Help with first crunching rig (Sweden)

Hello, fellow crunchers!

I'm looking for a cheap dedicated crunching rig and can't really find or figure out how to get a sossaman over here. I've been reading some on the forum but am still quite the amateur when it comes to crunching and computers. Basically, I'm just here because Rise :clap: told me to!

Anyway, here's a rig I'm thinking about, but I'm not sure if it's optimized as for bang/buck.

http://i41.tinypic.com/izmgrk.jpg

How important is amount and speed of RAM? Should I put some more money down on the PSU? Should I get a processor with L3 cache? How important is cooling in this case (no pun intended, just realized it before posting)? I couldn't find any info on possibilities for additional fans...

AND of course any other input that might be helpful will be greatly appreciated!

//Samsi under the influence (sry bout that)

Personal suggestions: Leave the Seagate drive on the shelf. Get a Western Digital.
RAM: While speed has an effect in absolute terms, it is so small that you may as well consider it irrelevant. Just make sure it's good quality, suited to the motherboard and that you have enough.
Cache: Cache is GOOD. More cache is BETTER (to put it overly simply)
Cooling: You may well be running this at 100% load, 24hrs a day, 7 days a week. Cooling is important. Stock coolers are ... ok at stock speeds. If you're planning on over clocking your hardware get better cooling. If you're planning on having the hardware for a long time, get better cooling.
PSU: I don't see what video solution you're planning on but I'd start looking around the 500-550W area. If you're planning on crunching with your GPU you MIGHT want more. It depends on the card(s) you choose.

Well, I was opting for no video card at all. What you wrote is basically the impression I got from the intro-thread, but it's nice to get reassurance.
The Seagate was the cheapest one available, that's why I picked it.
So maybe I should go for a different processor (but still in the same price range, preferably), better cooling (although ocing isn't really that interesting today) and maybe more power?
As for cooling, I was first going with the Antec 300 case, but then I realized that this was way cheaper. I might go back though, 'cause the 300's a lot better looking too ;)


Thanks for the help. The rest of you, feel free to contribute as well.

As a side note, there's a moustache campaign in Sweden right now. Save your moustache to raise awareness for postatic cancer!

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Originally Posted by samsi

Well, I was opting for no video card at all. What you wrote is basically the impression I got from the intro-thread, but it's nice to get reassurance.
The Seagate was the cheapest one available, that's why I picked it.
So maybe I should go for a different processor (but still in the same price range, preferably), better cooling (although ocing isn't really that interesting today) and maybe more power?
As for cooling, I was first going with the Antec 300 case, but then I realized that this was way cheaper. I might go back though, 'cause the 300's a lot better looking too ;)


Thanks for the help. The rest of you, feel free to contribute as well.

As a side note, there's a moustache campaign in Sweden right now. Save your moustache to raise awareness for postatic cancer!

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If you just not crunching with a video card, I think 350-450 watts is enough, depending on the quality of the power supply.

The processor will do fine, but overclocking makes a heck lot of a difference in terms of points. Make sure you get better cooling.

Also, by cooling D_A meant the heatsinks, not just the case.

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Originally Posted by lkiller123

Also, by cooling D_A meant the heatsinks, not just the case.

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Yes. Case (I have an Antec 300 and you really need to put some kind of screen on the side panel, plus a 120mm fan on the front would help. The 300 takes two extra on the front and one on the side, if you want) airflow is important and so is the heatsink on the CPU.

I have an Antec 300 and added 2 fans to the front of the case. It's a pretty awesome case....

Ok, here's my input:

PSU: It's fine. My Phenom has been crunching on 350W without trouble for well over a year, and it has a GT9400 for graphics, 2 harddrives and 2 optical drives. But unfortunately not OC'd, so don't know how that will affect it. I'd think it's fine though.

My view on the case, get one you like if you're going to put it in anything, cuz you shouldn't ever have to replace it, just upgrade what's in it. (But I also don't spend too much on cases... just a decent one with airflow, leave the side off.)

I'd be tempted to throw an old 512mb stick on top of that 1gig for the ram.

Harddrive: I'll second D_A, if it's not too much different, go WD.

And since it's a dedicated cruncher, you probably don't need a Optical drive, just borrow one from another computer to install OS and you're good. :yepp:

Oh, and definitely get an aftermarket cooler. You're system will be more stable and last longer with less problems.

Just a side note, I think you'd get better PPD/$$$ going with one of intels new i3/i5/i7s. If you overclock it, (according to snoro's numbers anyway) a i3 will match, if not beat this in output and an i7, while a little more expensive will kill it. I know it's a bit more of an investment, but I've done both. (Phenom then i7) and the extra was more than worth it in my opinion. But I'll leave that to you, no pressure either way.

Hope that helps a little! :up:

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Originally Posted by Otis11

Ok, here's my input:

Just a side note, I think you'd get better PPD/$$$ going with one of intels new i3/i5/i7s. If you overclock it, (according to snoro's numbers anyway) a i3 will match, if not beat this in output and an i7, while a little more expensive will kill it. I know it's a bit more of an investment, but I've done both. (Phenom then i7) and the extra was more than worth it in my opinion. But I'll leave that to you, no pressure either way.

Hope that helps a little! :up:

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snoro posted i5-750 numbers.

This is my opinion though as well... For more output, an i5-750 is what I think I would build with. It should net you about $100 more (no clue how many kr, or even what that is really) and get you almost twice the output (maybe ~180%). This is a guess though, I have not seen any propus numbers.

For probably about the same output, about the same cost, and less power consumption, build with an i3. (they overclock like beasts too without getting too hot)

Oh, and I believe money spent on a good PSU is money well spent. Consider efficiency over rated wattage though.

I'll third what D_A and Otis said about WD hardrives also - I won't buy anything else anymore.

Interesting...



I'll see if I can put a cheap i5/i3 together. I like the 300, and it does have good cooling options. Cooling seems to be even more important than I thought.

Edit: What would the equivalent to the i5 be? Phenom x6?

Yeah, the optical drive hits the pixelated bin. Good point!

As for the RAM, it's 2x1gig, don't know if you saw that, Otis. At first I went with 3x1 but I don't think it's worth the extra cash. Is it?

Thanks again for the help and info.

For crunching purposes there's very little, if anything, between single and triple channel RAM performance. I'd imagine the same would apply to triple channel as well. Just make sure you have ENOUGH so that that your system doesn't need to access the swap file/partition regularly because that WILL hurt crunching performance. I like to run about 1GB per core, but others find 512KB per core works fine as well. (most of my machines are also full desktop machines as well)

*512mb.

3x1 GB is fine for an i7 920 with HT (8 threads)

so I guess 2x1 GB will be enough for an i5 750 (with 4 threads)

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Originally Posted by ggdh

*512mb.

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Five hundred and twelve millibits?
(lower case 'm' means "milli" or "thousandths", an upper case 'M' means "mega" and a lower case 'b' means "bits" not "bytes" which is an upper case 'B' )

Yes, my KB should have been MB :shakes:

I think you shouldn't cheap out on the PSU

(And since your swedish) köp en bättre PSU ;)

What's a reliable brand/model for PSU's then? I'm completely lost there.

It's been rewarding trying to find cheap deals, but I don't think I can compromise too much on my budget. I'll probably go with the Athlon processor, I can always set up a new rig in a few months and use this one for surfing.

Oh, and I was wondering about the i5 vs Phenom 2 x6 - which one is likely to dish out more ppd?

Ah, my bad... only saw 1GB...

And for the i5 vs x6, snoro somehow managed 24k ppd out of his 750, which is rather impressive, but other than that i would GUESS the would be about equal, anyone want to chime in?

And for the PSU, go here.
Little old, but still true

No worries, just wanted to make sure we're talking about the same thing ;)

I was asking, because the price difference between the X4 635 and the i5 650 is like 100 usd but from i5 to X6 it's only a cool 20. But now it seems like I'm heading for the cheaper option anyway, so it doesn't really matter. Did some reading in the X6 thread and it was a pretty rewarding read.

EDIT: X6 1055T that is!

And thanks a lot for the PSU link!

C'mon D_A, you know what i meant :cool: (and as engineer and soon phd i know the difference between "m" and "M" ;))

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Originally Posted by D_A

Yes, my KB should have been MB :shakes:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ggdh

C'mon D_A, you know what i meant :cool: (and as engineer and soon phd i know the difference between "m" and "M" ;))

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I did acknowledge that. :p:

People, especially those who should know better, using "shorthand" instead of something close to proper nomenclature for various units of measurement is a pet hate of mine (and why I am ticked at myself for using the wrong one in my original post :shakes: )

Ok, new question. Is the mobo ok for OCing the X4? It's pretty cheap and according to this forum, cheap mobos are... unreliable.

523 kr = 60 usd

Just looked it up, that board does have OCing options, but the lack of any cooling for the board would make me nervous for 24/7 operation, even at stock speeds, but that's just me. -I tend to be cautious on this type of thing

Keep in mind though that AMD boards cost significantly less than intel boards of the same quality. (just because of how often intel changes sockets.)

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Originally Posted by Otis11

(just because of how often intel changes sockets.)

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I'd wager Intel chipset chips may cost more per board as well, but thats a guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Otis11

Ah, my bad... only saw 1GB...

And for the i5 vs x6, snoro somehow managed 24k ppd out of his 750, which is rather impressive, but other than that i would GUESS the would be about equal, anyone want to chime in?

And for the PSU, go here.
Little old, but still true

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According to Vapor's chart, derived from data collected here, the X6 should do slightly better given that you can clock them the same.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...8&postcount=61

From the chart in this thread:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=250607
it looks like they clock pretty well. 1055 and the BE (1055 may not do it on air)

24ppd at 4.1GHz, is 5.85 ppd/MHz
(http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...2&postcount=32)

Assuming that the data is correct, I would think that the X6 would do better.
at an equal 4.1GHz - ~27k ppd. This of course assumes that you can get 4.1 out of it.

Another consideration, the 1055 X6 has a stock power rating of 125W vs 95W for the i5-750.

I like them both.

^^ Yeah, that's about what I was thinkin. Good research though. :up:

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Originally Posted by samsi

Hello, fellow crunchers!

I'm looking for a cheap dedicated crunching rig and can't really find or figure out how to get a sossaman over here. I've been reading some on the forum but am still quite the amateur when it comes to crunching and computers. Basically, I'm just here because Rise :clap: told me to!

Anyway, here's a rig I'm thinking about, but I'm not sure if it's optimized as for bang/buck.

http://i41.tinypic.com/izmgrk.jpg

How important is amount and speed of RAM? Should I put some more money down on the PSU? Should I get a processor with L3 cache? How important is cooling in this case (no pun intended, just realized it before posting)? I couldn't find any info on possibilities for additional fans...

AND of course any other input that might be helpful will be greatly appreciated!

//Samsi under the influence (sry bout that)

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How expensive is the X4-630 versus that X4-635? Also, what about the price of an X6-1055T? The 1055T, I'd assume, is 50+% faster for WCG.