WARNING:
DON'T BUY ALUMINIUM WATERBLOCKS :slap:
OR MIXED /// COPPER base with ALUMINIUM COVER /// :slapass:
:stick:
http://forum.pctuning.cz/images/smiles/blee.gif
Printable View
WARNING:
DON'T BUY ALUMINIUM WATERBLOCKS :slap:
OR MIXED /// COPPER base with ALUMINIUM COVER /// :slapass:
:stick:
http://forum.pctuning.cz/images/smiles/blee.gif
What the FU*K!? :confused:
Ew!!!!
OMG Is that true ?
omg!!
Duh? :confused:
Yea, that happens. :shakes:
Can somebody explain the chemistry or whatnot involved here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by shikuva
to me :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Loony
looks like some has been eating to many veges and has being pooing green :p:
[img]http://smiliesftw.com/big/noesaway512.gif[ / img]
*EDITed by IFMU*
Point to this post other than?.....
vegetable :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by perfection
haha!Quote:
Originally Posted by _G_
*EDITed by IFMU*
Point to this post?.....
What liquid did you use ?
I used ONLY destilled water without any "admixture" to stop corrosion :brick:Quote:
Originally Posted by mat8861
:owned:
Gah, that's disgusting! but then again, you should have known better not to add anti-corro stuff :slap:
but this looks more than simply corrosion *pukes*
Delicious! Put that on your salad next time you have some
ONLY water ? UNBELIEVABLE:eek: :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkerSk
Sorry guys, but Im gonna have to be controversial and disagree with the non use of AL blocks :(
Infact AL has a "natural" resistance to water:
"aluminum is immersed in pure water, it will form a white hydroxide film, which remains more or less constant in thickness"
From the above pics, there are lots of reasons that this can occur,mixed materials, had a pump that had way too much pressure, water that had a low Ph (acidic) but it was probably because it didnt have any glycol in.
As long as your not careless and look after your loop this wont happen.
For those interested in the a bit of chemistry and al corrosion and my source please see:
http://lytron.com/support/anti_corrosive.htm
However this thread is a good warning for those with AL block to stick a nice amount of anti-freeze (Normally a nice source of ethylene glycol)
In fact Marci..if your around (being a great source of all water cooling knowledge in the uk :)) how do you find al? and would you agree/disagree with anything I have said?
*Im pretty sure that ONLY water in an AL loop will do more damage than good :( you need good anti freeze with glycol and anti corrosion ingredients and you will have trouble free operation with an AL loop
If you hade some glycol (or other alcohol based liquid) with destilled water you wouldnt have that green icky stuff.
How about adhering to industry practices in general and not using it altogether so that there's less work/planning to be involved on the consumer side. Not to mention, Copper dissipates heat better. The use of ALU is shoddy craftsmanship and design.Quote:
Originally Posted by rogard
By forcing us to use additives, we lower the theoretical amount of heat that can be dissipated instead of having gone a 100% solution of distilled water.
By making excuses for companies, we just shoot ourselves in the foot.
LOL very true!Quote:
Originally Posted by ranker
its does not look very nice ...
BUT
Warning: please do not use massive red text with a mix of capital letters and non-capital letters. (it's damn annoying expecially when your lappy screen is 1024*768)
I guess you should've. Nothing wrong with alu blocks if used properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkerSk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown
heheh.... nice edit of the original text
you are probably right.. to use just distilled water is not very smart, i always use some glycol based antifreeze to kill algae and other nasty things in my loops ..Quote:
Originally Posted by DataNusse
SharkerSk Thats what i call an aqua park.. rofl
OK, now I'm confused. Here I am with my finger on the trigger of a CPU block purchase(literally), and you show me stuff like this? Can someone just alleviate any fears that I may have with buying an Apogee GTX? Reading this thread mixed with this one:http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=145609
makes me wonder if I've made the right choice. Before I click the mouse button, is the GTX safe to use, or should I just *step* down to the GT?
As long as your not mixing Aluminium water blocks with copper water blocks you should have no problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by LogAn'sRun
I doubt Swiftech would release a block that is not up to standards.Quote:
Originally Posted by LogAn'sRun
If there's something you can't possibly fault is their craftmanship.
Besides, there's not yet any thread labelled "Apogee GTX sux!", and people in these forums are pretty much as extreme as it gets.
That's a failure of anodization and a failure to use anticorrosives in a loop knowingly containing aluminum. This failure was your fault.
If you want to see an aluminum waterblock in a mixed metal loop that's still fine, when I break this system next I'll tear apart mine and show you. Hell, the stainless in mine goes before the aluminum does. IF you take proper precautions, these things don't happen.
And if you're so worried about what a little bit of anticorrosive does to your temps, hell, run ammonia. Better temps all around.
*EDITed by IFMU*
While the info was, well, informative, how about being a bit less rude next time.
Thanks
IFMU
LOL!. Ammonia will nyam nyam through the loop big time.Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] Kayin
Mind you, galvanic corrosion won't be an issue.
Mainly because the tubing and most likely the impeller assembly will just disintegrate.
Afterwards you will spend some time coughing blood and the computer (or lack of it) will be the least of your concerns.
Overall a great improvement ^^;
Never said it was safer. But it is more thermally capacitive than water all around. I mean, this is XtremeSystems, right? Don't we want everything we can get? What's a lung for performance? *sarcasm is wearing thin even for me...*
For every pic like that you post, I can show you tens or hundreds of blocks that didn't do that. There come a point in time where you have to recognize 1. It's a chance, 2. It's not a good chance, 3. I can do things to prevent it, 4. This is a rare occurrence. He admitted he ran no anticorrosive. I'm sorry that you're that dim. That sucks for you, but it doesn't mean that everyone's stuff will do that. In fact, most people's dont.
My old Koolance's biggest problem was algae. That was it. Once I learned about bleach, I was fine. I ran freaking bleach water in an aluminum radiator and three years later when I got rid of it it was still going fine.
I'm sorry that this happened. But, quit running around saying that it will happen to any aluminum. That's FUD, no science. Quit the drama already.
*EDITed by IFMU*
While again, informative and overall a decent post. Minus this,Yes, I am in a bad mood and sick of seeing people bash even slightly, it will come to an end.Quote:
I'm sorry that you're that dim
IFMU
Gee, blanket statements. And insinuations that other countries are stupid. Good going :rolleyes: can't wait to leave this country. And then there's going to be the obligatory, "good, can't wait for you to leave" statement coming upQuote:
Originally Posted by IanY
*EDITed by IFMU*
While I can see that this may well be taken that way, I do believe he meant that the way it was written.
Living in america makes a company very easy to sue for some pamby mamby crap. So it is doubtful they would actually want this outcome.
IFMU
wow, i was about to say the same thingQuote:
Originally Posted by ziddey
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Yes, you insuinated that only american companys are smart enough to do some R&D.
edit: guess I mentioned that before. thought you were kgb for a second
Funny, the statement made perfect sense to me. The reference was a bit broken, but he is clearly talking about the fact that Swifty isn't gonna make a product that is instant legal buttrape. (as the above posted block may be...)
*EDITed by IFMU*
Well put, thank you for clarifying.
IFMU
Like in any other country a lot of idiots live in the US. Some of those idiots own companies or are employed to perform important tasks for companies (R&D for example). And yes, in some markets weak companies can survive, because there isn't enough competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Al + Cu = :down: nomatter what liquid you use or how you cote the Al.
hey, alexio hit the nail on the head. America is the breeding ground for idiots. There's still good like swiftech and others, but everyday, you'll still find yourself surrounded by idiots. and if not that, you get hicks. hippies. oh man. and of course, in some places, you get hippy hicks. goodie!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
i cant help but think you've got 85 star spangled banners waving about outside your house / on your car and that you feel america is the pinacle of any civilisations.
Basically, a chap has had a bad experience with an alu block and feels no one should ever use them and by R&D i mean that any company will do some to make sure that if used correctly i.e. with the correct water addatives to stop corrosion that this kind of thing will not happen, which, he hasn't.
*EDITed by IFMU*
How about we put this bull to rest? Now.
IFMU
You know what, if we wanna disprove this, I'm willing to offer my loop. I'll run aluminum components and wait for my system to die. Granted, i do get anticorrosive.
Oh wait, I'm doing it. I've got the chemistry know-how to make a polyoxmethylene substitute from stuff off the shelf at Hobby Lobby, and I'm still running it. Granted, that loop is filled with PC Ice. Superior lubrication properties for pumps and good anticorrosive properties...
There's a reason that Innovatek will not warranty anything that did not use InnovaProtect fluid-cause they are aware of the AL nobility issue, and they have created a product to cope. Same with AC. These companies know about the issues and have made additives that address this issue.
GREEN OATMEAL! that stuff is actually disgusting looking
does that mean if I went with the MCW60 I would have problems? Or is is so simple as to use a little anticorrussive and badda boom badda bing no problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by safan80
Or should I choose another GPU block that fits n-series 7 now with upgrade to NS 8 in the future if I want to run the GTX? Sorry to be so noob and hijack the thread, but we are talking about aluminum (like in the title) and not how america is superior/inferior. . . :rolleyes:
Boy, I guess you really like offending people don't you, just where the heck do you get off putting labels on peope like "HICKS and HIPPY HICKS, just because someone lives out in the country and lives a simple live, doesn't give you the right to start calling them aHICK or HIPPY HICK.Quote:
Originally Posted by ziddey
Seeing as you live in NY, I guess I could label you a big city :banana::banana::banana: or Peter Puffer, if the shoe fits I guess.
*EDITed by IFMU*
How about we put this bull to rest? Now.
IFMU
This is quoted directly from the product sheet of the Apogee GTX:Quote:
Originally Posted by LogAn'sRun
As I stated before, if there's something you can't fault Swiftech for is craftmanship. These people know their onions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apogee GTX
If you don't deliberately scratch the plating, you won't get any galvanic corrosion.
People like that just really piss me off and bring out the worst in me................:shocked: They just make me want to ripoff their heads and crap in their necks.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Attitudes like that about Americans is the main reason I moved out of Germany to the US, to get away from closed mined fools like that.
*EDITed by IFMU*
How about we put this bull to rest? Now.
IFMU
Been using Koolance Rads for a few years. These are made of Alu. We use them with copper water blocks. I have sold 68 systems using koolance. I change the koolance fluids 1 a year is these systems. Not once have I found any . ANY! form of corrusion.
You can find all kinds od corrosion stories in systems that use copper only. Were did that corrosion come from.
I believe some people have had issues with mixing copper and Alu. But its way over played by people in the forums who seem to be pushing or selling other parts.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Running an Apogee GTX in a backup machines loop, no issues at all.
MrToad,
thanks for the reply, I figured as much but it always helps to have someone give that extra push!
I'll be placing that order when I get home, and man I can't wait to begin to WC!!!! woOt
Well the GTX has a nickel plating over it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hard H20
This guy's block I think didn't even have anodization.
Sure you can put additives in to inhibit corrosion but why do that when you must compromise on performance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziddey
Do some traveling, you'll learn that every country on the planet has its fair share of idiots.
*EDITed by IFMU*
How about we put this bull to rest? Now.
IFMU
As stated, you will be fine if you use a strong anti-corrosion inhibator in your coolant. However this isn't as good as running pure water which you can do in a full copper loop.
Also aluminium sucks if being used as the base of the block or in a radiator - copper performs better.
ApogeeGTX will be fine, it's plated - I'm putting one in my loop with just water and biocide and I never usually put anything but copper, nickel plated brass and plastic in my loops.
Aluminum can be said to suck from a performance basis, but that's not even totally true. Koolance had to eat a lot of crow, but they did have a fundamental truth right. Al dissipates heat faster, Cu gathers it faster. It actually has more of an initial resistance vs aluminum. However, as the specific heat capacity of Al is lower, we tend to shy away from it, as well as the metal nobility issues. However, properly plated Al is just fine in many circumstances (I don't want an Al radiator, I like my brass ones just fine) where the specific heat output is not in excess of the transfer rate of the material. RAM blocks, MOSFET blocks, the memory channels of VGA fullcovers-all of them do not cool the most critical parts of the computer, which I agree require copper to do correctly.
The Zalman blocks plate all copper in gold to eliminate corrosion. So do Koolance. Swiftech mil-spec coats its Al. Aqua-computer often silverplates the copper cores of its coolers, and offers a few silver cored ones. It is in fact possible to create an all silver/aluminum loop from AC (if that's not a reason for the expense I dunno what is) Innovatek is plating its latest blocks. Almost everyone that offers aluminum anodizes the holy hell out of it. Occasionally there is a slipup, and there are horror pics like this and the well water pics floating around, and just like plane crashes, they're blown out of proportion because they're more publicized. More peple lose their rigs to crushing cores, spraying water and twisting tubes combined than to metal nobility concerns, but it's always Al's fault.
Keep repeating it, I'm sure some of you will believe it, but there are uses for Al even in the watercooling world. If you don't want it, don't use it, but don't assume that it's going to destroy your system in days.
ten-fold anodization or not, I would not bet my components on someething like that and a statement like yours is exactly what we dont need.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrToad
Sure swiftech is a respectable company, but if you do get galvanic corrosion problems because you have "2 anodized layers" and you ran straight distilled for performance, i am sure swiftech will tell you "too bad but you should've used swiftech hydrix aka an anti-corrosive additive" (it clearly states the use of hydrix ro other in all their manuals and all over their website)
Once again, the legal CYA. (cover your ass)
In which of my posts regarding galvanic corrosion, in this or other threads, have you seen me saying "Don't use additives"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Senater_Cache
Go to the toilet and slap yourself three times in the face, will you?
People putting words in my mouth is what I don't need, thank you very much.
If you have a look at my rig in the gallery you'll see I use Zerex. If you search for my posts you'll realize that I've said in many occasions, much to some people's disappointment, that I use Zerex @5%. The only occasions I've mentioned, and not endorsed, the use of pure distilled water, is when the OP has asked for the best (reasonable) performing coolant.
*EDITed by IFMU*
How about we put this bull to rest? Now.
IFMU
Swiftech is a reputable company and even then they caught a lot of flak for using ALU even if it was plated to military spec. However, companies like Koolance and AC don't even go to that extreme in ensuring their product won't cause corrosion.
I'm sorry but including ALU in any form is a mistake and a disservice to the hobby. We should NOT have to be mixing concoctions in order to guarantee full functionality across the lifespan of our products. I will not respect any company that makes the end user bear the burden, when it's the company's responsibility. It's doing a disservice to the hobby when the average joe doesn't know that he can't mix and match, corrodes his blocks and swears off the hobby. We lose another possible enthusiast that helps support our hobby.
Inno, Zalman, Aqua Computers, and Koolance don't deserve any of our business until they start respecting all customers by going copper instead of cutting corners to make a larger profit margin.
It has a use for those who want underperforming but pretty blocks with small bore tubing and a flow meter hooked up to a "pretty LCD" - but I've never wanted the use of Aluminium in any of my high performance loops.Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] Kayin
Do you avoid cars with mixed metals then? If it's been proven in the automotive industry, then I'll run it in my machine.
Stop spreading misinformation. You say you want no compromises, so why stay on water? There's phase out there, submersion cooling, etc-isn't water just a cost compromise? These people target themselves at certain parts of the market. Not all the ones mentioned are even targeting the high-end OC category-there's lots of silent PC WC, as well as entry-level. It got that big, in just a few years time.
Not everyone has this limitless cash to spend on watercooling. I have bills to pay-lots of them. Nothing like three different genetic disorders under the same roof. I get what I can afford and work to improve my setup to match the temps you guys get with no limitations. THAT's Xtreme, not this "no mixed metals" bull:banana::banana::banana::banana:.
If you'll excuse me, I'm going back to flow diagrams. I'm sure I can beat even the big boys with a few of my ideas.
Ditto. You forgot to include "expensive without the performance" as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekrel
How am I spreading miss information? Show me some C/W curves of Aquacomputer, Zalman etc out performing the current champs on the market from D-TeK and Swiftech and I will listen. The problem is the price doesn't even reflect an inferior product either. The Koolance Lian Li cases are 500 dollars! You could knock up your own V1000 with a custom loop for less and perform better.Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] Kayin
So who's throwing money away now heh?
How can water be a cost compromise? Surely running a water loop is more expensive than air just by running another pump on the electricity bill let alone costing more to put together.
Phase is too loud thats why, which is why I watercool. I chose the best components so that I can have low speed fans, but still get great temperatures.
I don't avoid cars with mixed metals, because it's a car and it gets me from A to B and if it has a problem - my company has it back in for repair and I see 0 of the cost.
Wait, aluminum and copper together will cause corrosion? Thanks for the information.
*EDITed by IFMU*
The point to your post would be what exactly? Other than being a nuisance¿
IFMU
I don't think he is proding fun at anyones country, just saying less talk about it as it's offtopic.
God, you lot should come over to England and drink some of our tea, maybe it will calm you all down :D
I know his english isn't exactly perfect, but I think he just means to convey"Stop being off topic we have idiots in every country!"
Yeah I can :DQuote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Just here it is .... ::::::::::::::
http://sharker.wu.cz/viscool/slides/viscool.jpg
http://ukazto.com/img_small/VISCOOLWATERBLOCKS1.jpghttp://ukazto.com/img_small/VISCOOLWATERBLOCKS2.jpghttp://ukazto.com/img_small/old1.jpghttp://ukazto.com/img_small/old2.jpghttp://ukazto.com/img_small/old3.jpghttp://ukazto.com/img_small/old5.jpg
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/645...olvsek2wt5.jpg
These Viscool products was made by my friend(VISCOOL).
This man is from SLOVAKIA, just like me :D
Full review is HERE and HERE
You can order itHERE
More info about these cheap and well performing WBs is HERE:D
So please excuce me this little propagation of my friend's waterblocks company http://www.hojko.com/images/smiles/icon_redface.gif
edited :shrug:
*EDITed by IFMU*
How about we put this bull to rest? Now.
IFMU
Overclockers.com is ancient though, and so are half of those blocks in the table.
Really :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mekrel
I don't think so .....
"Viscool CPU Waterblock"
http://www.overclockers.com/articles1447/
Written by Joe Citarella - 5/25/07 ;)
"EK Wave (AMD64/P4 S478) Waterblock"
Joe Citarella - 8/20/06
and what about half the D-Tek blocks in that table which are no longer in production and the Silverprop blocks which again are no longer in production. TDX and RBX again are old.Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkerSk
Oh oh oh oh Ban me first!!!!
You want a cease and desist order?
Well here it is.
Keep this crap up and you won't have to worry about fighting about crap.
IFMU
Now, for anyone who has posted in here, REREAD this thread and my a-loads of edits.
If I see another post in here off topic, you will take a 3 day. I can give a rats patotie whether or not youre the pope himself. You people should know better than this crap and you either will, or you wont have to worry about it again.
Get it?
Got it?
Good.
IFMU
And thats why ladies and gentlemen, AT LEAST use a corrosion-inhibitor. Or, even better. USE 100% copper blocks.
and why hasnt this been locked yet?
As far as I can tell, Sharker made a silly move to use ALU without any inhibitors, thus he got owned, other than that there is no discussion here, any person who knows how to read (these forums), knows of galvanic corrosion and takes steps to avoid it.
*Please* either delete or lock and bury, the only thing this is doing is scaring people away from watercooling.
I disagree.
Obviouslly there are at least a few people here who do not know that mixing the metals can cause problems.
So bury it? No thanks, while there are quite a few posts here that should be deleted, and I prolly will later, there is some good info in here for the ignorant.
wow its funny to read all the IFMU warnings and ppl just like nothing....
alu+cooper = corrosion if you dont use something to prevent it in fact just use all alu or all cooper and stop worrying about it....
and for the rest of the guys wrap in newspaper and see if you mature faster
My sentiments exactly. This will educate people and hopefully wake up those manufacturers that continue to use aluminum without taking the necessary steps to ensure corrosion does not occur.Quote:
Originally Posted by IFMU
i was actually going to say the same thing. I needed a valid link to point noobies out on what happens when they mix metals.Quote:
Originally Posted by IFMU
This is the perfect thread minus the conflict that arose.
But seriously... ouch... sharka your damage is nothing compared to my cousins. You should of seen what happens when you mix reserator + TDX.
Its called a big puddle next to the reserator, and all your eq frying. :shakes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
From a noobs perspective, I actually enjoyed reading this thread (minus all the bs of course) to learn a little more and to hear from others experiences. I was planning on purchasing the Apogee GTX 1. because it was recommended in the guide by maxx, 2. I wanted to match the GPU block figuring that using the same company's parts would be wise, and 3. It just looks sexy as hell! But, I was never planning on using any form of anti-corrosive like Zerex or other forms as I have a 3,5 month old baby boy and 2 cats and a wife who would kill me twice over if anything happened to them especially because of the computer :shakes: .
I have just re-read Maxx's Water Cooling Guide: The basics. . . again and realized the parts that I skimmed over were a little more important than I thought. "With that said, for those who do NOT plan to run mixed metals, a good biocide (kills organic life) would be optimum, as no corrosion inhibitor is needed." Since I don't want to take any risks at all with human/animal life (computer on the other hand is replacable), my choice is very simple and for me it is to run all copper with distilled water. So now my CPU block will either be the GT or the Fuzion as I plan on running only one loop with no zerex. . .
Thanks for the info.
Okay ..sorry my fault, excuce me :idea:Quote:
Originally Posted by IFMU
I have had serious problem with galvanic corrosion in aluminium waterblock one year ago and so, I think that this problem could be interesting for other people :shrug: Anyway .... :(
it has nothing to do with water, copper cannot contact aluminum or you see the results. here why in elementary terms
http://www.exploratorium.edu/snacks/hand_battery.html
SharkerSk,
Funny thing is that you have a link in your sig to the viscool.com CPU block section where there is a Al-Cu corrosion demonstration in water, in distilled water and in distilled water with corrosion inhibitors.
Yet you did not use any additives.
wdrzal,
Please do elaborate as the site you linked to contradicts yourself.
Largon .... they are using only noryl and plastic covers for their waterblocks.
They probably forget update their website :D I'll contact them :rolleyes:
:p:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...nium+corrosion ...says it all.Quote:
In fact Marci..if your around
My stance on the use of aluminium is well-documented both here and on all other sites I frequent... that being, just avoid using it and thus avoid the complications that come alongside it. (ie: Is the anodizing good enough...? Has the enduser done sufficient research to know he HAS to use an additive...? Already there are now two factors out of anyone's control to account for - remove the use of aluminium, remove two uncontrollable factors, and thus remove the need for this entire topic which crops up with monotonous regularity every 6 weeks and has doneso for eons)
If we could have the faith that folks would use additive, then this wouldn't be a problem, but this whole thread highlights a lack of research, plain and simple. For nearing 10 years it's been common knowledge that you need to run anticorrosive additives alongside aluminium blocks in watercooling systems... to miss this fact simply demonstrates that adequate research prior to the purchase of the parts is lacking. This is what happens when watercooling becomes more mainstream. Parts availability becomes easy, and folks don't bother doing their research first.
This info is WIDELY spread across ALL forums that I frequent... it is covered in every watercooling guide I've ever read, and in more or less every watercooling sections' sticky by default... it's almost the first rule of watercooling it's that old.
Ignore the terminology I use in this next sentence, it isn't meant to be insulting... it's just a suitable way of phrasing it and I can't be assed to think of a more P/C way of saying it...
Manufacturers cannot account for the idiot factor (aka net-clue-factor to coin Cathar's way of saying it). If you can't account for the idiot factor, don't build items that an idiot cannot use correctly.
To release alu blocks is milking the market. Manufacturers know there is a HIGH risk of that aluminium block getting destroyed by what I'd say would be a good 50% of the watercooling market (the chunk that don't do their research and just dive in head first). This destruction isn't covered by warranty, so another sale is milked from the equation when that customer requires a replacement. A responsible manufacturer would include a note in with every block clearly stating that an anticorrosive additive MUST be used.
You don't throw out testing data, no matter how old. At worst, you correct any invalid data as any flaws in testing technique and methodology come to light... or simply highlight on the old data that methodologies have changed and thus results may not be directly comparable. TDX and RBX are both still current blocks that are in use, and thus the presence of their data remains valid. An archive of data is needed to establish trends and curves over time. Just because old data features does not make a site old. It makes that sites information more complete than one that focuses solely on the latest and greatest. Overclockers.com will always be one of the Top10 resources for watercooling data purely BECAUSE of the age of it's content - you'll find a great deal of questions asked here daily could've been answered by a quick search of the "older" sites - overclockers.com, procooling.com etc that are now commonly disregarded when searching for info. You'll note in every thread I've replied in today, my responses all refer to "old" data, however that data is all perfectly valid and directly applicable to current products and techniques. To dismiss the old means to dismiss that which has already been learned, and thus necessitates the dredging up of dross that's been covered over and over again in the past on a daily basis... to do so is a fools game.Quote:
and what about half the D-Tek blocks in that table which are no longer in production and the Silverprop blocks which again are no longer in production. TDX and RBX again are old.
May I ask what came out of your rad. There looks to be a lot of algae in that that block too. Can’t really tell for sure the close up picture are kind of blurred. Really like to know if there was that much growth in the rad too :D
I see where you are coming from, however I'm on about the site not dibbling in the updated block scene as much as I would like to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marci
The TDX and RBX are current designs as you so rightly said, but thats because nothing new has come out of DangerDen in terms of base design for some time. Only new tops on old blocks, ala RD600 hold down plate for Maze4.
Obviously as you pointed out on OcUK forums they are churning blocks out for nVidia AIB partners and the U.S' equivilent of PC-World - still bit disapointing seeing a company such as DangerDen not being as competitive at performance as they have been in the past.
There is nothing wrong with the apogeeGTX. GAbe has assured us that the plating on it is top notch.Quote:
Originally Posted by LogAn'sRun
Gabe even went to the extreme and listed what platting process was done on it, and what grade the nickle plate is.
I dont see any other manufacture going this far for there customers. Infact most other companys will keep there anodizing, and plating secret.
I run a ApogeeGTX. I get uber load temps on my quad. How uber you ask? I am running the best. IWAKI RD-30, ApogeeGTX, PA120.3 Need i say more?
So far the apogeeGTX only had 1 Problem. Thats the dye. But a soft tooth brush, and about 5 min scrubbing will take it all off.
So dont freak out about the GTX. Its an awesome block, and it really kicks butt when BOWED.
EDIT: I typo'd lapped instead of bow.
@Marci... heres one to make your proud. :D
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_0721.jpg
mmmm... i want a PA140.3 if they ever come out now. I know its excessive, but thats what this forum is about no?
NaeKuh:
Are you using an anti-corrosive with the GTX????
So I guess my real question is if you use a GTX should you use Pentosin/Zerex additive?
Can't you use ammonia?Quote:
Originally Posted by ranker
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/sp...ids-d_151.html
It has a slightly higher heat capacity than water. It also kills life, so its perfect to prevent algae and stuff in the system.
Or are most ammonia compounds corrosive?
Umm, do I really need to explain to you why using ammonia is bad?Quote:
Originally Posted by brucevangeorge
I really have trouble believing that people no longer look at simple things like, putting in an anticorrosive when they are mixing metals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Swiftech APOGEE GTX aluminium plating "sucks" ????
OMFG :rofl: :shocked:
Ho-hum.Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkerSk
:rolleyes:
Please, do tell us how exactly it "sucks".
from an objective standpoint, why paint the bottom of the GTX anyway if it's so easy to rub off, or known to flake into the system? I'm not trying to bash, my WC knowledge is .01 and I'm just trying to learn as I go along. . . .
Ew!!!:sick:
Use Copper & Acrylic waterblock ONLY!!!:D
It boggles the mind to try and comprehend why with all the free information out there from years of watercooling experiences, how someone could/would run a system with Alu/Cu without any kind of protection whatsoever. Especially a block with Alu/Cu in DIRECT contact. "Xtreme" negligence to say the least. Also I highly doubt that this is even remotely close to the proportion of corrosion that you would see in a "properly" set up Alu/Cu setup.
Honestly I choose not to have a combination of Alu/Cu anywhere in the system as it gives me piece of mind, but if people find it neccessary (ala Swifty GTX) then obviously you need some kind of anti-corrosive or your just playing with fire, trusting that there was no mechanical or human error in the manufacturing process, or that Murphy's Law wont find a home in your shiny WB.
Naekuh..so the pics above are the paint flaking off??
Swiftech....That seems to be poor QC for $75 cpu block....why paint it if flakes off so easily
I love swiftech products I have most WC/chipset coolers form swiftech
But not happy to see the paint on the inside flaking like that....one more thing can an issue???
Do we need literally to remove the paint with a toothbrush???
Naekuh,
Good grief. Do we have to go through that ordeal again ?
OK, I've been running a Swiftech Apogee GTX in a copper based loop since it's release. I have not seen any water loop VD develop as a result of doing so. I will take the loop down in another month, open the block, take some pics and post them. Maybe we can stop :horse: this dead horse after that. It's not brain surgery guys, if you're concerned about corrosion use an additive in the loop, or don't buy the block.
My offer still stands if my loop corrodes as a result of using the GTX, I will buy everyone who told me so a beer and I will put it on gabe's tab. :p:
You know what? Yeah. The block sucks. Don't buy the block! Stay way from it.
This way, it'll always be in stock whenever I want one.
Dont get so testing..who says the block sucks..performance wise the block is very good...no doubting that...Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
I asked is the paint really flaking already to that degree..seems like it would clog components...besides sure seems the paint is poorly done if this happening
but I repeat a $75 block that is flaking its paint with so little use..seems of questionable QC
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealh
Its not paint. It is dye.
As Gabe explains, the dye was intentionally applied that way to give the appearance of an Edelbrock engine cover. I do not have an interest in American muscle cars, so I must admit I have little interest or knowledge of what an Edelbrock engine cover looks like. Whatever benefit one accrues from a water block looking like an engine cover is intangible and up to one's interpretation.
For me personally, I could not care if my water block looks like canine turd. As long as its the best performing.
As Gabe has explained, the dye does nothing to clog components, not to mention blocks with impingement jets that clog are so.... sooo... last year ? Sorry, I own a lot of Storm blocks myself.. all of them in a shoe box in the closet. Neither the FuZion nor the GTX clog, and neither do the MCW60 or the FuZion GTX. Its not that the dye clogs blocks or that the dye has any effect whatsoever on anything.
For those who don't focus on the dye, then there are the outcries about the aluminum ad nauseum.
Both D-tek and Swiftech are at the top of the industry. You can choose not to buy Swiftech, but you would be foolish then not to buy D-Tek. The bottom line is that the GTX is one of the two best, if not the best, performing cpu blocks at any price.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. For the sake of everyone's sanity, PLEASE don't buy it.
I'm not testy. You have consumer choices. Either you buy it and shut up, or you don't buy it and shut up. Thank you.
I am editing for my comments..they were unduly harshQuote:
Originally Posted by IanY
my apologies IanY
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealh
miss Creidiki & Maxxracer myself....:dammit: :shrug: