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Yea, sure. The thing is... for internet/office/music like you said a 2 y/o laptop is way more than enough. So bringing them to a Nehalem thread is irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedjo
When Yukon Trooper said "day-to-day apps" I'm pretty sure he meant anything that makes the CPU sweat a little.
Then you need a good videocard, not a good cpu :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Nedjo
very nice read!
those results all make it look like nehalem=Core2+HT+IMC...
no real ipc improvements?
and in call of duty4 its slower than a core2 quad?
and tripple channel is slower than single channel?
hows that possible?
sounds like something is wrong with call of duty...
Metroid, the human eye does not see in FPS and it is not locked at 60. The higher your FPS in game, the better the feel of the game due to other inputs (mouse, keyboard) becoming smoother.Quote:
Originally Posted by Metroid
Unfortunately People use LCDS today so don't get as much added benefit from having a higher FPS (I still use CRT for gaming).
There are other quirks too, in the CoD series (all of them), they use the old quake 3 engine and this allows better jumps at 125 & 333 FPS) but that's just bad game design).
So before trying to take the piss out of people, get your own facts straight or you'll look like the ass you just made yourself.
Just one of those things. It's a different design (i know, sucking eggs time :) ), so there is a chance it will be better and worse in apps.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
If you think about it, it's a better designed Phenom, aimed at the server market, so gaming is the bomus, so to say (which Phenom failed at).
For Premiere you'd be much better off buying a Quadro FX3700 with the new RapiHD plugin, and GPGPU video encode.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caparroz
AE doesn't even multitask elegantly. Relies on Gridiron Nucleo to do it right.
;)
might be we go to a more specialized application hardware approach than a general one.
Its good software goes faster using more cores, making more threads useful for people doing a lot of work, which it is, work, not the time people spend wasting away on games.
Its just that, If I am upgrading, I would like things to be better, to be able to measure the difference in my use of the computer.
Some people here think super pi world record is the coolest thing on Earth and I think a really good blow job is way better but that just me.
Setting new boundaries are also cool.
When I use my computer I like a fast experience, if I am playing games, obviously I want a faster, measurable difference if I buy 1k stuff in a upgrade.
That is why I upgraded my old raptor to a new velociraptor, this is why I got a second videocard, to enhance the things I do and that I can measure in real world applications not super pi.
And if the new hardware don't get me a measurable difference, why even buy it?
Beacuse its new?
Apple have sold people design and status which works for them but PC are like the Russian idea of networking where grey is the common color.
Unless i7 gives us a faster measurable difference in those applications I run notable in your experience, there are no reason to upgrade.
I might just go with Deneb to get a different hardware to play with.
and if someone says that super pi is way cooler than a blow job they never got one.
;)
Its not. People just dont know how to translate chinese.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
I tend to listen this statement more than Metroids. why?Quote:
Originally Posted by villa1n
Playing First Person shooters online, even at the highest level, putting those skewed settings aside, I will always take 200FPS over 60.
Some engines especially older like VC, sometimes get microstutter even at higher frames, and in general the quicker you can get your machine to act (more inputs if and smoother motion if your FPS is higher) the better.
The effects are not such a pain in single player, but when your playing other players that will shoot your head off in an instant, I always take FPS over eye candy.
On topic though, it seems rather strange to take any benchmark for gospel, none of them were made to test this new archetecture yeah?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/...&postcount=181
Very different numbers by Coolaler compared to pconline.
then what does it say? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
That was the level loading times, saaya.
The 2 trichannel slides is time to load the game in seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Why buy a Quadro when you can mod a 8800? :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Macadamia
I don't know about Rapihd. A lot of people is saying that its settings and results are piss poor. They should have a trial version.
Anyway, I still need a fast quad in my workstation. Multitask is my second name. :D
8 hours..:hrhr:
Well nehalem is and will be better than any current cpu's but, not that good what this all hype makes people belive.
I see difference, LCD screen tearing.. (Upper and downer image halfs different frame or something like that) does not have that problem in CRT monitors :/.Quote:
Originally Posted by gOJDO
You have to toture me for that long? I don't want to part with sleep!Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
Oh well, when I wake up, i7 + new MacBook Pros. :p:
You? I have a 100ft extension cord and 100ft of cat5 run out so I can wait for the truck by the road!:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Macadamia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motiv
Judging of how latest phenom are doing, deneb may have a chance here to surpass nehalems on the gaming department, if these results are/were true... and you possibly will see faster i7 Core's by next year...
waiting to see my dad pissed off by possibly the announcement of the new macbook air since he got his yesterday LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Macadamia
Hey Dave--don't forget to lay the 1,000 miles of extension cord and 1,000 miles of Cat5 so you can send it to me after!Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
No habla Bobsama:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobsama
Edit:
Oct 14, 2008 7:36 AM
At local FedEx facility
LONDONDERRY, NH :woot:
:shrug: Je ne parle pas Movieman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
And NICE!!!!!!!! But shouldn't that be in a FedEx facility local to me? :D
ha to bad every new game engien nowadays has the render engien decoupled from the physics -, other engiens. Every pro know this. :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by LOE
It doesn't matter any more if you run a gazillion fps on your screen, modern game engiens have a internal max -> for doom3/quake4 its 60fps.
Plus there are far more important thins then fps for some online fps eg. tickrate ofthe server for HL2/TF2. :yepp:
Neeeed ... drugs , *ack* Pain ... Hurry ... Info :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
Seriously, stop teasing MM I'm dying because of the lack of the nehalem drung in my bloodstream
Would you say this for CoD5?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
CoD5, suffers from the same issues every CoD game has with regards to FPS jumps.
And no, modern game engines do not have an internal max of 60FPS. Even if they did, FPS in games helps with the smoothness of controls. 60 FPS in games is detectable from a mouse movement point of view, compared with higher FPS.
^ This is why I prefer around 80 FPS for average.
Four hours ..or less..:D
The anticipation is build up inside of me, Dave! :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
you dont jump further or higher, with 100fps then you do with 30fps. Aiming prehaps but that has nothing to do how fast a gameengien runs internally. ID has called them ticks and vavle still calls em that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Motiv
Are we talking 4 hours until total NDA expiration? Or the expiration of the NDA which covers the main NDA :p:
Your pacemaker gonna set out soon :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
I call dibs on his stuff:p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Dave if you don't check in every few hours you know someone is going to send an ambulance to your house. So even though you can't share pictures/results/screen shots you must send updates.
Who is gonna send an ambulance? The paramedics might grab the stuff! :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Blauhung
Dave, I'll call every hour, starting... now! :p:
EDIT: Busy line. :(
off topic but i have to correct this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
you are completely wrong, you mention pros as if you know what you are talking about but I doubt if you have ever played COD CAL or CEVO or taken a few seconds to google this topic because you wouldn't be spreading this nonsense. The cod4 engine (used for world at war) is still heavily based on quake3. The entire game clock that affects physics, movement, hit reg, nade throw, melee attacks, getting stuck on things, etc... is ALL a function of the framerate. this is why league players strip their graphics to maintain 125fps at all times because any less than that and you will be crippled by the delay in the game clock, hell you won't even be able to make many jumps (although I and many others keep a max_fps 100 bind handy to get a max_packets 100 rate for high precision shooting, and then change back to 125 for everything else). Check the config files of any COD pro and you will see max_fps 125 and all the graphics options disabled and a low enough resolution to maintain it at ALL times, if your framerate ever dips below that you are at a serious disadvantage at the pro level. 222fps will give you an even higher advantage but unfortunately that's impossible to maintain on current hardware so everyone uses 125.
The amount of misinfomation on XS is getting ridiculous, people just spew nonsense without any kind of research.
I remember reading somewhere that a higher FPS gives you an advantage ; in other words your're a few milliseconds ahead of the pack.
when every action/event in the game is dependent upon those few milliseconds like in the cod4 engine it can make all the difference in the world in many situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by savantu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedjo
Well, one good advise:
Before you start speculating on the performance of a processor/platform, please wait to see the entire castlle built before you judge the architecture ...
for example, most of you know that the "geometry" of the platform matters, and you can notice that the memory controler moved. it does result a change of latency/bandwidth in the architecture, I (and a team of smart Dudes :up:) worked dilligently with vendors (interested in doing so) and device vendors to take advantage of this, and the large bandwitch of QPI. Over time, you will see new drivers coming out ... hehehehe :wiggle:
What ever was run yet was not optimized platform ... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:party: :party3:
so, wait to see the completed casttle.
I suppose ATI (AMD) is not in that list :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Drwho?
I can't speak for them, but i think you will be surprise :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
I worked with them on skulltrail ...
I try to keep the competition nice, with the olympic spirit.:)
Who ever you are, if you have a PC product that is cool, I ll work with you.
If you don t see the increase in the connect of QPI to the GPUs ... i can t help you.Quote:
Originally Posted by duploxxx
Usually, when somebody tell me that I am marketing, I bend their bones, and kill them many time in unreal III. Don't do that again .... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
or get your internet connection ready, install UT III and get ready for the punishment.
Cool, that sounds good. Can't wait till November, any chances of a closer NDA lift date? :wasntme: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Drwho?
Dude, just chill, Why so hostile, please don't discourage the people that actually know stuff from posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by duploxxx
he's been reported :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by gallag
Puts on Mod hat.
and in app 2 minutes I'm sending him on a 7 day vacation from Xs.
I usually like the guy but I asked that Dr.Who? be treated with respect and he ignored my request.
Let me talk to you guys for a minute as if you were sitting in my living room;
When someone comes to Xs from a company to share their knowledge they are our guests just as you would be in my home.
I wouldn't treat a guest in my home disrespectfully and neither should we treat these people in that manner.
Now I've read a lot of what Dr.Who? has written and after 35 years working in sales I'm a pretty good judge of character.
What I see in him is a guy who loves his work, one who is sharing what he can and is probably dying to tell us all he knows but can't because of NDA in effect for a while longer.
I saw the info he brought on SkullTrail after the NDA was up and he was very helpful.
Cut him the same slack you'd want in his position.
Last, to those that get their kicks by thinking that this thread or Xs in general is a place to come and show your great intelligence by slamming these guests of ours I'm telling you plain;DON'T!
You think you know more than he does then go submit your resume to Intel and take his job by showing your brilliance but don't mess with him here or I'll turn into the Mod from Hell and thats not my style.
Thanks for reading!
fyi i never touched a cod game, so yes i didn't know that cod is still based on Q3 (which by now is more then a decade old). Personally i dont consider the Q3 engien as a "modern engien". Even it was pimped out and tripple turbo charged over the years. Especial if they still rely on a single thread that handles and sync everything, as you said for yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by shiznit93
My statement is still correct for every other engien out there, be it IDs Tech 4, Epics Unreal Engine 3, Valves Source , Cryteks CryEngine1 and 2, even RTS engiens like EA LAs SAGE Engien does it. Dont blame me that Infinity Ward thinks people with deep pockets need an advantage over the mainstream gamer.
Anyways seems i have stepped into a nest of CoD fanboys, which is kinda funny cause i never even mentioned CoD, my reply was in regards to somone mentioned quake3 and not CoD. :yepp:
Back to topic:
Movieman you have any status updates? :)
Cool deal! I for one appreciate DrWho?'s info alot. I've been pulling my hair out trying to get straight answers and he's one of the few that has corrected alot of these dang rumors started by those infamous propaganda sites. I know he's under NDA, but he's helped alot where he can on things, and he is a great asset to this forum. I'm glad he comes here, and am glad you stepped in and promised to every time something like that happens because I don't wanna see him ran off.
Just because somebody works for a company does not mean they are advertising every time they speak, and that's not just an insult to him, it's an insult to people's intelligence here.
***Nobody*** knows a product better than the people who work with them every day.
<salute>
I cannot understand the grammar in half the posts in this thread, but that is what makes this international web community of ours so great.
I agree that these reviews we're seeing are from beta systems; however, isn't the underlying problem with SMT and poorly threaded software, like the games tested, the issue here? Core i7 may be a little too advanced for most home use software currently. This will change soon with the coming of Windows 7 and DX11 when software will be multi-threaded by default basically.0 Also, for those of you who think QPI is useless in a one socket system, think about the bandwidth it will provide to add-in cards like GPUs. Us Hyper Transport boys know what's up :yepp:.
I strongly believe both Intel and AMD will be successful with their new platforms. The changes they both have made are sure not to let anyone down.
Yes very correct if the game is not synchronized but then again all comes to be balanced once more. It is simple when playing first shoot player games as the FPS or update rate differs for each user.Quote:
Originally Posted by villa1n
Example:
Player 1 = 80 FPS update rate = 60
Player 2 = 80 FPS update rate = 80
Player 3 = 60 FPS update rate = 60
Player 4 = 60 FPS update rate = 120
Player 5 = 120 FPS update rate = 120
The above example's outcome will all be the same.
Why do I say that?
If you have the edge and the other player lags behind which means you can not see him like you can see a player equally configured as ping + FPS and update rate are involved because he does not have enough update rate to keep the FPS going.
A good example is unless the lag player is static you can not shoot him with a good accuracy either he can not, suppose we have 30 players and only you have the advantage in ping, FPS and update rate do you think you will be much better than them?
Answer: No.
The fact remains clear the balance is above all.
That is about the response time and not FPS, you are confused about it. If you play with higher FPS rates which means the game will be faster and so the response time and yes the response time will get smoother but then again you will see only 1/2 of frames which is not needed and clearly will not be seen by you. So this is a response time issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Motiv
This is hard for gamers to understand, my friends tell me the same the higher the better, it is inside their minds and marketing from graphics companies, some video game companies are utilizing this nonsense, it affects mainly the response time when playing at real time 60 FPS. It is not needed anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by The0men
Like I sad response time issue that is all, nothing to do with the FPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by shiznit93
Yes and No. A good game creator balance it.Quote:
Originally Posted by savantu
Metroid.
Oh, I forgot to add:
Nehalem is here!:up:
Intel Smackover MB,3200EE unlocked cpu,3x1 gig DDR3-16000 and a TRUE..
Let me see..HMMM..:idea: What multi to use???
What is 4000 divided by 133?:rofl:
Only kidding.. I'll be a happy camper if everything fires up ok.
This is new to me also..;)
Nice! :) Post some results as soon as you can, please. :D
omg.. to bad you cant show any pictures. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
so if we watch your folding scores closely, we may have an idea about how fast nehalem isQuote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
Only to find out your board is bad and needs replacement after you drooled too much on it and started it up :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
The No.1 rule...drool and electronics dont mix
Riiigghhttt, you forgot to add. You just wanted to tease from the top of your overclocking mountain. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
Cant wait to here about it. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
you're getting me nervous!!!! me want results or at least a clue to confirm if the current benchmarks are real /faintQuote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
well well ?? it's been a hour+ :D
:cord: Pictures, with anty japanese :banana::banana::banana::banana: jaggy filter ... Anything ! :nuts:Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
response time is a function of the framerate in quake3/cod1-2-4, look it up if you need to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Metroid
congrats MM have fun!
Make sure to link us to the thread if you make one about it!!
Now a question to you. Do you think what they did regarding to level the frame rates up to get a standard response time was okay?Quote:
Originally Posted by shiznit93
Personally for me if the game runs at 60 FPS which means real time I would expect the game to have a standard response time like any other game even in consoles, emulators and so on.
Metroid.
can we drag this discussion about a decade old game engine into another topic, i really dont think anything of that is news. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Metroid
Yes sure, I do not want to take Movieman's glory away.:p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
Metroid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macadamia
ahhh i see, thanks :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
its still slower than the 9770 in cod4 though?
and smt makes it even worse? weird...
http://www.techpowerup.com/img/08-10-13/35l.jpg
I think it's because it's a imature platform as DrWho? pointed out. A/w, CoD4 is not the most multithreaded game around. Mass Effect, Assasins Creed and SupCom would be good tests.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
And those SMT results reminds me of P4 when HT actually slowed down a lot of apps.
I have been mulling in my head what situations could benefit and what could be a liability with SMT for quite awhile.... my real problem understanding is how does the thread scheduler prioritize threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Scenario: A two threaded application runs, question: what core is scheduled?
The presentation to the OS of 8 logical cores, 4 physical cores raises a conundrum ... a dual threaded app will best be served by running on two physical cores, does a thread scheduler realize or is it aware of the optimal way to schedule the threads?
Makes sense, if it uses a physical core and a logical core, then the performance is way worse then 2 physical cores? Could that explain some of the "subpar performances" we've seen? Software or windows will have to re-order the physical and logical cores then, IE use all physical cores first, then logical whenever needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
If this thing is not killing in games I can see it as Q9550 now and than I'm waiting for the "tick" version of Nahalem, or not... :p:
Well, I have only really seen in the data sub-par performance in gaming... in multithreaded code, in general, it is performing well overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by ap4lifetn
Nehalem will be a mixed bag ... and it will be interesting to see if what we are seeing is simple immaturity in the BIOS and platform implementations, and other more controlled studies than just leaked asian benchmarks.
...and to find out whether Turbo mode has been active all along or not.If it was,then all the clock for clock comparison tests(even the 4 threads ones) we have seen so far will be meaningless.If it wasn't active,then Nehalem will be a good tick after all.Games are not everything...There are more and more apps being optimized for many-cores designs so the design will be ready to make use of this fact.The only problem that remains is the level of threading software designers will be able to produce.4+ threads will work great in some cases while in others it won't work that well.Boils down to what is easy to thread and what not.Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
need a few more games testes SMT is used for paralleling threads.
Another good point ... but, if anything, Nehalem is going to highlight very well apps that are well threaded and those that are not.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
I am, as many other are, questioning the wisdom for designing in such a lean l2 cache -- I mean 256 K is quite anaemic ...
Frankly, it won't be until we see the launched platforms, people here at XS get their hands on them, and appropriate mix of benches done with the smattering of BIOS configurations to really figure this out.
Just wondering, has anyone compared nehalem to q6600? A lot of people still have them and if the QX9770 is that much better in these tests, I'll stick with cheap stuff for a while.
I think you are misreading the data, in all but the COH a 2.93 GHz Nehalem is faster than a QX9770 ... a 2.66 Nehalem will be roughly the same as a QX9770 or better... with the exception of what is shown in some games (COH, WOC, COD4) ... but even these will be significantly faster than a Q6600.Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] Synthetickiller
The Crysis benchmark is on load times, the rest are synthetics, rendering, and file compression software.
Now, the question is really is the application you are looking for worth the money in the upgrade ... if your idea of a computer is simply gaming, regardless of Q6600, Core i7, Phenom what ever... the answer to the question is actaully no ... that is because how you play the game is GPU determined, not CPU determined.
Jack
Just look to my thread: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=202139
And you will see that the Nehalem will be much faster..ofcourse you have to compare them at the same speed!
JP.
Thinking about the same thing I'm thinking ?Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] Synthetickiller
Nehalem EX Skullthrail and 4 GTX350 ? :hehe:
Folding Monopole Farm ?
I am thinking the same, 256kb seems too small, but dont forget the L3 cache is inclusive, so all data from L2 and L1 is stored into the L3 cache. Thats 4*(256+64) = 1280KB it takes awa from the L3 cache. With bigger L2 caches you would start canabalizing the L3 cache. The inclusive architecture also has the advantage that a core doesnt have to "search" into the other cores L2 cache. This means less traffic to the L2 cache. Another advantage is that the L2 cache isnt occupied with inter core traffic.Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
Judging these advantages maybe a 256KB L2 cache is justified?
I still have my doubts, but we will see in a month :)
I kind of disagree with you here, at least from the perspective of a Home User.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
I am looking to get a new system sometime in the first QTR of 2009 and I was considering Nehalem, but if it can't beat a Dual Core Penryn in gaming, then with the price premium it will carry, it would be of no value to me, as a Dual Core Penryn is plenty fast enough for all my non-gaming needs.
Hell, Deneb could even come into consideration for me if their IPC & Clock rate improvements prove not to be illusory.
The effect of memory speed/bandwidth on application performance has tended to be much over played for a long time now.
JJ, is the low hanging fruit all gone?Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
Or they just figured out that this would be the easiest way of increasing share and profit without risk... I mean, we all know what they're trying to dethrone here. :p:
For simple home users a E6600 is already to fast, but agree with youQuote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
This is a very hard question to answer .... the short answer is yes and no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macadamia
It depends on what you mean by low-hanging fruit. For example, the most common low hanging fruit is cache size ... up the cache is almost a guaranteed increase in IPC efficiency, the problem is that the % improvement decreases geometrically with size ... for example, the improvement going from 256 K to 512 K is larger than going from 2 Meg to 4 Meg cache ... in most applications (it is app dependent). However, designers often spend some of the transistor budget increasing cache one generation over the other (Intel most commonly and now AMD will start doing it more often I suspect -- shanghai is a good example).
However, there is still plenty of room to improve IPC. A microprocessor today be it Core based or A64 based, actually spends more time dormant (waiting on instruction/data) than it spends in actual execution. The actual IPC of, for example, a C2D core varies between 1 to 2 on average ... this is because there are several lost cycles when the CPU stalls ... to improve, designers need to find and design clever ways of avoiding these stalls and keep the processor more occupied over time.
So many tricks have been implemented a long time ago (OoOe, wider cores, larger cache, TLBs, wider instruction windows, BTBs etc.) ... some improvements can come (low hanging fruit) by simply making some of these tricks bigger --- both Barcelona (and now Nehalem) for example have worked to increase the instruction window and that buys another 10-15% over prior generations (in the Barcelona case at least).....
Revolutionary designs though will be needed to make major leaps I suspect (my opinion)... something new that has never been done before.