Ow you got a GO cpu, grab this then mate :
http://users.pandora.be/OAP2/Core%20Temp.exe
Printable View
Ow you got a GO cpu, grab this then mate :
http://users.pandora.be/OAP2/Core%20Temp.exe
Thanks again!
Same results now (both cores same temp under load) but coretemp shows 4-5 degrees higher than ITE. I am not converned with that, just happy both cores are reading the same.
Before I lapped, I can hit 4 ghz stable, but I have to turn up my fans and water pump to the point where the noise bothers me. Hopefully in a few days after the AS5 cures I can hit 4ghz stable without all the noise.
I also lapped my Q6600 B3, it was really succeful job :)
Temps dropped from 72-82C to 56-69C on 100% load with QMC. Not bad.
Few fotros here(I forgot my camera to 640x480 resolution, damn):
http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/bull..._SL9UM/hionta/
Ano no that liquid in jar is not water, it is industrial grade ethanol.
http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/bull...a/IMG_1395.JPG
Nice results BullDog, and i am happy people are trying this.
I have done it before for two E6600, with pretty similar results.
coretemp 95.4 will give you accruate temps. A lot of people are mistaken their temps because they are still using coretemp 95.0 please install newer version. Reason being my temps raised 10c. And luckily enough someone told me about it.
I will be lapping my E6850 when i have some spare time. And hopefully get some watercooling gear withing the next 2 weeks :)
very good results ! my sand paper is in the post !
i would like to ask what do you use the rubbing alcohol for ? and how do you stop dust particles from getting under the IHS?
i was thinking of using electrical tape or masking tape , something like that? and putting the little plastic cap thing on whilst doing the laps is this enough?
It does not matte if particles get under the IHS, and if they do then dipping in acohol removes them. I have lapped total of 4 socket 775 CPU´s and never uset anykind of masking tape.
Like sharpening knives - repetition & light pressure not fast & hard :shocked: :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by strange|ife
NOKIA IN FINLAND!!! What?:up: Next your gonna tell me Dell is US based :ROTF: :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by BulldogPO
Ahh... to not get any sleep - makes me a little :nuts: :hump: :hitself: :sick:
I use Alcohol for cleaning the HS to remove any particles or etc. You can use tape to cover the edges and keep the plastic thing to save the bottom.Quote:
Originally Posted by pie_uk
i lapped my Ultra 120, and my cpu, got it up to 3.5ghz........not bad for a B3.
Finished rebuilding my rig so heres a few temps comparisons:
Before 3.6 @ 58c avg 100% load
After 3.6 @ 48c avg 100% load
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...3600stable.jpg
Ambients the same @ 22c, so not a bad drop in temps (-10c)
Also increased the clockspeed and temps are still much lower - currently priming @ 3.7 which averages @ 49c - 9c lower than before with 100mhz overhead! Still not managed to sort out the temp difference between the cores but hey I cant complain.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...bo10/q3700.jpg
nice
How do you get all they readings in PC Probe 2 Ic3man :confused:
Something you edit or something I'm missing? :rolleyes: :)
Something you're missing m8.
I have the blitz motherboard ;). I don't think the other p5k's display all the settings.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6.../3800final.jpg
Now upto 3.8 12hr p95 stable and still a fair bit from 60c:)
real nice results iceman
i saw similiar temp reductions after my lapping job. was getting 19 idle at stock speeds.
but now after overclocking to 3.2ghz im seeing temps of 45-50 under load. so just comparing mine to yours, if i could achieve any higher clock speeds i'd see higher or at the very best similiar temps than what you got. but considering you have a quad core and mine is only a dual, it goes to show how better a finish you got on your setup.
i think i'll take mine out and lap the cpu to a better finish
Applying pressure doesn't really hurt as long as you can manage to apply it quite evenly, and that's the tricky part right there. I actually lapped my E6600 using quite a pressure, and it came as good as my Q6600 which I did with more care.Quote:
Originally Posted by strange|ife
I said the same thing when I saw my q6600. It looks perfectly flat. When I saw the damn thing, I thought to myself "Maybe I got lucky with a flat q6600 :D" but looks like I was wrong :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by vocch
my E6600 is a B2 and cant get it stable on 400x9. it boots but comes up memory read error on loading the os. if i can get the same overclock as iceman i will be very happy
im trying different voltages but when it fails twice i have had to reset bios via the jumper & as you can guess is a pain.
voltages are
1.45 vcore
2.1 v memory
1.40 FSB
1.45 MCH
1.50 SB
1.45 NB
1.057 ICH
its stable on orthos, gaming the works at its current setup. anyone recommend a right heading for 400x9 as the combinations of voltages is quite large.
how did you clean the sandpaper after each rotationQuote:
Originally Posted by annaconda
i rinsed the sandpaper under water & used acetone to clean the heatsink or cpu surface
but when i lapped the cpu i didnt use water. instead i was putting drops of acetone which didnt last long. it was the first time i lapped a cpu and i was being a bit paranoid about killing it
thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by it_burns_when_i_pee
I'm afraid of lapping but with these results I would rather move to the NON-xtremesystems instead of start show some sand paper love :D
Just blow air on it, or dust it with the cloth and remove the junk from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by nealh
Can I dip the cpu in acetone? I think I ended up getting a bunch of particles under the IHS. How should I get them out. Quick dip in acetone?Quote:
Originally Posted by BulldogPO
acetone evaporates very quickly, even more so if you blow on it. so i guess it could be ok.
the acetone i have is 100% but check to make sure yours is not a solution of other chemicals
perhaps its worth taking the chip to your local garage where they have a compressor that can pump your tyres up, give it a blast with that, should lift any particles lodged in there
thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by annaconda
hey, isn't there anything on the processor that can be damaged by this chemical?
I spent 8 years building electronics for Celestica and all we ever used on the line for cleaning IC's was IPA (Iso-Propyl Alcohol).
Dries real quick and if it drys without leaving a mark then it's as clean as your gonna get.
And how exactly do you think Intel is going to determine that you overclocked your CPU ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by annaconda
I personally would never lap a retail chip. I have lapped many engineering samples but on retail chips its not worth voiding the warranty. If you have a hot chip sell it on ebay and try again.
Thats just my 2 cents :)
i can agree with what you say but if you run the chip for a few months then the chances of it dying are minimal. intel are quite reliable from experience & what i've read
then, given the overclocking potentinal and obvious gains from lapping are deffinately worth considering.
as for chips on ebay, keep your witts about as price & performance is a lottery. many people off their un-over-clockable chips and others fetch stupid money because the seller claims massive overclocking potential. for example i was watching a Q6600 that went for far more than retail simply because the guy claimed it overclocked to 4ghz. if it did, why he'd sell such a wonderful chip is beyond me
i am also planning to lap mine: I ordered 400/600/800/1000, but too bad they dont have something between 1000-2000 but they got instead3200/3600/4000/6000/8000/10000 grits, so i want to know if any any grit above 1000 would help, or should I get some 3200? or is not neccasarely?
Its a dutch store but they ship worldwide: http://shop.modelbrouwers.nl/catalog...age=en&sort=2a
800 would be more than sufficient. You have to understand that you're goal when your lapping is not to make it shiny, it's to make it flat. Highly misunderstood by many. People go up to 2000 or so grit but thermal gain is very minimal that it doesn't make 1 degree of a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by mc2k
You don;t need that many different ones. All you can use like Alik said 800, but i would recommend 400 / 800 / 1000, and if you want mirror finish i would skip 1000 and get 1500.Quote:
Originally Posted by mc2k
3200/3600/4000 they are useless. But hey it is your choice if you want go for it, i would love to see the results with any one of those sheets.
yea i ordered alrdy 400/600/800/1000 , so that would do thnx
i lapped mine with just a single piece of 2400 silicon carbide in a circular motion
i didnt see the point in eroding layers with course stuff then smoothing .... and then being concerned about enough pressure on mounting
here's my results.... got 19 degrees idle @ stock speeds, 25 @ 3.2ghz
http://www.gwynfryn.eclipse.co.uk/hs1.jpg
http://www.gwynfryn.eclipse.co.uk/hs2.jpg
great work mate.. that heatsink must have been a real pain in the arse to lap :up:
http://www.gwynfryn.eclipse.co.uk/hs2.jpg
I lapped by b3 and temps dropped 10~12ºC per core on prime, but idle didn't dropped so much...
Later I post pics...
Thanks for the tips!
Good work KeyZersoz3, any pictures.
Lapped a G0 to 1500 grit. Temperature drop is noticeable.
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3...ecustomiy9.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5...ecustomqq2.jpg
nice lap on the cpu. i lapped mine to the point where the silver was smooth and reflective. it was my first attempt at lapping a cpu and was paranoid about killing it
i keep promising i will take it out and lap down to the copper.
@ Solarfall - it was actually, its top heavy and meant i couldnt go too fast or apply too little pressure. took a while to do but its worth it. my arms were killing me afterwards
Just ordered Yate Loon DSH-12, TRUE, and some MX-2. Should have some good temperatures. Right now I'm using some crappy zalman white thermal paste. Also purchased some isopropyl 91%. Finally some 3m wetordry from a local auto store - 220,400,800,1000,2000 grit for $8.50 :D
just lap it with the 2000. i did after reading a couple of guides.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alik4041
many say you need to use more course stuff first - you dont. think about it, after sanding away for some time, you'll be switching to 2000 paper to smooth a surface several layers deep
and considering your getting the TRUE you will no doubt have concerns about mounting pressure, so the last thing you want to do is shave several layers off your CPU.
im still in 2 minds at which is the best technique for lapping though. there's straight, circular or figure or 8. i did circular but see advantages to all, and the disadvantages to each arent a concern aslong as you clean it regularly.
Lapped my cpu and 9500 to 2000grit yesterday and temps went up 3C. Then used AS5 and went back to normal.
There is so much folklore surrounding this topic. Of course it helps to improve surface contact between a heatsink and a processor or IHS. The reason one might use course paper and graduate to finer grit little by little is simple -- it saves time. There is no reason to use a course grit unless there are significant irregularities in the surface.
Do NOT use acetone on any electronics. There is a good chance you will dissolve something dear to a circuit :eek: Isopropanol from the drug store is fine. (180 proof vodka (which is ethanol) will also work.) There are a number of aerosol and non-areosol electronic cleaners around as well. They used to be primarily freon-based, but are now environmentally friendly. Their biggest advantage over isopropanol is ease of application and getting into tight spots.
One more thing -- lighting incense always helps!
Welcome to XS :welcome:
I'm still confused about my temperatures.
You make sure do the light test on both CPU and HS to make sure contact is proper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alik4041
Thanks for the advice. It would make sense if contact is not being made properly because after as5, temps went down. I'll wait until I receive my TRUE. Should be comming soon from Petra's. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by annaconda
I have a E4400 that I have removed the IHS from, really wanna try lapping the core a little bit.:p:
The core is really concave and has a minimal contact surface, so I think the gain would be substancial.
Anyone seen this been done, and how thick is the protectionsurface on the core?
Lapping the core?? is that posible
noQuote:
Originally Posted by GAR
not if you want your cpu to live.
Does that mean you have tried it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
It can be done on a Athlon/Opteron...
I got a piece of glass from work with about 2x the area of a sheet of sandpaper (hehe). I started with 220 grit, then 800, then 1500. Went very fast. Copper is so easy to sand. I rotated the CPU with each change of grit. This makes your progress very obvious.
It is a major pain to sand a Scythe Ninja btw. The Al fins are like razor blades, so you have to grasp it at the bottom, which is difficult because of how wide the top is and how little room there is under it. I ended up grasping the heatpipes right at the base, which is risky because they are hollow, soft copper. Took a lot more effort and time than the CPU. Wasn't even really worth it IMO because it had a very smooth finish to start with and was impressively flat.
I got at least a few degree C improvement. Maybe around 5. Hard to determine without controlled testing.
@ Alik4041
you have to use less thermal paste because after lapping you will have shallower valleys and pits, hence the good reflection. remember the paste is only there to fill those tiny air gaps. i used AS5 and it says about 1 to 1 1/2 grain of rice in size. well i used about half of a grain of rice and got nice results, except when i tried mounting the heatsink the wrong way as an airflow experiment. upon lifting the heatsink i could see the AS5 had spread biassed to one side of the middle of the chip
follow the guide on the arctic silver website, the blob on the chip, pushing down and rotating will eliminate chances of air being trapped.
as for your temps, touch your heatsink with no fan blowing on it and see how warm it is. if its cool and the chip is 50 odd degrees then you have a contact issue. but if the temperature of the heatsink is fairly warm and so is the processor then contact should be good.
other possibility is that the cpu or heatsink is concave or convex. pull both out and put a stanley / razor or something deffinately flat across and see if there is a gap. another possibility is that if its in a tower with you, and being top heavy, when you have put it upright it has sagged and seperated a little by the laws of gravity. myself and others have combatted this issue with the use of zip ties off the case or PSU above to give it something to "hang" onto.
also i had to take my board out of the case when re-mounting because i wasnt satisfied i could do a good enough job whilst still installed - not enough room to work. also after pushing & rotating the heatsink down onto the chip i held it in place firmly and painstakenly put the screws in with one hand, unwilling to remove the pressure. i suppose ideally you would be better with a 2nd pair of hands to hold it once its on.
a few things to try, let us know how you get on ... also which method of lapping did you use?
[QUOTE=swaaye;2452908] blah blah QUOTE]
know what you mean. the thermal right's fins are closer together so less chance of digging in but still a pain. i wadded kitchen roll around the heatsink fins but ended up with 3 fingers on the top of the block. took a while to find right amount of pressure and right amount of speed but the heatpipers make it awkward to hold when you rotate.
some people have lapped in a straight line and get as good a finish. someone should get 3 of a particular heatsink and lap each differently; circular, straight & figure of 8 then post results. will be nice to know.
didnt think soQuote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
I lapped my Q6600/Tuniq Tower and got -10C drops across the board, definitely worth the 2 hours it took.
A few thoughts.
* Perhaps one reason temps also get better after lapping is copper is a better conductor than aluminum and the lapping gets rid of the AL. Funny, but my temps actually rise after a lap dance, but that may be an overshare.
* Overclocking doesn't void your warranty, utter nonsense. Not to mention, Intel was running a 5GHz+ overclocking demo by none other than XS owner FUGGER at IDF. Lapping would likely do it though. :ROTF:
* There are other TIM's than Arctic Silver 5 and Ceramique and some work better, like MX-2.
* If you use alcohol, use 91% or better. 70% is about 30% water and can rust metal. Don't believe me? Put a pair of cheap nail clippers in a cup of 70% isopropyl for a few days and see what happens.
* A nice thing to have on hand for cleaning off wayward TIM and any insulation materials (for those of you who chill water or phase change) is some nice spray-on contact cleaner. Works like a charm.
It's nickel actually. It's an awfully thin layer. It is there to prevent copper oxidation. Nickel is much worse at heat conduction than Aluminum even, apparently.
http://www.engineersedge.com/properties_of_metals.htm
I'd like to know what the solder they use to connect the heatspreader to the CPU is made up of. Lead sucks as a conductor.
Why wouldn't overclocking void your warranty? Of course it does. Whether or not they can tell you overclocked is the question. If they knew you did, they would never honor your warranty. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the chip had something like the ECU of a car, in that it records and measures various data. There is extra hardware in the CPU for debugging and testing.
Alcohol won't get paste out of the metal as well as a Xylene or Acetone cleaner. Or, even better, ArctiClean. I love that stuff. I'm more than happy to pay for a cleaner that smells like oranges and doesn't wreck havok on my hands or lungs, while also cleaning as well or better. I bought the big bottles of Articlean and they've lasted me years. Alcohol is useful for lighter hardware cleaning tho. Cuz it dries so fast and leaves no residue (other than that 9% of water for a bit). I have Articlean, Oops, and Isopropyl 91% in my "lab" lol. The Oops rarely gets use because it is so nasty.
though i read that mx-2 performed no better than AS5? thought i read it on these forums too by someone? spawne32 maybe?
Its possible, used to be done to Coppermine pentium 3's to get rid of the thin layer of blue plastic protecting the core.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
I wouldn't do it on any cpu now though, as the cores are really flat anyway, and its not worth doing anything to make them more suseptible to chipping.
I just got some MX-2 in today and put some on my lapped Q6600 / Scythe Ninja pair. The stuff is much thinner than AS5, that's for sure. I used ArcticSilver's application method, where you apply a line of paste across the CPU and put the cooler on top without spreading it yourself. The MX-2 spread out across most of the heatspreader in a nice thin, translucent layer when I took it off to see how it looked.
It is cooling better than AS5 was, too. I'm seeing 3-4 C cooler at least. The AS5 would probably improve over time though because I'm sure pressure on it thins it out over time. That's what I've seen in AS5 applications left untouched for months. But this stuff was nice and thin immediately.
Nonsense. First of all, the Intel warranty says nothing about overclocking. It does mention the vague misuse, neglect, etc. Nowhere in the Core 2 Quad warranty booklet I am holding does it say "DANGER! ONLY RUN AT SPEC SPEEDS AND VOLTAGE OR YOUR WARRANTY IS VIOLATED!"Quote:
Originally Posted by swaaye
Now, I'm not sure what law school you went to, but the one I went to made it pretty clear that contracts - especially provisions which affect your rights - must be very specific and clear, especially those in contracts of adhesion (pre-printed, offered in a take-it-or-leave-it basis), preferably written in big, bold letters. No such language exists. And contrary to what endless retards say on Internet forums, it is not up to Intel to say whether or not a warranty is violated. That is a legal matter. They can fight you on it, but ultimately that would be a decision for smalls claims court in Santa Clara, CA, to make (choice of forum clause in Intel's contract).
Secondly, there is the fact that Intel does everything short of bragging how overclockable it's chips are, offers its top chip with unlocked multipliers, and just invited Charles Fugger to overclock one to 5.3 GHz at their official developer conference (and you can freaking bet I'd be in court with that video, starring Charles Fugger and Intel playing on my laptop. Nice job BTW FUGGER, Jesus H 8.4 SuperPi I just noticed that, ha ha). Intel is actively marketing their Bad Axe boards to overclockers. Have you not seen the front page of this Web site?
Abandoning overclocking for many years Intel started to move forward for enthusiasts desires. Starting with Bad Axe and advancing with Bad Axe 2 overclocking community finally received many tweaking options featured motherboards. Finally as a token of appreciation for trustful and experienced overclockers and as final touch to fully insure the community with the demanded hardware and it's abilities Intel presented it's new generation of upcoming platform based on innovative X38 chipset and astonishing quad-core processor, built using the 45nm manufacturing process - the pioneer in this microelectronics segment presented by one of the famous overclockers and holder of the worldwide community forum - Charles Wirth a.k.a FUGGER. Short performance show shocked the public and community worldwide with fascinating 7 World Records in most popular benchmarks and achievements.
New tweaking utility allows control all major settings within Windows thus giving new, never seen before perspective of Intel motherboards.
And now Intel wants to get up and claim overclocking voids its CPU warranties? Yeah, just try that and see how fast 1) Intel gets hammered by class action suits and 2) AMD uses it against them in marketing.
Finally, there is the element of proof. How, again, would Intel prove this? You cannot just pass over proof. It is an essential element of all legal claims. And no, they do not have a black box in their chips. This urban legend has been thoroughly debunked, including in this thread. :rolleyes:
So there it is. That's my story and I'm sticking to it, here, and in my business law courses that I teach. :p:
Standard disclaimer, IAALBNYL (I Am A Lawyer But Not Your Lawyer). This is not legal advice, so do not rely on it. If I were your lawyer, you would have signed a RETAINER AGREEMENT and paid me a RETAINER FEE. You did not, so we are merely two guys bullsh_tting on the Internet. Nobody in their right mind would believe anything they read written by some anonymous guy on the Internet claiming to be a lawyer, let alone rely on it to their legal detriment. If you do this, despite this clear disclaimer, no jury would be stupid enough to reward you for such folly, should such unjustifiable reliance lead to your detriment. In other words, DO NOT RELY ON THIS AS LEGAL ADVICE BECAUSE IT IS NOT. After all, I am also a brain surgeon, an astronaut, and the President of the United States.
Search google for the reviews and see. MX-2 usually beats AS5 by ~1-4C. Even MX-1 beat AS5 in tests. See this post for more.
The reason I use Ceramique is FUGGER himself said it's what he uses for phase change. I meant to do a head-to-head AS/MX phase test, but I am still getting around to that one. ;) But as for air/water, the results speak for themselves in the reviews.
Quote:
Originally Posted by it_burns_when_i_pee
http://www.intel.com/support/process.../cs-020033.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by uclajd
http://www.intel.com/support/process.../CS-009862.htm
How about some choice quotes from their warranty:
Quote:
Intel warrants to the purchaser of the Product...if the Product is properly used and installed, it will be free from defects in material and workmanship, and will substantially conform to Intel’s publicly available specifications for a period of three (3) years...
That seems to cover their asses pretty well, I'd say. Of course if they can't tell how it was used, the only thing blocking a person from collecting on that warranty is whether they are willing to lie for it. So, a court will judge in my favor if I try to go after a brand new free Intel CPU while informing everyone I blasted my busted one with more volts, clock rate, and heat than it was specified for? Uh huh.Quote:
Further, this Limited Warranty does NOT cover:
- damage to the Product due to external causes, including accident, problems with electrical power, abnormal electrical, mechanical or environmental conditions, usage not in accordance with product instructions, misuse, neglect, alteration, repair, improper installation, or improper testing;
- any Product which has been modified or operated outside of Intel’s publicly available specifications or where the original identification markings (trademark or serial number) has been removed, altered or obliterated from the Product.
Until someone calls them up and gets the go ahead for a free replacement of a baked, overclocked, overvolted chip I'll stick to my belief that they aren't going to give me a new chip. Just because they want to attract overclockers to their product doesn't mean they're going to back them up with a free replacement.
Hell, AMD used to void warranties if they found Arctic Silver on the chip. They required the use of Shin Etsu or a thermal pad along with a stock cooler, I believe. That was years ago though.
http://www.xtremetek.com/info/index.php?id=14
Some companies are starting to officially say that you are allowed to overclock and retain the warranty, however.
classy.Quote:
Originally Posted by uclajd
Well, I guess your expert legal opinion carries the day. :rolleyes:
Did you not even listen? AMD cannot "void" a warranty, nor can any other contractor. Only a court can do that.
You want to not overclock your processor, that is of course your right. What you are doing on XS, I am less sure of. Bottom line, I teach contracts and this one DOES NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT OVERCLOCKING. And no, in a pre-printed form contract, Intel has not, in fact, covered their asses from a contractual standpoint. You don't want to test this, fine. But I read the same contract you did before I posted, and I stand by my opinion.
I just love people on the Internet who think they are experts on everything. A lawyer gives his opinion and you just had to come on and argue the law. Amazing. :rolleyes:
And you want to make personal attacks, take it to PM sparky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swaaye
So, I go to court and tell them that I pounded said fried CPU way out of spec. They are going to reward me with a free one? What exactly would motivate them to do that? What would entitle me to that nice replacement?
Even if the warranty is supposedly worthless to Intel, which I would say is rather strange to say the least, would my ability to go to court matter? Convince me that somehow I can get a free CPU after I knowingly cook the old one. How does that seem right?
Is this how you treat your supposed students too? Heh.Quote:
Originally Posted by uclajd
I've got much better things to do than try to convince you of something. It is obvious that you have no desire to learn anything new, and that you are more interested in winning your argument than arriving at the truth.
So I yield the floor to Swaaye, legal expert.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swaaye
Yeah, ok. From my end it seems more like you just want to be accepted as legal genius (as an anonymous poster, of course) and not questioned. Especially with each post informing me of my closed-minded retardation. I had no idea I was so unwilling to learn.Quote:
Originally Posted by uclajd
I just see it as unlikely that even if the warranty is useless to Intel that a court would let me have a new CPU after I knowingly used it improperly. Of course, I suppose what is proper usage is up for debate.
So, by what you say, warranties don't really exist for any purpose other than as a consumer scare tool? I can do whatever I want with a product as long as said use is not explicity forbidden within a contract. And if I'm willing to go to court over it after the company denies me, I can get a free replacement .
Take it to another thread and stop the hijacking :down:Quote:
Originally Posted by swaaye
Yeppo Moderator better remove off topic posts.... go PM lads and let us just know the final verdict...
I also thought ceramique was preferred over AS5 when applying thermal paste on a lapped CPU... correct me if I'm wrong lads
I think the Ceramique preference is for more extreme cooling situations. I remember reading that AS5's properties change when it is chilled to a point. Not exactly positive on that though.
Ceramique's performance is very close to AS5 so really you wouldn't lose much at all by just going with it. It's cheaper I believe, and you lose that electrical capacitance that scares some people.
i already had AS5 for when i applied mine. but upon building a machine i checked google to see if something at the time (beginning of the year) was better and there wasnt.recently i saw this MX stuff and googled it and the only recommendation i saw was a cheaper price tag for same performance as AS5. i cant speak from experience so i am left relying on reviews but even with reviews you have to take a pinch of salt sometimes because the "laws of averages" where someone will make a better fit than someone else. method of installing / slightly too much or too little paste etc
also in one review the authoer stated that he cleaned the surface with some toilet roll before applying a different paste for his testing. yeah thats good enough! (google sarcasm if you dont get me)
as for AS5 curing time .... on the last 2 machines i didnt notice any drops or increases of temps after the specified time. anyone else found that? not tried ceramique or know if AS5 performs poorly when below a certain temp. im reliant on online info for that.
Lapped my CPU+Heatsink with grid 400-600-800-1000-1200.
Temps before lapping :
[picture]
heatsink before lapping :
[picture]
Heatsink after lapping :
[picture]
Cpu before lapping :
[picture]
Cpu after 5min lapping :
[picture]
Cpu after grid400 :
[picture]
Cpu after lapping :
[picture]
Temps after lapping :
[picture]
looks good but would have thought you would have had a bit better temps since you have the TRUE
did you reduce the amount of paste on re-application? and whats the mounting like? loose, tight or in between?
Difference between core 0,1 and 2,3 are almost 10C, maby bad contact between core & ihs :(. I remounted the HS serveral times but it stays like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by it_burns_when_i_pee
The mounting is tight enough i think, i can move the heatsink a bit left or right still though. Maby i can try to put a penny between it for more pressure.
it looks more like 2 cores are being loaded, 2 are not, and are receiving residual heat from the other two. im assuming @ idle the temps are close to each other? otherwise ignore this post :)
i was meaning overall temps not individual cores
you got a pic of the internals of your machine? maybe improved airflow will help those temps a bit further?
Well, it's not exactly scientific testing methodology, but I just used some MX2 and found its thinness to be very beneficial to getting that super thin layer you want. It's cooling better than the last few applications of AS5, and I applied the pastes the same way each time (AS's line-of-paste across cores method) and always use Articlean. The MX2 squished out into a translucent layer whereas the AS5 was more an opague layer that didn't spread as well.
With AS5 I was seeing 70-72C on one of the dies. This was about the same as before I lapped, btw. With the MX2 it's holding at 66-67C. That die sure does run hotter than the other. Lapping didn't really help with that difference. I kinda suspect that one die has higher leakage power than the other... Could be more solder on one too, I guess. Who really knows....
I'll probably use MX2 from now on after getting this improvement and really liking its ease of application. It's cheaper too I believe.
AS5 may possibly work better if you spread it thinly yourself. But I've used up so much paste and pulled my heatsink on and off so many times in the past week that I'm a bit burned out. lol
have to ask, are you seeing that your paste has mushed out by lifting the heatsink after applying it?
the as5 squished out nicely for me - noticed after remounting the heatsink when i changed case layout.
your temps seem very high if you have lapped. im getting 25 celcius on idle @3.2ghz 1.4v ..... 44ish CPU load or 51 if in a game - extra heat contribution thanks to a large GPU heatsink next to the processor!!
Hmm...I can get 3.2 @ 1.300v :cool: I'm @ 3.6 right now w/ 1.45v. After I lapped, I got these temperatures. This is @ 3.2ghz 1.300v:Quote:
Originally Posted by it_burns_when_i_pee
Idle Unlapped - Idle for lapped and unlapped was unchanged
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...anUnlapped.jpg
Load Unlapped
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...anUnlapped.jpg
Load Lapped
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...lmanLapped.jpg
Oh and just for :banana::banana::banana::banana: and giggles I tried 3.8 but it wasn't stable.http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=248132
i havent tried my cpu at anything lower than 1.4 yet
i tried 400x9 and it loaded windows but wasnt stable :(
someone said i might want to drop FSB voltage to try x9 multiplier. on the weekend im going to try dropping the cpu voltage and see if its stable at 8x multiplier.
still new to the overclocking of C2D, am i right in thinking if i go 9x 400 i might wanna try upping CPU voltage?
Yeah I've checked a few times. The AS5 spread out, but not nearly as well as the MX2 does. Currently application is the best temps I've seen yet out of this setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by it_burns_when_i_pee
When I Prime 3.5 GHz at about 1.36v (measured by Everest) 1.45v BIOS I see almost 80 C on one of the cores. There can be about a 10C difference between cores. This hasn't changed with lapping or different paste. Primeing at 3.2 GHz 1.23v (Everest) 1.325v BIOS or so, one will sit at around 69C while the other is at 63C. This is with Prime95 25.x running small FFT (really bakes like nothing else lol). When idle at 3.2 GHz / 1.23v, I see 26C or so on that strange non-core temp reading while the cores themselves are at 33-35C or so.
I'm recalling these readings from memory cuz I'm at work :). They should be close tho.
This board has some crazy Vdroop combined with maybe poor voltage readings (no way lol). When I set 1.325v in BIOS, I get 1.23-1.24 at load in Windows. To get up to a 1.4v reading, I have to run about 1.5v in the BIOS.
Here it is:Quote:
Originally Posted by annaconda
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3...2977fr7.th.jpg
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7...2975tz9.th.jpg
I improved the thermalright mounting even more, i put a washer under the "X" bracket. Now there is more pressure on the CPU.Quote:
Originally Posted by it_burns_when_i_pee
I just tested an 30min OCCT test 3250mhz @ 1.27v and it passed. temp on warmest core didnt went higher then 57C. This b3 is not a sucky clocker though ;p
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/416...occtry9.th.jpg
I've considered chopping off the pathetic plastic Intel-style mounting pins on the Scythe Ninja Plus and using bolts. But it wouldn't be possible to get the cooler off without taking the mobo out if I did that. Ick... And there's no backplate anyway so pressure increase would be limited.
I'm sure the fairly low pressure is why the AS5 doesn't spread well.
lapping my q6600 made 0 difference...
lapping my e6600 made 0 difference...
in my experience.. lapping doesn't work
same here, no difference after my lap.Quote:
Originally Posted by the highlander
i've had bad results after lapping too. saw a temperature increase but it was because i didnt mount it properly. upon removing the heatsink i saw the paste had spread unevenly to one side. re-applied properly i saw excellent results.
the as5 spread out fine for me. after putting half the recommended thermal paste on arctic silvers website, i positioned the heatsink on top, pressed down firmly with a fair amount of pressure rotating just a few degrees 2 or 3 times. not wanting it to pop up and allow air in, i kept the pressure on the top of the heatsink and screwed it in place.
oh and if you want the best chances / ability to mount it properly, remove the board from the case, its small compromise
Lapping had close to 0 difference for me on idle. But for load temps, my 4 cores were all within the same range as the other (check above post).
Question: So when I lapp my CPU, does it make sense to lapp the heatsink as well?
Greetz
Ganzir
Definitely, except if your heatsink is already flat and the surface has no scratch.Quote:
Originally Posted by ganzir
even if its flat a smoother surface has lets pits and valleys (the microscopic imperfections)
all these "holes" allow air to be trapped, even though are very small, it all adds up in preventing the best possible heat transferrence. the idea of thermal paste is to fill these gaps. anything is better at conducting heat than air but the thermal paste's properties is the reason it is so widely used.
but remember if you have a smooth finish you will need less paste
Working on my big project a watercooled SLR system. Going all out, decided to lap by CPU. Was going to be smart, just get it flat don't worry about shine. Was going so well I saw the shine coming, got excited, was now into the shine. Must be careful, never did this before. Got the shine! Clean up and re-install my CPU ready to see that 10C drop in temps. ......machine would not boot. Clear cmos etc, etc still no boot. What is this. Take CPU out, inspect CPU .. something on pins, clean, clean and clean. Re-install CPU, no boot, try try and try no boot. Remove CPU inspect, clean, re-install -no boot. Money money money, time to check ebay for new CPU. Went to bed. Next day inspect CPU, clean, install no boot. Make bid on eBay. Inspect with microscope, more cleaning needed. Install ---BOOT. Am I happy. Still winning bid on ebay. Temps look good, now running ORTHOS 22 minutes Core Temp reading 35C on air. Uguru (Abit) reading 45C. Good work but ah the sweat and tears.
I'm glad you finished it with a good ending. I was gonna be crying for you if it didn't :p:
Just got outbid on the new CPU that I no longer need. Someone paying too much.
I lapped my CPU and installed a D-Tek Fuzion (from a regular Apogee) and my temps improved a little bit, but now I can't even come close to the overclock I had before. Any ideas???
I did notice that the mounting hardware for my D-Tek fuzion seems to be bowing my motherboard a little bit, do you think a backplate would help? I do beleive im getting a good spread cause when I remove the block, I can remove the retention plate and the block actually stays attached, a little twist and it comes off.
I did remove the NB/SB heatpipe to clean the stock putty and apply AS5. temps went down about 3 deg there. I honestly don't think that's the issue though.
@ deathspine - nightmare with the cpu not firing, care must be exercised at all times, glad it was sorted (and your not forced to buy another cpu). also those are excellent temps for 3.6ghz, would love to get mine upto 400x9 but it's not stable. i was getting 19 degrees idle @ stock and 25 @ 3.2ghz but your load temps there are better than mine and your running 400mhz faster. im jealous!
@ laydback - back plate should help but i have no idea why its not clocking anymore. when i took my cpu out the bios settings reverted to defaults because it claimed i put a new processor in!! perhaps the same has happened with you and your overlooking a setting? hopefully thats all it is