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Thread: Unintentional phase change.

  1. #1
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    Unintentional phase change.

    I just had to post this. I was debating on calling the thead "why you shouldn't torch solder in your house"

    Anyway I was fixing a pinhole leak in my phase change system with a propane torch and solder. (I know I am breaking a cardinal rule here with using solder, but I know for a fact that it will hold.) As I took the torch valve off the tank, it ruptured out through the neck, filling my room with a visable cloud of propane gas. Five seconds later it was out my front door and everyone was warned not to make a spark.




    I probably could squeeze a little cash out of Bernzomatic for this one, but I'm just going to let it go.

  2. #2
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    Commoooon... Free cash! Lawsuit!
    No seriously, dont, probably your fault eh.


    If you have a cooling question or concern feel free to contact me.

  3. #3
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    So, you lit the escaping gas whilst outside, not to mention with the cylinderin hand. And you think that you could convince anyone that you aren't a ing moron? Go ahead, go shake your fists at Bernzomatic. I'll make sure they get a good view at that last incriminating picture. With that, they'll be able to convince anyone that you were trying to fit the valve on hastily, or that it was the wrong one. Who knows, who cares.

    You're breaking another cardinal rule by being stupid enough to light the gas coming out of the bottle. Lucky you still have your hands... let alone your arms...

    And don't tell me it ignited itself.
    Regards, Stew.....

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  4. #4
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    Sure, it looks dangerous, but propane isn't self ignighting (I don't think that's the correct term) and because the tank was filled with it, it can't burn without oxygen.
    For those of you about to post:

  5. #5
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    Um i agree with craig, there is no back fire protection on a normaly torch head for a propane bottle. So thats the same thing essentialy

  6. #6
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    We're a bunch of chemists here aren't we?

    If the gas is escaping, then that is all it needs to explode. Propane tanks have exploded when exposed to an ingnition source and with a leak present. The tank holds alot of pressure, and no oxygen. The tiny leak allowed the explosion to occur when the vapors ignited.

    So it requires no oxygen presence inside the bottle, it gets that when it explodes.

    They build flashback arrestors just for this purpose.

    By the way, for all of you to be right about "No oxygen inside means no blow"

    Then maybe you should look up the recent fire at a Prax Air plant. Actually it was an explosion... no a melee of explosions. The cylinders just kept blowing up when exposed to the heat. No oxygen inside, sorry.

    Edit: Go, argue that in a court of law and be embarrassed. It'll be posted in the news papers with headlines reading, "Why computer geeks and nerds should remain computer geeks and nerds, and stop trying to be chemists."

    Last edited by Stewie007; 08-21-2005 at 08:17 PM.
    Regards, Stew.....

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  7. #7
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    I braze in my kitchen, but I use Mapp, and I dont take the torch head off the bottle...Why did you do that anyways?

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    Looks like I didn't cut all of my hand out of the picture.

    Stewie, I would love to meet you face to face. Let me explain something to you. If propane could ignite in the bottle, it woiuld do so when you fire up a torch. Propane tanks that explode allways do so because external heat sources raise the internal pressure to the burst point. Do you rant like this to people in person? Did I say I was going to sue?

    Btw, you are talking to someone who has ripped steel apart with windex, and I still have all my fingers. I know what the hell I'm doing.

    @stockhatch, The valve on the torch has a slow leak and will drain a bottle in about a month.

  9. #9
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    Tis story sound fishy to me, the tank leaked so bad it filled your room with a visable cloud, so in the 5 seconds it took you to run it outside you had time to grab a striker and a camera, now thats thinking on the run!!!

  10. #10
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    LOL! True walt. Even so, nobody got hurt and fire always looks cool regardless of the danger Lets just call this a friendly reminder to be careful when working with flammable gasses and not make it a <b>flamefest</b> Haha, I kill me!

  11. #11
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    so in the 5 seconds it took you to run it outside you had time to grab a striker and a camera, now thats thinking on the run!!!
    When the tank cooled down, the flow rate dropped off considerably. It continued to spew for about five minutes. After it was outside and the house was in the process of being vented, I got my camera.

    Edit: @ Stockhatch, lol flamefest. Pun intended?
    Last edited by labrat23; 08-21-2005 at 10:10 PM.

  12. #12
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    Yay, let's start a fight in every thread.
    Level 80 UD Death Knight on Murmur (Beta)

  13. #13
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    Fire!
    New quote - "You are talking to someone who has ripped steel apart with windex, and I still have all my fingers."
    Last edited by eBoy0; 08-21-2005 at 11:32 PM.

  14. #14
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    Out of everyone here who is arguing. Who has actually read the MSDS for Propane??

  15. #15
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    no one is aurguing, but yes I have read that and been preaching safety ever since I became a member.One of the first thigs I harped about is guys keeping & using gases in living spaces.The problem is nobody relizes how quickly a accident happens when not following proper procedures.

  16. #16
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    I'm just disappointed that in all that time, and with all that frosty goodness spewing out, you didn't think to strap it to a cpu and run off a few quick superpi runs

    Seriously though, if you're thinking of doing that sort of work in your own home, at least do it in the Kitchen, where the ceiling is required to have fire resistant tiles or plasterboard, and shut the doors to the rest of the house to prevent the fumes getting out, and ensure ventilation to the outside.

    A new tank of Propane is required to be filled to no more than 80% of it's capacity for a reason. I believe that allows it to expand relative to a temperature change of 30-40 degrees or more before it will start to put critical pressure on the container (long time since I took the course, am likely off in the numbers) so the likelyhood of a part used container reaching that critical stage is very slim unless you're stupid enough to throw it into a fire.

    What he's done lighting it outside isn't what you'd call safe, but isn't bad enough to cause serious explosion and risk under normal circumstances.

    Wzrdal is right though, best way to safely use anything flammable is to keep it out of the house and in the Garage/Shed with adequate ventilation so if the unforseen happens to happen, you still have a home to go to.

    On another note though, at least Propane is easy for you guys over there to get. In the UK Most blowtorches use Butane/Isobutane, and you can hardly light your cigarette let alone braze anything with it. I finally got a mapp kit so I didn't have to drag out the big bottles every time I wanted to do something here at home. (in the shed, btw ) Getting propane isn't complicated here, it's just a PITA

    Gray
    Last edited by Gray Mole; 08-22-2005 at 01:18 PM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  17. #17
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    If the gas is escaping, then that is all it needs to explode. Propane tanks have exploded when exposed to an ingnition source and with a leak present. The tank holds alot of pressure, and no oxygen. The tiny leak allowed the explosion to occur when the vapors ignited.

    So it requires no oxygen presence inside the bottle, it gets that when it explodes.

    They build flashback arrestors just for this purpose.
    The tank doesn't explode, the leaking gas around it explodes, ruptures the tank, and then the escaping gas fuels further combustion.

    Ever take apart a propane torch? Its just a valve feeding into a burner tip. Theres nothing to prevent the flame from feeding back into the tank. They don't explode because you can't oxidize a gas above its UEL.

    http://www.tc.gc.ca/canutec/en/artic...s/confined.htm

    By the way, for all of you to be right about "No oxygen inside means no blow"

    Then maybe you should look up the recent fire at a Prax Air plant. Actually it was an explosion... no a melee of explosions. The cylinders just kept blowing up when exposed to the heat. No oxygen inside, sorry.
    Sorry, but its your argument, not mine. If you want to make the point, do your own research.

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    Lighting it on fire probally wasn't the best thing to do. But, it wasn't the wose thing either. Tell me who here has never taken a can of aerosol can and sprayed it against a lighter flame at one point in their life?

    At least he did a responsible thing by getting it outside as quickly as possible. And also alerted other people of the situation.

    Where I work we use propane powered fork lifts. Sometimes we get a tank with a bad valve or someone doesn't hook the connector up properly. You can smell the propane from across the plant as the fork lift is driving around. And I mean you can REALLY smell it.

    Everything has an inherent danger whether we realize it or not. Has anyone here ever seen what a cigarette light can do to a human body? I have. I used to go to school with a guy that had one explode in his hand. It was a hot day, he was holding it and for some reason it blew. It severly burt and damaged his hand. Plus, it severly burnt his chest and side. It was third degree burns. Numerous skin grafts had to be done.

  19. #19
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    damn stewie put the tampon back in........
    nice flame there labrat. Glad to see no on was hurt

  20. #20
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    No I don't rant like this in person. Sure I went a little overboard, for that I'm sorry. But what you must realize is that when you pull stunts like that you put yourself and others in danger. That fire could have burned back, causing a spike in heat, rupture the broken valve more and create the neccessary mix for an explosion. I don't care what you think you know. People 100 times more experienced than you have blown themselves up in far more foolish ways.

    I hardly think it requires discussion of feminine hygene products and compliments of flames. Its pretty obvious that whatever you're talking about with that windex has to do with pyro-technics. And probably just as foolish... You obviously know what you're doin, eh?
    Regards, Stew.....

    - This message brought to you by Frank Lee E. Snutz

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by \/icious
    damn stewie put the tampon back in........


    OMFG!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH

    Ok OK...hahaha

    IM sorry but THAT is getting siged!
    Stew u know i love ya M8 but that was fuxing funny,ohh and Labrat..that was retarded.......

  22. #22
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    laughing at my expense eh? When I get yer return address..!!!!@#@$@#$@#

    ehehehe. Seriously though, what I said sticks, I ain't taking that back. But I guess I need to get... Un-riled. I sometimes get over stressed, or crazy from work that it spills over elsewhere. I rant about the bloody facility for a living, its a habit now.
    Regards, Stew.....

    - This message brought to you by Frank Lee E. Snutz

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie007
    *snip*
    Then maybe you should look up the recent fire at a Prax Air plant. Actually it was an explosion... no a melee of explosions. The cylinders just kept blowing up when exposed to the heat. No oxygen inside, sorry.
    Never heard of it I work a few blocks away and that was one helluva show. BTW it's Praxair. I'm glad I got to see that since I had emergency surgery on July 4th, though I'm sure the fireworks would have seemed rather dull compared to that.
    /offtopic

    Cool flames, maybe not the safest thing though.

  24. #24
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    Yeah I know, Praxair, we get our gas from them... I just constantly mix that up
    Regards, Stew.....

    - This message brought to you by Frank Lee E. Snutz

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