Gotta agree with Shintai on ACP.
It's AMD's way of hiding that "we have Prescott".
Bacrelona at 1.8ghz is 55w ACP. (Which is mine, it's a HE, so-called High-Efficiency model").
At mere 1.8, it's already 55w ACP, and that is with HE version.
Printable View
Gotta agree with Shintai on ACP.
It's AMD's way of hiding that "we have Prescott".
Bacrelona at 1.8ghz is 55w ACP. (Which is mine, it's a HE, so-called High-Efficiency model").
At mere 1.8, it's already 55w ACP, and that is with HE version.
I believe the answer is, yes, they will. Which is what I have been attemptingQuote:
Originally Posted by Dainas
to convey in mentioning AMD may have the upgrade path advantage going
forward. Hard to convince blind loyalists of this, however.
EBL
Speaking of ACP, TDP, and PressHOT, AMD has a problem brewing with K10 thermals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
They've just jumped up the TDPs.
Checkout these two versions of AMD's "ACP" document:
A: http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...A_ACP_WPv7.pdf
TDP: 68W / 95W / 120W
B:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...61B_ACP_WP.pdf
TDP: 79W / 115W / 137W
That's a rather big OOPS.
AMD is still quoting the same bogus Fake-o-Watts "ACP" numbers for the parts, but it appears the TDPs are soaring. The 95W --> 115W is particularly awful.
I like their server comparison : they take a Clovertown system ( haven't they heard of Harpertown ? ) , put 16 sticks of memory ( as if that's widespread ) and compare Intel's TDP with their ACP ( Intel TDP 80w , AMD ACP 75w / TDP 115 ) => end result they gloat about how energy efficient they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Pathetic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SmartAss
I guess Hector doesn't know that the stock price may also be declining due to extremely poor execution, broken products, and under performance? Couldn't be, right? :(Quote:
AMD CEO Hector Ruiz blamed the current stock price on a nervous market, terming the atmosphere "extremely pessimistic".
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOE
Were you reading the samething I was reading? I guess desperate people can interpret bad news as good news.
Yep, all Hail the eternal optimist. Making us take a double takes of things were sure of since 1945. B3 is pretty much just what the reviewer showed us. Its no messiah of AMD's performance deficit, for what those of us without Barcelona (and the 10% hit fix) have seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clairvoyant129
hector makes AMD look so bad sometimesQuote:
Originally Posted by MR_SmartAss
oh please :/Quote:
"If you look at the last five years, if you look at what major innovations have occurred in computing technology, every single one of them came from AMD. Not a single innovation came from Intel," he claimed.
this guy needs to see a psychiatrist
It is disappointing, i hope AMD can get it working and provide some competition for intel. I am confused though, as to why people are saying these AMD cpu's will be better in server applications than intel cpu's. Is it just that AMD cpu's are better at the kind of work a server does? I would have thought power efficiency would come into it somewhat- if the servers built on AMD are pulling ~35% more power how are they better?
Hilarious.Quote:
"If you look at the last five years, if you look at what major innovations have occurred in computing technology, every single one of them came from AMD. Not a single innovation came from Intel," he claimed.
Sure and he's not using PCI-E and AGP before that. He sure as hell ain't using SIMD's either LOL! Oh brother remove and the Alpha tech from AMD and see how much innovation is left?:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SmartAss
Problem is that the hardware fix would only make the Phenom match what the benchmarks had been saying it would be....and the fix isn't coming until late Q1 2008.Quote:
Originally Posted by LOE
And I don't see how this will help them with clockspeeds at all, if anything the fix might end up screwing up their yields even worse since now they're busy trying to fix this erratum instead of focusing on tweaks to improve yields.
There's no way to spin this as good news I'm afraid. But then again I remember back when I used to cheer for AMD in the K5 days, so I'm kinda used to them being on the verge of bankruptcy and screwing up chip launches all the time. Still, AMD pissed me off when they introduced the x86-64 stuff, because I had honestly been looking forward to seeing itanium on the desktop.
Hector is just trying to make himself look better before he leaves :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie27
It's not working.
Unfortunately, this will not be the case I suspect.... the errata is a livelock error when multiple processes are competing for the same resource. Simple solving the logic to correctly share the resource in those rare cases will not necessarily translate to any performance improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD
If you are expecting 10-20% improvement for B3, then the data we saw one would expect implemented the work around... this, in fact, is not the case:
http://www.techreport.com/discussions.x/13721Quote:
Saucier confirmed to us that the test systems at the Tahoe press event did not have the workaround enabled.
Thus the data collected from most all the reviews indeed let the TLB run without any portion diabled ... so what you saw is likely what you should expect.
But, then it could improve for other reasons ... so there is some hope.
Lovely mess that we've got right now :shakes:
I would honestly agree with that and say thats more than likely very true!Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SmartAss
hector was too proud to merge with ati, and too stupid to merge with nvidia.if amd had merged with nvidia their debt troubles would have been gone forever!Quote:
Originally Posted by LOE
But Nvidia probably doesn't want to merge with them. Sometimes merger (and buyouts) works out, sometimes it doesn't. AMD had a great idea buying ATI, but ATI's product didn't deliver, and at the same time AMD's having trouble with K10. So it's part bad decision, part bad luck.
very reasonable comments :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by terrace215
:rofl: owning x ammount pc pc/cpus, tells nothing about beeing a fanboy or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by LOE
I own currently 3 Amd PC and one Intel pc (+ one intel notebook), and i prefer intel right now, because it delivers the performance im looking for.
This post made by legend macci was pretty promisfull where he tested that a 3ghz phenom beated an 3ghz yorkfield with 300points although the phenom was on the slowish vista and the yorkfield on XP¨, but all this lol pretty sad, i guess this partly due the media pushing things, if you can't get the job done in X time then don't lol, releasing an unfinished product :/
See how techreport, manage to turn a overall positive article about AMD in a negative one.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=162378
http://www.crn.com/white-box/202402138?pgno=1
http://www.techreport.com/discussions.x/13389
The low availability of barcelona is nothing new, but techreport managed to used it again for yet more AMD negative crap.
It's only me that thinks this is incredibly dumb? Supercomputing clusters don't run the workloads, but the desktop everyday guy run? lol it's dumb but it's extremely convenient for techreport article.Quote:
When asked for comment, spokesman Phil Hughes said AMD is shipping Barcelona Opterons now, but only for "specific customer deals." Industry sources have suggested to TR that those deals are high-volume situations involving supercomputing clusters. Such customers may run workloads less likely to be affected by any workarounds for the erratum that reduce L3 cache performance, and those customers could potentially consume hundreds of thousands of CPUs.
The fact that the most rabid Intel fans on this forum are constantly praising and using techreport fud, should tell you something...
@Beardyman
A heavily overclocked K10 with a heaviy overclocked NB speed beats a stock (?) Yorkfield on an useless and almost obsolete 3D benchmark? and there was different software involved, wow :(
btw the stock lost 4% yesterday (nasdaq 0.66%). I wonder if that's the reason or if it's just the overall trend and it may get even worse..
Anyway I don't understand the situation. No confirmation by any other news sites. Is it even true? No Barcelona for major OEMs and most of server vendors who want to be sure not to have crashing systems? But desktop gets "faulty" phenoms which may crash when doing e.g. virtualization? (as mentioned in the article..)
doublezero, your post only confirms that it always has been a paper launch and the articles you posted are VERY, VERY old, what meaning does a 2 months old article have in the tech industry?!
And do you think an AMD executive would not lie/spin to make AMD look not as bad?
" Supercomputing clusters don't run the workloads, but the desktop everyday guy run? lol it's dumb but it's extremely convenient for techreport article."
Your making up your own story here.. it's about Barc, that's not a Desktop part and HPC is absolutely different to most server workloads, so it's very possible that some HPC customers - running always the same workload - will never encouter this bug.
However, you're right, the whole story may be overly exaggerated but you should keep your accusations of credible techsites to yourself until we have a definite answer or you may look very stupid in the end.
I believe Bracelona are already being withdrawn. Try to look for a chip now. You won't find any stock at all.
At least, Newegg used to have few left, but they removed the chips from their list. (Can anyone else confirm this as well?)
Furthermore, I also ordered extra two chips (Besides the ones I have), but their ETA also has been postponed indefinitely.
Anandtech got a bad chip and the mobo was overvolting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SmartAss
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/596/11/
Look for any other 9770 review and you'll see the same story : the chip is hot , but not that hot.
This is the way i believe things happened.
Hector calls a meeting of management to decide when to launch K10. In the meeting he is told that if he wants to launch K10 in Q2 07 he will be left with slow speed ramp which will be no way near the performance needed for the chips to worth buying. They work out that with B2 stepping they might get an improved speed steppings but will have to delay launch by another quarter. After some discussion it is decided to wait for B2 to be ready for mass production instead of launching with slow BA chips.
Few month's later and another meeting is called.
The B2 samples show that the chip can take the speeds up to 3Ghz but the TDP is too high at that speed so they will have to launch at more moderate speeds to keep with in their company strategy of increasing performance but keeping power levels the same. The B2 chips go into QC testing to see if they are ready. Early results are showing all OK and Hector takes a gamble and decides to go forth with the already delayed launch before all test are complete. With AMD being in loss for 2 quarters the pressure was to deliver new product as fast as possible to prevent further losses. As the mass production is already underway some bugs start appear in the faster bin's AMD investigates and shows that L3 cache is dodgy and will need some patching up. To prevent the press from catching wind of any technical faults with the chips Hector and his team decide to have a controlled review event. The patched systems seem too unworthy of having and faced with poor reviews and poor sales AMD makes a move to fully disclose what some industry folks have already found out about the chips and while putting on a fake smile and trying to keep as many customers buying to its products AMD stops the B2 production and moves to fix all bugs and relaunch with B3 stepping. This meant that the chips wont be available till few months later due to their fab constraints. Meanwhile the CPU's that they have made go to special orders which have controlled environments and can deal with the bugs in the B2 CPU's, these orders are probably kept due to lowered price of the chips as a sort of "Closing Down Sale".
As a result of another delay of K10 motherboard manufacturers decided to lower AM2+ motherboard production leaving low supplies of CPU's and motherboards all round.
Folks like TechReport are only thinking about them selfs. Intel had the power to release early samples of its crappy P4's because its PR machine can eat up any negative points AMD does not which is why it was left with very poor choices which they had to make. If i remember correctly Core 2 was also controled review event.
In other words none said life is a smooth ride AMD was lucky with K8 working out nicely however with K10 they where faced with having their PR team put the best spin they can so that as a company they can cushion their looses as much as possible like any other company would do. In the mean time they try to point finger at Intel to divert attention from them self's. Which backfires because none cares about the monopoly discussions anymore they just want AMD to keep up with Intel so that when they buy their PC's this Christmas they would be nice and cheap.
HTT doesn't do much for K10 and NB should be close to 2.6ghz stock for a 3Ghz part ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacky
Six pages of AMD bashing in 1.5 days-- This is so unlike this forum.:rolleyes:
AMD has some major problems with K10, We all know this. Quit beating it into the ground.
When Intel was having problem with prescott, these forums were not nearly this visious. What gives?
Even positive AMD threads turn into sh**.
Heres a yorkield with overclocked FSB and 1100mem ves 1000mem on the phenomQuote:
Originally Posted by Jacky
and still it can't overhoal K10, K10 ain't bad at all, it just needs maturing and to give yorkfield a run for ist money a magic touch of overclock wonder :)
And that's where it will fail sadly enough :/
Jacky,
Thats not the point. I guess people post on forums for various reasons. Within the past year, these forums have become very anti AMD.
K10 sucks, AMD sucks, Hector sucks, AMD process tech. sucks, etc....
Whats the reason for pointing this out in every thread.
If it sucks, It sucks, Whats your problem. And Intel got tore a new one during the presshot days about the forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunge100
Gallag,
I fail to see how that comment is pertainent to what I am saying.
Intel never took this kind of beating during the prescott problem.
Edit-- After looking at some of your posts gallag, I would expect you to be critical to my post. lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunge100
If you can be arsed to look through my post history ma bey you should look through the forum history around the time x2 was murdering pd. You will see that Intel took as much :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:ing as AMD is taking now.:)
Gallag,
I will if I can. It may take some time if the data is available. I will do this only if I recieve something in return, when I am proven right. What do you say, gallag, care to put your money where your mouth is....:D
Oh BTW. It only took me a few seconds to look up your post history. Continue with your informative posts.lol
I am just calling it as I seen it. Intel took a hammering about here, toms, anandtech , hardocp and AMDzone (ok that one is a given) etc etc during the presshot days and If any of the Intel fanboys recommended a p-d they were rightly ridiculed.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunge100
I know you think I love Intel (a company that would kill my kittens to make an extra $) but I will get a chance some day (hopefully soon) to prove I am not by ridiculing the Intel fanboys clinging to lame excuses as to why Intel is better when AMD take the lead again (which I am sure they will).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardyMan
I suggest we pass a motion where we declare 3DMark 05 the most important benchmark for the upcoming year. :ROTF: :clap:
i think the only difference is that the press is giving AMD a bigger beating so with more press attacks more threads in these forums being negative towords AMD.Quote:
Originally Posted by gallag
You got a point but one thing that is not beating down on AND is Intels press and marketing department.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn.
Remember dual core dual, money saved by power consumption thing at times square and lets not forget dual core for dummys.
Intel got it in the neck just as much as AMD is getting it now imho.
yea but dont u just wish for people to stop reprinting same news until something new actually happends.Quote:
Originally Posted by gallag
All i know marketing wise living in UK is that Intel is everywhere always has been. I only ever seen AMD advert on Bus stop in middle of nowhere and looked like more of a MS "passion" advert.
When Intel did poorly its adverts had the same tone as todays therefore no mainstream consumer has noticed that Intel has ever been No.2. Now with this ammount of press everyone knows that AMD has gonne back to No.2.
Savantu,
Thanks for proving my point. Beardy man posts an AMD positive. As soon as its posted, Savantu adds a useless post. Good job Savantu, that was an insightfull post..:rolleyes:
Yeah, I do get what you are saying, I really do want amd to succeed, I dread cpus going back up in price as my poor ass would not be able to afford £400 for a proc, But at the same time I only have so much pity for them, there ceo hector has made more money than amd have in there whole time operating and he gets paid more that Intels ceo. Any time I feel a pity buy coming on for amd I remember all I will be doing is rewarding hectors pocket for a job badly done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn.
If he was the lottery, we would win all the time!Quote:
Originally Posted by grunge100
It's not positive , it's dumb.Comparing CPUs based on 3DMark 05 score is stupid.End of story.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunge100
Besides , since when are you the judge on a poster's actions ? From your posts , you're pretty young to the Intel vs. AMD debate if you don't remember the flak Intel received in 2005.
only one problem with that, assuming amd ever release a 3ghz phenom, it wouldnt have the nb clocked that high.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardyMan
Savantu,
I respect your post, but I must disagree. AMD has been pounded into the ground by posters like yourself. If you would like, We can place a friendly wager on how much abuse Intel took around the prescott era. Again, if the data is available, Ill compile the data---If I win (which I will) you can stop posting negative stuff about AMD in EVERY STINKING AMD THREAD. If I loose, I will buy you the nicest Intel processor available (your choice-- not to exceed $1000 US). GAME ON MY FRIEND. PM me if you got the BAL*S.
Until that time, please quit crapping in AMD threads.
EDIT. Savantu, Since you are such an elder on these forums-- act like one. Do you see Fugger, Macci, Opp, Sampsa, Kinc, etc.. Posting all the bull you do. I am sure they have favorites, but they refrain from flame baiting in every thread (like true elders--professional posters)
Any thing else Savantu? Please take me up on this friendy wager.............
I can pretty much guarantee you that there was plenty of Prescott bashing going on when Intel was getting their butts kicked by AMD.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunge100
Seriously though, I'm not a fanboy, but you're not going to find me saying much positive about AMD these days-I've owned a lot of AMD stuff over the years too, and got other people to buy AMD stuff (including a K6-2 system way back in the day). I've owned a T-bird, Athlon XP, and Athlon 64, and on the intel side I've owned a Pentium, a Pentium III (both Katmai and coppermine), Pentium 4 (northwood), and now Core2Duo (actually I guess I also has an original Centrino at some point in a laptop).
Anyways, basically I just bought whatever didn't suck at the time, whether that was a Pentium or an Athlon. Thing is that AMD is sucking right now-and what makes it worse is the fact that they didn't bother telling people that the BIOS fix would incur a 10-20% performance hit...and launching a retail part with a slower memory controller than the benchmarked systems had. That's just not cool.
I rooted for them when they had K5 and it did better IPC than Pentium (Integer calculations anyway), and watched AMD not be able to deliver due to yield issues. Then I rooted for them with K6 and they did slightly better thankfully, ditto for K6-2 (less so for 3 but whatever), and I was pretty happy they made the Athlon.
But that doesn't mean that I should continue to cheer for them when they decide to "innovate" with stupid crap like 4x4, and decide to cover up the fact that their chips have serious erratum that can't be fixed for months and months.
Seriously, why did they ever waste money R&Ding 4x4. On top of which I still have no idea why it was actually neccessary to even invent a new socket for AM2. Is it because AMD didn't futureproof their socket designs properly, or because they just like to invent new socket designs to waste engineering manhours? Either explanation is a pretty poor excuse.
And merging with ATI honestly just sounds like some desperate attempt to claim that they have the future of CPUs, just so their investors don't call in their debts. Yes, one day a combined CPU/GPU might be really useful, but they probably should be spending their money on decent CPU R&D right now, instead of spending billions on ATI.
I guess there's a lot of AMD bashing because it just feels like AMD shot themselves in the foot repeatedly even though they had the upper hand for several years, and could have probably leveraged that into something more productive.
Tek,
I understand, I am very dissapointed with AMD. I am not propping anything they have done in the last year. The abuse in every thread (by the same posters, gets a little distracting). It would be nice to see the bashing reduced to a tolerable level.
Sample post.
AMD has developed a new
SOI tec. It's said to increase transistor perf. by 23%
p1. IBM had to spoon feed AMD this tec.
p2. still doesnt matter, AMD sucks
p3. hector will run this tec. into the ground
p4. hector is sleeping with dirk's wife
p5. dirk's husband is working at AMD now.lol
etc............................................... .........
'
There has been far too many lies and hype pumped out by AMD for it not to go unchallenged at this point. The AMD bashers have pretty much been 100% correct over the last 18 months, and the guys saying "quit with the bashing" 100% wrong. AMD has to restore some sort credibility for itself, otherwise it deserves every bit of the flaming it gets.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunge100
Bashing is not bashing if you are pointing out the truth. That is exactly what the vast majority of the AMD "bashing" has been ever since the day first c2 benches were leaked.
It would be wise if you refrain from attacking the credibility of a source simply because you do not like the story that they are reporting. TR was not the only one noticing the lack of availability. They did not FUD anything, they simply reported based on the information.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleZero
The TLB bug report was also not FUD, they quoted source and named the source, and confirmed that this is why availability of Quad Core Opterons have not made it into the main stream.
TR is not being 'dumb' when they say some shipments are going into HPC apps, he quoted AMD saying that... ipso facto, you must think AMD is dumb.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2228878,00.asp
Extremetech has also followed up on this story, they quote a different AMD person saying roughly the same thing. Granted, it appears more PR damage control than anything else.
This is no doubt bad press for AMD, it is not the kind of news they need in the face of continuing losses and a falling stock price, but the only way to eliminate bad press is not to give the press anything bad to write about. I do not recall TR or any news site 'bashing' or 'FUDing' AMD crap when AMD was executing well and delivering leading products during the K8 pinnacle.
This situation is nothing more than the result of poor execution and the people reporting the information are not responsible, AMD is responsible. In fact, an argument can be made that AMD was a bit shady in trying to manipulate the launch of both products to avoid letting any bad information escape.
As a fan of computing (myself as well as most people here) and obviously a huge fan of AMD (you) -- it is in AMD's best interest that they get a 'kick in the butt' to pull it together before it is too late.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Periander6
Best point so far .... sometimes the best medicine is the medicine that tastes the worst :) .... nothing better the good old honest feedback.
I'll have to pass your bet simply because I'm not into fighting with headlines and compiling loads of data to prove an axiom.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunge100
I was there , I took the full grunt of the green team post Prescott launch , the terrible days of Smithfield vs. K8 X2 , the dual core duel and so on.
The amount of flack given to Intel is 5x greater than now , simply because we're talking Goliath vs. David and people will always support David.
savantu is getting revenge.. same revenge team green had way back in 1999
maybe 2009? ;)
LOL, funny idea...Quote:
Originally Posted by grunge100
Now, my method is hardly scientific... but just for a bit of fun...
Google search:
"Pentium 4 sucks" - 418,000 results
"Phenom sucks" - 166,000 results
Of course, Phenom has been out for a much shorter period of time than P4, but it still has a long way to go before matching P4 on the 'Google suckage meter'. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: