TLB fix applied to Phenom 9850BE by AMD Overdrive in XP SP2

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08-22-2008, 02:15 PM
Phenomenalspeed

TLB fix applied to Phenom 9850BE by AMD Overdrive in XP SP2

:confused:

Edit
It was not Windows XP SP2 but AMD Overdrive 2.1.2

For a while my memory latency in everest benchmark has been inexplicably high. I couldn't work out why.
Today I downloaded Winrar and ran its benchmark. The speed was very slow. By now I started to put 2 and 2 together.

I ran Sam's tool and sure enough the TLB fix is enabled. I could tell by the numbers in the MSRs. After I disabled the TLB fix everest memory latency and winrar benchmarks improved by alot.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8...enabledam4.jpg

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/750...isabledzi4.jpg

I have been using a beta BIOS and I thought that this could be the culprit.
I flashed back the latest official BIOS and it is still the same. The fix is still applied! Every time I restart I find (from seeing the registers and benchmarks) that the TLB fix is applied. I have looked in the BIOSes and cannot find a TLB patch option.

I have tried using Windows XP scheduled tasks to make Sam's TLB disable work at startup/logon and I have not got it to work.

I can't understand why this fix is being applied in this operating system version and with this B3 stepping chip.
What makes matters even more strange is that I installed Windows Vista 64bit SP1 yesterday and the fix is not applied! SP1 was supposedly applying the fix even to B3 stepping CPUs but not with mine.

This is the complete opposite of what I was expecting to see.

Has anyone got any ideas, suggestions please? I am baffled.:shrug:
Please help.

Thanks.
08-22-2008, 02:35 PM
informal

Best i can think of is that OS got screwed up in some weird way.I mean,especially in SP2,OS shouldn't in no way force TLB fix with B3.
Do you have AOD running at startup?What does it show(red,yellow or green)?

I would do an experiment and install the same OS on second partition.
08-22-2008, 02:53 PM
Sparky

I was afraid of this. I was thinking that how it was going to work was see AMD Phenom, ignore the model number, and apply the "fix"
08-22-2008, 03:27 PM
Blacklash

That's terrible. So Phenom performance gets ganked by MS even when it doesn't need the patch.
08-22-2008, 03:38 PM
Sparky

[conspiracy theory]
inside job with intel?
[/conspiracy theory]
08-22-2008, 04:05 PM
Mechromancer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklash

That's terrible. So Phenom performance gets ganked by MS even when it doesn't need the patch.

+1, what he said....

I wonder how many reviews have been affected since the B3s have come out?
08-22-2008, 04:07 PM
charged3800z24

weird.. I have Phenom 9850, vista home premium, and all updates including SP1. I don't have that issue on mine....

Edit: Oh you said XP SP2.. either way.. I haven't had the problem with any SP from MS in XP either. I am currently running SP2 on my XP load aswell..
08-22-2008, 04:20 PM
gOtVoltage

9950 with TA770 XP32bit SP3....

I use (TLB disable with the Modded Bios from Polygon)...Only way for me to disable it..Thats another reason im Going with a 790GX Biostar..Theres tweaks for Tlb by you guessed it Polygon...Sams2008 tweaks are great for vista,, but i do not want two tweaks for something that dosnt need it to be applied ..Its so cruel:rolleyes:

When i Enable TLB Fix i do loose performance just like with the B2..

So i always make shure its disabled in BIOS.

I Have not went to Vista with SP1 yet because of this...

B2 Fix Implimented it into OS bad idea ,... Bios updates were enuff for that run of chips....

I hope MS removes the BS TLB..which a Bios can enable/disable unlike the OS,,with out editing your life away:mad:

Install AOD or run SuperPi before and after and youll see that the TLB fix is still there with Vista..It should in no way be on XPSP3...But if it is this means your Bios has it Enabled (Make shure it is Disabled or your performance will be lower.)

Note: I dont think everyone checks thier Vista/Xp Bios TLB seting with B3 ..I know i do coming from B2..I also dosnt affect everyone..I almost think that there is a code that disables for B3 bases on stepping reading but i am not shure if this is the case...All i know is it affects my chip if i dont disable it in Bios..

P.S.

My SP3 dosnt apply it ,,but the Bios will if the Bios isnt disabling it..Maybe try a differnt Bios then remove CPU after Clearing Cmos the first time ..Like its a fresh install with CPU...Also maybe load XP on another drive ...

Whats the latency with GANGED..? Unganged is slower latency usually compared to Ganged,, 90 is kinda high@800mhz.

Also is AOD completely uninstalled ..it could be Enabling the Crap at start up even when its not suppose to...I noticed you have Aod icon on desktop...Uninstall it and any folders AOD has...Then use Everest or Supi to see if Enable and Disable is working in your Bios...
08-22-2008, 04:59 PM
Phenomenalspeed

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

Best i can think of is that OS got screwed up in some weird way.I mean,especially in SP2,OS shouldn't in no way force TLB fix with B3.
Do you have AOD running at startup?What does it show(red,yellow or green)?

I would do an experiment and install the same OS on second partition.

Thanks informal. You may well be on to something. I'm going to bed now but I will give this a try tomorrow.
Actually I do have AMD Overdrive set to start up with windows. The button is green. I am using AMD Overdrive version 2.1.2. Also I didn't install it in Vista. Perhaps that is the issue. I really hope it's something that simple. I will try that first before taking the more drastic option.
Lots of people use AMD Overdrive and as far as I know this doens't happen to them. There must be something I could do to get it work without doing that (assuming it is)

Please read posts properly before you reply. The problem is not there on Vista SP1 or XP SP3 (I don't have it)
As I said I already checked bios (2 versions actually) and there is no option in the BIOS(es).

Quote:

+1, what he said....

I wonder how many reviews have been affected since the B3s have come out?

Quote:

[conspiracy theory]
inside job with intel?
[/conspiracy theory]

This is not a thread for chit chat.
If you have something serious and useful to add then by all means post, if not then I'll thank you to refrain from posting.

Back on topic.

gOtvoltage you have got me thinking more about the BIOS. The more I think about it the more I don't think that's the issue. If the BIOS was applying the patch then I should be seeing the same throttled benchmarks in Vista SP1 too if even if there's no patch applied by the operating system itself.
Thanks.

Quote:

Whats the latency with GANGED..? Unganged is slower latency usually compared to Ganged,, 90 is kinda high@800mhz

I have never ever used ganged mode. The latency went down to a more typical ~60ns after using Sam's tool.
08-22-2008, 06:25 PM
dball3

i had the same problem on my ecs black 780g board with an 8450, but it was vista 32bit. It was an early bios, and there is no enable or disable switch in the bios. I tried the tlb fix but that didn't even work. They released a new bios last month and i ran winrar bench and thankfully it wasn't at 300kbs any more. So that just leads me to believe it's some sloppy bios work going on, and not all microshaft.
08-23-2008, 06:34 AM
emlyn_dewar

Edit
08-23-2008, 06:41 AM
JumpingJack

This probably has more to do with a faulty or simply badly coded BIOS (official or not), I ran the same test the OP ran on XP for Browncoat a few months ago. On an Asus M3AMPV-Deluxe I do not get this result. Applying the TLB fix in BIOS does fix a 9600 BE, but has no effect on the 9850 BE on my rig. I have not tried it in software though....

My guess is that the Gigabyte BIOS is not associating the TLB patch with the correct CPUID. The TLB patch essentially 'turns off' the TLB more or less, so the same MSRs setting should have the same effect on B3 or B2. If the BIOS is written correctly, then it would know from CPUIDs what CPUs can and should be 'fixed' and those that 'are not fixed'.

You should try flipping the TLB patch on/off in BIOS and check. You can acccess Gigabyte advanced BIOS options with the F4 key, I think that's it, or is it ALT-F2 at startup... been awhile since I worked with Gigabyte BIOSes.

Jack
08-23-2008, 09:33 AM
Rammsteiner

Jesus, this is really crap though.

I think Windows shouldnt be involved into 'fixing' things from a hardware point of view anymore. Then you get this crap.

IMO this should be done only via BIOS.
08-23-2008, 10:40 AM
Phenomenalspeed

Right I feel a bit stupid now.
It was a false alarm. I have edited the thread title to be less sensationalist and so that I don't mislead anyone else.
Sorry.

It turns out it was not the operating system but it was AMD Overdrive 2.1.2. Yes I did have it running at startup.
I uninstalled it as recommended here and removed the directories and the TLB fix is now gone thankfully.
I am astonished by this. It's one thing for a third party operating system to apply the patch but this is AMD's own software. !!
It can't tell the difference between a B3 and a B2 stepping AMD Phenom.:down:

I would still like to use AMD overdrive. Does anyone know how I can configure it so that it doesn't apply the patch/fix??
Thanks.
08-23-2008, 10:47 AM
informal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phenomenalspeed

It turns out it was not the operating system but it was AMD Overdrive 2.1.2.

Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

Do you have AOD running at startup?What does it show(red,yellow or green)?

:D

Good you finally resolved the issue man :up:
08-23-2008, 11:07 AM
Phenomenalspeed

Quote:

Originally Posted by emlyn_dewar

I'm going to be running a 9600 with Vista 64bit/SP1 in the next couple of weeks, is there a "simple" way to stop the OS enabling the TLB fix? I'm not remotely concerned about the TLB error in the B2s, I don't think I'll be doing anything which would make me experience it... Just don't want gimped performance due to a fix which should not be in an operating system.

You can use Sam's tool to disable it.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=180338
http://www.rebelshavenforum.com/sis-...;f=13;t=000111

The patch will be applied to B2s in Vista SP1 as far as I know. It will hinder your performance if you do not switch it off. Check the screenshots in my first post.
I can confirm that Vista SP1 (and XP SP2 :D) definitely doesn't apply the fix/patch to my B3 Phenom
08-23-2008, 11:14 AM
gOtVoltage

Some wierd unexplainable chance :worship:.Maybe thers little Green men :bounce:running around inside the origanal OS . Some :alien:UFO:alien: program borked that keeps TLB enabled...SP2SP3 even sounds like an alien killa :ROTF:" Unidentified Freqency Organism" Aka TLBfix,, MS invented it ,, to bad,, like Area51 :caution: experiments gone wrong...:explode2:

They have escaped ,, :alien::bounce: AOD ..:alien::bounce:

I hate AOD.....

Hee nice to know ya got it fixed,,

I was party all night hahaaa and was :owned:by SouthernComfort and JackDaniels along with Guinness :toast2:..Im still drinking:coffee:and spinning like:confused2 crazy..
08-23-2008, 11:41 AM
Phenomenalspeed

Thanks for the suggestions informal and gOtVoltage.
08-25-2008, 11:15 AM
Phenomenalspeed

I tested it and it doesn't matter whether the button is red or green.
What exactly was causing the TLB fix to be applied was having AMD Overdrive startup automatically with Windows bootup.