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It gets more complex the deeper u get into the game. The early stages of combat seem like just regular button mashing but thats just a warm up to get u to get down the basics. Its gets really more complex as the game progresses.Quote:
Originally Posted by randomizer
I hear what u are saying and again there maybe basis for a lawsuit if what u say is tru with Nvidia blocking features, but not for nothing ATI should of responded with some kind of fix to enable the blocked features or contacted Rocksteady and say hey...umm mind working with us on a patch to enable AA on our cards too?Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
I'm not well versed in coding, and i'm basically a noob compared to some of the members of this forum when it comes to pc hardware, but seems like an obvious thing to do unless they really didnt care about the game in the first place and /or maybe had their sights set on other IPs. I haven't heard anything from AMD / ATI on whether or not they will try to resolve the lack of AA support in the game. The article I read kinda gave the indication that they dont plan on doing anything about it. I apologize if ATI has recently come out and said they are working on ways to implement AA in the game.
http://www.techpowerup.com/104868/Ba...PCs.html?cp=10
And why should ATi be working on a patch of that game? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Trembledust
If the game doesn't support AA with ATi cards it's not ATi's fault, but developers fault. They are who program the game, they are the ones who has to provide the features of the game.
If there was a problem of drivers, then it would be a thing on the ATi side, and they should be working to fix it on their drivers. BUT the game doesn't have AA in ATi cards because the UE3 don't have AA, and the developers were too lazy to implement their own custom filter. Ooooops, no. The game doesn't have AA in ATi cards because the developers DID implement it (in colaboration with their official supporters, NVIDIA) and then made a check to not allow running that code if an ATI card is detected on the system.
Alotta people actually thought COD4 was using UE3. Dont feel too bad lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Coldon
I'm tempted to agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farinorco
Hardware developers are supposed to adapt their hardware to games, not make games by themselves...
I will not say it's anormal but i say it scare me a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by gallag
What next NV or ATI come to a developper, code i don't know all the DX11, AA, HDR, what you want of the game and say "i help coding this part so i want this to only work with my hardware".
What we will do?
For me it will be the beginning of the exclusivity like in console market : that will suck :down:
I don't know in which world you live :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by cstkl1
Pretty much proves that AMD can do it, but they just didn't support the dev.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredpace
Hey sounds kinda personal there @ HW makers. Nvidia try to muscle u into including a NF200 chip on the Bloodrage when u were with Foxconn? lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Man listen..U know Intel is rubbing their hands over this whole issue between Ati and Nv saying..."Excellent"
Ok my fault. I really should learn how to multi quote. Sry bout the back to back to back to back to back posts lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredpace
And the funny part is that it runs better then with Nvidia cards! :rofl: That's why Nvidia needs to shut their competition up by sabotaging as much code as they can because that is embarrassing as hell!
Oh its 100% tru @ GTA IV DLC. U are not seeing the DLC episodes for PS3 ANYTIME soon if ever. I thought they did? @ throw up an xbox symbol at the end on the commercials. I probably overlooked it cause I know its Xbox 360 exclusive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
Here are two trailers for the upcoming DLC. Last 5 seconds of the vids u see the xbox 360 symbol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGaCC...rom=PL&index=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiM9k...aynext_from=PL
Well at least it works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadasius
Just on thing...
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/723...x468x636co.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farinorco
So what ATI just sits on their A$$ and takes a loss? They can't contact the developers and say hey listen lets get AA working on our hardware? What's the problem with ATI doing that? They too proud to contact the devs and do something about the issue so their customers are just gonna have to accept the fact they cannot natively run AA on the game and will need to find workarounds themselves?
That just sounds like what I mentioned before that it seems ATI didnt care about this IP in the first place so they aren't going to even bother with doing anything proactive about the AA issue.
Again its possible they are saying..."Ok Nvidia u got us this time...we got something for u guys" and are devoting their resources on future IPs. That's the only viable explanation for ATI not contacting the devs to fix the AA issue in Batman IMO unless the devs are saying no to Ati's requests to enable AA in their hardware.
Why bother crying over spilled milk? It happened. Get over it, and move forward. Make sure this doesn't happen again which I am beginning to believe more and more that is what ATI is doing @ moving on.
You are not understanding the issue here, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trembledust
The in-game AA (not MSAA forced from out the game) is not working on ATi hw because the developers purposely have include a check that disables AA if ATi hw is detected.
The solution that ATI can give to this problem, I can give it too, and they have: "Erase that sentence about IF ATI DETECTED THEN DON'T ALLOW AA" and then, AA will work.
What people is doing to enable AA with ATi cards, is to modify the ATI card ID's on the game to trick the game into think that their card is not an ATI one, and cracking the game to run the modified game despite of the copy protection.
There's no issue with AA. There's a lock put there by developers. That's the whole point of this thread discussion.
I'm sorry. I was under the assumption the thread topic was the fact Nvidia came out and said they did not purposely prevent AA from working on Ati Hardware on Batman Arkyum Asylum and the reason Nvidia was able to have AA implemented in the game with their hardware was that they worked with the devs to insure AA would be enabled ingame on their hardware. Also that AMD / Ati was free to work with the devs as well to insure AA was implemented ingame with their hardware.Quote:
Originally Posted by Farinorco
And apparently there is an issue with AA with ATI cards otherwise this thread would have no basis.
One of the sub topics of this thread is whether or not the devs should of made sure AA was supported for ATI as well as Nvidia hardware. That's the point I was addressing in your last thread prior to this one. Btw the devs arent obligated to do ish thats not in their contracts.
And again I ask has it been documented / confirmed that Ati made any attempts to contact the devs to have AA enabled ingame with their hardware (layman's terms have they asked the lock be removed), and if so what were the dev's response? Did they flat out tell Ati no, and if that is the case is all Ati can do is suggest removing the lock from the game manually?
If the answer is yes then hey that's all ATI can do. If its not the case Ati either screwed up by not making sure AA was enabled ingame (which the Nvidia statement seems to imply Ati didn't put enough effort to do so) on their hardware, or they didn't care about this game in the first place and are focusing on other IPs which is my theory.
If the spirit of the thread is whether or not Nvidia is lying about not telling the devs to put a lock on AA for Ati hardware, and you are questioning their ethics and business practices within the scope of the law...that has no validity in my eyes as the bottom line to me anyways is if no contract terms, or consumer laws have been broken I don't see any reason to be all that concerned about the lock especially if all u can do to enable AA in game is to remove a line. Like I said the devs are obligated to do ish within the terms of their contracts.
Nvidia got a one up on Ati this time. It happens. Ati should just make sure it doesn't happen again.
Just vote with your dollars, don't buy the game/nv hardware. That's what I'm doing :D
EXACTLY!! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by postumus
Ah ha! Just found in another thread a statement from Ian from Ati:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=235487
Aight so Ati did address these issues to the devs, and looks like the devs are working with them. So it seems. That answers one of my questions. I wouldn't be so concerned on why this happened, who's fault is it etc. Least they are working on the problem.
I don't know who is telling the truth, but in any event, nvidia isn't doing against natural law, so I guess we're all going to have to deal with having one vendor that can do some things the other vendor can't.
I've always thought it was ridiculous how AA has always been so unimportant to most people, both developers and the end-users. That's always pissed me off.
Doesn't ATi's EDAA work with 99% of games anyway, regardless of engine?
Yeah, what a novel idea having both sides of the story available to debate. Of course, locking out one sides stance does make the other's easier to be heard! Like I said, you'd have to be pretty naiive to think locking the thread with Ian's position, that started the whole debate, didn't have some strategic significance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trembledust
I said it before, and I'll say it again...Quote:
Originally Posted by flippin_waffles
If you want to say that someone did that for some kind of strategic significance, take it up with the sites admin, as it was his decision to do so. Considering he's not even arguing with anyone here, I fail to see how he did so as some part of a strategy. ;)
Guys this pretty much sums up the whole thing, AMD is being silly, they need to get their act together.
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardwar...-accusations/1
So if NVIDIA screwed the game on ATI hardware by trying to "support" their drivers, next time the developers would opt out of fixing bugs altogether and just leave the game broken?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim
But you were under wrong assumptions. NVIDIA came out and reworded things to look a bit better, but the thing is like follows:Quote:
Originally Posted by Trembledust
>>UE3 doesn't allow using default MSAA because the deferred shading.
>>If you want to use any AA with a deferred shading, you must implement your own custom filter (as if you write an ambient occlusion shader, a motion blur shader, or any other thing).
>>Batman Arkham Assylum uses UE3, so no default AA.
>>Eidos, in cooperation with their sponsors NVIDIA, have coded a custom AA filter.
>>They have took the decision of not allowing that code to run in ATI hw (even when perfectly compatible) by a check that disables it if ATI hw is detected.
What NVIDIA has said, read the communication in the first post of this thread, it's that "they are not disabling for ATI but enabling only for NVIDIA because the UE3 don't have default AA and they have had to program one", that "since they have program their own AA code, if ATI wants their cards running with AA, that they program their own code".
The whole point of this discussion is, is that right? OK, NVIDIA has written (or helped to write) the AA code. So, is it right that they don't allow ATI users to run it? ATI is helping Codemasters to write code for new features implemented over DX11. Is it right if they ask Codemasters to include a check to not allow this code running on NVIDIA hw, since they have written it (or colaborated to it)?
Then, in your opinion, that thread has no basis. There's no AA issue further than the lock to grey out the option for ATI users. The trick to allow ATI cards bypass that lock (cheating the game into thinking that they are not ATI cards by changing the names that the game gives to the ATI cards, to not be able to recognize the ATI cards as ATI cards) actually works.Quote:
And apparently there is an issue with AA with ATI cards otherwise this thread would have no basis.
The basis of this thread, is that there's people here that thinks that as NVIDIA has written (or helped to write) that code, they are on their right to not allow ATI users to run it.
Some others say that this kind of practices are harming to the consumer, because they limit the options it has as consumer, and introducing exclusivity in PC software is the last thing we need now, so we shouldn't stay smiling and give them a thumb up.
That's the point of the discussion.
NVIDIA is not lying in their communication. They are rewording things to give that impression. They are saying "we are not disabling anything, because the engine doesn't support it by default. We are introducing new code that wasn't there before, so what we are doing it's not disabling anything, but enabling only for us. It's our work, so if ATI wants AA, they should code their own".Quote:
If the spirit of the thread is whether or not Nvidia is lying about not telling the devs to put a lock on AA for Ati hardware, and you are questioning their ethics and business practices within the scope of the law...that has no validity in my eyes as the bottom line to me anyways is if no contract terms, or consumer laws have been broken I don't see any reason to be all that concerned about the lock especially if all u can do to enable AA in game is to remove a line. Like I said the devs are obligated to do ish within the terms of their contracts.
They are playing with the concept of "if I would not have coded it, neither you or me would have it. So if I code it and I stop you from use it, you are equal and I have the code, so I am not disabling for you, but enabling for me".
The reality, it's that it's a code written over standard API that work on all standard hw, ATI included, and it's not working because a lock. ATI could say exactly the same about the code their are helping to code to Codemasters for GRID2, for example.
Note NVIDIA haven't said at any moment that there is not a lock (they can't, because that point has already been demonstrated), but that since they and not ATI have helped to develope that code, their are on their rights. Basically.
Uhm, a hard time understanding the issue?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim
AMD did not have to help the dev team to get it implemented, because AA allready works fine on ATI cards if you trick the game into thinking you have an nvidia card.
This really shows just how silly the nvidia PR department is.
What are they claiming ati should have done to get AA implemented in this game?
Maybe "help" the developers remove the nvidia ID check?
:rolleyes: