Any chance we could see a 1m run closer to 3.5? Seeing 3.5 in the first post then a mere 3.2 for 3d is somewhat disappointing :( AMD needs to step up.
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Any chance we could see a 1m run closer to 3.5? Seeing 3.5 in the first post then a mere 3.2 for 3d is somewhat disappointing :( AMD needs to step up.
He's talkin' about the DFI board mate :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
Oh... you don't mean stepping but batch date.Quote:
Originally Posted by i found nemo
Back in the good ol' days of Socket 939, we called them "steppings".Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
Check my sig for a great example (Opteron 165).
I thought he made it pretty clear he has no interest in running SPi. Is there some reason why so many are repeatedly requesting this? Is there something in particular you are looking for? :D
Well I can say for sure I'll be getting the 9850 to go with my vapo. So that'll be $250 more spent on a phenom and a total of $1000 spent just tweaking phenoms since their debut. If it doesn't do well under cold I'm gonna be :mad: and :brick: ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
Please stop asking Tony to do this, he has expressed this about 4 times now.
Yes they look for fuel to bring down the thread with why run this at this speed when c2d runs this etc...im not interested ;)
Quote:
I thought he made it pretty clear he has no interest in running SPi. Is there some reason why so many are repeatedly requesting this? Is there something in particular you are looking for?
Again? Were you using the DFI M2R or M2RS?
Tony check your PM M8:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loser777
Sorry man M2R...don't shout at me :slapass:
To ALL
Im running at 3.2 as its EASY, I don't have time to tweak the tits out of this CPU tonight to get it stable at 3.5 for 3D. Its already 2:14am and im back in the workshop about to run cinebench 10 for ya.
I have a feeling I will get 3.5 3d stable, the issue is the NB frequency has to rise along with it to keep the performance good...this takes time.
I merely put the DFI in bold... THIS WOULD BE SHOUTING
Is it still difficult to pump the L3 Cache/NB clocks?
Are you keeping the HTT clock ~ 2Ghz or keeping it closer to NB clocks?
playin with lots of things...the issue is time today, I need 3 to 5 days to get this CPU sweet but I have a ton of other things to do
Just like SuperPi some don't understand that either:shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
Anyway great job Tony and something or anything positive to cast AMD back in a favorable light in the Intel Frat House is a big plus:D
CPU-Z call it Revision DR-B3, Everest call it Stepping B3 that's why I'm confused :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
Anyway, Revision/Stepping/Batch or whatever, maybe it's not so important for expected OC capability, like in Rev./Stepping B2 Phenoms.
Soon(I hope), you will see mine in my Sig. :up:
What you think, those b3 unlocked babies will like -100'c cascades ;) ?
Give me few days... ok, few hours ;]Quote:
Originally Posted by MaSell
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/b3.jpg
:fight:
Props for all the work Tony! Must be gettin damn tired by now though. Get some sleep so you can hammer away again tomorrow!
BT, any chance when you phase this baby, will you test 'higher' temps, say around -30?
Nope, two Phenoms and temps below -40/-50 = platform can't boot :(
NIce clock on that B3... congrats :up:
I'm still puzzled about the voltage. CPU-Z in the first post claims 1.52, AMD OverDrive on page four shows 1.3 volts.
What is the date of the BIOS you are using?
AMD dont user Front Slow Bus :rofl: , they use HyperTransportQuote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
Good goin' Tony. Lets hope mine is going to be just as friendly on air ;)
That Cinebench is pretty impressive. Very close to Q6600 perf. but that's because of Phenom scaling with speed.
And that NB speed is also quite impressive. I'm looking at plus 15k Sandra there. My B2 did 2596MHz max on NB benchable.
Quite a shocker, 1G oc is quite respectable even compared to K8 and mainly because no one [incl. me] expected it off Phenom. But B2 on water did reach and many benched 2.9-3G.
MotF Bane: the value you're looking at is VID rather than voltage. Look at CPUZ for voltage. ;)
Jack, this is one of the most misunderstood features of Phenom that I and Achim have clarified before a few times. Let me explain it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
AMD Family 10h Processor BKDG (>page 110)
Basically, they're not temps in degrees you're seeing, they're Tcontrol values and can read negative at idle. They are perfectly fine in calibration, they are designed to read lower and higher than actual temps but Tctl_max corresponds to actual Tcase_max temp for the core and that is where throttling begins (HTC activation). However, Tctl curve is not linear to actual core temp so attempts to work them out can become utterly futile. :)Quote:
2.10 Thermal Functions
Thermal functions HTC, STC and THERMTRIP are intended to maintain processors temperature in a valid range by:
• Providing an input to the external circuitry that controls cooling.
• Lowering power consumption by switching to lower-performance P-state or.
• Sending processor to the THERMTRIP state to prevent it from damage.
The processor thermal-related circuitry includes (1) the temperature calculation circuit (TCC) for determining the temperature of the processor and (2) logic that uses the temperature from the TCC. The processor includes a thermal diode as well. [KTE: TCC circuitry uses an independent calibrated diode to the rest of the diodes - try shutdown for instance]
2.10.1 The Tctl Temperature Scale
Tctl is the processor temperature control value, used by the platform to control cooling systems. Tctl is accessible through SB-TSI and F3xA4[CurTmp]. Tctl is a non-physical temperature on an arbitrary scale measured in degrees. It does not represent an actual physical temperature like die or case temperature. Instead, it specifies the processor temperature relative to the point at which the system must supply the maximum cooling for the processor’s specified maximum case temperature and maximum thermal power dissipation. It is defined as follows
for all parts:
• For Tctl = 0 to Tctl_max - 0.125: the temperature of the part is [Tctl_max - Tctl] degrees under the temperature for which maximum cooling is required.
• For Tctl = Tctl_max to 255.875: the temperature of the part is [Tctl - Tctl_max] degrees over the worst-case expected temperature under normal conditions. The processor may take corrective actions that affects performance or operation as a result, such as invoking HTC or THERMTRIP_L.
2.10.2 Thermal Diode
The thermal diode is a diode connected to the THERMDA and THERMDC pins used for thermal measurements. External devices use measurements from the thermal diode measurements to calculate temperature during operation and test. These measurements are required to be adjusted as specified by F3xE4[DiodeOffset]. This diode offset supports temperature sensors using two sourcing currents only. Other sourcing current implementations
are not compatible with the diode offset and are not supported. A correction to the offset may be required for temperature sensors using other current sourcing methods.
The default value of the HTC temperature threshold (Tctl_max) is specified in the Power and Thermal Datasheet. [KTE: or read F3x64 [HtcTmpLmt] :p:
The only thing you need to know is, the diode temp you're referencing is read by EVEREST/MB utilities as "CPU" but the values AOD/tools report for each core are Tctl values in degrees. When it reaches the Tctl_max, the processor will assert HTC or THERMTRIP_L by default and either change P-States to cause throttling and VID decrease (thereby voltage) or gate the clocks (shutdown system).
Awesome results Tony! :clap:
I can't wait to get my grubby little hands on one of these!
Hope AMD keeps getting them better. :yepp:
Tony, can you make a wPrime 1024 MT run?
Very Impressive Tony!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Looks like that might actually be stable at 3Ghz near stock V's....
I'm still leary about cranking the voltage on Phenoms, but If they'll do 3.0 around 1.3v's I'll buy one!!
Who am I kidding... I've already been looking. :D
Can't find any in the US yet....
Keep the benchies and tweek experiences coming man, and thanks for your contributions. :up:
good to see some half decent clocks
shame about no comparison to intel
it makes no sense
but what the heck good to see quad cores do 3.2GHz at least :up:
The 3d06 cpu score isn't looking bad at all, good stuff
The fact you don't compare with intel or run pi is pretty funny. Why let people's comments on the internet bother you? :shrug:
Phenoms seem to scale more than intel as the clock goes up so it would be interesting.. Your hardware your decision anyway i guess :hitself:
Keep us posted
Regards
Wow a lot can happen in a day!
Great job Tony:up:
I know most people cant wait to get a B3 BE,but I can't wait
for AMD's 45nm;)
P.S.
Can someone explain this SPI obsession that so many fsb lovers
have? Why not memory bandwidth for example?:rofl:
He posted Cinebench and 3DMark06 CPU score. I can easily compare the results with Intel stuff. (Of course keeping in mind that AMD scales better in Cinebbech, and that Tony hasn't had a lot of time to play with the CPU)
Can't you?
Or does 'comparison' mean Super Pi by definition? I can guess that part, too. Even @3.5GHz Phenom won't likely break 20 secs/1M. There, you have it. If you want the best Pi times, you should look into Intel CPUs and motherboards. Phenom sucks in Pi calculation and I don't think that's too hard to figure out.
Now, let's get this Pi-this Pi-that out of this thread please. If that's only thing that matters, wait a few days - like Tony says, perhaps someone else will do it. :)
How does one make love to fsb? I don't think there's enough room to fit a penis.
You should both chill lol, PI on these should be faster than their predecessors, and scale alot more with the clock, which is what I'd like to see. I was grateful he posted a 3d06 cpu score, and it looks good.
Again, I don't want to see phenom do 5sec pi1m, I want to see how a 3g+ phenom improves the computing time versus a stock one, and compare it with intel. In fewer words, i want to see how it scales. Get it? Yeah.
If he doesn't wanna run it, as i said, tough luck. It's his hardware afterall, I'll wait along.
*note to self, mention pi in an amd thread if you want to be flamed :shrug:
The problem is, if you run pi on it, it's not a good look at anything. We all know that pi doesn't do as well on AMD, and it is in no way any indicator of real world performance-therefore it really has no place in the benchmarking world. If it scaled the same for both processors it would be closer to a fair deal, but it does however show us the differences in such as IPC and how efficient the clock scaling is, and is therefore a tool-but as a valid benchmark, I don't see it. Not something as obviously biased toward the intel side.
Tony, excellent work, I'm glad to see that I didn't waste effort and money tuning up this MSI system for B3 Phenom. When the wife says I can do it, I'll be adding one to my roundup as well...
Can you show us any other benches, NOT pi, and possibly at closer to 3.5?
what the heck are you guys talking about. SuperPi is the best software for testing RAM/system efficiency.
you guys are missing the point about requests for superpi
stop being fanboys
this has nothing to do with that. it is a simple comparison. it shows relative differences between AMD line of CPUs and also Intel Core2 platform
we all know Intel dominates this benchmark. That's not why everyone is asking FFS. Tony posts everest results....that software is a lot more useless than anything else :rolleyes:
why is Tony stubbornly ignoring requests. What's the big deal. I hate everest and sisoft sandra crap but if sooo many ppl asked me to post some results with it including fugger i would install and show these ppl those requested results.........if nothing else i'd do it to not look rude :shrug:
Personally, I no longer even install the stupid benches. Most of the time I don't find the scores indicative of gaming performance, and I really would rather be playing games than watching my computer do endless runs of a benchmark program. Show me a CPU-Z of it at 3.5 and running a game flawlessly, and I'm perfectly content. Because, in the end, that's why I buy this stuff and abuse it. That, and to feed my case modding obsession.
I understand that not everyone shares my view. I wouldn't want them to. Different viewpoints make this place fun, but just remember that my viewpoint has a place just as well as the superpi supporters.
And as for not benching, you know, if he has limited time I'd rather see him pull up 3.5 to stable than waste time on spi and settle for a slower clock.
It's his hardware and let him run what he wants. If he doesn't want to run the stupid thing who cares get over it.
Gentlemen
I work for OCZ, I am not a reviewer, our partners are Intel and AMD, now while Intel are not real bothered about what I do with Core and like me to compare, AMD are a little more sensitive.
So, you will not be seeing comparisons from me, i will be doing them but for my own enjoyment and no one else.
So I will post one side only, this being Phenom in this thread, if you wish to compare go search for Intel benches and brows them side by side with the results you see here....its the best i can do.
When you work within the industry and you are a massively public person you have a whole new set of rules to play by...i hope you all can understand this.
T
No problem with it here. I just appreciate the fact that you're willing to share what ya got. If I want comparos, I have both platforms here.
ok understoodQuote:
Originally Posted by Tony
From now, I will just ignore post for comparisons, if things get heated i will just hit the report button.
So guys read what i post and don't skip important info ;)
:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
Everyword!
One quick question Tony. Are you running benches with C'n'Q ENABLED or DISABLED?
Thanks
DisabledQuote:
Originally Posted by Lightman
Well managed to get 3.4GHZ reasonably stable. Issues are I was benching 3.3GHZ last night and hit 14000 so I am unsure as to how consistent 3Dmark 06 is at this time...but anyway...here is the bench.
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/st....4GHZ_3d06.png
NB speed is around 2.4GHZ, as you see HT speed is 2GHZ
wonder if these chips can handle dice temps as some previous revisions that macci mentioned in the past
Read back man, phase has been tested and coldboot issue was in place.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=123
apologies
missed that post
but with those temps 4GHz looks possible i'm sure heh
Just because those ones had cold boot issues doesn't mean they all do. Of the three phenoms I own, only the 9500 had a cold boot issue below -30C. Both my 9600 and 9600BE booted at -50C. Then again, these are B3, but the only difference was that they fixed the TLB bug in this revision right?
Tony... you are da MAN!!!
Those who still remember good ol' socket 939 (I do!:D ) also remember that some CPUs had coldbug @ +10c, and others would work very well on dice.;)
Nice! Though its odd b/c I can put up 4k CPU with my dual core @ 4.5Ghz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
run your CPU at 3.4 and see what it gives you...Quote:
Originally Posted by jas420221
man a 6400+ at 4.5HZ would kill this quad at 3.4...please get real
Good to finally see some potential from Phenom. I won't be upgrading until at least 45nm, but it's nice to get a handle on where things are going.
Seems they fixed more than just the tlb-issue with this stepping. I appreciate lower vdimm for the mem and better oc's on 64bit vista.
@Tony: Have you ran cb10 with 2GB NB speed and beside that same settings as in your screenshot? If so, what results did you get? Looking at your last 3dmark screeny you applied ~1.58V to the CPU. :eek: from what i saw before b2's topped out at ~1.45V.
yeaQuote:
Originally Posted by AgentGOD
technically if u see cpu-z screenie b3 is actually a revision ....Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
edit -
i see that it says it's running single channel .... why is that?
single is miss reported, its unganged
ahh i see
Easy killer. Dont jump on the defensive for no reason. (battered AMD syndrome?) :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
Im just shocked that I am so close with 2 cores. Most o/c quads arent even close to my score.
And a 6400+ @ 4.5Ghz... 1. Isnt possible on air. 2. A 6400+ @ 4.5Ghz wouldnt beat it out as it is slower than Penryn in the first place. If I didnt beat it at 4.5Ghz no AMD is going to.
you are pushing for this to be AMD Vs Intel, this is NOT what the thread is about and I will pull away if this is what it becomes.Quote:
Originally Posted by jas420221
im not interested in what your C2D is doing, the thread is about Phenom.
1. You got a PM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
2. You brought it up what the 6400+ could do, I just went along with it in the context.
Like I said in PM, chill out man. :up:
you misread it, he said a 6400+ at 4.5G would beat the phenom quad @ 3.4G as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by jas420221
No no.. I got it. Im was saying he is wrong and used my C2D (sorry Tony) as a comparison for proof. I said if my chip cant beat out his quad (but is "oddly" close), the 6400 at the same clocks sure as heck wont do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by biohead
Tony, sorry...I'll keep heed of the idea of this thread!! :)
And I think this thread shouldn't have anything to do with your C2D as we all read enough to know what they will do.
Guys, lets move on, but please lets not drop the thread into the C2D Vs AMD bucket that most all the other threads end up in...like the one in the news section has already ;)
Someone asked about NB core speed, I managed to get 2500MHZ NB stable with the CPU close to 3.4GHZ and ran off an 06 for ya ;)
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/st...2500MHZ_NB.png
Its close to the true 3.4 scores even with the ram a little lower but the NB a LOT higher.
250HTT worked, 251 errored like mad...im still playing with HTT bus OCing.
Dinner now and friday night relax...maybe some more over the weekend.
EDIT: Just examined the scores here and for me there is no loss but no gain running high HTT over stock and pushing up the multi on the CPU.
Phenom was not built to take advantage of HTT increases and this pretty much proves it, there is no need to push HTT UNLESS you are tuning the ram to a specific speed away from the fixed ratio's.
Also it seems NB at 2200 performs as well as 2500MHZ in 3d06 inc the CPU score, so L3 looks to be a none issue maybe once you hit 2200 or so.
Listen up everybody please:) Don't Piss Tony off because he will leave just as fast as he came in and I already see this going down unfortunately:(
Please do not turn this Into a Intel / AMD debate we are in the AMD Section of the forum so that means AMD discussion not Intel.
What allot don't realize is that we need and appreciate people of Tony's caliber and skill level because this platform does not have much of a user base ATM and we are trying to debug whats going on with this stuff on many levels :yepp:
Just the fact that Tony is nice enough to buy this CPU and dedicate his time for all of us and work on the Bios issues and the Ram SPD issues @1066 divider is a huge help for people on AMD with Phenom. Now all that wish to debate Intel / AMD SuperPi please G.T.F.O and please cease and desist;)
So many martyrs, so little behind them... **sighs**
/Unsubscribed. Good luck with this thread and where you drove it for no reason. I hate faux moderators more so than I do fanboys.
Last one for the day ;) also I will write this all up on TTR in a small article.
Cinebench 10 3.375GHZ with the NB at 2500MHZ, as per the 06 run I just posted.
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/st...3.4GHZ_CPU.png
A few MHZ here and there over my last run shows some nice gains....
No need to leave, the AMD boys have a hard time here off the Intel boys and it gets to them on occasion.Quote:
Originally Posted by jas420221
Im not biased in anyway...I just like tweaking but I do see lots of bashing.
stick around m8 ;)
Nice results, definitely good to see something positive!! :up:
Its been a while since I've personally considered building an AMD rig. X4 still isn't quite enough for my tastes but it's like AMD just got a boob job and I'm'a watchin with interest! :D
@ tony, what's the cpu stepping (or batch)
Put's on Mods hat:
Gentleman:
Here's a novel idea for you:
Let's keep this an AMD thread and JUST that!
What does it take to get through to some people that a discussion of one type or the other doesn't have to lead to a battle of the brands?
Why the hell can't people just sit back, enjoy and learn from what Tony is showing and take it for JUST what it is?
This IS the AMD section and that is what should be discussed here.
I swear, sometimes it baffles my mind that people can be so closed minded to only look at one brand..
Tony: Many thanks for bringing this. Good info!:up:
It might seem like a knee-jerk reaction to the uninitiated, but probably a lot of us are tired of the Intel vs. AMD comparison. Especially when no useful information is ever derived from it. I came here to check out Tony's excellent progress, and see how this chip performs.... in whatever way he chooses to present it. And I wouldn't want to see a scintilla of otherwise rare real-world information obscured by wagging e-penises, no matter how small.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
Your just a gentleman on every level Dave:clap: Much to be learned from your artful command of the English language ;) wish I had the same skills with expressing myself:yepp: I think its the Joisey in me .......My approach would be buy these cookies or I'll kill ya:D
No, Just want people to understand that being a fanboy of any brand is not rational.. All of these companies have had their time at the top with great products.. It goes back and forth..Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Esau
What's the relationship between L3 and NB in Phenom? Are they running at the same speed? Or L3 is part of the CPU core ad NB is the only thing that clocks independently?
Tony: Good to see higer clocks on Phenom, both on NB and the CPU itself! Also BIG thanks for trying to figure the 1066 divier out! ( I know ALOT of people is trying to figure this out on the forums and this goes for you to, THANKS!) I see on youre screens that you run around 500mhz 5-5-5-X timings right? Does youre CPU have problems running high CL4 or CL3 clocks?
@BadNizze ....hey a little of Phenom topic but how are those new Opteron Chips?
L3 clocks in sync with nb yes. Amd offers independent core clocking to.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopri
Brother Esau you made me post this time, could have answerd the man for me :rofl:
You been peeking in my windows again? :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by User9498
1066 has rules man. I will try to explain them in the article im thinking of writing but I can touch on them here.Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNizze
If you have 1066 in the Jedec section of SPD...NOT EPP read on.
1 the board will boot with 1066 from a cmos clear
2 it will boot with the default voltage the bios engineer has set
3 the bios will go into 1066 mode, this means lowest timings may be X-5-5-15 for primaries with tCAS unaffected for some reason.
4 Subs change also, the max available to set will rise, the min settings rise also.
5 tRFC is unaffected by 1066 or sub 1066 mode and should be set by SPD unless you force it.
6 I have a feeling HTT clocking is more limited in 1066 mode, BUT the cpu is just as fast with multi OC instead of HTT bus tweaks.
Regards cas4 thats more dram IC than CPU I think, for the benches above i did not try cas4 but I will have a play over the weekend possibly and see how it goes. I was hitting 4000MB/s in memtest unganged which is pretty good so I have a feeling running cas5 over 4 was not holding me back very much ;)
Hahah:D Thanks Marvin but to be truthful I just got this thing a week ago and prior to getting it I had not read up on the Phenom Architecture and Overclocking of it either for that matter (no need to until now) so to break it down into a short answer......I did not have one to give him:yepp: Much for me to learn about how these Phenom CPU's work but it wont take long just have to get rid of the K8 Clocking process in my head and move on with the new:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin_The_Martian
Anyway thank you for helping him out with the answer;) and why is this that you know this and I don't?:ROTF:
look at this.. at the moment i dont know whether this is real or a bug..
lol, was a bug... link deleted... ;)
I was actually peeking in your Windows Vista®. :) Though you'd be surprised just how many are peering in here too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
http://finance.google.com/group/goog...316d73ecc2a5d4
Trying to clear up the mis/disinformation has been a huge start, and this thread could only help add some positive perception AMD's way. Maybe AMD isn't on top at the moment, but the current overall picture is far better than some make it appear.
When you have some time, no rush, can you please run some short multi threaded tests with:
http://cpu.rightmark.org/download/rmma38bin.rar
Just want to see if the RAM (@ 1066) scales with Mhz on the CPU. Thanks in advance.:clap: :up:
:toast: Great job Tony!
I'm asking you a favor. There are a lot of speculations on many forums about the impact of the NB & L3 speed on the overall performance. Since nobody has a "golden" sample like your sample, I'm asking you to do some benchmarks at 3GHz and different NB & L3 speeds. Let's make a comparison between 2GHz and 2.4GHz NB & L3 and the cores running at 3GHz. Choose few multi-threaded and single-threaded apps and show us some numbers. :) Also it would be nice if you can set the DDR2 clocks around 1066 and CL5. Is this so much to ask? :D
Thank you
I would be interested in this as well Tony and good idea dude above:up:
pick the apps, as long as they are free and work in vista 64bit i will run them
not a mainstream bench but i would love to see thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Tony
http://www.realstorm.com/
I always look forward to your threads tony, Im learning alot about phenom by reading them.
Anyone else have a 9850 or 9550 in the mail?
Just been Googling how popular this thread is, seems a few are thinking I have been running massive voltages into the Phenom....sorry guys 1.5V max here for the 3.5GHZ and everything else between 1.3 and 1.45V ;) Default is 1.3V.
seems cpu-z etc has been reading a little high.
the level of trust is some apps just amazes me...
Also the GBT was undervolting a little measuring on the board, the DFI was quite close
so VID reporting may be wrong also if the boards drooping a little etc.
Photoshop(if u have), HD encoding DivX, WinRAR, SuperPi 1M & 8M, 3D Mark 2001 & 2006 CPU test only
if possible could you run vid stress test on css? i mean, if possible.... thanx alot bro ;)
super pi...man i said like 10 times i won't be running it :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by gOJDO
3d01 is ok but single thread, winrar (is it multi thread now?) HD encoding...I would need a HD source to re encode wouldn't I?
CS2/3...is that free..i think not ;)
DivX...i could re encode a tv cap here from mpg.
Just ordered a 9850 from NewEgg. $239.
winrar is MT to I can use that.
Anything else
i dunno i will give you my user name and password and you can get it from steam... i mean, i trust you tony :)