Fools Gold: What is the truth behind the nForce4/AMD chipset?

[rostrow]

The real problem that needs to be addressed, for individuals trying to
decide on a platform, is which motherboard chipsets produce reliable
systems. I think almost everyone would agree that the dual core AMD cpu's
are superior to the dual core Intel Pentium D's. But how do the
corresponding chipsets, nForce4/Ultra/SLI/PRO and Intel 945P/955X, perform?

All one needs to do is browse the nVidia forums, http://forums.nvidia.com,
to find many alleged problems with the nForce4/AMD chipsets. The following
points are brought into focus:

1. nVidia is completely silent in responding to end user complaints about
defects.
2. The MAC Ethernet controller has issues (NAM, network access
manager/firewall; ACTIVE ARMOR, hardware acceleration).
3. The IDE/SATA controller has issues (shares irq with NAM; data loss).
4. After infrequent new bios releases the problems still exist.
5. It is now more likely that these problems are unfixable hardware bugs.

One reviewer, who builds custom systems, refuses to supply any nForce4
systems to his customers for fear of constant complaints.

How do you guys build reliable nForce4 systems? Can you be
specific about the following points:

A. What nVidia nForce4 drivers do you actually install?
B. What version of the drivers do you use?
C. What order do you load the drivers?
D. What steps do you take to neutralize the remaining problems with
networking and hard disks?
E. Are the systems reliable enough to use in a professional environment?
F. What feedback do you get from nVidia about when to expect solutions?

thanks,
Ron

[Rezag1000]

Well, I think nforce 4 has been getting a bad rep because of the DFI issues with nf4. These issues are related to the board, not the chipset. AS far as I know, nf4 is one of the best chipsets ever made.

[ls7corvete]

NF4 boards are popular with the overclocking crowd, why do you want them in a professional enviroment?

[NotoriousMike]

Whatever it is, it cant be too bad cuase they have some workstation and server boards useing a derivitive of it.

[ChongL]

best overclocking boards ever...lots of features and great performance...thats the bottom line and the truth

[adz]

i have all the latest drivers installed and i think it works wonderfully.. it's a great chip

[Wiggy McShades]

well my ide 1 chanel doesnt work anymore but thats not cripilling or making it unusuable if that even has anything to do with a bad chipset.

[dnottis]

well my ide 1 chanel doesnt work anymore but thats not cripilling or making it unusuable if that even has anything to do with a bad chipset.

Well that would fall under defective then...personally I'd be pissed if anything on the board stopped working.

[amrgb]

Personally I think that the IDE performance is bad to say the least. Whenever the DVD-RW is accessing a DVD/CD, everything I'm doing in the hard drive sharing the cannel with it stops.

Even my old A7V133 could do better than my NF4. But besides that everything is ok (maybe because I don't use LAN).

[wickedld9]

Personally I think that the IDE performance is bad to say the least. Whenever the DVD-RW is accessing a DVD/CD, everything I'm doing in the hard drive sharing the cannel with it stops.

Even my old A7V133 could do better than my NF4. But besides that everything is ok (maybe because I don't use LAN).

Try turning on the imapi service within Windows and see if that helps. (control panel>administrative tools>services>imapi cd-burning com service) Start the service and then test. If it works out well set the startup type to auto.

[The Mofo]

Welp, whomever is building these troublesome systems with Nforce 4 chipsets need to look no further than Dell and Emachines for their future computers. Your box is only as good as the knowledge behind building one.

[turtle]

Without trying to sound like a fanboy, which I suppose I am (I was of ABIT when the Wu was there for the nf7...and I am now of DFI for the same reason), I imagine we've all had our share of problems with the DFI nf4 derivatives, but there truely is nothing comparible in terms of options, features, and performance when you finally get the thing working right...Which eventually most people have. You have to remember some of the stuff on the DFI's were ground-breaking and hadn't been done before they were released, like the 4v jumper to get up to 4v in the bios without mods (ie not having to set your pots to get over 3.3v)...not to mention that nice little option of making the ultra-d a sli board.

That being said, other boards have their quarks too, like the MSI's fubar'd SLI layout, HTT problems on some boards, ect.

Even with all it's issues, bios revisions, and quarks, i'd still say it's the best board i've owned feature-wise and performance-wise. Stability wise it's been hit and miss at times, but it's been working well for me for some time. Innovation's a , and i'm willing to deal with growing pains for new tech.

I dig the chipset. With things that it's brought to the table like SLI for peeps who want it, one of the first to support pci-e, sata2, the multi-board server options, ect. Surely things will surpass it, like most likely ATi's chipset, but considering the time frame it came out and stuff it incorporated before most anyone else and what they've done and are doing to tighten it up, I don't think anyone can really complain unless they're willing to say they could have gone without all the positives and firsts it brought to the table over six months ago. Not just the DFI boards, but the NF4 platform in general. It's still a good chunk better than VIA and such's alternatives.

[bigjohns97]

The real problem that needs to be addressed, for individuals trying to
decide on a platform, is which motherboard chipsets produce reliable
systems. I think almost everyone would agree that the dual core AMD cpu's
are superior to the dual core Intel Pentium D's. But how do the
corresponding chipsets, nForce4/Ultra/SLI/PRO and Intel 945P/955X, perform?

All one needs to do is browse the nVidia forums, http://forums.nvidia.com,
to find many alleged problems with the nForce4/AMD chipsets. The following
points are brought into focus:

1. nVidia is completely silent in responding to end user complaints about
defects.
2. The MAC Ethernet controller has issues (NAM, network access
manager/firewall; ACTIVE ARMOR, hardware acceleration).
3. The IDE/SATA controller has issues (shares irq with NAM; data loss).
4. After infrequent new bios releases the problems still exist.
5. It is now more likely that these problems are unfixable hardware bugs.

One reviewer, who builds custom systems, refuses to supply any nForce4
systems to his customers for fear of constant complaints.

How do you guys build reliable nForce4 systems? Can you be
specific about the following points:

A. What nVidia nForce4 drivers do you actually install?
B. What version of the drivers do you use?
C. What order do you load the drivers?
D. What steps do you take to neutralize the remaining problems with
networking and hard disks?
E. Are the systems reliable enough to use in a professional environment?
F. What feedback do you get from nVidia about when to expect solutions?

thanks,
Ron

A. The newest from the website at the time of install, more importantly i only install with winxp w/sp2 intergrated.
B. See A. ?
C. Load Nvidia motherboard drivers and then whatever else next.
D. Again i have never experienced any problems with nvidia's ide driver, but then again i don't bechmark my hard drives they aren't that fast to begin with, but my friends raptor loads bf2 within 1 minute.
E. this question is very subjective considering i work in IT and everyplace and every OEM i have ever used has always had one problem/defect/design issue. Also take in mind that these motherboards are the ones that reach extremely high clocks and extremely cold tempatures and high volts. Considering all this i would say they are more reliable.
F. Again no problems no solutions.

nforce 2 400 ultra and nforce 4 ultra are some of the best motherboards i have ever used, right up there with intel's boards and maybe even a little better since nvida definatly pushes the envelope more than intel with their imagination (SLI, Soundstorm).

[HARDCORECLOCKER]

Hm - first board was DOA - second is running fine. Had some problems with my BIOS chips after switching the 5-V-jumper but now it is clear.

Had a cold boot issue with my vid card but it also has gone with the newer BIOS.

So all in all I can say the NF4 chipset is a nice one, at least on my board.

[MaxxxRacer]

I love my nf4 DFI board... big improvement over the nf3 imo...

as far as im concerned its the best overclocking chipset to ever exist.. but who am i to judge such things.

[flexy]

A. What nVidia nForce4 drivers do you actually install?
B. What version of the drivers do you use?
C. What order do you load the drivers?
D. What steps do you take to neutralize the remaining problems with
networking and hard disks?
E. Are the systems reliable enough to use in a professional environment?
F. What feedback do you get from nVidia about when to expect solutions?

--> NV drivers
6.53 - BUT NOT the s/w IDE drivers.
I do NOT use any features like NV firewall or Active Armor.
I use a linksys router.

I do NOT have problems w/ the nvidia drivers EXCEPT a minor problem with the IDE driver (which i do NOT use).
The "problem" is merely an entry in event viewer regarding a paging operation on "D".

-->
There is not really a problem with the LAN - not here, never was.
Although there WAS a problem (ie. uses MORE resources than NV LAN) with the Marvell Gigabit LAN. But i dont use it. No probs with NV lan.

-->
Reliability ????

NOT in MY case...my system is NOT very realiable. (WHat a huge difference to the XP 1900 system i had before).
BUT THEN i overclock my whole system totally on the edge.

If i would want to make a statement about NF4 reliability i would run everything at STOCK of course...and then i could tell you about how reliable it is.
I do not THINK i would have problems with realiability and uptime (ie. no BSODS etc.) if everything is at stock.

--> Also, i think (your ?) paranoia is a bit too far-fetched. I heard the same before about VIA chipsets, or Intel people claim things like "AMD == unreliable"...and VICE VERSA. That's all bunk.

Problem is always on the human side. A well kept system (NOT overclocked up to the wazoo like 90% of users here on the forum )should be as reliable as any other system.

[flexy]

Welp, whomever is building these troublesome systems with Nforce 4 chipsets need to look no further than Dell and Emachines for their future computers. Your box is only as good as the knowledge behind building one.

The term "troublesome systems based on NF4"....cough cough.

Dells are NOT troublesome because they do not have ANY bios-features and tweaking options.

I chose the "freedom" to get a dfi w/ all the options and ways to tweak - i am SURE that 95% of people claiming "troublesome NF4" are the same people who NEVER in their life had something to do with tweaking, ram-timings, overclocking etc...and NOW got a NF4 (maybe dfi) and blindly tweak around and try their first steps in overclocking...and then scream "the system is unreliable" !

I (for my part) know that MY system is somehwhat unreliable (in terms of i STILL want to see hours and hours of OCCT stability and no BSOD for a month or so).....but then i know WHY. As said if i wanted realibaility i would run everything at stock and NEVER tweak - but THEN i could as well get a Dell which would be kind of boring

Edit/Add:

BETA bios, BETA drivers, gfxcard overclocked, memory totally overclocked, CPU overclocked, each and any bios setting as far maxed out and running over specs as far as possible. More fun that a Dell

[MUCHO]

The only problem I am having is this -

With the Nforce drivers from the CD I can install the Audigy2 drivers from the CD but trying to use the web updated Audigy 2 drivers gives me bluescreen

OR

I use the latest Nforce drivers from the web and the latest audigy2 drivers from the web work but trying to install the CD drivers with the supporting software gives me a blue screen.

So - I'm planning to just use the CD/CD combo cause I need the software that comes with it.

Unless anyone has any bright ideas?

[dinos22]

whatha dude......i've been on 3xdifferent S939 platforms (Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe, DFI nF4 Ultra-D, Abit AN8 Ultra) already in the last 6 months....what are you going on about...this is the first time i'm hearing about any of these issues.....maybe you had too many espresso's or something

[IvanAndreevich]

A. What nVidia nForce4 drivers do you actually install?
All
B. What version of the drivers do you use?
Whichever, they all work
C. What order do you load the drivers?
Chipset first then everything else
D. What steps do you take to neutralize the remaining problems with
networking and hard disks?
I don't have any
E. Are the systems reliable enough to use in a professional environment?
If it's 24 hours prime stable then it is. Obviously it is at stock
F. What feedback do you get from nVidia about when to expect solutions?
Solution to what? Sounds like baloney :p

[The Mofo]

The term "troublesome systems based on NF4"....cough cough.

Dells are NOT troublesome because they do not have ANY bios-features and tweaking options.

I chose the "freedom" to get a dfi w/ all the options and ways to tweak - i am SURE that 95% of people claiming "troublesome NF4" are the same people who NEVER in their life had something to do with tweaking, ram-timings, overclocking etc...and NOW got a NF4 (maybe dfi) and blindly tweak around and try their first steps in overclocking...and then scream "the system is unreliable" !

I (for my part) know that MY system is somehwhat unreliable (in terms of i STILL want to see hours and hours of OCCT stability and no BSOD for a month or so).....but then i know WHY. As said if i wanted realibaility i would run everything at stock and NEVER tweak - but THEN i could as well get a Dell which would be kind of boring

Edit/Add:

BETA bios, BETA drivers, gfxcard overclocked, memory totally overclocked, CPU overclocked, each and any bios setting as far maxed out and running over specs as far as possible. More fun that a Dell

Re-read what i wrote.. This was written to the boneheads who say the chipset is troublesome. I dont have a problem with this chipset

[dinos22]

it's Paul Otellini pulling your leg guys

[Faceless Rebel]

Apparently there are people having problems with Audigy 2/ZS/4 cards and NF4. I personally haven't had a single problem.

Also NVRAID uses huge gobs of CPU cycles, it's a very inefficient software RAID implementation.

Other than that it seems to me that NF4 is a very stable and mature chipset. Certainly it's the best AMD has these days, which is either a bad thing or a good thing depending on how you look at it.

[halcyon]

It is unfortunate, that all nf4 boards suffer from PCI-E/PCI hogging issues, causing stall/slow-down conditions on high performance PCI-cards, such as pro sound cards:

http://www.rme-audio.de/english/tech...rce4_tests.htm

As such, nf4 is not really a working chipset for demanding high bandwidth PCI-card applications.

The IDE driver issues (especially on ATAPI devices like dvd/cd drives) is a disgrace that AMD should have fixed years ago (on nf2).

They still do not have it working properly and we are forced to use the MSI drivers (with some loss in performance).

[NickK]

Apparently there are people having problems with Audigy 2/ZS/4 cards and NF4. I personally haven't had a single problem.

Also NVRAID uses huge gobs of CPU cycles, it's a very inefficient software RAID implementation.

Other than that it seems to me that NF4 is a very stable and mature chipset. Certainly it's the best AMD has these days, which is either a bad thing or a good thing depending on how you look at it.

nForce brand to me has a reputation of stability and quality about it. Unlike the nVidia gfx brand after the gf3 upto the latest 7800 (which is a decent card by the looks of it).

I've had an nForce2+Barton 2500 with the Epox 8rda+, with the Abit NF7-S and now I have nForce4+X2 4400 with my DFI nF4 SLI-DR.

I've never had a problem with them.

Yes I would look into another nForce based on the current quality, cost and above all performance.

Edit - I thought I would qualify that with for my domestic needs. If this was on a customer site - I would be looking at it from a different view.