That´s a great boost, tictac, is it a new mobo? :)
What Vdd and BIOS have u used?
And what kind of memory bandwidth do u get with those timmings?
Cheers
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That´s a great boost, tictac, is it a new mobo? :)
What Vdd and BIOS have u used?
And what kind of memory bandwidth do u get with those timmings?
Cheers
to be honest with u tictac, this is not really unusual...Quote:
Originally posted by tictac
my friends can run
252MHz
2 x 256MB single side Hynix D43 Rams
2.5-4-4-11
Prime 95 ......3 hours stable...
no vdimm mod or vtt mod
seem it is something related to the bios limitation
i think the bios is not build for 2-2-2- timing as DFI Infinity bios
;)
and i'm also thinking that NF7-S not hitting over 250FSB 11-2-2 cas2 is due to BIOS not being tweaked for BH-5...
on my native (Polish) forum there's actually many people that are withing 240-250FSB range stable in Dual. there's even a guy that has 255FSB 11-4-4 cas2.5 2x512MB!!! on NF7-S with Hynix D43 sticks... most people there don't have that much money to get BH-5 so they are "stuck" with those...
maybe there's something more u can do as far as BIOS tweaking?
P.S. I wish i knew about that "mobo action" for u... i would definetely participate in it as i really, really appreciate your work, especially multis fix...
Yes, I think we are missing alot of bios tweaks that the DFI bios has in it. Oskar over there is doing his best to find the right combo of settings.....but he works for DFI, so I doubt they'll let him tell the world. Abit is putting in ZERO effort in this, the design is done and the product is "dead" to them, as they see the world moving to A64.
Too bad, AMD really fk'd up the memory controller design.... the act of building it into the CPU was utter stupidity. They messed up the whole AGP/PCI lock issue, severely complicating goosing the A64's. Maybe 939 will address these things, as they curve-the-learn.
Im sure there is "gold" left in the NF2 northbridge, but we need to find it. Ill email NVidia and try to figure out how to get the technical reference manual. How can it do them HARM be letting that information out? The device is a synchronous state-machine, it's all a matter of programming it to take the correct steps on an access cycle vs the ram you are using. 2x512M just needs a pause in the right place probably, and DFI has stuck the pause in to make 2x 512 happy at higher FSB. We'll find it somehow.
In the meantime, Bestbuy Sunday has a Kingston 512M valueram $54 (after rebate) that suposedly has Hynix xxxBT-D43 chips on it. Thats good for 250Mhz 11,4,4,2.5. Not BH5, but high FSB for real cheap.
BUFF.... that is my friends board not mine
Bachus_Anonym... no problem man... when i get my board... bios modding will get some serious modding job... I have xtra bios chip here... may test 5-10 bios per day.... :thumbsup:
My board still on shipment... hope will arrive soon
UWackMe... ya i think i will just buy those cheapo hynix-d43 rams when i get my board....
:D
250MHz 2.5-4-4-11.... bandwith not good enough... but hey its 250...:D
bachus,
sorry bout not letting you know we were getting a board for tictac... we sent out a lot of PMs and lost track of who had been informed and who hadn't.
tictac,
those new Memory Timings (?) tables you found... how big are they?
And is it possible to open then in a text file?
It shouldn't be difficult to write a program in Delphi/C++ or whatever else that compares the files and locates any similaries and differences between them.... might help decypher something :D
Also, do the DFI boards have a similar table... or is their BIOS structure completely different?
________
buy silversurfer vaporizer
Out of curiosity, why is building the memory controller onto the CPU bad?
Another possibility - Can the infinity bios be flashed to the nf7? 8rda+ and a7n8x's can be used for reflashing DFI's, so maby just flashing an "abit" to a "dfi" could be a simpler route?
Makes me wonder if flashing my NF7 bios with an Infinity would open those other ram timing options?Quote:
Originally posted by STEvil
Out of curiosity, why is building the memory controller onto the CPU bad?
Another possibility - Can the infinity bios be flashed to the nf7? 8rda+ and a7n8x's can be used for reflashing DFI's, so maby just flashing an "abit" to a "dfi" could be a simpler route?
I have 2 other NF7s here that I am modding for people. I may as well try it to see what happens. Can always do a hotflash if needed.
What ya think STE...?
its a small table compare to romsipQuote:
Originally posted by Rabbi_NZ
bachus,
sorry bout not letting you know we were getting a board for tictac... we sent out a lot of PMs and lost track of who had been informed and who hadn't.
tictac,
those new Memory Timings (?) tables you found... how big are they?
And is it possible to open then in a text file?
It shouldn't be difficult to write a program in Delphi/C++ or whatever else that compares the files and locates any similaries and differences between them.... might help decypher something :D
Also, do the DFI boards have a similar table... or is their BIOS structure completely different?
the d10 value = 10-11
the d23 value = 11-12
the dfi infinity = 17-18 /18-19
I'm no expert bout BIOS modding but I think flashing with an entirely different BIOS (from another board) is not a long term solution to anything....
But... if tictac or someone else could locate the NB timing tables in as many BIOS's as possible (E.g. NF7, Infinity,LanParty, etc) then we may be able to experiment with different timing tables....
There must be a portion of the BIOS code that is dedicated to the nForce 400 Ultra.... the more we learn about that the more we can narrow down where the timing options are...
But flashing an entirely different BIOS cannot be good... the boards have different integrated peripherals that are driven by the BIOS settings.... in my opinion that's asking for trouble
Can't wait till you get your board tictac... hopefully we'll see some more breakthroughs when you have your very own baby to experiment on! :D
________
volcano vaporizer classic
are those values addresses or is that ALL there is to it?Quote:
Originally posted by tictac
its a small table compare to romsip
the d10 value = 10-11
the d23 value = 11-12
the dfi infinity = 17-18 /18-19
seems a little simple????:confused:
________
buy iolite vaporizer
I agree totally with your reasoning, and wouldnt have offered to do it if I did not have a way to fix the issue if something happened.Quote:
Originally posted by Rabbi_NZ
I'm no expert bout BIOS modding but I think flashing with an entirely different BIOS is not a long term solution to anything....
But... if tictac or someone else could locate the NB timing tables in as many BIOS's as possible (E.g. NF7, Infinity,LanParty, etc) then we may be able to experiment with different timing tables....
There must be a portion of the BIOS code that is dedicated to the nForce 400 Ultra.... the more we learn about that the more we can narrow down where the timing options are...
But flashing an entirely different BIOS cannot be good... the boards have different integrated peripherals that are driven by the BIOS settings.... in my opinion that's asking for trouble
Can't wait till you get your board tictac... hopefully we'll see some more breakthroughs when you have your very own baby to experiment on! :D
Sometimes people have to be guinea pigs and test out ideas to see what happens.
I was thinking, as was STE I am betting, that if the bios flash indeed worked, then we atleast know that the tables can be brought over from one bios and put into another. Or however it is that you bios modders do your magic. I dont know if its as simple as grabbing something from one bios and adding it to a new one. My thinking was that if a bios flash opened up the other ram timings, then maybe that knowledge would help tictac and the others out.
I was just willing to be the guinea pig if it helped someone have a breakthrough.
Experimentation is the root of all achievement. Sometimes a bold move breaks a plane to a higher ground, rather than siutting and studying for hours on end.
Not that both methods arent good, on the contrary, doing it hte proper way is always best, but sometimes you just gotta suck it up and give different ideas a try.
here you goQuote:
Originally posted by Rabbi_NZ
I'm no expert bout BIOS modding but I think flashing with an entirely different BIOS (from another board) is not a long term solution to anything....
But... if tictac or someone else could locate the NB timing tables in as many BIOS's as possible (E.g. NF7, Infinity,LanParty, etc) then we may be able to experiment with different timing tables....
There must be a portion of the BIOS code that is dedicated to the nForce 400 Ultra.... the more we learn about that the more we can narrow down where the timing options are...
But flashing an entirely different BIOS cannot be good... the boards have different integrated peripherals that are driven by the BIOS settings.... in my opinion that's asking for trouble
Can't wait till you get your board tictac... hopefully we'll see some more breakthroughs when you have your very own baby to experiment on! :D
You got skills in the bios dept there tictac.
I have no idea what I am looking at there.
Are those ^^ timings tables?
________
Harley-Davidson FLSTC
DFI Infinity 12-18 bios mem table compare with 2-17 beta 2
:toast:
well cant really confirm it is memory tableQuote:
Originally posted by Rabbi_NZ
Are those ^^ timings tables?
until we experiment it... :toast:
ops sorry.... the d23 on the left & the d10 on the right
typo error....
hope u can decrypt it well...
lol, that's quite a challenge! :)Quote:
Originally posted by tictac
ops sorry.... the d23 on the left & the d10 on the right
typo error....
hope u can decrypt it well...
a lot of numbers are in the same place for Abit and DFI tables tho... that's got to be a good thing... I'm just wondering whether or not these are timings (I HOPE THEY ARE :D)
If they are not timings tho... the numbers that differ between different tables may have adverse effects on other BIOS functions... for example if they are related to register variables used throughout the BIOS code it may stir up some sheeet later on :cussing:
i guess the only way to learn is to experiment and take one for the team now and then like Hell-Fire said.
tictac,
do you want an apprentise? lol :p:
once i get my pc back together i wouldn't mind trying to learn a few things from the masters!
________
ZG1200A
Hopefully a hotflash is all thats needed ;)
I think an 8rda+ would make a good test subject for the DFI flash seeing as the bios chips are for sure compatable.
Well, its a bad idea.... memory controller in the CPU.... because it limits all further design to what can be done with the memory controller AMD supplied. Any changes in memory, and innovative design ideas of AMD's customers....well, fk'em.
It was dumb, but I see why they did it.... so few good engineering outfits left on planet earth, the only way to assure a working controller for thier product, was to build it in :slobber:
In the meantime, the correct method would be to make the A64 a 64bit differential databus....a 64bit instead of 8bit "hyperlink transport". Then the memory controller would do what I used for a Macintosh accelerator over a decade ago.... 4 DIMMs in a 256bit wide memory array. The CPU will ALWAYS access memory as a (8) 64bit word BURST. Knowing this, the memory controller would access 4 DIMMs in parallel....DDR, so 2 accesses per DIMM... and pull in all (8) 64bit items....4 in parallel, twice in a row. In the meantime, feeding the data to the CPU at....800-1000Mhz FULL BLAST over the 64bit differential bus. Right now we see the Athalon's limitations in the 250-300Mhz range MAX. While as a hyperlink-transport bus, a REAL 800Mhz bus is possible....er NOT Intel marketing BS 800Mhz, but REAL 800Mhz.
This isnt rocket science, this is what ATI and NVidia are doing right NOW on thier video boards.
The principle bottleneck is the memory bus, here we are struggling to get our 500Mhz achieved... when AMD can blow this all out of the watter anytime they feel motivated. Problem is, they aren't motivated. And only AMD/Intel can do this, 3rd parties dont control the CPU design.
Just my opinion.
BTW: my Mac accelerator... had a memory bus just shy of 8X the motherboards built in memory controller. 32bits wide, and alot of waitstates in a very conservative setup dont compete well with 128bits wide and low waitstates.
PS: with a 256bit memory controller....4 sticks of PC133 Sdram could beat the NF2 with BH5 at max.
whats to say the memory controller doesnt have some of those capabilities built in already?
Ummmm... cause it doesn't. At least it does use a 128bit wide data bus, and does sort of "dual channel".... unlike the NF2 which doesnt really make the most of the concept at all. NF2 really uses the 2 banks to try and hide memory accesses by subsystems between CPU accesses...audio/lan/ide/pci, etc. Which is cool, but doesnt pull off dual channel as well as the hype might lead you to believe.
Excercise for student.... using SiS memory test, turn off buffering, and SSE/SSE2, etc, settings so we are down to pure raw MBytes/second transfer rate. Then compare a P4 on Canterwood, or A64, with NF7-S. You'll find they both outpace the NF2 board because both implement "dual channel" much closer to FOR REAL. if NF2 was more truly dual-channel it would be a much closer speed comparison.... 250Mhz 128bit bus will run close to the same MB/s regardless of AMD/Intel, unless not implemented well.
Inside the A64 it is a 64bit path from memory controller to CPU guts... per AMD block diagrams. P4/Canterwood same diff, all 3 are very similar in arrangement, but diverge in how well they make use of the layout.
It looks like Canterwood applied to Athalon's would truly KICK ASS, combining an excellent memory controller with the Athalon's more sensible core design.....nothing like branching in Word to upset a 25stage pipeline. It is the internal design of the Athalon that lets it keep pace with P4's in everyday uses... business/gaming. BTW, there is no reason one could NOT slap an Athalon/Canterwood board together... from an engineering design, but of course Intel prohibits this in their contracts. And also prohibits P4's from being slapped onto NF2's.... there is no technical reason prohibiting any of it, the bus interface of either chip is nearly identical.
When comparing apples-to-apples you need to stick to this sort of test across the platforms. You'll see a real difference and it's all pure MB/s data movement.
So hat's off to AMD for that, but they can do SO MUCH BETTER and blow Intel completely out of the water.... so for the life of me, I dont undersand holding back deliberately. Weird.
BTW, with the memory controller on-chip, they dont need to use a differential databus. But to talk outside the chip more than 250-300Mhz it will be required.... hence the 8bit diff bus between northbridge and southbridge in NF2, SIS648, Canterwood, etc running a good 800-1000Mhz.
The engineering world has gotten a bit FK'd up. Years ago Motorola and Intel would be falling over one another to get you to use thier product.... now you need to be granted permission to even THINK about using one of thier products... welcome to the world run by semi-monopoly's.
Hi to all,
I've done the 2nd method of the Vtt mod from Tictac's webpage and it worked for me as well! Thanks Tictac.
Now i can bench into windows, but the stability issue is still on for me... don't know why tho, i'll have a look at those BIOS's and some extra cooling on the Vtt chip, the rest is watercooled :D (except mosfets).
Btw, how i can give some more volts for the mems?
Saw on Tictac webpage the Vdd booster mod ?!?!, by adding only one cable, and by using another cable you connect the 3.3v rail directly to the Vdimm's (is that safe m8???)
Cheers,
Byron
My Mobo won't go prime98 at 240 anymore.... :eek: Why...?
I don't know,... is it because the 4th mod of VDD,... ? I don't know yet,...
But I see the performance is drop time by time,... drop again and again,... Maybe U're right Dani, the best way to mod VBT/VTT is the "cut trace" method... :o
Hmmm I'don't know is it because VTT mod, VDIMM mod or VDD Boster mod,... but every time I use this 3 in one mod my Board Goes down time by time,... the 1st day work so fine, it's can prime at 243, but I've got a big problem on stability at 4th day
Whua..... my RMA rate just increasing time by time,... it's about 8 Dead Board here... :( in about 19 day....:rolleyes:
Is there anyone got the same problem with me ?
Please ... I need some advice for it (PM_me maybe....):slobber:
Can the people that did the cut-trace method tell me if their Dual N mosfet is getting hot?
Has there been any board deaths because of the cut-trace method yet?
________
Kawasaki VN1500G