Japan quakes

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Originally Posted by MrToad

Admittedly I don't know about nuclear reactors, but I do remember a experiment done is science class in school with butane gas bottles.

The fact was the amount of butane compressed an stored inside the bottle was not capable of, if ignited, generate enough pressure within the container to break the outer shell releasing explosive energy.

Perhaps the engineers did the same calculation with the reactor steel container and the amount of water you can store inside the container can't produce enough hydrogen if separation of oxygen and hydrogen happens through electrolysis to, in case of ignition, burst through the shell.

If that would be the case, and the shell is strong enough (is not a matter of material strength only, but also shape, it takes far more energy to "blast" through a cylinder with domed "ends" than it does to "blast" through a cube) then the reactor effectively can't explode.

If anything the weakest point, which making another educated guess would be the flow control valves, will give up under the pressure and release gases until the pressure within and without the container equalize. But I don't think this qualifies as an explosion. Would qualify as an uncontrolled discharge of gases potentially carrying radioactively charged particles, but according to my basic physics it wouldn't be an explosion.

As I said this is just an educated guess based on very basic physics, I don't have any formal training as a nuclear engineer.

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i´m pretty sure the reactors won´t explode.
but if it´s going on like it is now, the fuel rods will melt down. without any explosion they will melt through the material of the container and through everything that is beneath them. contaminating the whole area forever. if it reaches ground water japan will be without clean drinking water for a very long time.

LWR's don't explode when the coolingsystem is busted. The core meltsdown and most of the radiation stops leaving behind useless climp of fuel, they're flooding the third reactor just to prevent it melting down thus keeping it operational for the future.

The chamber of the reactor isn't tinfoil but about a meter of solid steel and couple meters of concrete around it.

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Originally Posted by s0lid

LWR's don't explode when the coolingsystem is busted. The core meltsdown and most of the radiation stops leaving behind useless climp of fuel, they're flooding the third reactor just to prevent it melting down thus keeping it operational for the future.

The chamber of the reactor isn't tinfoil but about a meter of solid steel and couple meters of concrete around it.

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however there still is a possibility of the core melting through the container and the containment

no one seems to really know what's happening right now but the fact that they're still able to pump water into the core and containment is a good sign


the contradicting reports on the other hand are a really bad sign

Japan earthquake: Meltdown alert at Fukushima reactor - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12733393

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Originally Posted by Don_Dan

I just heard the news that a meltdown is imminent in reactor #2 of Fukushima 1.

Does anyone have more information?

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http://www.japantoday.com/category/n...ar-power-plant

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/...na018000c.html

According to the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12726628


They are pumping sea water to cool, my question is does it come in direct contact with the fuel/rods, if so where does the used water go?

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Originally Posted by vandiesel

According to the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12726628


They are pumping sea water to cool, my question is does it come in direct contact with the fuel/rods, if so where does the used water go?

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Yes, it will make contact interior of the reactor and thus it will be contaminated. I guess they will have to dump it back into the sea, at least parts of it as they are likely to need huge quantities of water to cool the reactor properly.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Swizz

Yes, it will make contact interior of the reactor and thus it will be contaminated. I guess they will have to dump it back into the sea, at least parts of it as they are likely to need huge quantities of water to cool the reactor properly.

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Thanks Dr Swizz, this was my concern, and I see no mention of the contaminated water


cheers

something potentially worrying on the bbc live coverage;

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1422: Japanese engineer Masashi Goto, who helped design the containment vessel for Fukushima's reactor core, says the design was not enough to withstand earthquakes or tsunamis and the plant's builders, Toshiba, knew this. More on Mr Goto's remarks to follow.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Swizz

Yes, it will make contact interior of the reactor and thus it will be contaminated. I guess they will have to dump it back into the sea, at least parts of it as they are likely to need huge quantities of water to cool the reactor properly.

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Is this really true?
From my understanding the water is not in direct contact with the actual rods, or have things progressed to that now?

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Originally Posted by josh1980

I'm guessing I should give up trying to correct people in the forum. I can't tell if they aren't competent to discuss the subject, misinformed, or just confused. Hondacity, you just seem a little confused. But it seems that others have the sole intent to confuse and deceive.

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No please, your input is very valuable.
Thanks a lot for your patient explanations, we do appreciate them :up:

Dont really understand why my posts are deleted?
I just pointed out a lot of Americans are happy this happens because of Pearl Harbour for some obscure reason.

I don't see anything against the rules here? :s

@wez
I don't think it has to to become radioactive...

If the water gets in a zone of radioactivity, it become radioactive too.
This includes people's.

Edit:
@BoredByLife
Because it's depressing, don't fret :).

Ofc its depressing. It's quite sad people think about it that way. But I am just the messenger. I didn't even receive a PM why my posts get deleted. I understand it's not very positive, but why delete it? I am just the messenger, the real problem is the people who type and think such things.

It's not like I do anything against the rules. No freedom of speech on this forum?

I agree with ya dude ;).
Mine were del'ed as well, I was told about it once in pm though.

Once the topic gets rolling, well, it gets worse and worse.
At least mine were :(.

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Originally Posted by BoredByLife

Dont really understand why my posts are deleted?
I just pointed out a lot of Americans are happy this happens because of Pearl Harbour for some obscure reason.

I don't see anything against the rules here? :s

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XS is not a forum to discuss the 'karma of this happening' :wth:

Keep those discussions elsewhere (YouTube and Facebook seem to be happy hosting it), at best it's off-topic and at worst it's flamebaiting/trolling.

Let's keep this thread for information (josh1980's informative posts are GREAT) as well as discussing what's going on with the XS members in Japan (Team Japan, Miah, dctokyo, et al).

EDIT: there is absolutely no Freedom of Speech on this forum, that's made clear by the rules. End of discussion, NEOAethyr and BoredByLife.

This was posted acouple of hours ago

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Fuel rods at the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant’s No. 2 reactor were fully exposed at one point after its cooling functions failed, the plant operator said Monday, indicating the critical situation of the reactor’s core beginning to melt due to overheating.

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http://www.japantoday.com/category/n...ar-power-plant

also a very good read
Nuclear Experts Explain Worst-Case Scenario at Fukushima Power Plant
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...fukushima-core

Why are you yelling at me for now lol...

Anyways to make it easier, here's a link to the page that shows the latest in earthquakes.
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/

US 1+ list:
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquak...quakes_all.php

World 2.5+ list:
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquak...quakes_all.php

Japan is still getting hit hard with earthquakes ^^.
From the looks of it, it won't calm down for a few days at least.

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Originally Posted by wez

Is this really true?
From my understanding the water is not in direct contact with the actual rods, or have things progressed to that now?

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It is true. Water is always supposed to flow thru the reactor core.

According to BBC:

containment vessel in nuclear plant is intact. Radiation stable? (if i understood correctly).

Some ships belonging to the US navy detected increased levels onboard so they moved further away from the plant :

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?not...08615&comments

More according to BBC:

Reactor number 1:
Explosion due to hydrogen pressure

Reactor number 2:
Low levels of water

Reactor number 3:
Same case as reactor number 1. Had to release some steam to relieve the pressure. Main radioactive material is still in containment

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Originally Posted by dctokyo

This was posted acouple of hours ago


http://www.japantoday.com/category/n...ar-power-plant

also a very good read
Nuclear Experts Explain Worst-Case Scenario at Fukushima Power Plant
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...fukushima-core

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That sounds very alarming indeed. :-(
Very good articles though.:up:

Al Jazeera reports that wind is going change direction soon too:
(http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/asia...apan-live-blog)

Sorry, what does "reactor exposure" means? I guess it means it's been exposed to the atmosphere but I'm not sure.

Any1 got any ideas how long it'll really take to get the reactors/core cooled down assuming no other issues turns up?

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Originally Posted by El Maño

Sorry, what does "reactor exposure" means? I guess it means it's been exposed to the atmosphere but I'm not sure.

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It means that the water in the core has partitially boiled off/separated into oxygen and hydrogen. Thus the upper parts of the fuel rods are not even passively cooled by water.
The reactor has en steel container around the core so it is not like this takes place in the open air.

Well reports have now confirmed that all of the fuel rods are melting and no. 2 reactors core are fully exposed.