More P5B secrets uncovered

very nice read, Tony...but aren't you talking about releasing intellectual property that a chipset vendor might want to keep very closely to the vest, for what ever reason?!

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Originally Posted by Tony

Jeez I should neaten that graph up a little ...LOL

I thought I would link you to some of my ramblings, have a look at my blog post here we really are up against it here untill we get bios files that allow us to tweak and the the boards do what we want and not what the bios engineer wants.

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tony, thanks for trying!

If you succeed you would really help out the community here at XS. As you always do.

He's used to it from way back... :clap:

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Originally Posted by K404

If you`re clocking past 400 using Clockgen, with a 4:5 divider, thats more work for the chipset. Try upping the volts, if should work. 4:5 is fine up to 440-445 for me.

:)

@Tony... look forward to reading about the outcomes from the meeting :toast:

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I gave up with the 4:5 divider, couldn't get it memstable even at 5-5-5-15-5-35 timings :(

1.55V NB and 16V SB, 1.4 and 1.45V FSB Term tried.


Im sitting at 433x7, 3030mhz, 1.25V CPU, 2.15V mem @ 4-4-4-12-4 timings. 1.4V FSB Term, 1.55V NB and 1.6V SB, will try lowering them after 48 hours of folding at home.



As for the meeting, Tony, give em hell :toast:

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Originally Posted by Ace-a-Rue

very nice read, Tony...but aren't you talking about releasing intellectual property that a chipset vendor might want to keep very closely to the vest, for what ever reason?!

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There are settings that would not harm the vendors IP IMO, things like drive strength etc which would help with overclocking. If you have a look in the latest bios files for the DFI975 there are a few more options available than most so there is scope for improvement.

I am not asking for every last tweak, only the ones that matter...and for every performance board to have them, that way we would have a level playing field with the AMD boys and be able to push DDR2 to new highs.

As I said in the blog, I doubt we will get what we need.

T

well...i wish you the best in your endeavor...go get-em "Tony the Tiger!":)

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Originally Posted by Tony

Multiplier has no effect, I had this confirmed and will be updating the guide. We look to have found another tweak though that allows upto 399 without the ram crapping out...more soon.

1333 is coming to a lot of boards now, latency tweaks also.

T

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OK, I'm a little confused now :confused: Actually I had some results that confirm the multiplier dependence. Or is this with a new bios ?

My post over at BE yesterday :

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Originally Posted by thorgal

Hi Tony, all,

I've been doing some memory testing the last couple of days, and I've run into the same problems that are described here. At least : I think I am ;)

Screenshot

Notice the difference in reporting of the FSB between coretemp and cpuz, and the difference in speed reporting from coretemp, orthos and cpuz. CPUz reports the correct bus, multiplier and speed settings, but maybe coretemp reports the correct chipset setting.

Also : it's impossible to run this setup at 444x6, whereas 458x10 was my max OC for this processor (and has run quite reliable in the past). I was trying to find maximum bandwith for the ram, and above 420Mhz on multi 8 it was no go. Multi 6 indeed made things only worse.

I will try and test again with a XE processor to see if things further add up.

Grtz,

Thorgal

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I spoke to powers that would know and they assured me cpu multi should have no effect, if we see an effect it is something coded into bios causing it by the motherboard manufacturer. You should see a multi change, force the FSB you want and if the CPU will do it you get a boot, simple as that.

Well I visited Asus, I spoke to the product manager over the P5B and he said he would see what they could do... we have to remember Asus already have a plan in place so it all depends what they can tweak etc.

I asked for as many dram timing options as they could release, manual control of the 1333 strap and some options for MCH latency.

I said pretty please so you never know ;)

T

Tony in tiawan!!

Go man Go, we love you. :)

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Originally Posted by thorgal

OK, I'm a little confused now :confused: Actually I had some results that confirm the multiplier dependence. Or is this with a new bios ?

My post over at BE yesterday :

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What happens on your screenshot is, that it appears (I think) you have booted to Windows @ 380x9 and then lowered to 373MHz FSB using ClockGen. Due to ability to change a multiplier on C2D, a lot of monitoring software gets confused and report CPU speed as if you have booted at default multiplier - hence 3800MHz. ITAT doesn't get fooled, but e.g. ORTHOS does, so is Windows System Properties, when you look at it and few other tools, including CoreTemp ;) Also, all 3DMarks report CPU speed in the same way, in other words, they all recognize it incorrectly when multiplier is different from default...

BTW, you should update your CPU-Z to 1.37... Just to have the latest version ;)

For the record I have spoken to Abit, Asus, Gigabyte and foxconn all regarding 965 overclocking...begging for DRAM and MCH latency options as well as manual control of 1333. I spoke to DFI about the Infinity 975 and they promised a new bios soon with some added tweaks. I did not get to talk to the P5W guy over at Asus but im sure the P5B guy will talk to him :p:

I meet Abit again today for dinner and will talk 965 and 975 again, They have made good progress but the 965 is still a little ways behind the P5B and DQ6.

We all need to remember they are more used to listening to reviewers than DRam engineers, especially ones who are mad on ram overclocking ;) so this will be a learning process for them also. At the moment most motherboard reviews are a little mundane so they are looking for a way to freshen up their product...i think a surge of new improved bios files is a good way of doing this.

Seeing is beleiving though, we will know in a week or so I would hope.

Thanks Tony,
*crosses fingers* I really hope you're successful in getting the manufacturers to implement some new options in the BIOS's :bows:

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Originally Posted by Pt1t

Last bios is Bios 0804 P5B dlx wifi/ap

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cool, thanks for the BIOS Pt1t, the latest i had was the 0801

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Originally Posted by bachus_anonym

What happens on your screenshot is, that it appears (I think) you have booted to Windows @ 380x9 and then lowered to 373MHz FSB using ClockGen. Due to ability to change a multiplier on C2D, a lot of monitoring software gets confused and report CPU speed as if you have booted at default multiplier - hence 3800MHz. ITAT doesn't get fooled, but e.g. ORTHOS does, so is Windows System Properties, when you look at it and few other tools, including CoreTemp ;) Also, all 3DMarks report CPU speed in the same way, in other words, they all recognize it incorrectly when multiplier is different from default...

BTW, you should update your CPU-Z to 1.37... Just to have the latest version ;)

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Thanks for your answer Bachus :)

Actually I did boot into windows at 380Mhz as you said, but the Dominator was not orthos stable at that point. The monitoring soft (orthos and coretemp) did not recognize the changes set with clockgen after the boot-up, and remained at 3.8Ghz. Oh yes, and you'll see in the screenshot that I do have cpu-z1.37 installed, but it doesn't work in conjunction with clockgen in my case.

Still remaining is the issue why clockgen is reporting a speed of 422x9, shouldn't it be 370x10 then (default multi). That's why I was thinking about the multiplier/chipset issue this tread started with. And finally : if it's not the multiplier, it has to be a bios thing as Tony pointed out, because my rig sure as hell doesn't run 440x9, whereas 440x10 is not a problem.

Thanks again :)

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Originally Posted by Tony

There are settings that would not harm the vendors IP IMO, things like drive strength etc which would help with overclocking. If you have a look in the latest bios files for the DFI975 there are a few more options available than most so there is scope for improvement.

I am not asking for every last tweak, only the ones that matter...and for every performance board to have them, that way we would have a level playing field with the AMD boys and be able to push DDR2 to new highs.

As I said in the blog, I doubt we will get what we need.

T

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""Tony AKA BigToe""

you worked hard for this monicker,

i'm sure it is frustrating as s%^&, but facilitating and communicating is not easy,

"Like the Bridge Over the River Kwai"

keep the faith!

that is GREAT!...we really appreciate that you are keeping us abreast of the latest developments.

you know it is funny how we, the user, usually think of the motherboard manufacturers as robots; just doing their job in an automated fashion...it is VERY refreshing to hear that they are listening and they will at least give it a try to update the product lines through additional bios tweaks.

i have a traditional Navy term for you that signifies a job well done: "ATTA-BOY!"

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Originally Posted by Tony

For the record I have spoken to Abit, Asus, Gigabyte and foxconn all regarding 965 overclocking...begging for DRAM and MCH latency options as well as manual control of 1333. I spoke to DFI about the Infinity 975 and they promised a new bios soon with some added tweaks. I did not get to talk to the P5W guy over at Asus but im sure the P5B guy will talk to him :p:

I meet Abit again today for dinner and will talk 965 and 975 again, They have made good progress but the 965 is still a little ways behind the P5B and DQ6.

We all need to remember they are more used to listening to reviewers than DRam engineers, especially ones who are mad on ram overclocking ;) so this will be a learning process for them also. At the moment most motherboard reviews are a little mundane so they are looking for a way to freshen up their product...i think a surge of new improved bios files is a good way of doing this.

Seeing is beleiving though, we will know in a week or so I would hope.

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Tony, are you saying, those mobo makers are racing to exploit the "undocumented" feature of 965 NB ? I would say it sounds like a "secret recipe" to me ? :D

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Originally Posted by Tony

I said pretty please so you never know ;)

T

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I'm sure u did... :D

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Originally Posted by sierra_bound

The best performance on this board is 400FSB of less with 4:5 or 2:3 memory ratio. I think FSB is generally overrated. It's really memory speed that gives the biggest boost.

Unmodded 975X boards generally don't run 2:3 very well, so they can't really take advantage of RAM that can do DDR2-1150 or higher.

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running 4:5 ddr2-8000 5-5-5-15 e6600 400x9 1.4v p5b dlx

may need to up vcore a titch, or, drop fsb = prefer 24/7 use

4:5 much better than 1:1 with higher fsb

wonder if lower fsb and 2:3 divider might be better?

Well I begged for better bios options on most boards, i will follow up with the engineers and we will see what they can add in for us to test and tweak.

Most have fully featured bios files on the new 680 boards that are just about to ship,which most are pushing as their main enthusiast product...so we will see.

YES!...many thanks, Tony!

Thanks for your efforts Tony & everyone trying to figure out wth is going on with the p5b, I used the techrep guide & the info here while setting up mine - its folding at 440 fsb today just as an initial test run; and thanks also Tony for a very old thread on abx iirc about p4m OC'ing which helped me set up my 1.6 @ 2.55 not so long ago.

I used the asus update software yesterday for the first time, I've always thought of it as a bit risky - worked very nicely :)

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Originally Posted by Tony

Well I begged for better bios options on most boards, i will follow up with the engineers and we will see what they can add in for us to test and tweak.

Most have fully featured bios files on the new 680 boards that are just about to ship,which most are pushing as their main enthusiast product...so we will see.

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"..new 680 boards..." :confused:

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Originally Posted by jVIDIA

"..new 680 boards..." :confused:

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My P5B is outdated already :(

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Originally Posted by Vito

My P5B is outdated already :(

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sort of!:D