Show us some overclock KTE :woot:
Waiting for your result
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Show us some overclock KTE :woot:
Waiting for your result
Darn... mine is on it's way...Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
http://www.xcpus.com/gallery/d/5151-2/9850.png
Looks like yours was packaged in week 10. When can we expect clocking results?
I'm anxious to see what KTE does with his new lab rat. :P
I picked mine up same day as Tony (we were in the same town ;)) but I've had tons of problems and been pulling my hair out over them.
I'll explain fully later but let me make one thing clear:
My old Phenoms did NOT die! It was a MB/BIOS or less likely, a coldboot problem
When I got my last 9600BE I tested it in my 790FX/780G/770 boards. All three gave me C1 error (memory initialization). It was brand new.
The BIOS I use is P0J and it defaults to 800 RAM, so it wasn't 1066 mode problems.
3 PSUs, two brand new, they weren't the problem nor the rails, nor temperature.
When I got the new 9850, I made sure to test in a working DFI 790FX at my uncles firm. A pain to borrow it off someone, but I wanted to make sure it works fine - booted first time, primed 5mins fine, job done.
Came home, tried all 3 boards I had (MSI 790FX, Abit 770, GBT 780G), all 3 did not boot 9850, same C1 problem. :mad:
Make note: other people may experience this problem -it ONLY occurs if you reset CMOS or shutdown and leave it off to, well, become cold :shrug:
So how did I resolve it?
I just left it on, and let it restart on and on for 2 days. Yesterday night late it started up all by itself.
I can't oc, because if I do it without flashing a new better BIOS, and the oc fails -> clear CMOS, it will very likely not start up for another 2 or more days.
I have to go off, am very busy elsewhere, but let me say it is definitely much better than the B2 in terms of max speed. 2900MHz benched stock voltage however it was not stable. 2800 was rock stable though.
Power draw is higher than an equivalent clocked 9600BE B2 at the same voltage, much higher. They've not just increased voltage but increased current.
I haven't got a heatsink on the CPU yet so can't oc, sorry :p:
Snapped the AM2 mount for HSF and sliced my full finger in a 152CFM Delta - just waiting to get my Xigmatek + Delta on here, which is in a different town :D
CPUZ has problems, it isn't validating again for some odd reason :confused: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=340474
Ah, it only validates upto 14x multi: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=340468
4th try, it validated 2900: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=340489 :rolleyes:
Many tools seem buggy with 9850. Only increased multi yet, not even tried 3000/NB/HT/RAM.
BIOS, 3200 no HSF 1.47v gets stuck at Windows logon.
Stock CPU VID 1.300
Stock CPU Volts 1.296/1.288
Stock NB VID 1.300
Stock NB Volts 1.296/1.288
Stock CPU Speed 2500
Stock CPU Multi 12.5x
Stock HT Speed 200
Stock NB/HT Speed 2000
Some screenshots (I have not tried much, only had a few minutes uptime) and some 2500/2600 comparisons with old 9600 and 9600 BE on the same EVEREST version (no tweak, just normal).
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/121/stockno3.png
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8420/2800nv8.png
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4982/29002am6.png
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8489/2600evlv9.png
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/8733/evmemlz2.png
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/2597/evwrkl5.png
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/8704/evcopul1.png
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/5270/evlatzx5.png
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/738/evcpuzw7.png
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1227/evphotodc3.png
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3092/evzlibag5.png
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/2711/evaesbx0.png
I'll push it much later - have too much to sort out. For reference, this is what my last 9600 BE did max stable and it was my fully tweaked 24/7 setting idling less than 3W DC for CPU=>
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3830/4000625om3.png
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/4...5871225lv3.png
This time around, I'm going to start off by undervolting at stock speed rather than the other way ;)
BTW its a hot chip, you'll need good cooling for it (under load) but you should know that by its 125W heat output rating. 6400 was a hot chip too. I suspect all air oc's will be limited by cooling, water should do a little better. The Tctl degrees it idles at 2600 stock volts is 14C more than my 9600BE did at 2691 1.352v with stock HSF lying on it (not clamped, but still on).
Very cool, thanks KTE a lot.
Thanks for the info KTE. I just ordered one too! :D
Hopefully I'll be as lucky as you and Tony...
Looks like once you figure out your MB/Bios problems you may be able to get similar results in the 3+Ghz range.
As for your problems, If anyone can figure it out, I'm sure you can! :up:
Nice to know your chips didn't die, you had me a little concerned.. :p:
Keep us posted...
This is just excellent - check this out =>
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4...nqpowerug1.png
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1...tspowerwn9.png
What more could you want from a tool :eek:
Franck, excellent work, thank you! :up:
Guys, you're welcome. I'm only trying to report bare facts and happenings as they occur.. so we can figure things out altogether. There are enough children after spreading FUD about AMD/Phenom at the first minutest chance, so we have to ignore them and just work things out to see facts. Things are just very confusing, even for me. Just look at how long and how many different setups its taking me to work things out.
I have not recommended Phenom before when asked - but this chip is definitely recommendation worthy IMHO. Need much time yet though.
As for the Pi guys, I'll give you some Pi times in a little while despite me being awful at it ;)
Now the tweaking starts :yepp:
errrr..... where is the 3GHz+ clock? :)
It's coming... have faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by tictac
LOL, who said anything about 3G? :p:
Sorry Cutie, I thought you knew this is the 2GHz zone :cool:
In case you missed my inference... 3GHz is not hard to screen even at stock volts.
Let me fire up AOD.. one sec.
There ya go.
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1607/3000og8.png
Sorry too busy with other things yet, I'm sure many more will be eager to present many results but I'm going to take my time, learn and tweak things before presenting. Results will come... maybe by next April or so :p: (jk)
Will need time.
Same here 2.8GHz are rock solid on stock voltages.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
:yepp: Seems to be the first sign for too low CPU voltage if takes forever to boot windows or if it's stuck on logon. Already had it a few times in the >2.8GHz range.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Looking at our last 3GHz screeny it may be an os problem.
Did this last time it was quite time intensive. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Thanks for pointing on this, have my monitoring stuff on laptop so i can't use that feature. HWMonitor needs a logging feature.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Seriously, no doubt!Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
Yeah my main problem is ATi GPU drivers. I have them installed. If I go high volts they corrupt and I can't clear them (like now :().
I just tried throwing VID high, could screen 3100=>
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6844/3100ey5.png
But when I put it back 2500 and just kept it at 1.55VID, ATi drivers BSoD within 2 minutes.
so is bios 1.13 able to run the 9850? thinking on ordering from the egg shortly :D
nice SS's btw....
I think I should be able to get 2.9 to 3G fully stable here, as in daily use. That's what my aim is anyway. But voltage/heat/wattage does pump up very quickly after 2850. I'm really not bothered about max MHz, go LN2 and phase if you want to see that or you never will. ;)
I'm trying to tweak CnQ and MSRs - they're not the same as B2 ones. :confused:
In my tinkering I have ran 2G NB at 1.050VID already without problems.
I have been running 1.225VID 1.201v 2600MHz and not had any trouble yet [ATM].
Just to clarify what you see in the above HWMonitor screenshots is:
First you have individual voltages. All are higher than real DMM measurements (real is tuned to output 12v/5v/3.3v exact idle).
Then you have DC wattages for each rail from the source. Apart from "peaks" and 3.3v over 10A, they are all extremely close to accurate. In the total DC Wattages/Amps:-
Look at 12V1, that's the +12V CPU rail only.
12V2 does not exist there, it is not linked up, and HWMon is just doubling the 12V1 over [cancel that out - P-Tuner doesn't pick it up either]
12V3 and 12V4 are both combined to give the above 12V4 reading.
CnQ
So when you see 25.3W 12V1, then that is the power Phenom 9850 BE was pulling at the stock CnQ MHz/Volts. Just to correct it, the actual wattage was 23.52W DC without factoring in VRM losses, that are near the 50-60% region for this board at such current.
System AC wattage was 110W.
Stock no CnQ
Same with when you see 45.96W, just that it was the power being drawn at 2600/1.296v CPU - 2000/1.296v NB setting. Just to correct it, actual wattage was 44.76W DC without factoring in VRM losses, that are near the 60-68% region for this board at such current.
System AC wattage was 123W.
CPU-Z is broken with B3 - many combinations are not validating. Just tried present 200x11.5 2300 setting, its rejected although real. So is 2400, 2200, basically everything but an odd one. We'll have Franck take a look at it.
Jon I'm on P0J, like I said I haven't flashed any other BIOS yet, if I did, I may not get another startup for many days, so I'm delaying it. ;)
Are there any specific things that you want me to try with the Phenom under phase? Or just how it handles htt clocking and such? I'd test the difference between air and vapo, but the only other AM2 mainboard I have running is my crosshair, and I'm not sure I'd want to put it in that to compare because of the difference in bandwidth.
Check this link out guys, it has all the hardware tested and verified on Plat v1: http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?f...&cat3_no=#menu
Oldguy, there's a lot to check out =>
RAM clocking
IMC clocking
HT Ref/Link clocking
Lowest stable
Highest stable
Best Multi
Max benchable
Perf. Scaling
Coldbug
Volts for plus 3G stable
And then compare to if any of it makes any gain over air and water ;)
Maybe they actually scale with voltage and cooling :confused: - even though this is obviously not top bin, top bin is 2 bins above, this is the same bin as what they had in Barcelona B2 set for Xmas release in server world which was canceled when the bug was found and lower than the 9900 they had, but still, it is best bin launched yet so good to test where this arch is going.
If ati drivers=pain
try Omega (think it's 7.12 based) and or Atitraytools,don't rush the phenomenal
there stretch the pleasure;)
What is your option on the 9750?
Also are you going to try for 1.13 bios and check for idle freeze?
Yeah SocketMan I'm going to wait because MSI said they'll give me a preliminary NB option BIOS and then install them, thanks. ;)
Jon :confused:
Did you mean "opinion" instead of "option"?
I'll try 1.13 when I pick up Xig, can't for now but... I don't understand your first qs :D
I've achieved my first goal: CnQ tweak for daily use.
Needless to say, this chip definitely pulls more amps than the previous ones. Less voltage, lower MHz, CnQ, it is idling 20W AC more with the same PSU.
Anyway, this is what I was after -> the chip is purely a tweakers chip :up:
Idle (CnQ): 14.88W DC (not-incl. at least 50% lost in VRM conversion efficiency)
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1025/cnqpowerrd0.png
Idle Full Speed: 43.64W DC (not-incl. at least 40% lost in VRM conversion efficiency)
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/5...nqpowerng7.png
CB10 at 2800MHz
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6...00cbmd1.th.png
Sorry fellas incl. those I'm conversing with through PMs and those I owe some help to, I'm off, very tired today and been extremely busy too, so excuse me :yawn:
KTE: is it good result to get 1708 kt/s in winrar bench multithreading on cpu stock and mems on 1:2.66 divider cpu : phenom 9500 i was kinda stunned :D
mem timings 5-5-5-15-30-2t @ 2.1v bios version 1.40
Also ordered 9850 BE... i really hope... that iw will be good one if not ... have to buy second one.
yea sry opinion on the 9750 and have you do any idle testing to see if these are unstable at idle like the b2s where?
So that means you want me to put it in the crosshair so I can get a prelim for how well it overclocks and such? I can do that as long as there is a bios to support the B3's. Too bad that system only has a 7300LE in it...
Sounds like you some DFI love Tye;)
Also what would be a safe "guess" for stable expected OC from New B3?
Stop teasing us... show us that 3.5+Ghz clock :DQuote:
Originally Posted by KTE
@KTE Could you please test and see if there are any stability issues in x64 vista and if can clock as high in it as 32 bit version.
Hey Tye is the B3 Revision still get the Vista TLB Patch enabled?
I am curious to know how all of this is going to get implemented or corrected now that B3 Revision is out?
Just messed about with it, found some time. As you know I like to keep a track record of every time I mess about with it, I write notes in a TXT file to compare later.
WISE: in corporations these are a set of applications referring to Word processing, Internet, Spreadsheet and Email but cover all the majority of regular system usages.
Issues
*One of the biggest issues with Phenom 65nm B2 and Intel 45nm C0 is degradation, how, what, after how long and how to avoid or contain it.
*The second is low volts bench/screens but very high volts for real stability.
*The third is to avoid WISE stability problems.
*The fourth is how to have a perfectly stable system for our needs, in all tasks we will do not just FPU stability.
*The fifth is x64 stability and oc.
*The sixth is stability with 2x2GB and 4x2GB.
*The seventh is C1 errors at boot.
*The last being, does it respond to voltage after 1.39v? (unlike B2)
Load Stability Test
14x 200 2.8G is perfectly fine stock volts (1.296/1.288v idle - 1.276v load)
14.5x 200 2.9G is perfectly fine only for benches stock volts
15x 200 3G fails load stability stock volts outright
Idle+Load 24/7 Stability
2.8G was not stable - it froze after 16 hours during WISE. I jumped MHz.
2.9G was no go at 1.4v real, fails WISE stability after 8 hours although can bench easily.
1.4v 2.9G did not even boot with CnQ turned on. Disabled it then.
I jumped to 3G, that's my ultimate aim to see if B3 can get 3G stable and what limits it. Glad to say, 3G is within realms quite easily, mine is running smooth at 200 x 15 3000, benched it, primed it only 35 mins and am mainly running the WISE test now [256mins into it - 2/3 days is the test range for it].
BUT there's a caveat =>
After 2.8G you suddenly have to jump up volts very high to get any stability. It might seem no go to those who get whimpy after 1.4v :p: AMD rates the CPU max 1.55v within range.
3.00G Stability
I tried every boot voltage, even 1.3v booted 3G but was not stable. I then just jumped to 1.558v BIOS, which gave me 1.592v Windows and 1.584v real. I then worked my way down. Lower limit was found, 1.540v idle will not be stable, will bench easy but fail WISE stability.
I have managed a stable setting. ATM it requires 1.552v idle and 1.528v load for perfect [so far] stability. This looks too far for many though. I have mentioned already, this is a hot and power hog chip esp. with volts. Here's an example:-
3G 1.6v idle was 136W DC just the CPU.
3G 1.564v load was 267W DC just the CPU. :D
On load, 84C at max fanspeed is easily reached! [cooler is not clamped down and without TIM, bear in mind]
3G 1.552v idle is 97W DC for CPU, which is what I'm at now. I have tried enabling CnQ and am successfully running it right now at 400MHz 0.7v with 3000MHz 1.552v being the load setting. CnQ gives me 12W DC idle CPU power.
Basically, this is an Opty 165 all over again. You will get 1.45-1.58v 3G and more fully stable but you will need a good cooler. ATM I am severely limited by cooling, for water, this chip should get 2.9-3.2G stable IMHO. I have booted 3300 max at 1.592v but it is too much for my cooling [yet] and it freezes on saving CVF file or IMG file from CPUZ. Installed the new AOD, it crashes my system pretty quickly which is worse than the previous one. :(
Here's what I'm testing ATM [setting right now]:-
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/4291/3000voltsmw1.png
Some [totally unoptimized] 3G benches FYI:-
Everest MEM/Cache
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2595/ev3gqv3.th.png
2k6
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4...3000cm3.th.png
wPrime 32M
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9...323gfu8.th.png
PiFast (Single threaded)
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/5...st3gha2.th.png
Fritz
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9...tz3gml1.th.png
NuclearusMC
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5629/nc3gkr8.th.png
Cinebench 10 2800, 2900 and 3000
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/4...00cbqh1.th.png http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8631/2900cbtp8.th.png http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/9...00cbub5.th.png
SuperPi depends highly on MEM and with this, yet, I can't oc MEM/NB, so it'll have to wait. I'm expecting around 24.6s 1M at 3000MHz, its very possible to get 26s flat though.
Sandra MEM/Cache linear latencies I've checked out only at 2800.
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7060/latbp8.png
The 1ns is L1 cache, the 4ns is L2 cache, the 8ns is L3 cache and after it is DRAM access.
Proper benches, i.e. tweaked will be later. Have to work this thing out first. ;)
On a 9500? Not sure, it isn't for 9600 though. 9600s stock 5-5-5-18 1066 can do 1872KB/s without optimizations with a decent BIOS (For MSI 113 will do that). Many BIOS kill MEM performance though.Quote:
Originally Posted by KeZzZu
Depends how you go about it and what you expect. I wouldn't base any hopes on what Tony showed, that is for water and above only.Quote:
Also ordered 9850 BE... i really hope... that iw will be good one if not ... have to buy second one.
I've answered that above now and about 9750, no idea. I've not seen it myself first hand nor tried it and until I get to try 2 or more, I could never say. It may be just like 9600 B2 was, many good and many not so good.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
Don't have to but trying air and then vapo would be good enough for all :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy932
If I go DFI, it has poor MEM oc/stability and I value that quite a lot :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Esau
I'm running 2x1GiB 1066 5-5-5-15-11 75ns tRFC @ 2.05v with MSI stable ;)
2.7 to 2.8G stock HSF, 2.8G to 3G 3rd party air, 2.8 to 3.2G water is my estimate on 32bit systems.Quote:
Also what would be a safe "guess" for stable expected OC from New B3?
Hehe, kinda like no way on this cooling. I can POST and be in BIOS at 3500 though which is far better than B2 :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by tictac
Vista SP1 kills B2 MEM perf but nope, patch is applied based on CPU stepping code.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Esau
Let me try and ascertain how stable 3G is in XP/Ubuntu 32b and then I'll move over to 64b systems to check the same settings ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaivan
This might help.
It's not Tony's "water park workshop", but should keep the Phenom reasonably cool.
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=5142
:yepp: froze after 2hrs here 1.325V is what i use atm.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Behaved unstable here at 1.4V. Prime ran fine for a few minutes but sandra prozessor arithmetic benchmark froze the machine even at 1.425.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Hmm on the DFI mobo I can set CnQ and voltages to Auto and use a cpu multi suitable for stock voltage and the given ref HT.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Voltages and he multi can be modified via msr registers then.
The PC must be in Desktop mode however if ref HT x stock CPU multi exceeds the max the CPU can handle at stock volts.
For the record you use the wattages from everest odin readings?Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Always good for a platform comparison. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Well, I just put my 9600 into my crosshair again. I found the nb voltage option that I wasn't using before. Its running 260x11.5 1.3v cpu, 1.35v nb. And to my liking, nb voltage maxes at 1.575. I'll try and get a 3.1ghz shot if I can, but I dunno because of how this cpu hates extra vcore.
Firstly just to clarify mine is not a cherry, its actually a poor one compared to others I know of and have seen. Its more like the average, good ones will do what you see Tony's doing and more. I've just asked about the 3 others at uncles apart from this, all 3 are better than mine. :shakes:
Stability
3.00GHz failed WISE stability after +7 hours at 1.552v idle :mad:
Currently testing this at 1.512v idle / 1.488v load.
Yes DAMMIT 9850 definitely still has the perfectly stable load tested-unstable idle and WISE tested problem at the high end! :(
EDIT 1/2/3/4/5/6: system just froze during WISE testing for 3055 [35mins], 3000 [432mins], 2990 [86mins], 2975 [25mins], 2915 [14mins], 2860 [9mins] and 2780 [11mins]. Somethings wrong here, I've had 2.9G 1.45v WISE and load stable earlier.. only thing higher now is HT/NB... back to stock HT/NB testings :rolleyes:
EDIT 7: No, 2800 didn't fail with WISE and load testing at 1.376v load. That certainly points to HT or NB causing the freezing - this is one good thing about unlocked multi, you have many ways to approach a problem and thus, figure it out ;)
Also I'm currently testing a setting just to check but.. Phenom B2 and B3 has a problem with 1066 mode oc. Stability in this mode is very hard past stock 1066 [this looks like the cause of instability to me - my perfectly fine setting I tested in everything but when I changed from 800 mode to 1066, it crashed during WISE although it was far under bench/MEM limit]
-Max CPU P95/load stable is 3055MHz [furthest tested - 3100 is definitely not] but it will fail WISE stability.
-Max MEM benchable is 638MHz but max stable is 613MHz so far. 9600BE had a 626MHz limit = all on stock MEM volts of 2.2v.
-Max NB stable at stock volts is 2380MHz, nothing more. Same with HT, 2380MHz.
Safe Temperatures
Tested HTC and THERMTRIP temperatures. People are confused about these values but the temp. values you see in EVEREST/AOD/CoreTemp/HWMon are all coming from a CPU register and the maximum Tcontrol_max value is calibrated to the same value as the real Tcase_max for this CPU - which is independently monitored and calibrated within the Thermal Control Circuitry (TCC). Thus, when Tctl_max is reached, Tcase_max is reached, TCC detects this and activates HTC/THERMTRIP to either throttle CPU or shut it down.
Through tests I found Tctl_max is a value in between 84 to 90C in software. Anything above 84C starts erroring but 86C does not shut down. A degrees value very close to it, soon after but before 90C is the shut down max temp. Thus keep it below 75C full loads and you're fine and within CPU stability range :)
Performance and Tweaks
Just messing around, B3 scored 2590 Single CPU in CB10 at 2990 with tweaks [beat the 3G score above].
WinRAR is 2478KB/s at 3000CPU 240HT 2400NB 638MEM. MEM/Cache b/w and other benches at similar settings can be seen here=>
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8194/2937yg3.png
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6082/2975oh2.png
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/4175/2990ms5.png
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5...2250600ds7.png
http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/3028/470t1ds8.png
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/4843/480lr9.png
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/803/cm2990uf5.png
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/4014/3ggz2.png
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/35/2990sfn8.th.png http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9...90s1jw4.th.png http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/6...90s2pe4.th.png
Sandra Multi-core b/w has always been very weak for Phenom :shrug:
2k6 3000 vs 2990 tweaked
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/9...3000ef4.th.png vs http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/1...2990dn0.th.png
Updated EVEREST scores
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/3540/rehj7.png
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3393/wrkm6.png
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/7006/copj9.png
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/5783/latie4.png
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/7885/qutj4.png
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5225/phet8.png
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9706/zlqc3.png
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/9995/aesem4.png
I'm not going to push it yet, validator has a bug that its rejecting many different legitimate CPUs of users outright. Once its fixed by Sam/Franck, I'll go into it like a train, I know it wants it, I can hear it scream.... give me 1.7v.... :p:
Thanks man but I already have wc if I wanted it - I didn't want to test Phenom for wc, but air, since I'm not keeping it but just playing with it for others to see and help them work it out and these are definitely just budget chips for the masses ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SocketMan
I'm going back to basics to sort the problems out. Testing 200x14 2800 at 1.4v idle / 1.376v load ATM. You have an advantage, your BIOS are far better for bootup oc with all volts and multis, we don't have that on this board so things are a lot harder to work with and oc. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
Last time, 1.45v was what I needed for 200x14.5 2900 stability. My main aim isn't bench stability though, load stability has been a lot easier on my Phenoms than WISE stability :yepp:Quote:
Behaved unstable here at 1.4V. Prime ran fine for a few minutes but sandra prozessor arithmetic benchmark froze the machine even at 1.425.
By the looks of it, your board changes VIDs where voltages should be changed. The MSI can do CnQ at any voltage/MHz [as long as its stable] and yep, thanks to Sams tool, tweaking is far far far easier - I just apply everything through it :)Quote:
Hmm on the DFI mobo I can set CnQ and voltages to Auto and use a cpu multi suitable for stock voltage and the given ref HT.
Voltages and he multi can be modified via msr registers then.
The PC must be in Desktop mode however if ref HT x stock CPU multi exceeds the max the CPU can handle at stock volts.
Calibrated Odin current readings with clamp ammeter, so check those, then AC watt meter and DMM for volts, system VAC and then work out power. Have traced each rail back, so I know which rail is powering which component to distinguish between all.Quote:
For the record you use the wattages from everest odin readings?
Yup, been cross-checking with yours to see if any of my settings were unstable [when unstable, there will be a performance drop] :up:Quote:
Always good for a platform comparison. :up:
Have you tried the 2200 800 comparison we did before yet?
Since we already have B2 perf. known, would be good to add B3 perf. to it too :yepp:
I'll add Abit 770 and GBT 780G scores to it soon aswell, need to flash a new BIOS on them before that or they don't boot Phenom B3.
So you can run this setting daily without problems or is it just bench/load stable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy932
Very good for a 9600 though.
This cpu never had a problem with being idle stable. The BE I have is the only one to ever show problems with that, but it was because it had started to deteriorate. Max boot so far was 268x11.5, not at all stable though. Right now I'm doing everest stability at 262x11.5 with 1.34v cpu and 1.35v nb. I need a 790fx board or 780a board with the tweakability of my crosshair, I miss the memory bandwidth.
Edit: And the 9600 was previously bench stable at 266x11.5 for wprime32m and superpi1m, 264 was where I did other benches I think.
I want my steak medium please. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by KTE
CPU starts to behave odd for a while after too much heat and voltage lovin. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Benched 2.8GHz/2.0GHz 1066-5-5-5-16-18 today. I get better results with 5-5-5-16-18 than with 5-5-5-15-11 btw also the ram needs ~2.05V now. :)
Stability testing 2.8GHz/2.0GHz at 1.3125V/1.285V over night, will bench that tomorrow and go for 2.8/2.4 then.
Will post a summary of benchmarks results for 2.8 at different NB speeds then.
After that ill go for 3GHz ref HT wise.
Slammed mode, VID's are not used only p-state register modification works. Whithout that VID's are reported as stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
I'm new to those mesurements. Saw that 12V1 is for the cpu only. I guess i can verify at least the volts with a DMM on the rails?Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Those where all ran in unganged mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Expecting the GBT 780G here also. Have not yet tried the 2200 800 comparison but i expect a slight performance drop due to the hardware tlb workaround.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
ΚΤΕ i suppose you are going to OC the Phenom on the 780G? Im really curious how accurate this Anandtech article is. It seems really strange to me. BTW how do you manipulate CnQ settings in windows. Is there a special tool that allows it?Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
Guys does the latest version of CoreTemp work accurately with Phenom or no please?
So far the max htt has been 268. I think the HT might need more voltage, but I haven't tried anything with it yet because I put the xp-90c on to get the load temps back down. I should really get around to buying a quieter cooler because the vantec tornado is just deafening...
Issues.. again
ID: idle
LD: load
2900MHz... I cannot get it WISE stable from 1.519v ID to 1.45v ID - anymore. It will freeze after 3 to 18 hours uptime. It is fully bench/load stable at 1.45v ID though, make no doubt, just like you saw with B2 - but for WISE, same problem as B2 :( The way I see it since the beginning is the boards with weak PWM area are the ones giving this problem. We need to approach this with facts, appropriate knowledge and using a grounded mind.
The ASUS/DFI/Sapphire/GBT DQ6 790FX have the best PWM area out of these boards, which can handle larger power draw with far more stability and thus, naturally, more higher watt oc is possible this way - on all boards, you have to cool the PWM area active if you want to oc and throw in +150W power through them to the CPU, which you can easily draw with an oc'd Phenom.
Another thing, you have to verify your PSU has enough juice on the rails (Amps), holding good loadline voltage under these loads, or it'll fail outright at POST.
Compare the Intel boards' PWM area with AMD boards' PWM area; most Intel P35 budget and mainstream boards I've come across have much better PWM area than the AMD 790FX/790X budget boards have been given, and far better than most 770/780 boards have. Why?
The R25 inductors on the MSI board are very weak for oc 125W CPUs - R80 is what you want for good oc. The limit of this 4+1 phase will be very close to 200W, thus you're restricted to oc. All the SMD Inductors are rated for an inductance at a certain frequency, ambient conditions and maximum Adc (amps). The ones on the MSI board seem very likely to be rated at 40Adc max at 25C with 0.18uH inductance at 100kHz. The inductors also have a max amperage beyond which they will begin degrading and break down. As you increase temperature above 25C, the maximum amps they ca handle will decrease and so will their efficiency.
All lower and cheaper chipset boards, i.e. 790X/790GX/780G/770 will on the majority have a weaker PWM design than their 790FX counterparts, so they will:-
a) overheat much with 125W CPU if they support them
b) will not be able to handle much more than 150W even if that with 3+1 phase, any lower will have major trouble not burning if not v.high quality inductors
c) will be under maximum stress and degrade quickly
d) have a high risk of catching fire and burning. The key to limit this is volts, the current with Phenoms is set after a cold reset at bootup by the CPU and you can access that value looking through PVI codes and MSRs and hence work out what power your CPU can pull at max to stay below the threshold. :yepp:
Volts
Don't freak out at my volts, this board has huge vDroop at high volts. It is much less at lower volts. Like I said, I'm stuck on a bad BIOS for oc, volts are limited. This is how the VCore works out on this board:-
1.519v idle is 1.456v load
1.480v idle is 1.424v load [CPU pulls 203W DC at 2.9G this setting]
1.464v idle is 1.416v load
1.456v idle is 1.416v load
I could not get anything above 2.8G WISE stable yet. Load/bench stable I have had upto 3055MHz. I don't know how to tackle this but will first have to try another stronger PWM board to check since its reacting like the B2s :shrug:
CPU does not like voltage for 100% WISE stability, loves it for benching though. Around 1.424v idle / 1.376v load seems to be the WISE full stability limit here. ATM I'm not touching RAM or NB, just CPU and I'm testing how stable 2.8G is.
BTW, I've heard conjectures everywhere for a while about Phenom being lower 3D Mark'06 perf. than X2 6400 and so on, well no, it's not and has never been. Even a 4500MHz Wolfdale cannot beat a 2990MHz Phenom in 2k6 CPU. Compare the two: 2990 CPU vs 4500 CPU
Problem why I can't increase HT Ref is due to being stuck at 10x NB multi with no NB multi or NB volts option in BIOS. Over 238MHz HT / 2380HTL / 2380NB is not possible before crashing at stock volts boot, so I'm limited until I change BIOS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy932
Which PSU are you testing it with? Check your rails, at 2.9G 1.424v full load, I was at 16.1A draw from the CPU 12V1 rail, which is not far from the maximum the rail can handle before OCP makes it shutdown :(Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
Yeah, same as my both sets then. Need 2.05v for 1080 5-5-5-15 Memtest stability. I don't run anything not Memtest stable though, while in windows it seems fine, it will start giving worse problems like OS corruption sooner or later which I don't want to deal with knowing how much-a pain it is. For benching, 638 5-5-5-15-11 2.2v is stable enough.Quote:
Benched 2.8GHz/2.0GHz 1066-5-5-5-16-18 today. I get better results with 5-5-5-16-18 than with 5-5-5-15-11 btw also the ram needs ~2.05V now. :)
That's what I've decided, to test lowest volts 2.8G/2.0G stability today and then move on.Quote:
Stability testing 2.8GHz/2.0GHz at 1.3125V/1.285V over night, will bench that tomorrow and go for 2.8/2.4 then.
Thanks. If B2 could hit 2.6G NB, B3 should at least do this much, mine has already benched 2380NB at stock volts, the max possible on B2 1.3VID was 2200NB for me before it degraded, it was then 2150NB (not stable but benchable). The minute I flash a better BIOS, I'll experiment on NB alone.Quote:
Will post a summary of benchmarks results for 2.8 at different NB speeds then.
After that ill go for 3GHz ref HT wise.
Verify which rail increases current and decreases volts by which component load. The source rails my not be the same as the labeled rails, i.e 12V1 and 12V2 labeled on the PSU and separated outside may only actually be 12V1 combined, so it can get tricky ;)Quote:
I'm new to those mesurements. Saw that 12V1 is for the cpu only. I guess i can verify at least the volts with a DMM on the rails?
Yep, for volts DMM will be far more accurate. :yepp:
Not sure, 780G I bought for X2 4850e and 9100e or 9150e only. The article may be journalism but it has some good points.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR
First of all, all of those problems in there are true, some to more of an extent than others. My 780i board and replacement 790i board both killed MEM, HDD and MEM perf. like with others.
The 780G/790X/790GX/770 boards with cheap, weak and lower rated PWM section will have problems with high TDP CPUs, without a doubt. I have never considered 9850 etc being feasible for 780G boards for HTPC and such similar low watt uses, it is more an enthusiast CPU with high power, SMD and circuitry requirements. Secondly, the BIOS on such boards won't allow much oc on these CPUs. Thirdly, and most importantly, if you go beyond the inductor max.current limits, you'll have a fried board very quickly and at the least, a very degraded board. The 3-phase designs are not for Phenom above 95W in any way, you're asking for trouble. The 3+1 designs can handle higher, you just have to cool the damn PWM section to try and stay as near 25C as possible.
Some problems with that article is the common problem with geeks: they start passing off assumptions as facts too often when either their own knowledge, resources or experience is weak in a field. Those guys haven't worked with these boards long enough to figure out why. The problem with most of the boards Gary lists including GBT 780G is an overheating PWM area problem rather than a non-supporting problem, all he needs is to keep a fan on them like any experienced overclocker will do second nature when overclocking a CPU or with high wattage CPUs running on lower quality inductors and/or less than 3+1 phase motherboard PWM designs and many will handle 125W CPUs fine.
IMO, even owning a 9850/9750, I will never use it inside that board unless I can find a very good, low volt overclock. That will make it a very powerful offering, I "think" 2.7G 1.25v is a very real possibility for 100% stability on such 780G/790GX boards and that setting will give the 9850 BE a 125.5W maximum rating, which is still well within the board working limit and stock power draw. If you can then underclock to 0.7v 600MHz idle, then power draw/temps would be excellent.
That all said, I'll test the 9850 upto 2.8G 1.4v on the 770 and 780G boards to see how it copes, and if I get "death within seconds" like they're showing.
Another note is, the guys saying they've had "dead" boards which start but keep restarting before POST is the same problem I was getting on 3 boards. It's a cold reset problem rather than dead CPU/MB, like I found after 6 chips.
Using Sams Phenom MSR tool, or worse, MSR Editor in EVEREST/Crystal CUPID ;)Quote:
BTW how do you manipulate CnQ settings in windows. Is there a special tool that allows it?
Works fine for its intended purpose, read my last post starting section above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Esau
Accurate? That's a subjective term only AMD or such microprocessor MFGs can finalize really, or a professional EE in research. You need to know the Tcase_max for your CPU, when it's reached and what that software reads when it is reached to stay below it, and that we already know.
I'd just get a Xigmatek S1283 rather than that, very cheap too :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy932
KTE It is possible to activate AOD Turbo mode from Sam's tool?
Tried all AOD versions, all of them gave me troubles, and I can't use none.
I'm following your work on the 9850 with close attention, as always an 5* work.:yepp:
:toast:
Once you run the "tlbdisable" tool then aod starts up with the circle "red"Quote:
Originally Posted by aGeoM
already,on my board anyway.
Like the green light on that Cooler Master kit;)
Which problems?Quote:
Originally Posted by aGeoM
Which stepping Phenom?
Sam's tool can change any MSR, as long as you know it and edit the correct MSR. When you say "Turbo mode", do you mean AOD Yellow or AOD Red?
Is this with the latest AOD version?Quote:
Originally Posted by SocketMan
With mine, AOD "button color" was always yellow and the patch was still disabled. ;)
Mine,no color in AOD's circle (Vista SP1 x64/Server 2008 Ent). ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SocketMan
Seams to be a :cool: Watter kit.:up:
Screen stripes all over, restart system...,just don't work at all...Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Still on B2, I'm expecting B3 by Friday (It's cames by German Post, no tracking system, it's the first time I shop in this e-tailer)
AOD's Red mode, and I don't know witch MSR register to edit.Quote:
Sam's tool can change any MSR, as long as you know it and edit the correct MSR. When you say "Turbo mode", do you mean AOD Yellow or AOD Red?
Versions: 2.0.7; 2.0.9; 2.0.12; 2.0.14b; and 2.0.17, tried all.:(Quote:
Is this with the latest AOD version?
With mine, AOD "button color" was always yellow and the patch was still disabled. ;)
After Sam's tool applied, I have Yellow circle.
Thanks.
Kte did you ever try 1.13 with the new chip? or are you still on POJ
I don't know which MSRs to edit to have AOD Red mode, I've not tracked them down or seen them tracked down yet, sorry. :(
64b definitely still has more problems than 32b. My B2 had the same problem everyone else had... Vista is actually easier than Ubuntu 64b is. Just tried B3...
I'm stuck with no Gfx drivers, so 800x600 which is a PITA, so quickly=>
Stock
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/8...sysinfoiz8.png
2800MHz 100% load (see panel icon) - same settings as XP 32b
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/8644/screengy1.png
I have issues above that but I have those in 32b too.
Jon, still on P0J, have to pick someone up and go tracks 5 minutes ago and on way back I'm going back to other flat to pick up Xig cooler and some TIM to then install 1.13 and try oc. I've gotta be off somewhere now ;)
let us know about 1.13 please so I know if I need to flash before install of a new chip :D
and if you get a chance to post up some smp client F@H frame rates around 2.8ghz or better that would be great. If I recall you had ran it before.
Thanks KTE, no need for sorry. ;)
Can you try running mprime for a little while in 64-bit ubuntu? I'm really considering this board, but I don't use Windows and there's no point getting a board that has stability or compatibility issues with my OS of choice. Also, when you say you 'don't have graphics drivers' do they not work, or do you actually not have them in order to try?
Thank you for the updates KTE,
Nearly finished 2.8GHz benching. 2.4GHz for the NB require lots o volts to be stable. Benched 2.8/2.4 at 1.4/1.4 finaly and even there it froze one time during sandra latency test. Had no issues so far during application usage. Are you testing in CnQ tweaked mode? Tony reported an 7x ht multi helped him alot with stablilty above 3GHz, have you tried that setting?
About linux, i had no problems booting into 64bit debian testing with 32bit winxp stable settings up to 2.6GHz. During a linpack run watching the syslog i saw that some cores stopped responding in time above 2.4GHz.
Tried last week released Xen 4.1 here and it has issues detecting more than one core. :) The have full virtualisation support on amd platform now so i'm really curious how it will perform. Received the GTB780G mobo today. Equipped it with the 9600BE and 4x1GB G.Skills and will try that mobo now for xen testing. Seems to detect all four cores proper (at least during install right now) and without not responding timeouts. I suspect problems with apic/acpi implementations on the DFI.
Have you noticed lower power requirements from the mem? I think 2.12V was the lowest possible with the B2 at 533-5-5-5-16-18 now they run stable at ~2.0V.
I just upped the HT voltage to 1.5v, so 268 works fine now. Nothing higher is bootable, probably just limitation of the bios cause I'm still using 904 which was the first to support phenoms on the board. Currently running 268x11@1.325v because this board has some vdroop issues and it doesn't like high voltage to get the 1.3v at load that it needs to run 3+ghz. Not sure if that's a board issue or a psu issue, I have the pc power and cooling 510 watt, but I could move the 1kw one over to check.
2 more days till I get my 9850 BE...
This is what happens most of the time with AOD.
Well, like I said, I had no cooler or clip to fasten HSF down, nor any spare TIM... stock HSF resting on top was giving me 45C idle and Zalman 9700 fullspeed resting on top was giving me 35C idle but very high load.
So here comes my fav. cooler so far, at 22C Ta, just one HS fan=> Xigmatek HDT-S1283 :D
Idle
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/9...e20cambyo6.png
5min. Stabilized Load
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/6...d23cambkt0.png
Remember, my last 9600BE stock was 87W load, much lower TDP. I've measured high power draw for the 9850BE stock alone. It will be very hot like the QX6700 and QX9770/9775 are, so these coolers will have to handle high heat loads. :yepp:
I'm pretty good with getting temps. down on coolers with different mountings, TIMs and stock fans... but that just beat my Tunic Tower 120 by 5C ID and 4C LD, thermal resistance of around 0.12 C/W => very impressive cooler :clap:
And to add, you cannot hear the fan over ambient noise or my GFX fan noise, I have to keep checking EVEREST to see if its even running because I keep thinking its stopped or powered down to 4V :yepp:
Beware! Damn if you use this cooler, the space on the MB between heatsink right bottom and RAM is extremely minute - you will have to push one fin up to get one RAM module in - laboriously tight fit and removal will also be a pain. Because of this, RAM will run hot as there is no airflow down there, you have the lowest aluminium heatsink fin which heats up, touching the first RAM module by covering its top heat escape route [gap], and hanging over the second RAM module but blocking the fan airflow from going down there; the heat from the RAM HS cannot escape anywhere [tshh tshh.. D9s run very hot and die very quickly by running hot] but the heat is recycled within both RAM modules, heating things up even more, so definitely get a little fan near it. I've just added a temperature controlled 60mm fan there which is at 800RPM and you can't even hear it above the ambient noise; it is running the RAM IC temp at 35C load, which is 39C better than stock, so good for me.
Anyway, for air, this cooler, 1/3 the price of TRUE here, is definitely recommended! Now, finally, the air oc starts :cool:
Here's stock Sandra [512MB access] Phenom 9850 BE bandwidth compared - they are our own results, upper two are mine and lower two are Achim's;
Phenom 9850 BE 2.5G 1066 Unganged vs Phenom 9850 BE 2.8G 800 Ganged vs Phenom 9600 BE 2.3G 1066 vs QX6850 2.33G 1066
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1...6ungvo8.th.png
Here's x264 benchmark [the older one we used before] comparing 9850BE 2.5G with 9600BE 2.6G =>
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/3...2500xr3.th.png
Check EVEREST PhotoWorxx stock 800 Ganged vs 1066 Unganged ;)
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8059/photoon1.png
Hmmm... don't have the client installed but I have the bench CD lying around somewhere, HD is in a mess right now because I don't have free time for PCs. I'll check it out but I can't yet as I'm stability testing, apologies. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
They are provided by Linux, but the install procedure never works. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by karbonkid
And it keeps asking me for the install CD when I don't have it anymore. It puts me off booting into it again.
mprime? I'd run it but it's a pain to run anything at those screen settings, it defaults to 65Hz which is way too bad to look at with a 150Hz CRT. :shakes:
You're welcome - I have benched 2.4GNB, required 1.325VID :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
My 9600BE required 1.4VID for 2.4G NB stable, but soon, it degraded... I have a strong suspicion that its not the cores that degrade but the IMC :idea: LOL
Have done, but not always. If I want to bench, I just click the power icon and switch CnQ off by choosing Max Battery:Quote:
Are you testing in CnQ tweaked mode?
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/817/powerti9.png
Nope, thanks for the tip, I'll try it for sure.Quote:
Tony reported an 7x ht multi helped him alot with stablilty above 3GHz, have you tried that setting?
The cores not responding happened with me too but at anything above 2.6G with the 9850BE. I've not checked for 9850BE, so far it seems fine. I just need to GFX damn drivers working and I'll be happy to test in it :(Quote:
About linux, i had no problems booting into 64bit debian testing with 32bit winxp stable settings up to 2.6GHz. During a linpack run watching the syslog i saw that some cores stopped responding in time above 2.4GHz.
Tried last week released Xen 4.1 here and it has issues detecting more than one core. :) The have full virtualisation support on amd platform now so i'm really curious how it will perform. Received the GTB780G mobo today. Equipped it with the 9600BE and 4x1GB G.Skills and will try that mobo now for xen testing. Seems to detect all four cores proper (at least during install right now) and without not responding timeouts. I suspect problems with apic/acpi implementations on the DFI.
Hmm.. you know, I always Memtest any setting and never rely on what happens in-windows because windows thinks too much is stable, so it was actually the opposite for me :yepp:Quote:
Have you noticed lower power requirements from the mem? I think 2.12V was the lowest possible with the B2 at 533-5-5-5-16-18 now they run stable at ~2.0V.
9600BE did 626 5-5-5-15-11 2.15v stable but 9850BE did not do that setting stable even at 2.3v. 9850BE did not run even 560 that setting stable at 2.2v, Memtest failed at Test#6, second run.
In-Windows, I've had more stability than B2 though, benched 638 5-5-5-15-11 2.2v which was not possible before. To check if it is better, I need higher HT and to test 500 4-4-4-4 1T 2.2v. B2 never had this stable but could easily bench it. Still it isn't really stable setting for me, just not crashing yet, Memtest shows it with many errors.
My this set of D9 is good, I can drop to 1.8v real 1066 5-5-5-15-13 and bench it in-windows perfectly fine - but it won't be Memtest stable, it needs 2.05v for that.
1.5v HT voltage is needed? That's a first that I've seen, I have benched 2596MHz HT at stock 1.2v and even 260-274HT at that voltage across quite a few Phenoms :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy932
Why don't you change to a better BIOS if BIOS is the limitation?
I might test this chip in the ASUS 790FX again very soon, just to see if max stable, max bench, max screen is worth the 2.5x price it has over the MSI. For volts, just use a DMM and check idle-load rails voltages. ;)Quote:
Currently running 268x11@1.325v because this board has some vdroop issues and it doesn't like high voltage to get the 1.3v at load that it needs to run 3+ghz. Not sure if that's a board issue or a psu issue, I have the pc power and cooling 510 watt, but I could move the 1kw one over to check.
Wow, fireworks? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by aGeoM
Seems you have a compatibility issue with it. I get that if I start RMClock, computer shuts down instantly, right that second!
I have no idea why that could be, quite frankly. check C:\Program Files\AMD\OverDrive folder for the logs. They should have errors in them. If they do, post those errors back, we can look over them and Sami may look over it and be able to advise you better ;)
Hint:-
If you want AOD to start quickly and with bare minimum needed to oc, then go into C:\Program Files\AMD\OverDrive and cut/paste the file PageSettings.xml to a safe folder outside of this folder [as I've shown earlier].
Now go back into C:\Program Files\AMD\OverDrive and move the file PageSettings.xml I'm attaching with this post in there.
Now tell me how quick and trouble free AOD opens ;)
Vista, just find the directory for the same file and do the same procedure.
I just noticed....
AOD has NB VID option working! :eek:
Great work, finally, in-windows oc is now possible if you know what you're doing.
BTW 9850BE stock 1066 Unganged, WinRAR is around 2100KiB/s.
EDIT: not sure I've said it before but there is also 8450, 8650, 8750 to be releasing anytime this month. 2.1G, 2.3G, 2.4G B3 X3s. ;)
You could have also used the 3.6GHz result for the qx. :) Will try your sandra results file here today, i laos prepared a few other sandra benches on the weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Thx, seems i had too low chipset voltages in the way here. Dropped the 2.8/2.2 stability test in favour of 2.9/2.2 with 1.35V for the CPU.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Never used high NB speeds on my BE9600 i had to on the 9500 can be that's why one stopped working and the other not.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Hmm tried to install ubuntu on the GBT780G with an 9600BE but i cant get the installer working even in save mode, gdm restarts every few seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Never had issues with the HD's under linux. Always builded packages for the os im on with the installer from AMD, will try it on the other setup later.
Thank you for sharing this. Still have no clear picture about memory voltages here, that will require more testing here. seems higher NB speeds lead to higher voltage requirements for the ram too atm.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
I probably didn't need all 1.5v, but the board was running it at 1.375 and it wasn't enough. The other thing is that since its only a 590 board I don't know what the nb or the l3 are running at. I'll put it back under the vapo later and see if I can do anything different. At least that board doesn't have vdroop from 1.33 down to 1.26 with this chip.
Edit: Put the chip back under the vapo. I decided to try the 7x ht link to see if it would help, and it got me to boot up at 262 htt. Problem is that I can't get windows to start at that speed so it doesn't really mater. It always freezes at the windows logo before the logon screen.
I'm really starting to think that its the memory controller on these B2's that hate the cold rather than the entire chip. I just booted into windows with 260x11.5, I have the memory set to ddr2-400 setting, nb and ht link at 9x. If I set it to 533 I'm willing to bet that windows won't boot because the imc can't handle the cold. I'll do some more testing later, need to get to school soon.
Do yourself a favor and use the alternative install. It is more reliable. ncurses ftw. fancy ui installers are really a waste of time better contributed to fixing bugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
Could someone with the MSI plat please try beta 1.13 with the 9850 and post there findings as far as muilt's go? If they work or if they don't.
:yepp: Normaly using debian therefore.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR
Grabbing ubuntu-7.10-alternate-amd64.iso now. :up:
not sure if anyone has notice but, there are 3 new drivers at MSI's website. Ethernet, Audio, and Chipset. :)
Has anyone tried any other bios with the 9850? Im getting mine tomorrow and just wanted to see which is the best right now.
KTE: Which bios are you getting 1066 unganged?
I have a question as i'm trying to decide which board to buy. Can the PCI-E x16 slots be used for anything other than GFX cards? I want to pick up a higher end board only because of the better pwm's i dont need crossfire and i'd like to have some expansion options. I know that according to the specs you should be able to, i'm just wondering if it actually works.
Aight, I'm done tinkering with my 9600. I don't want to or plan to buy aftermarket cooling. I figured I'd try and maximize my setup. No increasing ANY voltage to keep temps as close to stock as possible. I think I've done that. Video card is at 830MHz core / 1205MHz memory. Here are my results. 100% stable wooooooot, 100MHz OC! :)
3DMark06
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=6174397
Crysis 1.2 | Medium Quality | 1680x1050 | DX9 | 32Bit
48FPS
Everest - Photoworkx
http://www.jmbat.com/media/phenomoc/...t4_everest.jpg
Screenshot
http://jmbat.com/media/phenomoc/phen...int4_11004.jpg
What version of everest are you running? EDIT: Oooops, it says in the screen shot... sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by batmang
Thanks, for the file, no logs here before.Quote:
Wow, fireworks?
Seems you have a compatibility issue with it. I get that if I start RMClock, computer shuts down instantly, right that second!
I have no idea why that could be, quite frankly. check C:\Program Files\AMD\OverDrive folder for the logs. They should have errors in them. If they do, post those errors back, we can look over them and Sami may look over it and be able to advise you better
Hint:-
If you want AOD to start quickly and with bare minimum needed to oc, then go into C:\Program Files\AMD\OverDrive and cut/paste the file PageSettings.xml to a safe folder outside of this folder [as I've shown earlier].
Now go back into C:\Program Files\AMD\OverDrive and move the file PageSettings.xml I'm attaching with this post in there.
Now tell me how quick and trouble free AOD opens
Vista, just find the directory for the same file and do the same procedure.
I went to CPU DID,HTT,HT and NB default speeds, left VID's at my last configuration (CPU=1.468;CPU-NB=1.331;DRAM=2.21;SB-PLL=1.30;NB-CORE=1.290;NB-PCI=1.250;NB-HT=1.320) and AOD runs OK, changed HTT in 2 10MHz steps then froze.
AOD boots fine until HTT=245 from bios, after that "Fire Works", maybe have to do with BOOT HTT setting in BIOS, cuz I have to set it to 250 if I wanna boot at HTT=250, or else (25) error.:shrug:
All this testing was done with and without your page settings file.
Last Log file.
Well well... I switched system off, cleared CMOS before wanting to flash a new BIOS around 40 hours back and the system, like the previous ones - did not boot for 20 hours in a row :(
It booted ~6am this morning randomly. I asked for further info today, and news has it, that this is a BIOS problem but not just on this board, on a few others too. It obviously is a problem, since that's 4 new Phenoms now, 3 boards, 3 PSUs, 2 different RAM kits and 2 different GPUs all of which work without errors in other systems.
So, first note:-
Out of all the 9850BE's I've seen so far, mine is the weakest and poorest one. :(
Second note:-
I still have those dreaded idling freezing issues and I'll explain how they occur more. I tested 2860CPU 2220HT 2220NB today, stock 1.296v ID / 1.280v LD volts. Don't recall idle temps, but load temps were 36-38C after 30minutes EVEREST stability test loads. I don't remember which version it was, but one of the last 4.20 versions of EVEREST fixed many issues and now, on Phenoms, the core load is very high and susceptibility to catch errors very good.
Anyway, after I switched it off, ran PassMark but still had the PrntScrn screenshot in Clipboard not saved. Just trying to open the menu 70 seconds after those benchmarks and it froze. :mad:
Dropped down one at a time to 2800. Still froze.
Then started increasing voltage and kept rebooting every time it froze.
I am now at 1.36v ID and 1.328v load, at 2806CPU. This is now full load and idling stable for 1 minute short of 5 hours, more than others. It seems I will need much higher voltage to get near 2900CPU stable. From a quick try, I don't think it's possible without 1.45v ID and 1.42v load minimum.
Load stable is a totally different story. Can do that at 2950CPU 1.4v without problems.
Idle stability, major problems unless you increase volts pretty high.
Third note:-
3000CPU is now no way stable, meaning even 1.55v load will not get it load/bench stable like before.
Fourth note:-
Barcelona, Phenom and Toliman are now being offered by Gateway, Acer, HP, Sun, and Dell. Only remember the Gateway E-9232T, E-9722R, E-9522R, E-9422R and GT series, Dell OptiPlex 740, Acer Aspire M5100, HP Pavillion, HP Compaq, Sun blade/cluster/server lines, HP ProLiant DL585 G5, Colfax servers and so on. IBM is going to offer the B3 too. 2.3GHz is max I've seen the server line offering.
Fifth note:-
Intels 45nm CPUs are finally becoming available here, although supply is very short or back-ordered for most models, esp. Yorkfields. But the price hyped since October compared to retail price is very different, the prices are not competing with Phenom at all, Intel 45nm and 65nm prices are too high on the majority. Q6600 G0 is the outlier, and it competes with the 9850 BE, being $20 higher in price here. Since HP and Gateway are stocking more AMD based desktop solutions at major retailers such as Best Buy and WalMart than Intel based ATM, competition is sparking up. Especially since for many months, AMD offerings were only low-price, low-profit segment orientated but now you have mid to high-end AMD systems being listed by OEM and ODM's squaring against Intel ones. I hope Intel drops prices, they're too high here :)
Here's PassMark 6.1 CPU and Memory benches:
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/405...4872oo4.th.png
Very easy CPU setting EV. MEM/Cache:
http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/8779/2847876do7.png
Oh I didn't have that imported, only imported 5 results. Just imported more and here's the 1066 4-4-4-12 result at 3-3.6G Kentsfield =>Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/4...empsmj6.th.png
What Vcore do you need to get 2.9G stable Achim?Quote:
Thx, seems i had too low chipset voltages in the way here. Dropped the 2.8/2.2 stability test in favour of 2.9/2.2 with 1.35V for the CPU.
That's what I tried, but I actually tried everything there is out there. Main limitation is it needs CD I don't have.Quote:
Hmm tried to install ubuntu on the GBT780G with an 9600BE but i cant get the installer working even in save mode, gdm restarts every few seconds.
Never had issues with the HD's under linux. Always builded packages for the os im on with the installer from AMD, will try it on the other setup later.
I won't be able to test MEM much until I can get on 113 BIOS or better. But 113 although is best perf/oc BIOS, it does not support 1066 mode and has many stability problems. I'll try moving to it and post a EVE/Sandra b/w comparison with high and low NB using 800 mode. Might try WinRAR and PhotoWorxx too, they're high MEM dependent benches.Quote:
Still have no clear picture about memory voltages here, that will require more testing here. seems higher NB speeds lead to higher voltage requirements for the ram too atm.
What if you increase voltage to 1.6v?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy932
Usually either voltage is all you need for what you're seeing or its a core limit. But if its a core limit, usually you can never POST with it.
Hmm.. thanks for the tests. I am willing to try something similar soon too, just need to figure this damn one out first!Quote:
I'm really starting to think that its the memory controller on these B2's that hate the cold rather than the entire chip. I just booted into windows with 260x11.5, I have the memory set to ddr2-400 setting, nb and ht link at 9x. If I set it to 533 I'm willing to bet that windows won't boot because the imc can't handle the cold. I'll do some more testing later, need to get to school soon.
If I clear CMOS, I'll be stuck for 1-5 days without boot. So.... :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by jonspd
I'll give it a go in a while. Multis should work fine, worked fine on 9600BE.
For version 1.0 of the board? Chipset are just the ones released in ATi Catalyst 8.3, Audio/Ethernet I did see and try, had no issues or difference to earlier ones for meQuote:
Originally Posted by d412k5t412
P0JQuote:
KTE: Which bios are you getting 1066 unganged?
What do you have in mind? I can try and test if you let me know, they should work.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR
Great, but I am sure you can get more, you have one the lowest bin models I've come across - 1.2VID/1.2v 9600BE. It should be a better clocker than most others around, try below 2600 stock volts. Can it not go any further with unlocked multis?Quote:
Originally Posted by batmang
Which BIOS are you on? What's your MEM rated for?
Try 212HTx11.5, don't change any voltages and check - it's a much better performance setting than what you're on and it looks like it should be stable at stock voltage. You are fine as long as you have sub 70C load temps in those utilities. That's well within rated spec, on the stock cooler, with no fan, I was reaching 55C load at just stock.
Jack, has yours arrived yet? I noticed you had the Plat. on there, which version is it? IDT v1.0 [ones we have] retail in US anymore and the v2.0 sucks with poor support, be warned. :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingJack
Oh man, no wonder. 10MHz is too high, it will freeze for anyone. +2MHz is what you should be going up until you start reaching within 25-30MHz HT of your core limit, by then, start going up by 1MHz. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by aGeoM
Also, do you need all those extra latter voltages that high? There usually is no need for them above stock since they have nothing to do with the CPU or its clocks and chipset is unaffected by AMD CPU oc's.
Hmm.. not sure but that's a typical sign of instability usually. When you have unstable HT values and AOD tries to access RD790 PLL, AOD will either crash or freeze the system - happened with me on all my chips ;)Quote:
AOD boots fine until HTT=245 from bios, after that "Fire Works", maybe have to do with BOOT HTT setting in BIOS, cuz I have to set it to 250 if I wanna boot at HTT=250, or else (25) error.
Are you sure you're config is stable above 245HT? Can you boot over that fine with CnQ enabled for instance?
Log file is full of errors, mainly those of accessing ports or PLLs. It's not specific enough to debug though.Quote:
All this testing was done with and without your page settings file.
Last Log file.
OK, I'll try 2 MHz steps. That extra volts was from the last config. used CPU-FID=10.5; HTT=268; HT-FID=x8; NB-FID=x8, benched fine 3 runs of 3DMark06. So I left them like this to come back to it again after AOD test.Quote:
Oh man, no wonder. 10MHz is too high, it will freeze for anyone. +2MHz is what you should be going up until you start reaching within 25-30MHz HT of your core limit, by then, start going up by 1MHz.
Also, do you need all those extra latter voltages that high? There usually is no need for them above stock since they have nothing to do with the CPU or its clocks and chipset is unaffected by AMD CPU oc's.
Well 250HTT, 3h AAO gaming and Primed plus 6h till I turn off PC no errors, but with this board (DFI) I got same problems has you when idle or net browsing, so I can't say it's stable. No wonder they are talking in EOL for this board after couple months of it's release.:(Quote:
Hmm.. not sure but that's a typical sign of instability usually. When you have unstable HT values and AOD tries to access RD790 PLL, AOD will either crash or freeze the system - happened with me on all my chips
Are you sure you're config is stable above 245HT? Can you boot over that fine with CnQ enabled for instance?
CnQ never been enabled :D , I'll reboot and try.
Big thanks for your support KTE, I sincerely hope that you fix that bios/boot/cpu problem, never happened with mine. :(
Cheers
EDIT: CnQ=AUTO :up:
KTE What bios are you using? I know 1.1b3 was best for the 9600BE since it didn't have the TLB fix. But, have you tried 1.2 official? It's almost the same bios but just has the TLB fix enabled on it. Well that and it is suppose to have 1066 memory support. 9600BE I was OCing to same clocks on 1.2 as 1.1b3 with the same voltages, was just a bit more stable on 1.2 but held back by the fix.
I don't know what to say, gotta be something going on with your system. I've yet to encounter those problems, and I've been running OCed for closing on what, 4 or 5 months now? *knocks on wood* Granted, you're still using the Stock HSF though aren't you?
If you're still having these cold boot issues, I'm seriously starting to think that there is something that is causing the PWM area on your boards to Overheat. Hell you might need to try out one of those Gemini II coolers, or a big typhoon or something that blows down on that area of the board, instead of a horizontal blower.
Thanks. Well a tuner or a sound card would be nice. Both of these seem to be transitioning to pci-e by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
I just got my 9850 and flashed to 1.2 and It did not boot. Had to go to 1.4 for now since P0J doesn't work for me for some reason. It was a pain! Had to put my 9600 back in to flash the newer bios >_<Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathos
My 9850 is priming at stock right now, just want to fully torture it before doing any clocking. The computer starts at -20C so the coldbug is lower than that. I did get these new settings in the bios for ECC options, for error correcting when the memory or caches are idle. I'll play around with them after I get a decent clock.
@KTE - No 9850 isn't here yet, will be here tomorrow. Yeah, I picked up a MSI (same board you are using) since I will now have two phenoms, I wanted to build a second rig anyway. Not terribly worried about the version though ... for any higher end testing I have good confidence in the M3A.
So there are 4 rigs in my pooling -- boards are Asus M3A32-MVP, MSI KA2+ Plat., Asus Maxiums Formula (x38 chipset), Asus Rampage Forumula ..
I constructed two shunts so I will be able to get power at the socket, as well as a power meter at the wall... Ultimately I will be able to look at some thermals.
Jack
OC full stability breakdown so far=>
2784MHz 1.296v / 1.280v - max stock volts stable
2800MHz 1.296v / 1.280v - unstable*
2808MHz 1.312v / 1.300v - stable
2850MHz 1.365v / 1.328v - unstable*
2847MHz 1.406v / 1.380v - stable
2870MHz 1.416v / 1.384v - unstable*
2870MHz 1.440v / 1.412v - unstable*
2900MHz 1.416v /1.384v - unstable*
2900MHz 1.480v / 1.456v - load stable and idle testing now^
2925MHz 1.44v / 1.425v - unstable*
2970MHz 1.45v / 1.428v - unstable*
3000MHz 1.48v / 1.434v - unstable*
3055MHz 1.512 / 1.458v - unstable*
* = stable load/bench, freezes idling within 10 to 1200 minutes.
^ = current setting [1hr into it]
2856 30min EVEREST full load:
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1105/tempsdk9.png
Idle:
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/9423/idlefu6.png
Some WinRAR:
http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/3350/winbf5.png
800 mode, plus 12k Sandra, compare two settings:
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/6674/ssswl9.th.png vs http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/305/ss2pv9.th.png
EVE bandwidth compare 2808 vs 2847:
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2...4334zo2.th.png vs http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5...7876er7.th.png
Stock volts NB, max boot so far [unstable, EVE L3 test]:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2809/setup1gi7.png
aGeoM, np. Try the CnQ setting, it may help. Most of the AOD problems are not, it is a complex tool and most users do not spend time and/or the appropriate procedures to troubleshoot or understand it enough and hence its a muck up for them. I'll give you some tips for AOD usage;
1. Don't oc within windows with CnQ on, it'll just cause you problems.
2. Only change one parameter at a time in AOD for best and most consistent results, and if you have to, then either change speeds or change voltages, not both at the same time. :yepp: Usually if you're going for max on anything, then crank cooling max, boost volts up, drop HT Link and start on the HT Ref. It won't take long until you reach a limit.
3. Use the file I attached [or similar settings] with minimum AOD pages loading up.
4. Use the AOD Yellow Mode.
5. Don't move VID and Volts at the same instance.
6. Look at the "real volts" after application, not the volt values in the slider. Volts displayed are based entirely on VID, the higher the VID, the higher the volts available, I've had 1.78v at 1.55VID. :D
7. Don't open any other [I/O-HW] tool when AOD is open or before it - after AOD has opened, then you can open CPUZ, but not something heavier or more tools if oc'ing [ss should be ok]. They can many times conflict and send things haywire, even your clocks.
On the 9500/9600, HT 7x gave me best results, IDK why, it just did. I was able to bench much higher HT MHz with it.
Are you positive 1.2 supports 800 and 1066 MEM boot? Let me know, I don't recall but if it does, I'll flash that instead of 113. I'm still on P0J, system is running a stress test ATM. EDIT: NM, see below.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathos
Using Xigmatek HDT-S1283 with 152CFM Delta fan for a day now [check above posts].Quote:
I don't know what to say, gotta be something going on with your system. I've yet to encounter those problems, and I've been running OCed for closing on what, 4 or 5 months now? *knocks on wood* Granted, you're still using the Stock HSF though aren't you?
The PWM is very cool, I have a learned habit to cool all ICs as much as possible without heavy noise if tinkering any system. I have a 120mm 102CFM Delta running off a variable fan controller, currently at 4V 8xxRPM over the PWM area fully, a variable controller running a 60mm [found on stock K7/K7.5] at 4V 8xxRPM, and the Delta I mentioned clipped on the Xig cooler temperature variated. Just for added safety, I have 5 temp probes place around the board too. Things are very cool, problem is elsewhere and it's with the BIOS for Phenoms I'm being told -- it certainly points to it, since I have this problem with 3 new boards, 5 new Phenoms, 3 new RAM kits, 3 new PSUs - all confirmed working perfectly elsewhere. :shrug:Quote:
If you're still having these cold boot issues, I'm seriously starting to think that there is something that is causing the PWM area on your boards to Overheat. Hell you might need to try out one of those Gemini II coolers, or a big typhoon or something that blows down on that area of the board, instead of a horizontal blower.
BrowncoatGR, I'll have to take my board to work now and try one of the audio devices they have. Our department has some spare Motu 2408 MK3 PCIe-424 which I can test quickly to see if it works, they can default to any number of PCIe lanes as specified by hardware and/or BIOS.
d412k5t412, Thanks for the feedback. Now obviously I'm not going to flash 1.2 and I was just about to do it now :)
Oldguy932, yeah, I always test a system before trying anything - wisest way forward, or you have no idea what was stable or unstable before you start. Keep us updated.
Jack, one comparison I'd like to see is power at the 12V 4pin/8pin aswell as power at the the various PSU 12V and expected power. A few tests show some ridiculous power values when you drop the MHz/Volts, seems there is a large inaccuracy possible unless you check and calibrate from the lower end up or use an accurate feedback and measuring system. All below 12W, my system would read 0A idle through the 12V using such a method which was obviously wrong. Rechecked with PSU sensors and they registered a 0.1A power output.
OK, I never user AOD to OC (I do it from BIOS, the same for GPU's), only to test it and only changed HTT, 10MHz steps to 250, and 1 MHz steps >250, from AOD I only want the RED Mode to 3DMark benching, it boost your score by ~500, since the M3A32-MVP I can't break 15.1K-3DM06 :( , but thanks for the tips, it will help many of us.Quote:
aGeoM, np. Try the CnQ setting, it may help. Most of the AOD problems are not, it is a complex tool and most users do not spend time and/or the appropriate procedures to troubleshoot or understand it enough and hence its a muck up for them. I'll give you some tips for AOD usage;
1. Don't oc within windows with CnQ on, it'll just cause you problems.
2. Only change one parameter at a time in AOD for best and most consistent results, and if you have to, then either change speeds or change voltages, not both at the same time. Usually if you're going for max on anything, then crank cooling max, boost volts up, drop HT Link and start on the HT Ref. It won't take long until you reach a limit.
3. Use the file I attached [or similar settings] with minimum AOD pages loading up.
4. Use the AOD Yellow Mode.
5. Don't move VID and Volts at the same instance.
6. Look at the "real volts" after application, not the volt values in the slider. Volts displayed are based entirely on VID, the higher the VID, the higher the volts available, I've had 1.78v at 1.55VID.
7. Don't open any other [I/O-HW] tool when AOD is open or before it - after AOD has opened, then you can open CPUZ, but not something heavier or more tools if oc'ing [ss should be ok]. They can many times conflict and send things haywire, even your clocks.
On the 9500/9600, HT 7x gave me best results, IDK why, it just did. I was able to bench much higher HT MHz with it.
You have 2808@Unganged Vs 2847@Ganged, should it be the 2 at the same? :p:Quote:
EVE bandwidth compare 2808 vs 2847
Today must be the day... it arrived to local Post Station, waiting for it at anytime.:banana3:
EDIT: :YIPPIE: JAAFB AA 0810APMW
Just finished 8 hours of prime at 216x12.5 vcore 1.3v set 1.28 actual and v core-nb 1.3. Using the multipliers gives me problems, Windows wouldn't boot at 200x14, and it did fine at 224x12.5. I'm wondering if its the mobo that doesn't like them because my 9600 BE was the same way.
KTE, what is your ambient temperature? These idle and load temps are very good!
I have this board on the bench now, flashed bios 1.4 with the 9850 there should in theory be no TLB issues, hard to check though as AOD crashes the board.
man I wish I had NB multi support but at least this board is HTT friendly, had a boot at 270 with 266 entering vista, testing 252 now and working up.
If they could add TLB ON/OFF and give me NB multi option this board would be killer, easy as good as the GBT DQ6 which I rate higher than the DFI at this time due to bios issues.
aGeoM, I never use the Red mode, it gives me no boost at all. It'll give a boost to higher end GPU perf. though.
Sami said at the beginning to go up in little HT MHz and for quite obvious reasons, you have 5 PLLs being changed and a chance of system corruption if you muck up.
MEM bw, well yep, they should be if testing properly but they were just two random shots paired together for posting sake :D
BTW, in your log file I found all references to Griffin, but it shows internal name AMD K11h. The PLL coding is there meaning they have the tool working with it.
BrowncoatGR, sound devices work fine in the extra PCIe slots, with 4 lanes and 16. Skipped 8 lane testing because I had no time. :)
Oldguy932, what's your batch/stepping/week and stock Vcore? Any coldboot? What's lowest temps you've booted? Details details details ... :D
Also flash a better BIOS if you have the multiplier problem, our first BIOSes all also had a limit at 13.5x CPU multi.
Morais, ambients there were 23C, that's my usual room temp. Sometimes it fluctuates 22-25C but not less or more. Right now its 23C for instance.
Tony, official BIOSes are quite bad for oc... I haven't tried 1.4 yet but can you test some 2x2GB kits and what your max stable/bench/screen on this board is please? Would be very good to know.
Stability Update:-
2900MHz 1.480v / 1.456v - load stable, failed idle stability after 15 hours
2900MHz 1.512v / 1.480v - load stable and idle testing now [7 hours]
Here's the setting I am currently testing, earlier in EVEREST full load for plus 35mins showing load temps and voltage [to show this coolers efficiency, handles high heat load better than any other air cooler I've seen to date, Zalman 9700 could not keep up, plus 70C easy] => 200W TDP here
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2...ess2900gk6.png
The main point is to test;
- does B3 scale with voltage
- will better cooling [water/phase] do it better for clocks/stability
- does B3 have headroom and if so, how much exactly
I am definitely thinking of a weaker core syndrome again - remember I could get 223x12.5 across 3 cores and 223x12 across one core to get my first 9600BE stable, whereas 12.5x multi on all of them would make it very unstable. Will try the same here. Toliman must have had a major financially sound reason for inception...
Core starts needing very high volts for stability past 2808 as you can see, power draw flies at such settings, but I'm not in the same position as you guys who keep it as your home system, I'm just testing it for a little while to see and show what is possible with it and can afford to make any loss since it was free. Will see how it scales with voltage, kinda shows the limit.
Looking at this, they can surely release a 140W TDP 2.8G model, mine needs stock volts for 2.784G, which is still below 140W.
Oh BTW, just remembered. Anytime now Geil will release a DDR2-1300 kit, most likely part of the Esoteria lineup.
Man what NB speed are you running?Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
With an 14,5 cpu multi a 10x nb multi is very unstable here. An 11x multi is alot more stable but needs ~0.05V more than with an 14x cpu multi.
Anyway 2.9/2.2 works fine here with 1.4V/1.35V only limit are the temps here. They must have reached 85°C here because thats where the board powers off and the system was of this morning. During the firs 15 minutes or so the cpu temps where in the 70°C area.
DDR2-1300 kit sounds promising.
Stepping is in my sig. It has booted at -40C because whenever I change bios settings I have to turn off the psu because the vapo turns off because the computer doesn't do a soft boot after changing the settings. Stock vcore is 1.3v. I'm doing a little bit of random testing right now, keeping the nb and cpu at 1:1, about to run some stuff at 250x10.
Stock or close to it. Very low HT, to try and eliminate any variables apart form clock speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by justapost
Yeah unfortunately my chip is not like yours, its worse. Either that or the board/BIOS is bad, but I don't think its the latter for some reason, maybe I should now test another 790FX board and see. Not load stable, load stable it can easily do 1.48v ID / 1.440v LD 3055MHz - but the idling stability which has plagued us. :( Temps are good with this cooler, TT120 and Zalman 9700 could not handle this heatload even for 3 minutes under load.Quote:
With an 14,5 cpu multi a 10x nb multi is very unstable here. An 11x multi is alot more stable but needs ~0.05V more than with an 14x cpu multi.
Anyway 2.9/2.2 works fine here with 1.4V/1.35V only limit are the temps here. They must have reached 85°C here because thats where the board powers off and the system was of this morning. During the firs 15 minutes or so the cpu temps where in the 70°C area.
I am thinking of picking up your board again... MSI is just not letting out a BIOS I can use to oc properly and I've ran out of time for computing this year - which BIOS are you using and do you recommend? Is there a large vDroop and vDrop on the board?
It'll most likely be like the Team Group kit, 2.45v 6-6-6-18 1300 - I hope not, but I have a feeling it will be.Quote:
DDR2-1300 kit sounds promising.
Good to know, at least there's no CB upto -40C :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy932
I'm currently testing the below setting: 1.516v ID / 1.480v LD 2914MHz. Load is stable, idling stability so far is OK, more than 80mins into it but need to let it run at least a day or two to see if it fails.
Attachment 76311
Tried 2940 at the same voltage before, it failed after Crysis for about 30 mins, back to desktop, nothing open, idling, it froze.
I'll test NB/HT/HT Link/RAM max and stability later. I'm not looking forward to it though.
Yeap 2x 3870 Crossfire here.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Got it. ;)Quote:
Sami said at the beginning to go up in little HT MHz and for quite obvious reasons, you have 5 PLLs being changed and a chance of system corruption if you muck up.
:slapass: :lol2:Quote:
MEM bw, well yep, they should be if testing properly but they were just two random shots paired together for posting sake :D
:confused: Is that normal? I was using the 9500.Quote:
BTW, in your log file I found all references to Griffin, but it shows internal name AMD K11h. The PLL coding is there meaning they have the tool working with it.
Yeah, it's just normal... they added support for new CPUs that's all. :)
What's max you're running on your cards stable?
With Spider there will definitely be tweaks uncovered yet for multil-GPU setups, I've just not had time to check. I would throw in >2 3870X2/3870 but its too much hassle and especially since I haven't even sorted the CPU side out yet, which is my main aim. I only used more than one GPU on the 790FX once and that was around 55 minutes to check if it worked, how many GPUs worked, what the issues were, if it benched using all of them with scaling, the full load power, which PCIe slots worked with what bandwidth, what were the fitting issues and which slots were slightly better, so can't say much.
Cards are stock cooled, no Vmods, clocks programed in bios, for 24/7.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Been fighting with CPU/BOARD too...:(
That's the same 3870 I tested :)
Stability Update:-
2909/2902MHz 1.516v / 1.480v - idle and load stable
2914MHz 1.516v / 1.480v - idle unstable and load stable
2947MHz 1.516v / 1.480v - idle unstable and load stable
:confused:
So I tried, this, my current setting, a compromise. So far it has worked excellent without problems=>
3010 x1/2900 x3 1.516v / 1.480v - idle and load stable [still going]
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/185...ting329ap7.png
Seems one or more cores are weaker, 3G stable is there, at least on one core :up: :p:
What is the difference between CPU VID and CPU VDDC?
I change the vcore in the BIOS and it changes the CPU VDDC. But i've noticed that if i chance the CPU VID in AMD Overdrive, I get more stable overclocking. Any help?
Well, this is the first good news I've really had so far from my 9850. 2750 for the nb is stable at 1.325 nb vid. Beyond that I'm trying for 3ghz nb, and its taking ALOT more voltage, 1.525 is being tested for stability right now. Once I get it stable I will post some screenies, only got everest bandwidth tests to run at 1.5v. Mem was 500mhz 5-3-3-9 so to not worry about it at all, latency was like 81 with the nb at 2.5ghz, at 3ghz it dropped to 75.7. Too bad this chip doesn't clock well... 2.8ghz took me 1.4v but that might just be the vapo.
Tye, what seems to be the best programs to accurately test the Phenom please? Also I used Sam2008 TLB Fix tool and Enabled the TLB Fix through his program and find that it yields the same result in WinRAR as the Phenom B2 Stepping did:confused: Any idea on whats up with that?
Yelding as a patched b2 or unpatched b2?
Edit: Read in your DFI thread that it is patched. Of course it will yield about the same as a b2 as long as you disable the same parts of the L3
Stability Update:-
Bad news but good news in a way too.
I had the last setting ~15 hours idling stable (meaning WISE stable) - until I went off, came back and tried opening this Google Book whilst scrolling up and down quickly, whilst zooming in/out: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=T...=en#PPT1546,M1
It froze within 5 secs :(
So I tested more and more idle stability by the same procedure because it worked very well and instant.. would my previously stable settings also fail that test? :shrug:
3010 x1/2900 x3 1.516v / 1.480v - idle failed and load stable
2947MHz 1.516v / 1.480v - idle failed and load stable
2928MHz 1.516v / 1.480v - idle failed and load stable
2914MHz 1.516v / 1.480v - idle failed and load stable
2909/2902MHz 1.516v / 1.480v - idle failed and load stable
2898MHz 1.516v / 1.480v - idle failed and load stable
2870MHz 1.516v / 1.480v - idle failed and load stable
2860MHz 1.516v / 1.480v - idle failed and load stable
2828MHz 1.516v / 1.480v - idle stable and load stable
See how much FAR below real stability was? :(
The difference being, I was testing for instability, as in actively finding it.
All of those settings were UT3, Crysis, Memtest, EVEREST, Prime 95 stable BTW, but they obviously only test portions f the CPU.
I have not dropped volts yet, just changed speed settings before I can finally declare what is stable for daily use. I am very GLAD I've found a way to very quickly test the instability other procedures were not detecting, now I can finally map things out and move on instead of running around in nightmare circles. I skipped a region below 2860 to speeden things up, now I'll test in-between, as I find the stable setting, I'll then rigorously test it with dropping volts until I find the lowest. Before I needed 1.44v for 2860 stable, with this new test, who knows. This is what I'm currently at right now =>
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7...leknownsp6.png
You know, a search will always help you and me especially on something explained on every other Phenom thread page :)Quote:
Originally Posted by d412k5t412
All you need to know is;
VID = not CPU volts, sets accessible voltage boundaries
VDDC = CPU volts
This seems weird, I'll wait to see the b/w numbers before I can comment but latency is a direct function of IMC speed in K10h. So you were testing DDR2-1000 5-3-3-9 2.7-3G NB?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy932
It's expected because it's changing the same CPU performance registers as LIKMARK said ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by LIKMARKYelding as a patched b2 or unpatched b2?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Esau
Edit: Read in your DFI thread that it is patched. Of course it will yield about the same as a b2 as long as you disable the same parts of the L3
There is no one program to properly test Phenom stability, we have to rely on the known honesty of individuals.
The better way I see it is, make sure settings are benchable, Memtest stable, then boot into Windows and test stability in Everest > Prime 95 Small FFT > Gaming > Run that setup daily, open web-browser and start trying to open many tabs/sites incl. many programs from Start menu, and load THIS sites inside browser and start flicking through the pages as fast as you can whilst zooming in and out - don't reboot, keep it idling like 12-15 hours just to see - if its unstable, it'll fail pretty damn quickly. That link I'm giving above is a very good idling stability test for Phenom if you follow that procedure. :yepp:
KTE have you tried a higher NB multi? Above 2.8GHz I get much more stability with an 11x NB multi. Critical test for my cpu is the sandra memory latency benchmark.
Will stay away from ocing that thing for a few days, have work todo.
Things have not really changed compared to the 9600BE it seems, to reach the point where random instability issues occure we need better cooling now. :)
Nope, not tried higher NB multi for stability testing, I'll try it after I get max stable CPU found, thanks. I try keeping below my NB safety range. I don't have issues upto 2380MHz NB at 1.3VID with stability. With 9600BE the easy way to catch instability was Sandra testings for me too, but 9850BE is fine upto 2380 - 1MHz more and it fails [freeze/reboot under Sandra loads]. ;)
Maybe water would help but with my chip, I'm not so sure.
I just noticed while playing above 2.8GHz that the freezing issues occurde much less frequent with an 2.2GHz instead of an 2.0GHz NB.
First i dropped HT/NB/mem speed and relaxed mem subtimings to get 2.9GHz somewhat stable. I sorted out NB voltage as the cause of instability first.
At 2.8GHz i required 1.275V for 2.2GHz nb speed at 2.9GHz it are 1.325-1.35V now. 1.325V are the minimum required for 2.0GHz nb 1.35V are good for 2.2GHz. I have not tried to find the voltages required for 2.4GHz NB at 2.9GHz , for an everest memory test i ran at 1.45V CPU/1.4V NB at the beginning but that was not really stable.
To repeat myself: With 2.0GHz nb speed and 2.9GHz cpu speed stability issues occure as soon as i change the ref HT (201MHz is enough). No such problems with an 2.2GHz nb.
My 9600BE did not like voltages above 1.375V. I have not seen an 9850BE with those limits. Seems AMD fixed that issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by KTE
Now with higher voltages the range we can oc those chips has exceede a bit , say 100-200MHz more that the 300-400MHz average we had with B2's.
After that the issues occuring are similar to those the 9600BE's had with lower volts, freezings during normal workloads specialy.
Due to the higher voltages the cpu can handle temps become an issue now if you don't have high end air or water cooling.
I don't think water will help in your case your temps are ok at 1.5V, more likely your at the the voltage limit of your cpu here. Look at oldguys first results he needs equal voltages for 2.9-3GHz on the vapo. Stability at a given frequency seems to be an voltage only issue as long as temps dont exceed 80° or so.
BTW: I followed your footsteps once again and ordered an xigmatec cooler. Results look awesome for that price.
Yeah, I just had a freeze at the last setting:
2828MHz 1.516v / 1.480v!
That's not possible, given that I've had 2902MHz idle/load stable before at 1.48v /1.464v :confused:
I am checking it again now - what I now did is decreased voltage to 1.45v / 1.421v and so far it has not given me an issue (done a few WISE tests which normally fail, load is still within stable range).
It could be CPU dislike of voltage above 1.44v, its possible - heck anythings possible with Phenom :D
Your point about more than 200HT Ref. is also something I might be witnessing, but I have not tested to confirm this yet. I'll try increasing multi and decreasing HT to 200 to check.
I'm still OK with that though, since I can boot high NB speeds and change VIDs within Windows. I rarely shutdown a PC for my home usages.
I'll try 2200 NB speed through multis now.
As for NB, I had no issue with upto 1.55v for it with 3x 9600BEs on this MB. They all reached 2596 HT/NB [unstable] and 2592 [bench stable] and then crashed after that.
Xig cooler is excellent price/performance :yepp:
MSI just told me again that they'll pass on latest oc BIOS as soon as they have it [meaning they don't yet]. I'm starting to get fed up waiting.
It might not be your lack of vcore that's causing the instability. I think it might be the lack of other voltages you can change, most likely your nb. The nb has a sweet spot for voltage, my 9850 liked 1.325 and it clocked like mad up to 2750. And I meant the memory was at 250*2=500mhz. I have to test it at 1.6v now, it still can't get through cinebench without freezing with 1.575. Also I left the cpu speed at stock with voltage dropped to 1.15v.
Yea that could definitely be true there Oldguy. Since my last post I have booted 2800/2200 at 1.408v ID / 1.376v LD and it is working flawlessly for over an hour or so now => [AOD increased my Vcore on start]
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/943...0stabletr2.png
It seems something other than my cores and their voltages are messing things up. Like Achim and you say, the NB may need massive volts for full stability on the 9850 even 1MHz above stock :confused:
Thanks for the help KTE :)
I knew I could search, but I just wanted to hear it from you :cool:
Have you tried the AutoXpress option yet with your 9850? I have mine on and I got around 500 more points in 3dmark06. :up:
Which program detects the 9850's temperature correctly? In everest I get about a 10-15C difference then in AMD Overdrive.
I hope you can get most things figured out about these crazy phenom. A new BIOS would be probably help since the 9850 is new.
LOL man, no problem. Check this, it was by Sami early December ;) http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=167Quote:
Originally Posted by d412k5t412
Yep I have, I kept it On for all mainly but On gives me more instability than off for some reason :shrug:Quote:
Have you tried the AutoXpress option yet with your 9850?
Can you show me them side by side with volts? I don't get this difference.Quote:
Which program detects the 9850's temperature correctly? In everest I get about a 10-15C difference then in AMD Overdrive.
Here's the setting I'm at now since my last post, managed to get it fully idle/load stable: 2800/2200 1.384v ID / 1.360v LD [you can see my diode temps in P-Tuner]
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2909/stavlexx0.png
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/7...ble1384gv3.png
The DC amps on 12V1 are also correct, 9850 at that setting idles 4.6A at 11.97v. I'll keep those volts and now try Autoclock in AOD or whatever it's called. I know 1.36v ID / 1.344v LD is not fully stable, so the lowest I can go is in between.
BTW Franck the special man fixed the CPUZ validation bug so I can now validate my oc's. Will now finally start to oc for max MHz, had to wait for this - here's 3.1GHz 4-core validated: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=340566
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4096/3100validyg3.png
KTE: I actually havn't updated Everest in a while, and I just did. Now its giving me All 4 cores and CPU temp, before it was just CPU. Which one should I go by? CPU or Core? Thanks :)
Whats PTuner? Is that Motherboard Specific Software?
It's software that comes with Gigabyte GT Power supplies ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Esau
Speaking of which does the 550w version have the voltage increase slider?(see pic)
KTE maybe your WISE instabilities are caused by something other then the CPU,
like a video card/ram/ (hopefully not) motherboard (as I just got one) or a
combination of the above?