Bleh...I guess i'll have to start hunting...
Btw, I've NEVER had good luck with dividers...so....
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Bleh...I guess i'll have to start hunting...
Btw, I've NEVER had good luck with dividers...so....
Sorry to say this but I ordered an opty 165 oem from monarch on the 17th of May and I got it today and its a CCB1E 0606VPMW not a 0610DPMW. I have heard good things about the 0606VPMW though so I am not upset yet, lmao. I will report back tonight with results.
*EDIT* Top is off, results will come soon.
30 mins huh? Looks like I've wasted a lot of time and effort. I had my proc at 3.0Ghz last week, stable for two hours...argh.Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
Totally disagree with you there m8. 30min is far from 'prime stable'.Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
You need to do at least 12hrs to be considered prime stable in my book. Im only 100% satisfied when I have completed a 24hr session.
agreed. a lot of people have different ways of determining stability, but a nice 12-24 hour prime is probably the best way IMO. i usually do 8-12 because i cant leave it running for 24 hours without wanting to play a game or so.
12hrs is rediculous.. 2hrs is fine, straight from the writer of prime95.
Personally I just let Rosetta run and if no WU's error then I'm good. That combined with gaming, since the added heat from the video can make it crash sometimes.
Got some results! Things are looking good. It failed prime at 1.43V 2.8Ghz and I was like WTF! So I took off the waterblock and it turns out I put one too many layers of electrical tape on and half the core wasnt being cooled so I reapplied ceramique and booted at the same voltage and have been prime stable since. I have a feeling it can make it to 2.8Ghz at stock voltage. I also have to say that the memory controller on the CCB1E is much stronger than my CCBWE.
Add me to the chart, more results will be coming but 0606VPMW isnt on there yet.
Model: 165
Stepping: CCB1E
Date: 0606
Package Code: VPMW
CPU Frequency: 2808
VCore: 1.43 in bios
Cooling: Watercooling
Load Temperature: 38C
Prime Stability: Prime Stable
you can disagree if you want... but anything more is a waste of time in my opinion. what are you stabilizing for? if i prime stable for 30 min, there isn't a program i own that will freeze, or cause win to reboot.Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobie dave
30 mins for benching only defeats purpose imho. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
Nice babalouj :) Now try 3.0@stock, quick, no messing around :D
LOL, I am too scared to try 3Ghz because I piss myself. I have had phase and watercooling for a while and never been able to get to 3Ghz because of cold bugs and crappy clockers. This may be my chance to get to the magic 3Ghz. I am currently moving up in 50Mhz jumps so I can see the actual characteristics of this chip. I am currently priming at 2.85ghz with 1.43V. It sucks that I will be moving to Charleston SC on Thursday because with packing I wont be able to overclock as attentively as I would like but I will post updates as they come.
lol, you guys are slow.. I always start at some uber rediculous thing like 3.0@1.35 then move down! haha, i'm opposite of everyone..
That way is really efficient though, allows you to find the max in ~30mins :)
Definitely. There is nothing stable about 30 mins in prime. Its its Prime "stable" at all it should be able to go at least 8-10 hours without an error. Prime stable means it can run days without an error, not 30 minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobie dave
Its no wonder there are so many high overclocks on this forum. Some people only run Prime for 30 mins lol.
I would like to see where he says that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Repoman
This is from the Prime95 Stress.txt file.
Quote:
Q) How long should I run the torture test?
A) I recommend running it for somewhere between 6 and 24 hours.
The program has been known to fail only after several hours and in
some cases several weeks of operation. In most cases though, it will
fail within a few minutes on a flaky machine.
Quote:
Q) A forum member said "Don't bother with prime95, it always pukes on me,
and my system is stable!. What do you make of that?"
or
"We had a server at work that ran for 2 MONTHS straight, without a reboot
I installed Prime95 on it and ran it - a couple minutes later I get an error.
You are going to tell me that the server wasn't stable?"
A) These users obviously do not subscribe to the 100% rock solid
school of thought. THEIR MACHINES DO HAVE HARDWARE PROBLEMS.
But since they are not presently running any programs that reveal
the hardware problem, the machines are quite stable. As long as
these machines never run a program that uncovers the hardware problem,
then the machines will continue to be stable.
I think i'm just going to start running Prime for 30 mins too. That way i can brag about how most all my chips hit 3GHz because with the right voltage i've got three 0610's in a row that will all do 3GHz for 30 mins.Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
That's what I do!.Quote:
Originally Posted by Repoman
Anyway, mine seems to have a good mem controller.:D 2.9G with the 10 divider: Still on air, but not for long :)
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/309...028v5bg.th.jpg
you want to sit there for 12 to 24 hours watching prime like a moron go right ahead. once i find a clock that doesn't prime at 30min, i back down two HTT and prime for 2 hours, i would never go beyond 2 hours, its rediculous.
30 minutes is way more than reasonable for benchmarking, most people don't test stability at all for benchmarking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinvented
This long enough for you burninggrave?
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8...14259oj.th.jpg
For most of these chips (especially ccb1e) prime is completely useless, if it doesn't error in the first hour or so it never will. Some people don't like to waste time :rolleyes: Not to mention the fact that Rosetta is MORE stressful than prime, and I've been running it for the past week.
So please, if 30mins is enough for him, it's enough for the rest of us.. :rolleyes:
Oh, and btw..my ccbbe 0610..
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7...z15v3hm.th.jpg
can I start bragging about how all my chips hit 3GHz with the right voltage now :rolleyes:
edit: hmm, I think about 5 seconds of prime is reasonable for benching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
^^ that's what i do, hit a wall, lower clock by 5HTT and then leave rosetta running.:)
Now, now...settle down fellas! Remember, we're supposed to keep this thread clean. ;)
So, Repo...if i go for another 170, should i try Monarch?
If all you use the machine for is benchmarking then sure 30 mins or 2 hours even is probably more then enough but for a 24/7 machine thats considered stable? Not in my book or anyone that understands the idea of being "Prime stable". Just because your system doesn't lock up or reboot doesn't mean that errors aren't occuring at different times. Errors cause data corruption and or miscalculations in software. When Prime95 detects an error your system doesn't lock up or reboot does it? Well your system doesn't lock up or reboot when your CPU is spitting out a 2 instead of a 4 while your using it ither.Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
I really think there should be a standard we set in order to be entered into any kind of database here because that way things would be more accurate. When you've got some people testing for 30 mins and others for 8 hours and others for 24 hours you have really mixed results. Plus it just sorta annoys me when you got people bragging about a 3.1GHz overclock or something and they failed to mention they only tested for 30 mins while i'm making sure i test for at least 8 hours. But hey, maybe i'm the only one that feels that way :).
nice clocks Repo, you've done some killer OCs.
Repo is right about Prime not failing in 30-60min. after that period of time, the failure rate is dependant on temperature only. it WILL fail if you prime long enough, its just depends on when you get enough temperature variance. as many other well known OCers have described, they've seen prime fail due to 1/10 of a degree difference after 24+ hours of priming. so all i can say is... total waste of time.
edit: to reinvented
Up to you man, no way I would do it.. I've had great experience with dividers :) and 165's
Basically.Quote:
Originally Posted by burningrave101
itznfb knows how it is :D
If I can't sell this CPU then, and recoup some money, then I'll either get a 165, or i'll open this box and see what she can do. I'm sure I might be able to hit 2.8 around the voltage that I need.
More than likely, I will try for a 165 though...
@Reinvented, i would save yourself the hassle. good 165 steppings are so much easier to find. you get a CCBBE and you're pretty much gauranteed 2800+
almost always higher though
im gonna trade in my opty that does 3.0ghz at 1.475v for a 165 ccbbe 0610, plus 130 cash. is that a good deal or not?
I know man! It's temping! But, I'd still rather try and find that golden 170 ya know?Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
i wish you the best of luck man! and if i spot a good stepping you'll be the first to knowQuote:
Originally Posted by Reinvented
zoomx, if you really want dual core, then go for it, i'd confirm the prices with someone else though, as i'm not too familiar with single core value.
Sounds like a great deal to me. $130 cash is $130 cache. A 0610 should be good for at least 2.8-2.9GHz with enough voltage.Quote:
Originally Posted by z00mX
temperature is all. it also depends on weather your mobo is ok, any hot spots on that, ram, and this can kick errors out which look cpu related.
mine, i prefere the , if it runs, its stable aproach.
i can prive on core 1 for 24/7 if i wanted on passive water at 3ghz. and 3.15ghz on chilled, but core 0 craps out at 2.9 no matter what temp or voltage, it will allways crap out after so long,, some times 12 seconds, other times 2 hours.
but as there isnt a game or benchmark that uses the cpu to 100% for more than a few mins, why should it be 100% stable.
80% stable is usually good enough for months of usage without problems.
i guess ill do the trade :woot:
Well it looks like something is holding me at 2.9ghz, I will burn this sucker in after the move.
*EDIT* It was bios corruption that was holding me back. Repo's suggestion of trying to boot at 3Ghz did me in, LMAO. This CFX3200DR is a sensitive board and likes to get corrupted when pushed too hard. 2.9Ghz takes 1.52V so it looks like some burn in will be worth while.
I just run prime. If it can do 5 mins, I clock higher by 100mhz. With my CCBBE 0610. I started high at 2.8Ghz at stock voltage. It worked! So I did 2.9. 5 mins later I let it prime for 12hrs when I went to school.Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
:lol: Sorry man, doesn't work for everyone :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by babalouj
lol, i've corrupted my bios trying to boot too high too soon many times.
nice!
I got my new build up and running on my desk now...and I got a RMA refund from Egg, so i'm gonna grab another processor for sure now...although stepping I am unsure of. ;)
IMO, and from what I've noticed as a pattern with prime, and maybe just it's behavior interacting with my 165 CCBBE 0610, if it primes past 2Hrs, it's rock stable. Anywhere between the first min to thirty mins is the critical pass. If your setup passes that, it is 3D stable, and could probably handle whatever you throw at it. Next pass is between 30mins to around 2Hrs. If it craps out just before 2hrs, it's more than likely stable as hell, but if it bugs you, bump up the voltage ever so slightly.
So far I've owned an Opty CCBBE 0610, and an Opty 170 CCBWE 0609FPAW(which I still have...any takers?) and during my experience priming with both, if ever the two prime for over two hours, THEY DON'T FAIL AFTER. I guess I don't wanna say it's a waste of time to keep priming after, but...it is. Pretty much everything else over two hours is lame bragging rights.
It seems that the most intensive program anyone runs here is rosetta. If a thirty minute primer setup can handle that, then a general, run o' the mill OC'er doesn't need to worry about anything else. If you're using your machine for very valuable calculations, or as server, or etc. then I can understand why being so "prime stable" is so important, that is if you are super paranoid. But who the F$#@ buys expensive components to OC so they can do these type of task? The answer: very wealthy enthusiasts that could really give a damn.
I agree with itznfb, and repoman---->anymore than two hours is a waste of time. Yet these are opinions, and it seems that some here are enlightened enough to know that whatever is in a readme must be the certain truth...
With my board, it has been a b#$ch to configure the DRAM settings to work well with my clocks, but the CCBBE has been very kind to me. Once you get the hang of it's taste in settings, you will never get a BSOD, or a lock up, or a random reboot. Ever since I reinstalled windows, and decided to take a slower route in OCing this badboy, I've been flying.Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
My most stable setting so far is 2.86Ghz@1.39V, with :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty ambients. I'm at 2.9 1.42V right now, but I think things might go better if I switch my machine over to my other room where it can stay nice and chilly by the AC.
I run prime while I'm out for 12 hours. I don't sit there and stare at the screen. I leave it unattended.Quote:
Originally Posted by phi|os
I've had it fail between 2 and 4 hours, and that isn't very stable for running games, etc. I certainly wouldn't run Rosetta on it after it fails. Usually it's just a temp issue. But it needed to be fixed. In fact, I just had prime fail on me. I came home today and saw that it stopped after 12 hours. I ran blend, so I will run it again tomorrow while I'm in class, with better ram cooling.
^
^
^
If my setup passes 30mins of prime, it runs smooth as butta. But it is most certainly a temp issue. The best to test is to prime and then run something very 3D intensive. Half Life 2 is a crappy test, because it doesn't heat up the GPU. FEAR is a good one, and should get your GFX card nice and toasty, so you can see how your processor reacts to other variables in your machine. I would assume high DRAM voltage could be a factor too. You can always just throw a fan in the case to blow down on the RAM and CPU.
for a golden 170, what you want is a CCB1E 0550VPMW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinvented
let see what time was my lost post 10:22 my time, its now 11:10, i just spent almost an hour because i couldn't reset my corrupted bios :slap:Quote:
Originally Posted by phi|os
i hate msi
wow, itznfb. your 0615 did better then the 0610? that worries me, lol.
Wow, that sux. Have you tried killbios on Tmod's bios cd?Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
Well 2.9Ghz @ 1.52V fails dual prime in 5 seconds (core 0). I guess I will just leave dual toasts on at that speed and voltage all night and see what happens. Is that the suggested way to burnin? Oh and please no negative comments on burn in, it is a well known phenomenon in the integrated circuits world, sensors actually go through this process as part of their calibration.
Can anyone tell me witch prime test to use to test stability? I belive small FFTS is the most stressing on the cpu, but I see there are some that runs Large FFTS. If I run large FFTs it could run for hours more than small FFTS.
Any good going 170 Steppings known since the 0550VPMW?
Run two instances of Prime, one small fft's, the other large fft's. Your choice if you want to give them affinity to each of your cores, lets you know which one is weaker when one craps out. Good luck!Quote:
Originally Posted by ekjr
Regarding what's stable or not, I can agree with both arguments, but from my experience (2 SC and 4 DCs) with DCs when prime fails is 99% due to heat. What does this mean? Well while you don't stress the CPU as much as prime, you can tell stable anything that fits your needs.
I use my comp for benching, gaming, web surfing, email, movie watching and music listening. I don't care if I get some corrupt download from time to time if I can run a DC at 3ghz instead 2.8ghz. Of course other's opinion is also 100% valid. Do we need a definition for stable? Well at dfi-street it's 8hr large FFTs, here we can diverge because it's XS, and XS stands for XtremeSystems not XtremeStable :D
So each one feels comfortable with its own definition. Case closed? ;)
P.D. to those that say here in XS are a lot of 3ghz chips, well maybe they're not 24hr prime stable, but I'm sure many of them are used 24hr at those speeds (like mine before I killed her :( )
8hrs of one instance? or two?Quote:
Originally Posted by mursaat
I tend to leave it running when I go to work/sleep at night. I have better things to do than watch prime also. :slapass:Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
If you only prime for 30min then your making false stability claims.
Agreed, the very bare minimum should be 2 hours at least and lest we go overboard no more than 12 hours should be needed IMHO :)Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobie dave
i use 30 min primes for benching and numbers, for complete stability i use 2hr, anything beyond, as i've already explained is a complete waste of time and resources. it may prime for another 100hours, and then on hour 101, then temperature in your room may change 1/10 of a degree and prime fails. when stability testing you're testing to make sure the chip is stable at the current voltage under full load. an OCed chip will ALWAYS fail at some point if not kept in a contained thermal environment. if i could somehow keep this room at 20c all day everyday, nothing could change that, then i could run 335x9 prime for years, until the chip dies in fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobie dave
false stability claims. i don't think so. why don't you not make false accusations. i know what i'm talking about.
on another note: if you guys really want to argue with me about this, i'm going to work, so send me a PM, i'll argue about all day, and i'll eventually convince you... but i'd rather not see this brought up again in the thread. there is a lot of good information in here and i don't want to be a part of it getting so far off track that it gets shut down. everyones opinion has been strongly stated. so let it be, or take it to PM.
Hmmz... Sorry I ever asked :(
But I didn't ask for a definition of prime stable, just for how long you have to prime to get prime stable in the database... What's prime stable or not will allways be a discussion I think :rolleyes:
Unless a minimum is statedQuote:
Originally Posted by ChkDsk
I am in no way claiming that some ppl included in the database are dishonest or that their OC's are not stable but not having a specified acceptable minimum will always lead to this same discussion
Is this prime stable???
http://home.no/erikkjos/3GHz3timer.JPG
My suggestion is to let SP2004 run 1 round.. So about 3,5hrs... But this discussion will probably never end... Maybe another thread with a poll will do the trick for the DB. This thread is to show results (prime or not primestable) and ask questions, ... (thats my opinion, no offence)Quote:
Originally Posted by ekjr
Has anyone removed the IHS from his CCBBE 0610DPMW? What temps are you getting? My IHS is still on and I think the temps are pretty good... And a 3100MHz 6hr prime isnt bad either.... Still, I'm wondering. :p: My only DC with the IHS on and the best clocker... Can't believe it :stick:
Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
I don't think you do.
:am:
going a step further in the prime stable discussion , is it considered stable if it can pass 24h dual prime95 at winter but creashes instantly during summer due to higher ambient temps ? my ambient temps wary quit a bit since im in northern sweden where temps wary from 30c to -35c not so much inside though ;) but still primeing does give me no clue wheter my machine is stable or not , unless i run it 24/7 365 and that kind of defeets the purpose of having a fast dc when prime uses 100% cpu :P
Regarding databse entrys i think anyone reading them thinking they can just by the same stepping and get the sam oc is a bit off , isnt it smarter to take the average oc of a known stepping and ecpect somwhere around that speed ?
perhaps wee should start a thread where we can discuss what is stable and not further ?
Regards
Smurf
What he said...:fact:Quote:
Originally Posted by Getttosmurf
AgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by ChkDsk
Well it seems like my burn in session was a complete success! I couldnt boot at anything lower than 1.525V @ 2.9Ghz last night and prime instantly failed at that. Now after a 10 hour burnin with toast I can boot and prime for 14 minutes at 1.475 (turned prime off after my shower to turn toast back on, it didnt fail after 14 minutes it was stopped).
As for the stability discussion. Throughout all my experiences with the A64 series (I have had about 9 chips, not alot compared to a bunch of people around here) I have found that 30 minutes of prime (large fft) + windows memtest at the same time for single cores and dual prime instances (large fft) + windows memtest for 30 minutes 90% of the time can tell stability. After that I run dual super pi 32m's and then loop 3dmark 06 for 30 minutes. Once I got all my chips to pass that, I never had problems. Most of the time if you fail prime after 2 hours or so its a memory issue in my experiences even when running large ffts. If people want to run 24 hours of prime to be sure they are stable then thats fine with me. Usually when I get to a stopping point when overclocking I will run prime at night until I get home from work the next day. Its nice to see that it can pass over 12 hours.
ghetttosmurf and chkdsk made some good points. regarding the DB, it is meant to be a GUIDE, not a "if you buy 'this' you will get 'these' results". if you guys really want a concrete answer on how to get your OC into the Prime Stable category in the DB, then i think chkdsk had the best idea, let prime run for 1 round. if its 1 round prime stable, then its stable enough for the database. unless someone is really against this decision, this is the way it will be. from here on out, i will enter Unknown in the Prime Stable Category if you don't provide ss of 1 round completed in prime. if it isn't prime stable, but benchable, i'll enter Benchable in the category.
Another comment on the database. I don't feel this is MY database, so I am more than willing to listen to everyone's suggestions. I've already made tons of changes based on other peoples suggestions. Hell I re-wrote the entire thing last week because of a single suggestion. I would like to get this method of entry to be a standard way of stepping results analytics. and i'd like to get it up on the web so anyone would be able to enter their results, no matter what chip, intel, amd, so on and so forth.
last run before i switch over to the 0609FPMW
On what research though is it a complete waste of time and resources? Do you even have a clue whether or not the data being processed from your overclocked CPU, that is not Prime stable, is even accurate? If you get rounding errors in Prime then that means your processor cannot calculate numbers accurately when under full load and at different points it most certainly is falsifying the data it is outputting. If all it takes is a 1/10 of a degree in variation to crash Prime for you then your system isn't stable and needs ither better cooling, more voltage, or you've pushed your chip too far and need to back down a few MHz. A stable machine can be left running for hours and hours and without failing Prime. Its when you push the chip too far and its already reaching temps too high or you have voltage fluctuation caused by your power supply or power regulator on your board that slight variations cause Prime to fail. The author of the original Prime95 program suggest leaving it running for at least 6 to 24 hours and even goes on to say that it can take days to find an issue with a system. Now likely you would never find that issue in everyday usage but then again you may fire up a program one day that does. Point is though that a measly 2 hours should not be considered Prime stable. You can say that it passed Prime for 2 hours but to say that its actually "Prime stable" is false in all actuality if your not even running it the recommended time. You can argue all you want but the simple fact is i dont think you have any qualified understanding of the inner workings of a processor to be able to tell someone how long is long enough to equate to a stable processor outside of what you personally feel to be right. No crashes or lockups does not mean no errors. Thats actually that farthest thing from the truth. You can think of it the same way as you do your RAM. If you overclock it too far and its spitting out constant errors, you can still opperate the system just fine. It will still boot into Windows and you can still run your programs and they probably wont crash. But most likely down the road your going to start getting blue screens and finally corrupt the data on your hard drive.Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
IMO the reason some of you choose 30 mins or 2 hours is not because you have better things to do, but because you can't get the processor Prime stable at those speeds you're trying to run for any long period of time and if you had to run it for 6-8 hours you might have to back your clock back down a little and it wouldn't look as good in your sig or in the database. I run Prime while i'm browseing the internet and carrying on with my business and other things online. You dont have to completely leave the system to run Prime. You shouldn't run a whole lot of programs though because that steals CPU cycles away from Prime but just a web browser and simple applications are normally fine. When i'm going for a long run though i usually leave it running when i leave to go do something.
If a CPU is remotely stable it should be able to handle at least 6-8 hours of dual Prime Small FFTs. On hardforum the time is 6 hours to be entered into the database. On dfi-street it is 8 hrs large FFTs but it should really be small FFTs if its CPU overclocks. I think 6 hrs should be the bare minimum for an overclock to be entered into the database.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChkDsk
It should also be pointed out that CPU-Z normally reports low voltages on the DFI boards at least and that what CPU-Z reports isn't the actual voltage being used. You should only report the voltage actually set in the BIOS because normally that near exact what the voltage is if you measured it with a DMM. For example on my Expert board i'm testing at 1.42v (BIOS) and CPU-Z is reporting 1.392v. Thats only .028v differential but i've seen it as much as .044v+.
On that note i'm going to just drop out of the conversation though because i think we've all went off on this subject for a long enough period and should get back to discussing actual overclocks instead. I got a new CCB1E 0609FPMW in yesterday so i need to test it out today :).
Quote:
Originally Posted by burningrave101
Well put
you have got to be kidding me
if you really want to waste your time that much, and want to thread crap this bad, then take it somewhere else, and submit your info elsewhere
Who are you referring to?Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
*sigh* why the hell are we still on about prime stability? i thought we were over it already? Please, go thread-crap elsewhere burninggrave101. Your not wanted here. It was clean, until you opened your mouth.
Now, itznfb, more pictures please? ;)
anyone who wants to argue the point this much, i've already said do not waste the space in this thread with mindless factless arguments. if you really want to aruge about it, send me a PM.
i'm at work :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinvented
i wish i could remotely play with my BIOS. all i can do is remote in a look at it basically.
Additional Comment:
this is my last comment on the prime stability DB issue, and should be the last comment period
as i've said before, the database is a guide for what you may be able to expect out of a certain stepping. not a who can prime the longest competition. and just so you know, just about every 3ghz OC in the DB provided a 12hr+ prime SS.
@itznfb off topic...look at your PM...
Regards,
Primoz
Flickerdown has retail 165 CCB1E 0609 FPMW's for $355 or so. Says the 246 3 Ghz cpus he sold had the exact same steppings. I have about the same steppings on my 170 so I orderd one.Quote:
Originally Posted by z00mX
i wonder why the older chips are surfacing again. for the past couple weeks we've been seeing 0610's, now we are seeing 0609's, and 0606's. i guess its better than seeing 0551's :p
i missed this post yesterday....Quote:
Originally Posted by blazin-asian
i don't think its better, i've learned to tweak this mobo a lot in the last few days, and i'm starting to get some more performance out of it. i could have gone just as far with the 0610.
Finally someone gets it right. Pay attention to Itznfb, he does know what he's talking about. A lot of people don't seem to understand that the stability is mostly temperature bound on these coldbugged Opties @ high clocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
Prime erroring doesn't necessarily make the CPU unstable. Think about it this way, your CPU idles at 35c and loads at 50c. During dual prime95 load at 50c, after 25 minutes you get an error. You take off prime 95 and you're back to 35c, 15 degrees cooler. Idling at 35c you are perfectly stable. Loading internet, MS Office, maybe encode something and put a workload on 1 CPU and you'll be around 42c. Still stable. Run a game, it loads 1 core to the max, say you get to 45c. Still stable.
The only reason prime95 fails is because it gets hotter than everything else. That is why i've run my computer 24/7 for DAYS without a single problem at a speed that has failed Prime95 in less than 10 minutes.
IMO as a general thing about 30 minutes of prime is good. Past 30 minutes of prime you are stable enough so that you can chalk up the remainder to temperature. Maybe it fails at 35 minutes, well say you take the side off your case, drop CPU load 2.5c, and it primes for 3+ hours and doesn't stop...
basically after a certain point it's all temperature bound and it's :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing pointless to prime all day and night. It's a waste of time and energy, i sure as hell didn't build a 2K PC to run prime and i'm sure most others didn't either. So people asking for 8+ whatever hours prime, realize that those are YOUR standards of stability and don't necessarily mean anything to Xtremesystems on a whole, and we aren't required to run Prime for any set amount of time. Any half decent OCer has run their CPU at enough speed/voltage settings to understand exactly what it's capable of and where it's stable.
Next thing you know we'll have to have an input for ambient temp, not quite fair if one person has 15c and another has 25c. And then IHS makes a 10c difference :rolleyes: where does it end?
thank you Absolute_0. as this was basically the point i was trying to make. we are here to max these chips out, not see how long we can run a program that stresses the cpu beyond any other app we are going to use (besides folding). if its stable for normal everyday use, then its stable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute_0
WELL PUT, I SECOND THAT , ABSOLUTE O.
I ve tried a resembling discussion on the DFI forum and was cussed by some
prime fundamentalists :)
I am not that experienced in overclocking, but the above stated implies to me as well.
I had 3GHZ at 1.41V C, failed in Oblivion, bumped it a notch and wham -OCCT SPI Prime 1 hour ok.
At 1.536 Prime large FFTS goes for 3 hours or so -but temps despite the WC are around 50C :(
As said before in the thread (I think it's growing so much as the previous one for newcomers to read it throughfully :D) agree 100% with Absolute_0 and itznfb. Prime failing is due to temps. You will never, ever, get your chip as hot with any other app (or apps) as priming.
If not, think about it this way: What's the better cooling for? Not only for even higher OCs, but also gives stability at higher volt/mhz where air craps priming.
Why does a chip crap at 1.525, 334x9 with a TT BT and the same chip with the same config runs OK with a good WC kit? (assuming it's not coldbugged). Because the chips runs fine with that config while it doesn't get higher than X degrees. Something that only happens when priming.
Someone could argue with this, OK, but then what are you going to do? run prime 24/7 for one week to be sure of what? yeah it's 1week prime stable, but and if it fails at 1week and 1 minute? :D:D:D
I hope this post helps the discussion to calm down and not keep the primewars flooding the thread. Would be sad to see this closed too :(
Alright, everyone shutup about priming, kiss and makeup ASAP
:) ;)
Sure, now the thread is crowded, I wil re-re-re-ask something I'm yet to get answered: (sorry if with the XS downtimes I've lost some answer :p:)
Does anyone know if lighter liquid (from zippo for example) can help my died 0610? I read someone with top-notch cooling did a bath to all his chips. I think I killed her when removing the IHS. No, I didn't cut any SMD, it was prolly some AS5, but I doubt it, I don't really know what happened. The chip booted fine 2 or 3 times, but had higher temps and worse OC, so I remounted twice reapplying AS5. 3rd time I plugged it none of the 4 DFI SLI-DR lights turned off -> dead cpu. I cleaned it with 100% pure acetone and with AS5 2xcleaning liquids (remover and purifier) but didn't help.
Any idea? Big Thanks
does the motherboard still work?Quote:
Originally Posted by mursaat
Yes I plugged my 0551 and everything's OK. Everything but the speed :D
haha. and the chip isn't burned anywhere?Quote:
Originally Posted by mursaat
i wonder if you put too much pressure on the core :stick:
itz whats ur batch on CCB1E 0609 FPMW
I just got one of those from monarch and my batch is 0148 (last 4 digits)
Also, im eagerly awaiting ur OC'ing results, as I dont have a mobo to test this right now.
i should have some results tonight. i don't know what the batch is, i'll check when i get home. i got the chip yesterday i haven't even looked at it yet. i was too busy trying to find the max on my 0615 before i switched over.
Don't think so, can I harm the core without leaving any visible trace over the core? I put a little more pressure than previous times, only to try. But I've read a lot of times TTBT+noIHS use the pressure you can with your fingers. Always geting the IHS base balanced. I glued with epoxy the H metal plate to the IHS so it's easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
i'm not 100% sure, but i think you can damage the core without any visible damage. more than likely you would see where you chipped or cracked it, but i'm sure its possible to not do any visible damage.
God, all you people talk about stability and what it is, but the thing is, you can push all you want with 30 min stability or 24 hour stability.
So today you tell us you're 30 min prime stable, and all you care about is being able to game and it won't crash, but is this a setting you would use 24/7? You can push 3.2 GHz stable for 30 min, but are you going to use this setting when you have to get a video project done or something important? Are you going to risk everything you do on this setting? More often than not, you're going to be one of those people with corrupted data, who needs to reformat, and buy a new CPU, etc etc. Don't tell me you can get away by backing up and everything. This is like saying you abuse your car, but you can afford a new car every month. Who cares? Point is that your "overclocking" really isn't much of an achievement.
Then there are those of you who argue 24 hr stability doesn't matter because 1/10th of a degree of fluctuation and change in weather screws everything up.
This is precisely why I bench now, and I don't leave my windows wide open for air to flow in. I bench with my case closed because this is what I know I'll be runnign like 24/7. I also unplug my side 120mm fans so I'm down to 2x120mm fans (front + back). I also run my fan controller at what I run at 24/7 (not max) so I know I can turn the fans up if necessary. My side fan drops temps a good 2 - 3 deg on the CPU side and definitely more for the PWMIC and 7800GT, but I leave it off. Why? Because a summer heat wave can screw me over one day. Plus, this gives me more leeway.
And why do I do this? I know I can't hit "24 hr stability" like some people do. My goal isn't to have a 3.2 GHz chip that I can show off for one day that will crash the next because I rigged a test setup that can get me this one time certificate that I won't be able to realistically achieve everyday because I don't want some loud@$$ system that sounds like a jet engine that doesnt let me sleep.
Sure prime erroring may let you get away with working in Windows. You might be able to get away with a lot of things.
But would you make your system a web server and advertise 99.9% uptime the next day? I think not. What's the point of having something that's not 100% stable in every way you know it? It's just like strapping a bomb to your chest. Armed or not, I'm sure it's not a very comfortable feeling.
Maybe my goal is different from everyone. I want an OCed system that I'm comfortable using 24/7 and that is JUST AS STABLE if not MORE STABLE than my stock settings.
Dude, we were done discussing it. Please stop...seriously.
Yeah really :lol: it was dead 3 pages ago :lol:
I dont know where you guys are coming up with this information from but its not based on any scientific or engineering standpoint of a processor whatsoever. Temperature is just one factor in overclocking. Just one. Voltage is another factor. The fact that a processor has its limits as to how high it will even overclock is another factor and is the most common reason for Prime95 failing. Even at 2.8GHz these Opteron 165 processors are pushed 1GHz past their initial clock speed. Each processor has a limit as to how far its possible to push its internal clock before it reaches a point to where it can no longer carry out normal operations. Low temps and increased voltage are means by which to increase this potential clock but nevertheless there is a limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute_0
Prime erroring doesn't necessarily make the CPU unstable? If it wasn't unstable it WOULD NOT cause an error. Just because you only load one core and the max temp is only 45C does NOT mean that one core is going to be stable. I can run ONE instance of Prime95 and if that core is not stable it will fail all by itself. You dont have to run dual Prime to get the temps way up there to fail. The core may not be getting enough voltage or it may just not be capable of running those speeds. The purpose in running dual Prime is so you test both cores working together at max load. Temps are just an added factor in the mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute_0
We are also moving forward into an age of SMP aware applications and games. Most encodeing software such as DVD Shrink is multithreaded. Alot of productivity software like 3ds max is multithreaded. This means its going to push your CPU to 100% load just like Prime95. And even when your only running single threaded applications you are still running 100% on that single core. Core 0 is normally the core that fails first with these Opterons, at least it has for all the Opterons i've had to this point. Thats the primary core you will be running all your applications off of. And if you guys think Prime95 pushes your system further then anything else will, try running S&M. Your system will most likely lockup because temps get higher with it then any other application i have seen.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=100302
Nope, thats not true at all. Temperatures are only ONE reason Prime95 will fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute_0
You sound exactly like one of the scenarios presented in the Prime95 stress FAQ lol.
I doubt very many of you even understand how Prime95 works. Prime95 doesn't constantly run the exact same set of numbers so that you have to push it for 9 hours under 100% load before it breaks. It takes hours to completely run through all the different combinations that could possibly result in an error.Quote:
Q) A forum member said "Don't bother with prime95, it always pukes on me,
and my system is stable!. What do you make of that?"
or
"We had a server at work that ran for 2 MONTHS straight, without a reboot
I installed Prime95 on it and ran it - a couple minutes later I get an error.
You are going to tell me that the server wasn't stable?"
A) These users obviously do not subscribe to the 100% rock solid
school of thought. THEIR MACHINES DO HAVE HARDWARE PROBLEMS.
But since they are not presently running any programs that reveal
the hardware problem, the machines are quite stable. As long as
these machines never run a program that uncovers the hardware problem,
then the machines will continue to be stable.
http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=5676Quote:
A torture test runs a certain number of L-L iterations on each of many different exponents (actually, Mersenne numbers with different exponents, of course). The table of test exponents (and the corresponding correct answer for each one) is fairly long - many dozens of different exponents, covering a wide range. I think it may take more than 24 hours to cycle through the complete set of test exponents on at least some systems, so letting the torture test run for long periods is the best way to push as many different bit patterns through as possible, so as to maximize the probability of hitting upon a pattern that is defectively processed.
And once again, just because your system doesn't CRASH or LOCKUP does NOT mean your system is stable. Errors can be happening in the background without you even knowing it. What happens when your memory is causing errors? Do you normally know it from just running Windows and playing games? It depends on how bad it is. You may never notice it until you run Memtest86 or Windows Memtest or Prime95 Blend that your RAM even has a problem. Thats the whole point behind these stability testing programs. If your system was stable you could pass all of them without a problem.
You only have to run Prime while your testing your overclock. Once you establish your max overclock your done. Its not something you sit around and run every day just for the fun of it lol. Some of you are just INCREDIBLY lazy. I run my own business, i'm in college, i have a girlfriend, i play basketball a lot so i spend time weight training and practicing, and i have many other things going on in my life and yet i SOMEHOW manage to find time to click Start on a program and walk away lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute_0
And asking for 8+ hours isn't OUR standards. Those are the standards set forth by the creator of the program and by anyone who actually understand how it works and how long it takes to find stability problems. Its not a 10 minute job.
These 30 minute and 2 hour standards are YOUR standards that you're coming up with based on your own opinion of what stability is. Its not based on any actual facts or methods that can be proven to be true. Its not based on anything that the creator of the program has said himself. What i'm saying is based off of facts presented. Yours is based on theories. Theories are worthless until facts are introduced to support them.Quote:
Originally Posted by pulled from the Prime95 README again
I wouldn't even bother replying in this thread about this subject if it wasn't for all of this FUD being spread around about Prime95 and what constitutes stability. Some of the things said just completely astonish me.
And what has really got me going on this subject here lately is the morons on eBay selling processors advertised at being Prime stable at 3-3.1GHz by the dozens. I've been selling a few of my chips on there and i post honest results that have actually been thoroughly tested. I dont post some suicide screen at 3.1GHz just to lure in the noobs dumb enough to bid higher thinking they're getting some incredible overclocking processor.
Like i told someone earlier, XtremeSystems is suppost to present the pinnacle of overclocking knowledge and expertise. Any beginner with extremely limited computer knowledge can install a processor, hit a button and enter his BIOS, and change a handful of settings that duplicates the settings someone else has used. It takes a veteren overclocker to be able to do that same process of pushing the system to the limits all while taking the steps neccessary (extreme cooling, extreme voltage) to produce a rock solid machine.
We should start another thread on this topic if anyone cares to discuss it further. I would really love to see some actual tests and facts presented on the subject outside of just personal opinions of what is thought to be stable.
can someone please ban him
Why? He does make alot of good points.Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
Theories are worthless until facts are introduced to support them.
That being one of them.
Do you normally know it from just running Windows and playing games? It depends on how bad it is. You may never notice it until you run Memtest86 or Windows Memtest or Prime95 Blend that your RAM even has a problem. Thats the whole point behind these stability testing programs. If your system was stable you could pass all of them without a problem.
This is true aswell, sometimes you bluescreen, sometimes your pc locks up, sometimes your app errors out. 1 hour of prime is nothing, since the test does do alot of tests of diffrent combos, you can error out at any time. That's why sometimes you error out 11 hours later, not because of heat.
1. no he really doesn't.
2. because he refuses to stop the continuous BS and he is going to get the thread closed.
As soon as you care to stop replying about the topic in this thread i will be more then happy to procede with the continuous FACTS against your continuous BS in a more appropriate thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb
You guys miss my previous post?
Quote:
Alright, everyone shutup about priming, kiss and makeup ASAP
BurningGrave i addressed your concerns in dark red
I dont know where you guys are coming up with this information from but its not based on any scientific or engineering standpoint of a processor whatsoever. Temperature is just one factor in overclocking. Just one. Voltage is another factor. The fact that a processor has its limits as to how high it will even overclock is another factor and is the most common reason for Prime95 failing. Even at 2.8GHz these Opteron 165 processors are pushed 1GHz past their initial clock speed. Each processor has a limit as to how far its possible to push its internal clock before it reaches a point to where it can no longer carry out normal operations. Low temps and increased voltage are means by which to increase this potential clock but nevertheless there is a limit.
Buddy i'm talking about prime for 30 minutes versus prime for hours where heat IS the factor. if it fails in a second obviously you need more volts.
Prime erroring doesn't necessarily make the CPU unstable? If it wasn't unstable it WOULD NOT cause an error. Just because you only load one core and the max temp is only 45C does NOT mean that one core is going to be stable. I can run ONE instance of Prime95 and if that core is not stable it will fail all by itself. You dont have to run dual Prime to get the temps way up there to fail. The core may not be getting enough voltage or it may just not be capable of running those speeds. The purpose in running dual Prime is so you test both cores working together at max load. Temps are just an added factor in the mix.
I'm saying the instability stems from heat more so than the clock speed.
Obviously if you only run 1 instance of Prime and it fails, you are way unstable. I'm talking about a stable system that i only run prime for 30 minutes on... you're talkng about a completely unstable system.
We are also moving forward into an age of SMP aware applications and games. Most encodeing software such as DVD Shrink is multithreaded. Alot of productivity software like 3ds max is multithreaded. This means its going to push your CPU to 100% load just like Prime95. And even when your only running single threaded applications you are still running 100% on that single core. Core 0 is normally the core that fails first with these Opterons, at least it has for all the Opterons i've had to this point. Thats the primary core you will be running all your applications off of. And if you guys think Prime95 pushes your system further then anything else will, try running S&M. Your system will most likely lockup because temps get higher with it then any other application i have seen.
Why would i run S&M? I built my computer for Folding and gaming, not for software that applies an artificial load :rolleyes:
I'm guessing most other people are with me.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=100302
Nope, thats not true at all. Temperatures are only ONE reason Prime95 will fail.
You sound exactly like one of the scenarios presented in the Prime95 stress FAQ lol.
Again you assume a perfectly unstable situation. I never said prime was useless. My point is that running it for hours and hours is useless. Read my post.
I doubt very many of you even understand how Prime95 works. Prime95 doesn't constantly run the exact same set of numbers so that you have to push it for 9 hours under 100% load before it breaks. It takes hours to completely run through all the different combinations that could possibly result in an error.
http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=5676
And once again, just because your system doesn't CRASH or LOCKUP does NOT mean your system is stable. Errors can be happening in the background without you even knowing it. What happens when your memory is causing errors? Do you normally know it from just running Windows and playing games? It depends on how bad it is. You may never notice it until you run Memtest86 or Windows Memtest or Prime95 Blend that your RAM even has a problem. Thats the whole point behind these stability testing programs. If your system was stable you could pass all of them without a problem.
If i don't notice the errors, why should i care?
You only have to run Prime while your testing your overclock. Once you establish your max overclock your done. Its not something you sit around and run every day just for the fun of it lol. Some of you are just INCREDIBLY lazy. I run my own business, i'm in college, i have a girlfriend, i play basketball a lot so i spend time weight training and practicing, and i have many other things going on in my life and yet i SOMEHOW manage to find time to click Start on a program and walk away lol.
And asking for 8+ hours isn't OUR standards. Those are the standards set forth by the creator of the program and by anyone who actually understand how it works and how long it takes to find stability problems. Its not a 10 minute job.
You run 8 hours all you want, at Xtremesystems i think asking for 10 hours of prime is rubbish. I'm not giving up Rosetta cycles to convince other people that my overclock is "stable" when i'm perfectly content with it.
You have to accept that people have different standards of stability, and not hold others to your standards.
These 30 minute and 2 hour standards are YOUR standards that you're coming up with based on your own opinion of what stability is. Its not based on any actual facts or methods that can be proven to be true. Its not based on anything that the creator of the program has said himself. What i'm saying is based off of facts presented. Yours is based on theories. Theories are worthless until facts are introduced to support them.
There's no facts about prime stability. You could be 24 hour prime stable and fail something else. It happens all the time, Prime isn't the holy friggin grail.
I wouldn't even bother replying in this thread about this subject if it wasn't for all of this FUD being spread around about Prime95 and what constitutes stability. Some of the things said just completely astonish me.
What astonishes me is that after 3 people agree with me and 2 people say to leave the subject alone, you go and make this post. This thread is so much closer to being locked now : /
http://carcino.gen.nz/images/image.p...?cb=1115204527Quote:
Originally Posted by burningrave101