Phenom 9500 w/ MSI K9A2 Platinum

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12-26-2007, 12:58 AM
Emperor

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Hi fellas, had to leave for some time. Hope your all enjoying your holidays, best wishes. :D

BIOS mainly but I try AOD too if it works.

P-States won't be that for CPU, it won't boot at that if enabled. That looks like NB VID to me. CPU VID is locked and not the VCore. ;)

How do you know if it was the BIOS which reduced it? Did you start AOD and ever hit Apply? If you did, then that is what reduced it, since you have to choose max volts in AOD to get a high actual VCore value.
Yeah same here. Mine used to be 1.64V-ish and then suddenly went down to 1.458V. What's your CPU VID? When that changes to 1.20VID from 1.25VID, the max volts you can have also falls according to my testing.
AOD. ;)

i mean the cpu vid is 040. i noticed there is some issue with 235HTT. on and off the system hangs at different times despite being on the same load. errata ? 235x11. i've tried vid = 40 ,41 and 42. strangely it doesnt like odd numbers.

not sure waht u meant by wont boot when pstates enabled. for me, the bios always uses the Pstates to adjust the multipliers for nb and cpu, voltage for both cpu and NB.

i know it isnt AOD because for this system i never installed AOD because i felt that it was too problematic for me.

my settings for 235x11.

BIOS CPU volts =1.545

P states=
cpu fid = 6 (x11)
cpu did = 0 (1 )
cpu vid = 042

nbfid = 04 (x8)
nb did = 0 (1)
nb vid = 042

another thing is, i tried to set a NB multi of 7 by using NB fid = 10(14) and nb did = 1 (2) so the resulting multi is 7. but it doesnt work at all. but nevermind.

BTW do you know what are the voltages for the various VIDs??
12-26-2007, 12:59 AM
KTE

Try it Dave and see if its better with the upcoming BIOS. I heard it will have most issues ironed out. ;)
12-26-2007, 01:31 AM
KTE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emperor

i mean the cpu vid is 040. i noticed there is some issue with 235HTT. on and off the system hangs at different times despite being on the same load. errata ?

Nope, oc instability. ;)

Quote:

i've tried vid = 40 ,41 and 42. strangely it doesnt like odd numbers.

I've no idea how you've manged to manipulate CPU VID. It should be locked and it was for mine. It controls core amps AFAIK, and high value is lower.

Stock 9500 is 28 = 1.25V/1.2V
Lower value is higher VID.

Don't have the exact mapping with me here since I can't access the HD they're on. 29 is something like 1.168.

Quote:

i know it isnt AOD because for this system i never installed AOD because i felt that it was too problematic for me.

The new BETA is very good.

Quote:

my settings for 235x11.

BIOS CPU volts =1.545

P states=
cpu fid = 6 (x11)
cpu did = 0 (1 )
cpu vid = 042

nbfid = 04 (x8)
nb did = 0 (1)
nb vid = 042

Firstly, I highly doubt you need the highest volts for 2.5GHz. You need to drop NB multi to 5x (00) and then start oc'ing. Bootup at 225HT ref. It should get to ~2.6GHz through AOD with 1.4V stable.

Try 240 HT ref. through the latest AOD and if that doesn't work, then through the BIOS whilst having low NB and HT.

Secondly, your NB/CPU DID options are different to mine. Mine were 1 and 2, rather than 0 and 1.

Thirdly, you're running lower VIDs than stock on both NB and CPU. That will give you bad stability even if it boots. Put them back to stock or lower if you can, i.e. CPU 28 and NB 36, or lower because that's higher VID=better possible OC. ;)

Quote:

another thing is, i tried to set a NB multi of 7 by using NB fid = 10(14) and nb did = 1 (2) so the resulting multi is 7. but it doesnt work at all. but nevermind.

You'll have to expereiment why. I don't have it to try at all. Maybe it's because of the Mem speed. :(
12-26-2007, 02:03 AM
Emperor

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Nope, oc instability. ;)

I've no idea how you've manged to manipulate CPU VID. It should be locked and it was for mine. It controls core amps AFAIK, and high value is lower.

Stock 9500 is 28 = 1.25V/1.2V
Lower value is higher VID.

Don't have the exact mapping with me here since I can't access the HD they're on. 29 is something like 1.168.

The new BETA is very good.

Firstly, I highly doubt you need the highest volts for 2.5GHz. You need to drop NB multi to 5x (00) and then start oc'ing. Bootup at 225HT ref. It should get to ~2.6GHz through AOD with 1.4V stable.

Try 240 HT ref. through the latest AOD and if that doesn't work, then through the BIOS whilst having low NB and HT.

Secondly, your NB/CPU DID options are different to mine. Mine were 1 and 2, rather than 0 and 1.

Thirdly, you're running lower VIDs than stock on both NB and CPU. That will give you bad stability even if it boots. Put them back to stock or lower if you can, i.e. CPU 28 and NB 36, or lower because that's higher VID=better possible OC. ;)

You'll have to expereiment why. I don't have it to try at all. Maybe it's because of the Mem speed. :(

I am not using the official msi bios. it;s closer to a custom 1.

so this what i will be trying.

cpud fid 4
cpu vid 28
cpu did 1

nb fid 01
nb vid 36
nb did 1

HT 5x
HTT = 225
cpu voltage is 1.537
12-26-2007, 02:14 AM
KTE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emperor

I am not using the official msi bios. it;s closer to a custom 1.

Mind sharing it please? Where or who did this custom BIOS? Any bettter than MSI 113 Beta? :)

Try those. Your VIDs were too low and your NB too high for oc'ing before.
12-26-2007, 02:37 AM
Emperor

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Mind sharing it please? Where or who did this custom BIOS? Any bettter than MSI 113 Beta? :)

Try those. Your VIDs were too low and your NB too high for oc'ing before.

i only tried the original 1.0(iirc) the very first public version tht came with the board.

then i stuck to this bios. it's not really custom, more of..internal?? so i cant really tell u whether is it better than 113

anyway it works. but i am trying 240htt x11
HT x5
core FID 6
vid 25
did 1

nb fid 1
nb vid 36
did 1

POSTs but cant boot. raising nb vid to 30 now. i hope i can hit the big 3GHz

EDIT: boots but takes extremely long to complete the scrolling. rebooted then it hangs when the screen is black with a cursor.
12-26-2007, 02:48 AM
KTE

It must be better than MSI BIOSes as it lets you change VID to what we could not. ;)

I've no idea who modded the BIOS yet though. The new one for MSI hasn't released yet although partners can get hold of it.
12-26-2007, 02:52 AM
Emperor

damn it...cant boot. 240x11
12-26-2007, 02:54 AM
KTE

Then AOD or you'll just be stuck. ;)

EDIT: Hold on. What do you mean no boot?

After you set it, leave it. It may give you a blank screen (if it starts but no POST). Leave it to wait, as long as 2 minutes. If it can start, it'll startup fine in those 2 minutes, slowly. If not, it'll start with "red error message about failed oc" or you'll just have to reset it.
12-26-2007, 02:58 AM
Emperor

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Then AOD or you'll just be stuck. ;)

EDIT: Hold on. What do you mean no boot?

After you set it, leave it. It may give you a blank screen (if it starts but no POST). Leave it to wait, as long as 2 minutes. If it can start, it'll startup fine in those 2 minutes, slowly. If not, it'll start with "red error message about failed oc" or you'll just have to reset it.

please help me check through to see if i missed out anything before i go AOD

240x10

cpu fid -4
cpu vid - 25
cpu did - 1

nb fid - 1
nb vid - 31
nb did - 1

HT X5
12-26-2007, 03:04 AM
KTE

Set both your VIDs to stock before booting. That maybe your problem.

Both DID values should be equal to value 1. (which is 0 in your case if 0=1 and 1=2)

Also look at my edit above. Try 239, 238, 237 and so on on until you can boot. Many Phenoms cannot boot above 230-235-ish and everyone uses AOD to oc higher. I had a ~265HT ref. max bootup by lowering everything, incl. CPU multi but only around 240 with 11x multi.
12-26-2007, 03:09 AM
Emperor

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Set both your VIDs to stock before booting. That maybe your problem.

Both DID values should be equal to value 1. (which is 0 in your case if 0=1 and 1=2)

Also look at my edit above. Try 239, 238, 237 and so on on until you can boot. Many Phenoms cannot boot above 230-235-ish and everyone uses AOD to oc higher. I had a ~265HT ref. max bootup by lowering everything, incl. CPU multi but only around 240 with 11x multi.

shouldnt i be raising the vcore hence lowering the vid?

ok....240x11 really doesnt work. hangs at windows loading screen.

going to lower to 235x11
12-26-2007, 03:26 AM
KTE

As I mentioned before, VID is not the VCore. VCore is separate item in the BIOS and you should put that high if you want to oc, yep. VID for a CPU is usually locked and changing it can effect stability so leave it to stock at best unless you observe more stability with it.

If 240 doesn't work, I would try lower, i.e. 237.

I don't think you'll get 3GHz stable, not even 2.9GHz stable with Phenom at 11x multi. It's the HT ref. which makes everything unstable, below 230 is very stable usually.

As the platform gets better, colder tests will prove where the problem lies.
12-26-2007, 03:29 AM
Emperor

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

As I mentioned before, VID is not the VCore. VCore is separate item in the BIOS and you should put that high if you want to oc, yep. VID for a CPU is usually locked and changing it can effect stability so leave it to stock at best unless you observe more stability with it.

If 240 doesn't work, I would try lower, i.e. 237.

I don't think you'll get 3GHz stable, not even 2.9GHz stable with Phenom at 11x multi. It's the HT ref. which makes everything unstable, below 230 is very stable usually.

As the platform gets better, colder tests will prove where the problem lies.

okok...will try 235x11 ...vid = 28 then

so you are saying 3Ghz is a hard chase ?
12-26-2007, 03:31 AM
Brother Esau

Hi, KTE do you still have you're D.F.I Board? The new Beta Bios I am using is really good probably the best Bios to date cant say for Phenom but I can give you my honest opinion about what I see and feel.

Campbell;)
12-26-2007, 04:10 AM
KTE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emperor

okok...will try 235x11 ...vid = 28 then

so you are saying 3Ghz is a hard chase ?

It is, yep. With 11x multi on air, very hard so far. It's not user error but a Phenom one frankly. :(

Keep trying. It might hit 2.9GHz randomly. I hope you can manage 2.8GHz stable, it runs very well at that speed. A bit like running 4GHz and 3.6GHz on C2D. I've never wanted to go faster 24/7 than 3.6GHz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Esau

Hi, KTE do you still have you're D.F.I Board? The new Beta Bios I am using is really good probably the best Bios to date cant say for Phenom but I can give you my honest opinion about what I see and feel.

Nope, I don't have it anymore although can possibly pick it up again (have to drive over to uncles office). He doesn't return there till the 7th though. The Sapphire RD580 I had (white PCB) is sold long ago though. ;)
12-26-2007, 06:31 AM
Emperor

[QUOTE=KTE;2654372]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

It is, yep. With 11x multi on air, very hard so far. It's not user error but a Phenom one frankly. :(

Keep trying. It might hit 2.9GHz randomly. I hope you can manage 2.8GHz stable, it runs very well at that speed. A bit like running 4GHz and 3.6GHz on C2D. I've never wanted to go faster 24/7 than 3.6GHz.

235x11 is just too unstable for me.. i have no idea why. i am using rams rated at 1066mhz and they are running at 1:2 dividers...at 5-5-5-15 timings.

I keep gettin BSODs caused by drivers irhq.

usb-something is causing the BSODs it seems. trying to reinstall SP2 again!!
12-26-2007, 07:05 AM
KTE

Install SP3. ;)

If it was causing BSODs at stock or 2300, then you need to reinstall but otherwise nope. There is no way the system stable at 2200, 2300 unstable at 2500 is due to anything but the oc.
12-26-2007, 06:36 PM
Emperor

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

Install SP3. ;)

If it was causing BSODs at stock or 2300, then you need to reinstall but otherwise nope. There is no way the system stable at 2200, 2300 unstable at 2500 is due to anything but the oc.

so when using AOD, do i raise the HTT by 1-2mhz and prime for a few mins for stability?
12-26-2007, 08:50 PM
KTE

Yep, go 2MHz on HT up and once you're at or over 237HT ref, start small FFT priming for 15mins. If it passes, move on 2MHz more and then prime for 2mins, and keep going up and priming 2 mins until it doesn't even do 1min. Then you'll see where the chip limit for max MHz, benching and stabile operation is better. Once you get to an area where its failing below 1min, you know that you're max limit for screenshot/validation is very near. You can try after that for max MHz screenshot, max MHz valid, max benchable small apps (Pi), max benchable 3D or max 24/7 stability. It's your choice how you go about it, I did them all.
Otherwise it takes forever and just inaccurate guesses.
12-26-2007, 10:51 PM
Daveburt714

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTE

I have all the released BIOSes, not linkable online but they're on a HD that I can't access anymore. I'll try and see if I can get it to work and attach them on one of the posts here later on. :)

Thanks KTE! No big hurry... I'm waiting for a BE before I jump into the fray ;) .... Sounds like you've had alot of time to test this stuff, so even if you can only recover or remember the number of the best bios you've tested it would be great!

I don't know what it is, but the Phenom really intrigues me! :D
I'm Hoping that by using the tricks you guys have pioneered here, combined with unlocked multi's, may just make for a processor that even makes Chipzilla take notice! At least on a price/performance basis... :yepp:

I know it's all speculation, and I'm sure it's gonna be a PITA... But let's say you tweaked the NB/IMC/HT Bus to thier max stable settings and then found that there were only 1 or 2 weak cores, and you could raise the Multi's on the others!!

Do you folks think there would be any advantage to running Asynchronous speeds on the cores? I think there might be!!!

Be nice to that drive with the Bios on it Man!! :D
12-27-2007, 12:07 AM
KTE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveburt714

Thanks KTE! No big hurry... I'm waiting for a BE before I jump into the fray ;) .... Sounds like you've had alot of time to test this stuff, so even if you can only recover or remember the number of the best bios you've tested it would be great!

Exact opposite actually. ;)
That's why you don't see me getting verbose every other post, starting 10 page discussions or being involved or replying to every other thread on this board frankly. I don't have even ¼ the time that many of the online users here seem to have and yet I don't read the background online articles at all unless I'm at break from work. No time when you have life priorities. It becomes very hectic when you have so many people to contact, report to and get back to or help and to test, critique and analyze your own hardware. Then you have 3 jobs, 2yrs PhD study, your family, friends, local hobbies, errands, health/fitness, serious enthusiasms and so on to cover which is 99% of my time. And computers is probably last of my past times or interests too. :(
However, I've played with the 9500 since around the 10th November and messed about as much as I could without any DIY modding, which I really would've done if I was planning to keep the system. BE should be here soon, we'll see. So far I can get one but I don't usually pay, ever, and the asking price is 240 while its only supposed to be 160. :mad:

Quote:

Be nice to that drive with the Bios on it Man!! :D

I've honestly been fighting with constant reboots with those drives (two of them). None of them are picked up by this system and I've tried SATA, eSATA and PATA peripherals, they just don't get picked up by the BIOS. My SATA ports are definitely dead but the other PATA port is working so it means the board has BIOS issues. What's more, it's an MSI board again. :rolleyes:

Problem is, I won't have another CPU to try on another board which'll have both PATA/SATA free until at least 7-14 days. I'm now trying to get hold of a X2-BE EE, I know my uncle had far too many of them spare at his workplace. A 14 hour drive there and back and I'm tied for a long while before I have 16hrs time free. :(

That all said, don't lose hope just yet ... I'll see what I can do. :D
12-27-2007, 01:04 AM
Daveburt714

I'm not gonna quote a bunch of stuff... But man, it seems like you need a 6 week sabbatical!!! :D

My life is so easy, and I love it!! Guess I'm lazy... I work 3pm-11pm / Monday - Friday... Think I had 23 hours overtime this year;) ... When I'm off, I'm off... No pagers or cell phone/text... I'm a craftsman (printer) I made decent money this year... I still have enough to buy toys... thats a good thing right? :up:
12-27-2007, 01:16 AM
KTE

I don't really compare with people since everything differs in too many ways especially with perception, but yep, it's damn hectic. Worst bit is working 3 jobs (5 days part-time, 2 days full-time: 7 days) and studying/research/practicals for a PhD and another unrelated degree at the same time. Really does shaft the head over, at times I'm like a walking zombie without 7 days of continuous sleep, i.e. last week. :D

In case you didn't know, the only time I have time to mess about with a computer is after 1am every night. ;)

Blacklash: I've seen it. I think we already knew all that and more. ;) ;)
12-27-2007, 05:28 AM
justapost

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzz

JAP- no need to talk to me like that either.

Skipped back a few pages but i have no clue what you mean? Was it my reply to you'r al gore statement?

@KTE I measured all the components again will post the results in detail later phenom seems to require 20-25W DC in idle here. Measuring the memory is tricky the results vary between 1.6-2.1W depending on the modules i remove.

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