Any "must have" items for my H20-220 Edge kit?

Interested on some of the heavily experienced folks thoughts on this, thanks!

This reinforces my suspicions, no need to drink the "coolant koolaid" hype! :)
Decently distilled or deionised h2o (or both)* + a biocide like Silver kill-coil or PT_Nuke** is sufficient!

In the H20-220 Edge, the metal parts of the loop are made of the following:
Radiator = brass tubes, copper fins, modified plenums: unknown?
CPU WB = copper base (is that it?)
Therefore like metals, but is that all the metal in the loop that'll make contact with water?

Even if they're the same or similar metals e.g. Brass/Copper/Nickel...
I wonder if there's more that can be done to inhibit the corrosion process?
I've seen some mention Hydrx, but it apparently has it's own drawbacks.
Is ensuring you have 'decently' distilled, DI, or both, the only thing you can do?

"must-have" items I've ordered, or am close to ruling-in/out:

Distilled/DI h2o: source YTBD; prolly a specialist local retailer, by all accounts distilled is more likely to be lower µS
T.I.M: .............. 1x Indigo Extreme 1156 kit; Ordered
Rad. Fans: ....... 2x Scythe GT AP-15; out-of-stock worldwide till Nov, relying on what came with my kit till ready
Biocide: .......... 1x 0.999 I&H silver kill-coil; Ordered, 1x PT_Nuke PHN; Ordered
Shrouds .......... Not going to bother at this stage...
Case fans: ....... Will see what comes with case, if insufficient I'll research, slipstream is among the best.
Anything else?

*I have found a few potential sources in my region.
**Not imperative if using kill-coil, good supplement in 1st fills if kill-coil hasn't settled, the less used, the better.

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Miscellaneous
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Good shops for Biocide additive/s (must ship to Oz)
http://www.petrastechshop.com/coad.html
http://www.jab-tech.com/Dyes-and-Additives-c-55.html

Interesting side-reading:
-Nickel best for ant-corrosion? (not as good for heat-transfer?)
-Sacrificial anodes

stuff I may swap-in instead of the default parts (longer-term)
-tubing to mitigate microbial propagation
http://www.tygon.com/tygon-antimicrobial-tubing.aspx
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/76...l_-_Black.html

Just use distilled + a silver coil.

I wouldn't waste money on 'specialty' anti-microbial or silver tubing, and would only pick up different or colored tubing if that's a must for you (personally) style-wise.

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Originally Posted by jalyst

Where's some of the "big guns" on the forum, guys can I please gets some advice/tips?!

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These days, unless you're buying really old parts - or it's specifically mentioned, there won't be any aluminum. Because of that, there's no need to worry about corrosion.

As for antimicrobial tubing, in my opinion it's still overpriced compared to other solutions. Just use a silver coil, or PT nuke (or similar) - your preference.

Fans I'd look more at static pressure, and RPM - not CFM. CFM figures are mostly useless and overinflated anyway. Some specific fans you may want to consider are Scythe GentleTyphoons, and/or Scythe S-Flex.

For shrouds (if you decide to use them), just gut the cheapest fans you can find. There's no reason to pay ridiculous amounts of money unless you've got it to spend, or you're going for style.

jalyst: While one cannot deny that corrosion with aluminium-free loop doesn't happen at all, it's minimal enough to ignore. It's only when you add aluminium components aswell it becomes issue big enough to do something about it.

You can skip searching for claimed "non-conductive" coolants. Most will get conductive after a while being used in LC loop, even if initially they don't conduct. Because of solluting some metallic ions from components or some other reason, but that's the result, unless coolant is some mineral oil (but which has worse coolant thermal efficiency then water). And as i've wrote above, in loop without aluminium corrosion is not really an issue, so you don't have to care about conductivity or not of coolant. Distilled water + something to prevent algae growth (eg. silver killcoil and/or pair of drops of biocide) will give best results in thermal efficiency and most maintenance free loop. Different antifreeze alike premixed coolants usually will be less effective because of ethilen or propilen glycol additives (which you don't need to lessen corrosion or for unfreezable property outside in winter), and colored dyes used in them can stain components/clog up micropins/microchannels of waterblock insides requiring regular dissassembling/cleaning of loop/components. So imho choice of distilled as coolant + colored tubing is better then using colored premixes.

Also imho in general distilled is more pure then deionised, though of course something that sold as deionised might be distilled aswell, one has to check description of what he buys.

As for sources to buy .. of course it depends on where you live :). You can check nearby fuel stations (where i found such 50m from where i live :) ) / drugstores / some bigmarkets for distilled. Imho should be WAY cheaper then ordering some premix coolant in online shops, especially if you add shipping price.

No need for any "big guns," jaylst - you've received the info you need from the guys who've posted here, and the info in Gabe's thread. This kit is made up of pretty standard Swiftech products, which many of us use in our builds. No need to overthink the coolant issues for the Edge kit - check out other posts here on deionized vs distilled water and you'll find lots of advice that shows you can use either - preferably with a biocide.

There is no need to search for water with super low conductivity specs - once it comes in contact with your loop, it will not be better than the "regular" stuff.

Older (deleted) post, pasted in this post for posterity:

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Originally Posted by jalyst

Thanks Churchy, I realise this but the other single biggest factor is the conductivity of the water.
Do you know of any reliable sources of 2µS* or less distilled, or 0.5-5µS de-ionised water?
*microsiemens

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That's a good point, even if I do source some very low µS DI water (say .5µS) for a reasonable price...
It won't take long before conductivity* reaches a point where it's the same µS as more easily obtainable & cheaper distilled or DI water!

So I may as well start with higher µS water from the outset, and just make sure I do a clean-up & water-change every 6mth!?
I hope I can get away with only once /yr though, too much of a PIA otherwise....

I've ordered 2x GT AP-15's for my Rad....
I'm also getting a top-notch HTPC (desktop) case, so hopefully it'll come with some decent case fans.

If there's not enough or they're ****, then I'll probably need to order some more.
Are these fans also among the best case fans, or are their better options for one's case?

So, "must-have" items I've ordered, or am close to ruling-in/out....

*and subsequently the potential for corrosion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jalyst

That's a good point, even if I do source some very low µS DI water (say .5µS) for a reasonable price...
It won't take long before conductivity* reaches a point where it's the same µS as more easily obtainable & cheaper distilled or DI water.

So I may as well start with higher µS water from the outset, and just make sure I do a clean-up & water-change every 6mth!?
I hope I can get away with only once /yr though, too much of a PIA otherwise....

I've ordered 2x GT AP-15's for my Rad....
I'm also getting a top-notch HTPC (desktop) case, so hopefully it'll come with some decent case fans.

If there's not enough or they're ****, then I'll probably need to order some more.
Are these fans also among the best case fans, or are their better options for one's case?

So, "must-have" items I've ordered, or am close to ruling-in/out....

*and subsequently the potential for corrosion

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When a water has a high conductivity all that's really telling you is that it is of high purity. Any dissolved ions in the water will make it more conductive than pure H2O. Note that even pure H2O is mildly ionic as H2O dissociates into H+ and OH- albeit at a very low equilibrium concentration but this means it's actually not possible to have water that's completely non conductive.

I'm not sure how careful you need to be with regards to contaminants in your loop (ie things that would raise the water's initial conductivity). If you're already using a biocide/silver you shouldn't need to worry about organic growth and it's not like a tiny amount of mineral content is going to severely affect your temperatures. I haven't been watercooling long enough to know better, but I imagine there's no need to be concerned about purity.

Just go to your local supermarket/drugstore and pick up a huge cheap bottle of distilled deionized water and you'll be fine. There's no need to spend extra money on the water.

As for case fans... it would help if we knew which HTPC case you're talking about and whether you plan on using lots of dust filters. In general, as you add more restriction to the air flow path (dust filters, ducting, etc) the static pressure of the fan becomes more important. If you have air flow path with very little restriction then you may be able to get slightly more performance from a fan that sacrifices pressure for cfm. Worse yet, essentially all fan manufacturers "lie" about the fan specs.

In reality, fans have a pressure-flow curve, just like pumps. MartinM did some marvelous fan testing on PQ curves but decided it was was easier to recommend fans to watercoolers based on their performance on radiators. Even so, you can see from the first test that some fans are better suited for high restriction environments and other fans excel in low restriction environments.

Rather than getting overly worried about fan choice I would recommend you invest in a good fan controller and then you can try to tune the stock case fans to a level where the noise is acceptable and see if they're performing well enough for you.

I use distilled water and thats it right now. I have some how misplaced my coil so it has been just distilled for months now and nothing minus dust everywhere on it since i have been to busy ot clean it.

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Originally Posted by jalyst

@Kaldskryke
Sorry, too late for in-depth response as it's 430am, just one point you made:


I'm of the understanding that distilled & DI are two different processes, & you can only have one or the other.
Are you suggesting you can get distilled "&" DI water?

Thanks for your thoughts, will respond in-depth later/night.

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It's only 2:00pm here :)

From wikipedia:

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Distillation involves boiling the water and then condensing the steam into a clean container, leaving most solid contaminants behind. ... Distillation does not guarantee the absence of bacteria in drinking water.

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Deionization is a physical process which uses specially-manufactured ion exchange resins which bind to and filter out the mineral salts from water. Because the majority of water impurities are dissolved salts, deionization produces a high purity water that is generally similar to distilled water, and this process is quick and without scale buildup. However, deionization does not significantly remove uncharged organic molecules, viruses or bacteria, except by incidental trapping in the resin.

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Yes, they are different processes. Neither of them are great at removing bacteria, but you've got a killcoil or biocide for that. Both remove ions, but distillation is more likely to remove non-ionic solids. Deionization is cheap, and there's no real reason why they can't use it in conjunction with distillation, but I'm not sure there's much benefit to doing both. The cheap water I bought at my local store says it's distilled and deionized :shrug:

Either should be just fine for watercooling.

To clarify - water can be both deionized and distilled. It's often common practice in laboratories to run water through the de-ionizer before distillation - again, not something you really need to worry about for water cooling your computer.

The silver does act as a biocide. You DON'T need silver and something like PT-Nuke in your water. The less stuff you put in there the better. The silver will start acting fast enough. Many of us run loops for weeks/months with no biocide. I wouldn't recommend it for the long term, but don't worry yourself about "instant-algae" growth.

Yeah I have no intention to use PT_Nuke in-combo constantly with silver.
I just saw this post:

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

This is because the growth had a chance to start before the silver was in a strong enough concentration in the water. If the user drops the silver into a jug of water a few weeks prior to the build being filled, the odds of this happening are drastically reduced. Another option is to use PT Nuke or an aquarium algaecide on first fill only and let the silver take over after that.

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And figured it'd still be handy to have some PT_Nuke lying around :)

Yeah ... I'd guess that was an extreme case that waterlogged was talking about ...

@Kaldskryke
In another thread I asked this question, but you seemed to have missed it:
Okay so we're talking only copper & brass that could potentially mingle via water, what about this modified plenum you speak of?

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As for case fans... it would help if we knew which HTPC case you're talking about and whether you plan on using lots of dust filters. In general, as you add more restriction to the air flow path (dust filters, ducting, etc) the static pressure of the fan becomes more important. If you have air flow path with very little restriction then you may be able to get slightly more performance from a fan that sacrifices pressure for cfm.

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This is some very good points!
I won't think about case fans at all, until I've settled on the case & any filters, ducting etc.

Quote:

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Rather than getting overly worried about fan choice I would recommend you invest in a good fan controller and then you can try to tune the stock case fans to a level where the noise is acceptable and see if they're performing well enough for you.

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I was of the understanding that modern mobos are sophisticated enough such that, with the right BIOS/software, one needn't bother with a dedicated controller/rheobus?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaldskryke

Yes, they are different processes. Neither of them are great at removing bacteria, but you've got a killcoil or biocide for that. Both remove ions, but distillation is more likely to remove non-ionic solids. Deionization is cheap, and there's no real reason why they can't use it in conjunction with distillation, but I'm not sure there's much benefit to doing both. The cheap water I bought at my local store says it's distilled and deionized :shrug:
Either should be just fine for watercooling.

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Thanks mate, makes sense...
I could've sworn I read that you have one or the other, but having both applied isn't possible.
But after some more reading I don't see why not, whether or not it makes a real-world difference is another matter though.

Cheap DI "&" Distilled water almost seems like dodgy advertising...
Why would they go for the "double whammy" when gains are likely minimal (certainly for most end-uses) but the costs real?

Finally, would you remove or add anything to this list:
must-have items I've ordered, or am close to ruling-in/out!

Not really sure what your specific questions are at this point, jalyst. I think you have everything figured out, looking at your order list.

I see no need to be concerned about a corrosion issue with the Edge kit - Swiftech has a lot of experience and I doubt they would put together products that would cause you an issue. Just go with your distilled (or deionized) water and your biocide.

Controlling fans with your motherboard can be tricky - sometimes it works great, other times not so great. Generally, when we're doing water cooling - this adds more than the typical amount of fans to the system, making it impractical to hook radiator fans to the motherboard. If you don't have a fan controller, you'll want to hook your extra fans up directly to your PSU. Again - it depends on your motherboard - maybe you have enough connectors, and maybe you'll have control capabilities. BUT (and this is just my opinion) - I think it's cleaner and safer to leave the majority of fans off the motherboard, and I wouldn't recommend piggy backing fans on any one header on the board.

Fan controllers are cheap - and give you flexibility, but they are not a necessity.

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Originally Posted by shazza

I think you have everything figured out, looking at your order list.

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Would you have included anything else in that list?

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Originally Posted by shazza

I see no need to be concerned about a corrosion issue with the Edge kit - Swiftech has a lot of experience and I doubt they would put together products that would cause you an issue.

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Of course, I realise this, but I'm still curious what the plenum is made of.
I will have a closer look at product doco and their site, thanks.

Quote:

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Controlling fans with your motherboard can be tricky - sometimes it works great, other times not so great. Generally, when we're doing water cooling - this adds more than the typical amount of fans to the system, making it impractical to hook radiator fans to the motherboard. If you don't have a fan controller, you'll want to hook your extra fans up directly to your PSU. Again - it depends on your motherboard - maybe you have enough connectors, and maybe you'll have control capabilities. BUT (and this is just my opinion) - I think it's cleaner and safer to leave the majority of fans off the motherboard, and I wouldn't recommend piggy backing fans on any one header on the board.

Fan controllers are cheap - and give you flexibility, but they are not a necessity.

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All stuff I knew but always good to hear it from someone else, so thanks!

I think I'll play it by ear....
The total no. of fans I end-up with, & the sort of capacity/control I have via my board...
Will determine if I jump to a discrete controller for at least some of my fans.

If the need becomes clear I'll do some research, and maybe start a dedicated thread.

Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by jalyst

Would ya'll have included anything else in that list?

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Anyone reckon I'm missing one or two things??

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Of course, I realise this, but I'm still curious what the plenum is made of.
I will have a closer look at product doco and their site, thanks.

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It's Brass baby :)

Quote:

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I think I'll play it by ear....
The total no. of fans I end-up with, & the sort of capacity/control I have via my board...
Will determine if I jump to a discrete controller for at least some of my fans.

If the need becomes clear I'll do some research, and maybe start a dedicated thread.

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Not a priority as of this time...
But if anyone knows of a top-notch discrete controller system, I'd love to hear about it!?

Thank-you!