Apogee GTZ

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Originally Posted by gabe

I will say only this: the Apogee GTZ only have two things in common with the GTX, it's name and it's function. Expect totally new stuff under the hood.

I cannot disclose anything else at this time, other than the fact that the product is really coming very soon. This is no vaporware. We have never done "coming soon" before, but I see that all my competition does, so what the heck..

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Howdy Gabe! That looks distinctly LGA775 only... what about Nehalem/Bloomfield? Launching a 775-only block just a month or so before LGA1366 is officially lanched seems a bit odd?

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Originally Posted by gabe

You will, you will, it's a question of days now, if not hours.

make sure you bow the GT.. we only ship it bowed now. makes a big diff in perfs. can provide o-ring if needed.

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Wow, this really carries some weight if the manufacturer recommends & now does this themselves. I guess I'll be inspecting my Apogee GT & CPU heatspreader closely when I do some loop work in a couple days to WC my first GPU. I have some Apogee homework to catch up on... :D

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

OCCT?

andyc

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Yes, I can confirm you this for sure, from the author. OCCT is a stability test, not meant to be a heat generator only. If it runs only one iteration, it won't catch system errors effieciently

Back to GTZ:

- the day is getting to its end, still no GTZ :rolleyes:
- At Gabe: Will it be even possible to upgrade it to Nehalem? The socket holes spacing are much distant than LGA 775. So it will need not only a backplate, but also a new top :confused:

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Originally Posted by jonny_ftm

Will it be even possible to upgrade it to Nehalem? The socket holes spacing are much distant than LGA 775. So it will need not only a backplate, but also a new top :confused:

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im pretty sure most block makers will sell a separate hold down plate for nehalem when its launched

Must See Internal Pics :slobber:

Ok, it won't be 30/07 :mad:

Good night

take a chill pill bro, maybe he'll post it at 23:59 =P

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Originally Posted by ThrustSSC

Any chance you can test the Enzotech SWC-Rev. A?
http://www.enzotechnology.com/scw_reva.htm

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FYI, I was fortunate enough to get one of these on the way also..:up:

I always thought that the GTX with the copper top was one hell of a great looking block.

So a stepped base and some really intricate/fine mesh-like copper stuff on the inside (or something along those lines).

Looking forward to it :)

Maybe it'll be good enough to get me back into WC, not that I ever use my desktops any more :-/

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Originally Posted by gabe

very sound observation..

but I'm practical, so let's push this one step further

Either things go back to the way they are.. a few independants doing this as a hobby, for glory or fun, and/or some free hardware, or {suggestion} we take a tight knit community like XS interested in uncompromised data, and set up a fee based section of the forum to publish that data.. There are many practical issues with that, but it could be a way to get it done..

Someone rightfully suggested that reviewers should be compensated. Everybody agress (I think) that manufacturers cannot/should not/must not be involved. So how does it get done?

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Hi all,

I am currently in the market for a new WB and trying to look into the best product came across this thread, and started reading through the posts eagerly to see some test data and analysis...

I have gotten as far as this post and have been following the conversation with interest...

I have to say that what Gabe has said on this point has been correct from the beginning, and that if a reviewer is to be compensated in any form, then that compensation should come from a source with no affiliation to/with any manufacturers who provide materials/products to be reviewed, but from the beneificiaries of the rreviewer...

However this also then passes a burden onto the reviewer who might then feel obligated to provide results for those people who have provided compnesation to receive those results....

In other words I think what Gabe suggested was some kind of subscription part of the site where subscribing users, having paid a fee, could gain access to the reviewers results, and that the subscription fee's would be passed to the reviewing members..... or maybe could be collected and distrubuted to the approved reviewers on a per review basis....

But the situation arises then that subscribing users having paid a subscription to be able to access review data, if for whatever reason reviews cannot be submitted in a timely fashion, then would some subscribing users then feel dissatisfied with the service they have paid for.... to put it another way... the work currently udertaken by Martin et al, is at the moment unrewarded other than with the gratitude of a close knit community here at the XS forums.... I have to say I am a relatively new member, and if I'm honest I feel that I am benefiting greatly from the information that is catalogued on these forums..... I for one would be happy to pay a small subscription fee, for the privelage of being able to have access to the experience and aid that can be found here....

Though truth be told back when I was a beginner at all this, I most likely would have justc clicked away to another site..... so its a really difficult area to address...

What I think I would suggest is a kind of special access area that is provided for users who pay a subscription fee, and that maybe the particular area have a free to view list of: currently available reviews, author of the review, and maybe users ratings of the review as an 'x out of 5' star rating scheme..., and that the special access area also have a one-time access smaller subscription fee for a 24-hr period to a section with only the latest review, or review of their choosing........ so that users only interested in a particular review are able to decide whether or not they want to pay to gain access to that review, based on the knowledge of who has carried out the review etc...

Again this would however be placing perhaps an unwanted burden on the likes of Martin et al, to feel an obligation to provide reviews, and adding pressure on them.....

So I have another suggestion, and that is for a user scoring scheme in conjunction with a user subscription to be renewed on an annual basis that would be accumulated into a funds pool for the forum, that would be administered by a reputable and long-standing senior member, or site administrator...... and for each review that a reviewer contributes, and that other users rate at say 3-4 out of 5, or some other way of showing approval for the review........ that the site admin provide a pre-approved amount to the review submitter, from a pool of the accumulated subscription fee's....

The amount paid for each review needn't be a huge amount of money, as I'm sure that poeple like Martin and others would be appreciative of any gesture of thanks for their work, that might be of assistance to them in subsidising a little of the expense they incur.

This would leave the reviewers free of any burden, would leave manufacturers out of the rewarding scheme, reviewers woud get rewarded based on the quality of the review submitted by them, and also by the gratitude of the Forum User Base...., and the remainder of the forums would still be accessible to non-subscription paying members...!!!!

Anyway with all that said I'm going to continue readin the rest of the thread and gain from the insights posted here...!!!!!

Just wanted to add my 2c's worth....!!!!! :p::):):up:

PS: Wonder if Gabe or anyone else can advise if this is going to come with a AM2 mounting plate, or if one can be purchased optionally... the WB is avaialbe now for pre-order at this site: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=WC-032-SW and it says that AM2 etc would also see possible benefits from the newly mapped surface....but theres no mention of a compatible AM2 mounting kit, or an option of pruchasing one.... I really want o place my order, but need to know this first...!!!!

TIA

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Originally Posted by kazgirl

<snip>

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Nice post kazgirl, there's definately some good ideas in there.

Now, it's around 10.30am here in OZ (July 31st), which means the evening is quickly dissapearing over in the good 'ol US of A, and no internal shots to speak of? :shrug:

getting kind of late for release on the 30th, (1:30 left on the east coast), is this block releasing today?

He's not obligated to release any product at any time for any reason.

He's also on Pacific Standard Time, not Eastern Standard Time. So, its at least two more hours till midnight where he is.

Just relax.

Just my :2cents: here on the "paid tester being paid by the beneficiaries of their work" thing. If a review of a certain product is good enough (favorable), it will spread by word of mouth at various forums such as this one, that product will then start to fly off shelves at a pace that only enthusiasts can make happen and then who becomes the beneficiary?.....the manufacturer.....that's who. It's a double edged sword stuck in the middle of a mine field in the middle of a war zone. Again, it's just my :2cents:, so no need to beat me over the head. :nuts:

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

FYI, I was fortunate enough to get one of these on the way also..:up:

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Hell ya, I love the looks of this block and can't wait to see how it performs. Almost got the SNBW-REVA for my NB but wasn't sure it was worth the extra cash just for some bling. Can't wait for the reviews :clap:

Yea I agree, the manufacturer makes the money not us; I don't see how the users should have to pay in any way other than with donations.

Here's another idea: Martin could have advertising on his site, similar to the business model of SPCR (www.silentpcreview.com). I think that'd be a pretty viable route if the traffic is decent. Martin has been expanding his site quite a bit, so I think it's possible. People "all over the world" would go to Martin's site, not just XS subscribers. SPCR proves that this model is viable because they have established a platform of trust. I think Martin has that trust and reputation with the community, and he can pull it off.

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Originally Posted by migueld

Yea I agree, the manufacturer makes the money not us; I don't see how the users should have to pay in any way other than with donations.

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Well thats precisely what you'd be doing with a small subscribtion for access to not just the one review, but all reviews by all reviewers for the entire year, you'd be making a donation, to show your appreciation of the work that rewviewers have put in, of course if you don't want to make such a donation then you don't have to, you can still browse and use the remainder of the forums as usual, just not have access to the reviews that have been submitted... Maybe an annual subscription of $10.00 thats not a lot of money, but if enough users were to subscribe, then that money could be pooled and perhaps a set amount per review could be distrinbuted to a reviewer based on the users scoring of the review submitted, this would be to prevent all and sundry from submitting reviews of no significance, so that only reviews rated by users as meeting a certain quality would receive the set amount from the pool of funds available.

But ssome people aren't interested in reading all reviews about everything but are perhaps more interested in reading a particular review on a particular component..... thats where the idea of a reduced one time only subscription comes in, say if you are considering replacing a specific component and want to read a review on just that....there could be say a $1.00 one time access fee, that permits access to the subscribed area for a 24hr period, or for limited perid of time.... You could see a list of available reviews before deciding, and guage from users ratings of the review based on the score provided by them for that review, before deciding whether or not you think it may be worth reading or not....

You'd be making a small donation towards the pool that is used to reward reviewers for their time spent and effort made in providing us with an unbiased honest evaluation of the product in question, somethng which is not eay to come by these days....

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Here's another idea: Martin could have advertising on his site, similar to the business model of SPCR (www.silentpcreview.com). I think that'd be a pretty viable route if the traffic is decent. Martin has been expanding his site quite a bit, so I think it's possible. People "all over the world" would go to Martin's site, not just XS subscribers. SPCR proves that this model is viable because they have established a platform of trust. I think Martin has that trust and reputation with the community, and he can pull it off.

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I do understand and agree that yes, if a particular product is rated highly by a reviewer that the manufacturers ultimately profit as a result, however it swings both ways, if a product is rated as being poor by a reviewer then that same product will most likely sit on the shelves...

so if any manufacturer were to consider sponsoring such a reviewer in the manner of advertisments on the users site etc, then of course the impartiality of the review falls under question, which then obviates any benefits of the review in the first place.... by charging or receiving money from any manufacturers for placing an advertisement on their site, the reviewer would essentially be endorsing that manufacturer, so thats clearly not a viable option...!!!

And we're not talking about Martin alone here, there are other reputable and appreciated users who submit their reviews here, some of which may not have sites of their own dedicated to their reviews, so how would they be rewarded....!!!!

How many of you buy a car without first having paid for it to be checked over, or maybe even buying a magazine to read up on the attributes of a boat, if your buying a dog you pay the vet to check it out first etc... you don't even think twice about it, but yet, when it comes to similar for PC parts, you make a huge fuss about the possibility of not being able to access something without having to pay for it in some fashion..... :shrug::shrug:

Hi Andyc...

Thanks for clarifying your thoughts and feelings on the subject, I only stumbled into this thread whilst looking for data on the new GTZ block and after reading some of the earlier posts I got the impression that many users felt they wanted to show their appreciation for the work that you, Martin, Scott and others do, or that it should be rewarded in some fashion...

I feel the same thing myself, and just wanted to offer my own thoughts on the matter in response to the posts I have read in this thread.

It would be nice to know that users like myself can show appreciation for the work that you all do, that we ultimately benefit from, it saves us more in $$$/£££ from having to buy and try, and replace different components etc...

Somehow just saying Thank You in a post doesn't seem enough after all the hard work that you all put in, even if its a passionate hobby that you enjoy doing...!!!

I also appreciate that none of you should ever under any circumstances feel any obligation to carry out the testing and reviews you provide, and thats why I made the second sggestion above (in response to an earlier reply from Gabe who was in turn responding to others posts calling for some kind of renumeration from the manufacturers where he suggested that forum users initiate some kind of renumeration if thats what was felt), so that this kind of situation would not/could not occur...

I am sure that you are all aware of how much all your hard work and efforts are appreciated by all the forums users.... and I'm sure that I speak for everyone else when I say this.

I think at the end of the day though that if everyone is happy enough with the status quo, then there's no need to change anything....

Just wanted to say Thank You...!!!!:up::up:

The problem with the "24 hour access fee" is that there's nothing preventing someone from simply making a copy of every review on the board. Similarly the problem with a subscription board as you pointed out earlier is that the users return on investment is dependent on the reviewers providing timely reviews. Furthermore it then adds overhead on the board maintainers in trying to determine how "useful" particular reviews are so that the revenue can be distributed equitably to all the reviewers.

Because of all these problems, I think a simpler and more straightforward approach is to simply have paid reviews. You can think of it as buying a subscription to a single review. For instance, say Martin posts a review of a new CPU block. XS could put the review up and put a fee for viewing it, say a one time payment of $5 - $50 (whatever everyone decides is fair, would have to be worked out such that it's affordable, but sufficiently compensates the author). Once you've paid to read a review you can come back and read it anytime you want. The money then goes directly to the author of the review (or if it's a joint review to the authors divided as they agree when they post the review). I'm sure even it $5 a review martin could make a killing on here and would be more than amply rewarded for his efforts.

Now, for the problems with this idea. First, Martin is very good about comprehensive reviews, when he posts a review it's usually on a broad swath of products. With a pay per review system the temptation would be to break such all encompassing reviews into multiple reviews, one for each product (not saying martin would do this, I'm just playing devils advocate :up:). There's also the question then of when posting advice to other members who ask questions, do we respond with bits of knowledge we've obtained from one of the pay reviews, or do we post a link to the review and tell the person to buy it? On the one hand, by reading the review the knowledge has effectively been transfered to us, but on the other hand by redistributing that knowledge for free we're depriving the reviewer of compensation.

For what it's worth I mostly agree with MCoffey, I don't think subscription items are a good idea on here, my previous post was really just analyzing and offering suggestions on other posts. I do feel some sort of standards body such as ISO or UL needs to be established by the manufacturers jointly to provide guarantees of accuracy on reported figures, but that really has nothing to do with us or this board.

omg posts are starting to get long
and still no internal???