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Please go back to the thread of this demo and read, I did this demo to show that it was pointless and to show that I could get one GHz over what you guys could get at this time with Few tricks. The demo by Itself was to demonstrate that Manufacturer demos are pointless. Don't forget the point of the demo. I WAS VERY CLEAR!, please stop ignoring the context.Quote:
Originally Posted by massman
YOu are right, we are not going to provide Super samples. If an overclocker is good, he will have to prove it on a equal play ground, I am not going to support a ground of priviledge people. I see how AMD would be interested to do this, This is their choice, but it is soooo misleading for the young kids who will not get what he is reading about.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
In my case, I rather make sure that more people gets awesome performance on the normal channel and let the kids grow by themselve.
I don't see any reason why a little group of people should decide who will get the good parts, this is unfair. :shrug: :shakes:
Let's give a chance to everybody and use a levelled play ground.
Francois
i love you Fancious, will you give my wife some babys please? :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Drwho?
jeez you get your knickers in a twist easy :D heheh
hohohoho .... i am scared now
Wow, i cant believe the amount of crap coming from the mouths of people that dont even have a chance in hell of ever competing in this.
So what if Intel gives out cherries? Since they dont have a team why would they favour any particular team? Same goes for AMD.
Its not like you are going to have a particular test that a super cherry picked AMD is going to even be in the same league as an Intel retail in terms of benchmark performance. Or dont i see it clearly?
That brings us down to the motherboards/vids (manufacturer teams) and supplying them with cherries that the other manufacturer teams wont have. Surely this could be limited to retails only?
If retail boards from competing manufacturer teams are not even in the same league, then its the manufacturer who looks like the tool for having :banana::banana::banana::banana: hardware design.
I would like to propose that manufacturer teams are limited to their products only! While freelance teams can use whatever they want/can get.
BTW Dino I opted out of GB, still too many distractions to even bench for HWBot let alone dedicating myself to this
Soundood, sorry to say but majority of your opinion in this is moot (my opinion only) given that you have no idea what goes on in extreme overclocking behind closed doors/circles
If Intel wants overclockers to rely solely on the retail channel for their chips, then would Intel be willing to provide info regarding what batches have the best electrical characteristics for sub-zero overclocking?Quote:
Originally Posted by Drwho?
That way teams don't have to waste (as much) time & money buying and binning mediocre chips.
You can argue that all chips are different, luck of the draw, etc, but the fact remains that some batches are much better than others.
But everyone has equal access to them so no need. If you dont test many chips, who's fault is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by MACMAC
This would just be a small step towards making it easier for the teams to source their own good chips.Quote:
Originally Posted by T_M
As Dinos mentioned above, not everyone can buy a large number of chips to find a decent one.
The interwebs already documents the good batches
Fair enough, but more detailed info would still benefit everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by T_M
Do you see a downside to what I'm suggesting?
T_M, Did you say that even cherry picked AMD wont be able to compete with retail intel in benches>?
Or did is misunderstand you?
Because as far as I can tell, AMD arent doing too bad, and are keeping up fairly well....
Either way, I dont think cherrry picked cpus should be used, everyone uses retail, then there is no favouritism, and its lucky og gthe draw if you get a better one,
But alteast it will be trying to equal the playing ground, I mean, theres no point having a comp if some teams have cherry picked, and others dont.
I mean, this is less and less like F1, :P
A pitty you only respond to this remark; the remarks above the one you quoted were more interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drwho?
Okay, you're missing two vital points here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Drwho?
1) This first season is only a testing season, which means that there are a lot of people left out now because of less contact with manufacturers or spotting this idea too late. This F1 league is supposed to become the top league for benchmarking, which means that if people want to compete, they'll have to convince the manufacturers that they deserve a spot on the team. To do so, we already have manufacturer sponsored events and hwbot. Integrate these three types of competition and you have a fair competing ~ one where everybody can compete in
2) Within the F1 competition, there maybe should be a certain level of fairness. Why? To exclude the fact that some people win because they have cherry-picked samples while others have to do with rotten retail samples. That's why so many people would like to see Intel involved in this: much like GOOC, they could provide each team with a set of chips (all with same batch) so that the skill of the overclocker is tested rather than the size of his wallet or the luck he has. No one asks for super samples, everyone asks for at least decent samples (again, like gooc). What purpose does an F1 event have if people are playing with average chips?
By the way, since when are we responsible for the deductions of uninformed people? If I see Ronaldo play with Nike, is he to be blamed if I buy Nike and think I'll be as good as him? Is Lewis Hamilton to blame when I buy a car and expect it to go as fast as F1 cars? No.
(PS: l'egalité, typical french, no? ;))
maybe crap in your opinion, but this is after all a forum, that includes free speech? when was it all of a sudden not?Quote:
Originally Posted by T_M
asumption is the mother of all **** ups, as they say, you assume i know nothing, but quite the contrary, i do know a lot of what goes on 'behind closed doors'Quote:
Soundood, sorry to say but majority of your opinion in this is moot (my opinion only) given that you have no idea what goes on in extreme overclocking behind closed doors/circles
and personaly been OC'ing with DICE and LN2 since i would say since the barton days, and also OC'ing since Pentium 1's not that i have to justify anything to you.
just because i dont appear to on this forum, doesnt mean i dont, sorry to break it to you but the world is bigger than just XS forums.
and also i dont feel the need to screenshot every bench i do, and post it here or any other place for that matter, but thats just me, its allways been a personal thing for me.
and anyway what has that got to do with anything? are you saying this is all cloak and dagger stuff we shouldnt comment on? hahahaha yeah right. :rofl:
my opinion stands the same as the first post i made, that i am also entitiled too, and i agree with francious, this should be a fair playing field...period.
if you want to have a competition then there must be rules, if on the other hand you want to have a get together, using cherry picked chips, then be my guest.
but it is not a competition in my eyes, more of a 'rigged' game.
i have made my stance clear on this, and after all i am one of the peeps that should be impressed by this, following some of the overclockers i hold in high regard, competing together in a fair tournament.
allowing us to see who really is number 1 :clap:
GOOC used cpu not cherry pick, even un pre-test in air cooling.Quote:
Originally Posted by k|ngp|n
Mr.Dr didn't bring his cherry picked sets to this event.
damn timbo
sucks to have you not benching like this
i thought you'd do F1 with hicookie for sure :(
If i wasnt working 50+ hours a week in a country where LN2 supply is basically a no go, high end hardware doesnt exist (and try buying online using an Indonesian credit card not to mention the tax ;)) and the nightlife is, hmmm, lets say, fun, then yes i would definately have volunteered to enter.
I agree with this 100% it will be based on luck rather than judgement if ALL competitors are to rely on getting a good retail chip from retail outlets.Quote:
Originally Posted by massman
Amd and Intel have the power to provide evenly matched cpus to provide to all entrants in this compo, its as simple as that in my view.
After all the overclocking community has supported AND promoted AMD and INTEL for years off their own backs.
That would go further to provide an even playing field than any other idea I have seen so far. This way no one can say for example 'my cpu is crap' or some other excuse. Also a very big factor the cost of finding a good cpu or two. poll through the entrants list to see how many can even do that?
lets not set this thing up for people to be pre-armed with excuses. we need an even playing field, lets get it on!:up:
Any of the prviate teams will have to put up a very hard fight in order to be competitive - purchasing multiple CPUs will become very costly. HWbot is a great place for an even playing ground. If the manufacturer teams have a big budget - they should have a nice advantage. For the private teams will there be any prizes? Or is this competition simply for the glory? I would like to assess how far the individual benchmarks are set in stone - to get a basic idea what kind of a bugdet it would require to be competitve in this.
Also I would really get a grasp on the rules. When I went to my first live competition at GOOC I was a bit shocked how loose the rules were - not that this is an issue, but it would help to know what to expect in advance. At the contest it turned out for example that things like "disable post processing" in 3Dmark06 were total fine to be done. No biggie - if we know - all tweaks are go - all tweaks will be go. Just takes time to prepare for that.
QFT!!! IMO this is the main issue of F1 OC.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeguava
Would AMD and Intel be willing to send boxed retail chips to teams to help them pick out a good chip? Without any company support in this area it comes back to- who has the most money to test the most chips and find the best ones. Even if the company gets in touch with the countrys distributer and asks a large shop to take 5-10 off the shelf and send them on, the support is still being given but the companies arent directly dictating batches or cherries.
If its left as it is, it comes back to who has the most money and time to blow on this, which makes it just like HWB but with more spotlights.
I am out of this thread, too many people interested into getting their own agenda established ... Too many free airplane tickets got distributed recently!
I am interested into the young kid who have fun with his hardware, not into the dude trying to make money out of it.
Francois
Mike, I don't see how this is an issue. Just becasue the teams are private, doesn't mean they won't have sponsors & backing :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeguava
For example, Gigabyte has their own team, but they could also sponsor Tom's team with mobos & graphics.
In many ways I would think it could be better...for instance, a private Team could be sponsored with eVGA mobos and Asus GPUs. But the Gigabyte Team would be stuck with only Gigabyte mobos and Gigabyte GPUs (not that there's anything wrong with them).
I think the private teams have the most flexability and the potential for more reasources. :cool:
Think of season 5 when newegg finally signs up to sponsor "Team Newegg"...;)
Is it in the companies best interests to do that? Funding a team that could beat their own with someone elses hardware involved?
I dont mean to be so negative, but I do see a lot of potential pitfalls. Im not sure pitting companies directly against each other will necessarily end well.
I don't think anyone here is looking to make money on this initial venture. In fact this event will likely cost each bencher several hundred to thousand dollars in LN2 and supporting gear that can't be acquired via sponsorship. So don't pull that cop-out, the young kid doesn't have the budget to buy your ridiculously overpriced chips.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drwho?
Remember guys, Francois is not Intel. Even if we all can't get pre-binned chips, Intel Marketing may still be interested in supplying chips to this event. A tray of 975 ES chips would go a long way toward making this event come true, even if you have to cut the number of initial teams in order to guarantee everyone gets a single chip.
That being said, let us worry less about the hardware and more about the actual rules governing this event. Questions still need to be answered like what happens if a bencher needs to quit the season prematurely. How are points allocated for winning a particular month? Who decides at the end of the season if a team needs to be cut or if another team needs to be added?
Don't worry about the chips, even if you are all benching Core i7 920s at 21x220, the fact that something organized like that will create a little buzz. Sure, it might take a few seasons, but like all ventures, if you keep plugging away at it eventually you'll get it right.