R590 is the X1800GTO, not a GDDR4 equipped X1900.

[einCe]

im a little confused here, this will be a CONFIRMED r580 core? if it is i will definatley be buying one, and opposing the article i hope its like the last batch of gto's from x850 so we can unlock em to full x1900xt's. well find a way ;D in either case i will be saying farewell to my x850 crossfire and picking one of those up

[Ubermann]

Might be clever of ATI to not bring any more high end until R600.
But it seems stupid of Nvidia to bring G71 and the a few month later G80.

[DilTech]

The G71 is probably just to offset the R580.

[Shadowmage]

R590 is a confirmed revision of R580, on 80nm low-k process.

[onethreehill]

Radeon X1800GTO could be 12 pipes based on the R520 256MB GDDR3. Approximately 6,605 3DMark05

Radeon X1900XL 256MB $499 Approx. 9,500 3DMark05
Radeon X1800XT 512MB $449
Radeon X1800XT 256MB $399
Radeon X1800XL 256MB $329

http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=555249

[Cooper]

X1900XL only $50 less then full specs XT
For this price XL should have exact R580 core. Or nobody will take it (for $499 that is)

[turtle]

Radeon X1800GTO could be 12 pipes based on the R520 256MB GDDR3. Approximately 6,605 3DMark05

Radeon X1900XL 256MB $499 Approx. 9,500 3DMark05
Radeon X1800XT 512MB $449
Radeon X1800XT 256MB $399
Radeon X1800XL 256MB $329

http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=555249

This is of course MSRP. They also place the x1900xt and xtx at $549 and $649 respectively, which is much higher than prices you can actually find.

I bet it's more like this:

x1900xt: $450
x1900xl: <$400 (7900gt counterpart, probably IS complete r580 core with slower ram...ala x1900AIW)
x1800xt: $350
x1800xl: <$300
X1800GTO: $200-250 (7600gt counterpart, I agree prolly 12-1-1-1)

Which makes a pretty interesting line-up...Finally. Should be interesting on how they actually compete with their green counterparts in March/April. I'm especially intrigued by the GTO vs 7600gt. Both seem to be 12-1-1-1, but I wonder if the GTO will keep a higher VS count than the 7600gt.

speculation=turtle

I also understood 80nm x1300's coming in March, but what's happening in May (the perfect half-way point between R580 and R600...)? Is it being sampled in March, released in May? If so, can't one argue that this might be a whole product-line switch coming, or at least an 80nm x1700 (R535) in the same timeframe...? Besides that, doesn't anyone else notice that eery gap at the >$500 spot?

/speculation

Regardless, that's a whole messload of products.

[perkam]

First post edited with new info.

Perkam

[turtle]

It's probably not just me that thinks this really isn't the R590 on any of those products, and was probably just supposed to be a headline grabber from Dailytech (Whom is starting to do that more than The INQ.). Anyone noticed when you read Daily tech stories...They hook with the headline, and then it's either old information, or something completely unrelated? I think now is one of those times, even if it was an honest mistake or assumption.

X1900xl is prolly R580 core, and x1800gto are probably chips that were supposed to be X1800 PROs (R560...or something), but never released because of disappointing performance for where they were supposed to be priced (kinda like x1600).

No doubt we'll prolly see X1800GTO2's with old R520 cores...or even x1900gto/2's with R580 cores if they have enough left over after producing the x19xl...which is perhaps possible if they switch to 80nm and want to clear 90nm stock...or perhaps the x1900xl is a way to clear x1900 stock at a greater margin...Who knows.

I guess we'll have to wait a couple/few months on seeing if those materialize though...

[DilTech]

x1900xt: $450
x1900xl: <$400 (7900gt counterpart, probably IS complete r580 core with slower ram...ala x1900AIW)
x1800xt: $350
x1800xl: <$300
X1800GTO: $200-250 (7600gt counterpart, I agree prolly 12-1-1-1)

X1900xt - 500 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...&Go.x=0&Go.y=0)
X1900xl - $400-$450(Probably a R590 or R580 with 36 shaders)
X1800xt: $400 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...&Go.x=0&Go.y=0)(DISCONTINUED)
X1800xl: $300 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...&Go.x=0&Go.y=0)(DISCONTINUED)

The X1800GTO will probably be about $275-300, but it won't be the counterpart to the 7600GT like you think. The X1700XT(R560 IIRC) will be what faces off with the 7600gt AFAIK. As for what the X1800GTO will be doing, it's REPLACING the x1800xl, meaning it's going to square off with the 7800gt, with the X1900XL squaring off with the 7900GT. Only reason ATi hasn't released their x1900XL is because they're waiting to see the competition first.

You see, ATi has quit producing R520 chips, the last batch was made in december. This is why you see such low prices and big discounts everywhere on R520 based cards. Therefore, the X1800XT and X1800XL can be expected to be cut off. Note there's only 3 models to pick from on the x1800xl at newegg now, there WAS about 10 last year. Notice, even the sapphire brand card is gone from both the x1800xl AND xt, which was the most popular... That's because it's sold out for good there.

Once a store sells out of R520's now it's officially permanent. Basically unlike with the X800 series, there won't BE left-over R520 cores. Maybe R580, but definitely not R520. ATi didn't produce enough of them to have left overs.

[turtle]

Good points Diltech...But here's why I disagree:

I chose what I think pricing will be based on where they are now, where online sites usually price compared to MSRP (usually about 85% within a few weeks of release), and the fact where new products will be in the foodchain making some like x1800xl/xt depreciate (while even if discontinued are still available). Also, upon release of G71 and these products, x1900xt's may lose a few bucks off their price as well...especially with the amount of time they've been around...I think they've stockpiled enough to where the supply/demand will bring price down.

AFAIK the last ORDER for R520's was placed in December, and orders usually take 3 months (which agreed is very imminant) to fill as they do not magically appear (According to what i've read). That means availability at least through March/April. True enough, it's dead either way and is being phased out rapidly, but it IS still on the pricemap comparison thinger from ATi, so they expect it to be around for at least a bit. It will still be available for a little while regardless, and probably at some kind of discount compared to x1900 products. True enough x1800xl/xt may eat the whole supply up defunking a possibility of a X1800GTO2, which is a long freaking name for a product.

The GTO replacing the x1800xl is a pretty nasty choice if you ask me, altough I agree you're right in that respect, or at least be a middleground between the 7600gt and 7800gt (or x1700 and x1800xl). It could be better than the 7600gt, but the 7800gt is kind of pushing it, especially if it's 12ps and 6vs (as I think it will be, remarked R520 PROs). Same goes comparitively speaking to the x1700 and x1800xl. It'll probably land between the two GT's (and x1700 and x1800xl), which is where I think it will be priced. MSRP is $249-279 depending on where you look for info, so I figure if it's readily available it'll be around ~$225 soon enough. X1700 will probably be $50-75 less in reality (although with a $200 or so msrp), and probably another product noone will care about with the high-end products in the <$300 market, and the 7600gt for a similarish price. Of course, if that's something crazy like 8/24 instead of just 4/12 with a better mem setup, that could change too.

About the 1900xl, It's 16/48/8. GTO is unknown, but it's priced below x1800xl, scores between x1600xt and x1800xl, and x1800GTO not x1900GTO, so it makes one believe 12-1-1-1.

I imagine we'll find out full specs of those two products pretty quick here though, and that should tell the story.

EDIT: Here's PCPOP reporting X1900XL is 16/48/8, as if the 3dmark score didn't tell us that already (Should've seen that and figured it out...duh) while X1800GTO specs are unknown. It's pricing below the x1800XL and 3dmark scores makes me believe 12-1-1-1 still though...and yes, I know they list the AIWx1900 spec wrong, they are 500/480 (2.0ns GDDR3), which is what I expect the x1900xl to be:

http://www.pcpop.com/doc/0/129/129352.shtml

Both should be good price/performance cards for their relative price points.

Ok, i'm done editting this post now. :P

[onethreehill]

Production of R520 have stopped but ATI have a large inventory left. They are reducing prices on them and X1800GTO will be disabled/defective R520

[ahmad]

Production of R520 have stopped but ATI have a large inventory left. They are reducing prices on them and X1800GTO will be disabled/defective R520

I strongly doubt that. I can say I am almost 98% sure that the x1800GTO will be an 80nm r580. ATI has stopped production of r520 in december and I strongly doubt they have anywhere near enough r520s left to release an entire new line of cards.

I like to look at the r520 as the card ATI had so much trouble with that they don't want to deal with it

[turtle]

I like to look at it as the chips they probably have stockpiled (r520 pros/le), but didn't release because people would buy them instead of R520 xt/xl's, which they NEEDED to make money back on because of their known short-life span with the R580 so imminant after it's release. That product was even shown on the roadmap, yet never materialzed.

Remember how X800xl's strangely say x800pro on the die? I'm not a betting man, although my cookies are the bomb, but i'm fairly sure you're going to see x1800pro/le on these GTO chips. They may be disabled R520's, although I think they were made to be 12-1-1-1 from the start. I would imagine that 8/24 is the only other option that would yield similar performance, which I suppose is possible, but i'd think the pixel extra pixel shaders would bump up the performance in 05. I'd think, although I could be wrong, that 12/36 would be a better score that 6600 as well, by a substantial margin. Look at the jump from 16/16 to 16/48 on the XL's, which most likely have a similar clockspeed.

look at the 3dmark05 score:

x1900xt: 10858
x1900xl: ~9500 (meaning 94**)
x1800xt: 9214
x1800xl: 7316
x1800gto: 6605
x1600xt: 5108
x1800pro: 3902

It scores somewher inbetween 4/12 and 16/16, but much closer to 16/16. So going by pipeline setup only 12/12 and 8/24 seem logical.

I think the biggest hint that makes me draw my conclusion is the original anandtech preview which had these products on there:

x1800pro 16 pipes, 500/500 256mb GDDR3 (original MSRP $449) - This obviously became x1800xl
x1800le: 12pipes, 450/450 256mb GDDR3 (original MSRP $349)

Anyone see LE's? I didn't.

[DilTech]

http://www.kelkoo.se/b/a/ss_connect3...56mb_ddr3.html

Scroll down, the X1800LE is on the list. Haven't checked the card itself, just did a quick google search.

Either way, you're probably right, it probably is 8/24, not 12/36.

As for 12-1-1-1, I doubt it. Going to a 256bit memory bus from a 128bit would've netted a bit more points in 05.

[Shadowmage]

HKEPC says that X1800GTO is a 12 pipelined R520. We shall see whether HKEPC is more dependable than Anandtech for upcoming information very soon, it looks like.


New info on X1800GTO from TheInq:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29800

X1800GTO is R520 core, 12 pipes, running at 500/1000, targeting the 7600GT.

Both TheInq and HKEPC have refuted Anandtech's claims.

[ahmad]

New info on X1800GTO from TheInq:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29800

X1800GTO is R520 core, 12 pipes, running at 500/1000, targeting the 7600GT.

Both TheInq and HKEPC have refuted Anandtech's claims.

Where does it say r520?

[Nedjo]

R590 is a confirmed revision of R580, on 80nm low-k process.

That's true!!
X1800GTO is R520 /w 12 shader pipes!

[Starscream]

stupid question:


correct me if im wrong (dont know much abose crossfire).
but if i had a 12 pipes R20 core card i would b able to run it in crossfire with a X1800XT mastercard rite?

then if this X1800GTo isnt r520 based can i still run it in crossfire with a R520 core mastercard?

[perkam]

stupid question:


correct me if im wrong (dont know much abose crossfire).
but if i had a 12 pipes R20 core card i would b able to run it in crossfire with a X1800XT mastercard rite?

then if this X1800GTo isnt r520 based can i still run it in crossfire with a R520 core mastercard?

With X1800 CF most likely yea...but it will need a driver update...

Perkam

[DilTech]

Yeah starscream, if it's R520 based then you should be able to. However, keep in mind that it'll drop the master card down to a 12 piped card as well.

For that price, you'd be better off with a R580.

Either way, Dailytech is quickly becoming another Inquirer.

[perkam]

Indeed...an X1900XL should surpass both the X1800XT and the 7800GTX 256MB at a price just above the current X1800XL.

Perkam

[Shadowmage]

Where does it say r520?

It is implied in the article, when it is compared to the X1800XL.

---

Yeah, Dailytech accuracy has been even lower than TheInq accuracy.

----

EDIT: Proof of X1800GTO = R520 core:

http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=555249

X1800GTO將會是12條流水線基於R520架構的產品

This quote states that X1800GTO is a 12-piped version of the R520 core.

[Starscream]

ow sorry forgot to mention something in my previous post.

i asked this cause atm people are arguing about if the X1800GTO is r520 or r580.

if it were r580 you wouldnt b able to use it in crossfire with a X1800mastercard.
And ATi said you can use the X1800master card in crossfire mode with every card from the X1800 line up.
so that should include this new GTO.

if it were a R580 core 12 pipe card or whatever it would carry the name X1900 this to make it easier for normal people to figure out what master card to get for this card if wanted to eb used inc rossfire.

[ahmad]

EDIT: Proof of X1800GTO = R520 core:

http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=555249

This quote states that X1800GTO is a 12-piped version of the R520 core.

Are you trying to tell me that x1800 GTO then some gibberish then the number "12" then some more gibberish then r520 means that the GTO is going to be an r520?