - 300 points difference.

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Thanks for answer :)! I think that Q9550 will be equivalent with AMD P2 940 in 60-90% applications, but this is my thoughts, and soon all assumptions will be gone :)

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Originally Posted by Jazzman

HERE on ORB is the 3DMARK06 for a Q9550 at 4.0Ghz = 5776 verses 5846 for Phenom II 940 @ 4.0 Ghz seen HERE. :D

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Q9550

With NV

http://hwbot.org/signature.img?iid=144647&thumb=false

http://hwbot.org/signature.img?iid=165460&thumb=false

http://hwbot.org/signature.img?iid=151451&thumb=false

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5315/21142mv5.jpg

http://hwbot.org/signature.img?iid=156390&thumb=false

With ATI 4870

5875 - http://service.futuremark.com/result...eResultType=14

6181 - http://hwbot.org/signature.img?iid=145358&thumb=false

6070 - http://hwbot.org/signature.img?iid=139843&thumb=false

With ATI 4870 X2

6324 - http://hwbot.org/signature.img?iid=171762&thumb=false

6056 - http://hwbot.org/signature.img?iid=144647&thumb=false

I do not say that Q9550 is better, but it is comparable with AMD P2 big time :)

:wave:

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Originally Posted by AbelJemka

PII 940 at 5846 is DDR400 cas 5.
What's yours?

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DDR 471 4-4-4-10. Notice that PII screenshot with NB @ 2600? I can drop my multi and run 8x500. With better ram, I can run a 5:6 ratio at DDR2 1200 5-5-5-12 PL7.

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Originally Posted by Zucker2k

Just did a quick run with my Q9550 @ 4Ghz (8.5 x 471): Score = 6008

http://service.futuremark.com/result...&resultType=14

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Yes and it should be 6k.
I've seen many fanboys on several forums claim that PhII @ 4ghz is faster then C2Q @ 4ghz in 3dmark06. It simply isn't faster then C2Q.
I don't say that Jazzman is a fanboy, but there are people who are and compare phII with F* C2Q scores :(

Ok, what about 3DM Vantage?
At 4GHz P2 manage to hit 13520 CPU points.

Q9550 at 4 GHz and lower clock
3875 MHz (with lower GPU clock) – 15876
http://hwbot.org/signature.img?iid=172774&thumb=false

3911 MHz (with lower GPU clock) – 15450
http://hwbot.org/signature.img?iid=155864&thumb=false

3706 MHz (with lower GPU clock) – 14948
http://hwbot.org/signature.img?iid=155797&thumb=false

The results with higher clock than 4GHz

4084 MHz – 16593
http://hwbot.org/signature.img?iid=157015&thumb=false

4030 MHz – 16711
http://hwbot.org/signature.img?iid=172882&thumb=false

...

AMD Propaganda !!

I have to admit some of these CB10 results from PhII look odd...
Here's a run using XP64 on a fairly well tuned 9950 just as a point of reference. I find it hard to believe a PhII couldn't at least better these results.

CLICKABLE:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3..._1225_CB10.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daveburt714

I have to admit some of these CB10 results from PhII look odd...
Here's a run using XP64 on a fairly well tuned 9950 just as a point of reference. I find it hard to believe a PhII couldn't at least better these results.

CLICKABLE:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3..._1225_CB10.png

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See this please :) (64 bit OS)
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...-965-review/10

Oh guess what? Yeah, sorry to spoil the party, but this thread is titled

'Retail AMD Phenom II X4 (Deneb) OC spotted'

So whats with the all the off topic posts, AGAIN the usual culprits :shrug:, just what is stopping you peeps starting a different thread comparing I7 vs PII, oh yeah, that was it, PII isnt released yet

Recently started reading threads at overclockers.com, and guess what, there aint no off topic posting as those who continually decide to post in this manner are handed a warning and are then BANNED.

I hope to see the admins start conducting a similar sort of stratedgy here at XS as I am FEDUP of seeing the same bull:banana::banana::banana::banana: arguments occuring.

What is some of you peeps problem?

This thread AINT about I7 its about retail AMD Phenom II being spotted. Until then could you IGNORANT peeps please stay ontopic. Ofcourse it is already understood which of the wisecracks will argue this point. So to save me having to respond to them, I dont give a toss what you are going to say.

STAY ON TOPIC

Or dont post

Have got passed fed up of this happening, but love XS too much just to let you simple pigheaded peeps force me to start posting/reading elsewhere.

I want the XS forum moderators to tighten up the moderation so that all the OFFTOPIC posting can be erradicated.

:rolleyes:

oh and

MERRY CHRISTMAS

:D

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Originally Posted by mongoled

So whats with the all the off topic posts, AGAIN the usual culprits :shrug:, just what is stopping you peeps starting a different thread comparing I7 vs PII, oh yeah, that was it, PII isnt released yet

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by mongoled

This thread AINT about I7 its about retail AMD Phenom II being spotted. Until then could you IGNORANT peeps please stay ontopic. Ofcourse it is already understood which of the wisecracks will argue this point. So to save me having to respond to them, I dont give a toss what you are going to say.

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They are comparing C2Q with PhII, not I7 and PhII... so who is the IGNORANT one? :down:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mongoled

I hope to see the admins start conducting a similar sort of stratedgy here at XS as I am FEDUP of seeing the same bull:banana::banana::banana::banana: arguments occuring.

What is some of you peeps problem?

STAY ON TOPIC

Or dont post

Have got passed fed up of this happening, but love XS too much just to let you simple pigheaded peeps force me to start posting/reading elsewhere.

I want the XS forum moderators to tighten up the moderation so that all the OFFTOPIC posting can be erradicated.

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This is a discussion. If you are FEDUP yourself, then don't come here and rant. :down:

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Originally Posted by Ghostbuster

They are comparing C2Q with PhII, not I7 and PhII... so who is the IGNORANT one? :down:

This is a discussion. If you are FEDUP yourself, then don't come here and rant. :down:

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For you and all those who have reading problems

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...91#post3526091

Have fun, that is if you can grasp the concept

:welcome:

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Originally Posted by mongoled

For you and all those who have reading problems

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...91#post3526091

Have fun, that is if you can grasp the concept

:welcome:

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All I see is another rant there.. :down:

Enough.

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Originally Posted by Spacemaster

But that is not ok! :mad:

AMD is doing great job with new P2 CPUs, and with prices that they offering, I think that costumers will be pleased. But comparision with i7 is too silly. Results of the 45nm C2Q is comparable, that is for shore ;)

I spot this link here

http://www.ocxtreme.org/forumenus/showthread.php?t=4302

Let see some test of this link

1. Super pi 1m - C2Q is better
2. Super pi 32m - C2Q is better
3. Cinbench R10 (this is interesting)
AMD P2 at 3000 MHz - 9754
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 at 2664 MHz - 10471
Intel Core i7 940 at 2930 MHz (HT on) - 13792
4. Wprime 32m
AMD P2 at 3000 MHz - 13,437
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450, Q9550 ... can not find results
Intel Core i7 940 at 2930 MHZ - 8,46
5. Wprime 1024m
... i7 - 264,475
AMD p2 - 428,625 ...

Please can some one find rest of the results ( Q9550 and Q9450 at default clock ;) )

The point is that i7 can not compare with AMD P2 it is not same platform ...

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This is what you are going to see in the press.

who?

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Originally Posted by Drwho?

This is what you are going to see in the press.

who?

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In my country I am part of the press, and son we will se results. :)

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Originally Posted by Spacemaster

In my country I am part of the press, and son we will se results. :)

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Good, we will compare with the other web site, and see :)
The best way to build an opinion is to use many source of information.

:)

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Originally Posted by Drwho?

Good, we will compare with the other web site, and see :)
The best way to build an opinion is to use many source of information.

:)

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I must agree with that :) :up:

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Originally Posted by Spacemaster

I must agree with that :) :up:

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Thread moved from "News" to "AMD", i must stop posting.
See you!

Lol:ROTF: