At the tail end of last week, AMD's senior manager of developer relations, Richard Huddy, told HEXUS that he believes NVIDIA is "somewhat abandoning the gaming market."
Such a sweeping statement isn't likely to go unnoticed by the green team over in Santa Clara, California, and NVIDIA's senior technical marketing manager of EMEA, Lars Weinand, has responded to AMD's remark in our very own HEXUS.community forums.
Here's what Lars had to say:
Quote:
Hi,
it's an interresting opinion from Mr. Huddy but it's definately not true that NVIDIA is abandoning the gaming market. What Mr. Huddy describes is what is commonly known as "growth". We are on the route to GPU computing since the introduction of our CUDA architecture with GeForce 8000 series. Our leadership in GPU computing allows us to adress additional markets. GeForce 8800GTX was a very popular and successful gaming card and so are our current generation GPUs. Our next generation solution will follow in that tradion: for games with full DirectX 11, 3DVision and PhysX Support as well as GPU computing with support for OpenCL, Direct Compute, Cuda C, Cuda C++ and more. We also fully support all new technologies, like GPU support for Bullet Physics engine. Bullet is running on CUDA for over a year and is using many open source GPU algorithms from our CUDA and OpenCL SDKs.
Technologies like 3D Vision and PhysX are unique features and technologies made by gamers for gamers and we're not intending to change this. Our Devtech team is working closely with game develeopers all over the world, to ensure best support and compatibility of our GPUs for the latest games. If you're interrested to hear more on how NVIDIA works with game delvelopers, please feel free to watch the latest comments from Tony Tamasi on this topic.
blogs.nvidia.com/nTersect
There is no reason to belive NVIDIA would abandon gamers. People working at NVIDIA are gamers.
Lars Weinand (NVIDIA)
"Never missing a beat, AMD's Huddy fired back in a little over 24 hours, further suggesting that NVIDIA is "moving its focus away from gaming", before concluding that "GPU leadership is presently AMD's".
Here's Huddy's retort, in full:"
Quote:
Hi Lars,
Nice to hear something positive about DirectX 11 from NVIDIA for once!
Let me respond to those sections in turn.
(1) The positive mention of DX11 is a rarity in recent communications from NVIDIA - except perhaps in their messaging that 'DirectX 11 doesn't matter'. For example I don't remember Jensen or others mentioning tessellation (they biggest of the new hardware features) from the stage at GTC. In fact if reports are to be trusted only one game was shown on stage during the whole conference - hardly what I would call treating gaming as a priority!
(2) The tech of PhysX has still yet to gain any significant traction. I note from the most recent NPD sales figures that "Batman AA" figures at 96th place in the PC charts and yet that seems to be NVIDIA's ' showcase' for PhysX. I suspect gaming physics will be better adopted when as an industry we move away from the divisive proprietary standards that Lars advocates so heavily. [I note that you mentioned CUDA no fewer than five times - more than any other technology that you chose to mention!]
(3) There's every reason to believe that NVIDIA is moving its focus away from gaming. I'll list just a few:
* Not making it a priority at GTC is the obvious one.
* Arguing against the relevance of DX11 is another.
* Arguing, as NVIDIA did, that AMD working with Codemasters to add DX11 to DiRT2 is harming gamers is another.
* NVIDIA's behaviour in locking something as trivial as antialiasing to its own hardware (in Batman Arkham Asylum) shows that NVIDIA cares much more about money then gamers.
* AMD is already working with games developers on over 20 forthcoming games which feature DX11 tech. NVIDIA has been nowhere to be seen! And we're doing that while offering the world's best support for DirectX 9, 10 and 10.1 games too!
* NVIDIA is late to deliver DirectX 11 hardware to market.
If you don't agree with my fourth bullet point above then I'd guess you'd probably argue that AMD should lock DX11 functionality to its own hardware, yes? Something we haven't done!
You talk about your purported "leadership in GPU computing" but today that's simply an empty claim.
Ask yourself these questions:
1. Whose is the world's fastest available gaming GPU?
2. Which is the first and only company selling DirectX 11 GPUs?
3. Which company sells the GPU with the highest compute power?
I think if you look at the facts you'll have to concede that GPU leadership is presently AMD's - because the answer to every one of these questions is simply "AMD".
Bulldozer can't show up fast enough either. Bulldozer better live up to THIS: Image
It will either make history or make AMD history if it doesn't. Intel's thread count is getting higher than Fugger's bed sheets!
Sorry but Hubby sounds a little childish in his remarks. I think it is time ATI stop bad mouthing the competition and do something to match the competition. Get a bloddy physics library if that is such a big issue.
im all for watching this episode of jerry springer tech edition, keep us updated on how these guys are responding to each other. (the best part is, even when they personally attach each other, the mods cant ban them)
Sorry but Hubby sounds a little childish in his remarks. I think it is time ATI stop bad mouthing the competition and do something to match the competition. Get a bloddy physics library if that is such a big issue.
Shame... Sometimes I wonder.
pff "match competition"!
If I remember correctly there's only on GPU that supports latest technology called DirectX11 and it isn't NVIDIA's... so what's there to match? AGEInvidiA propriety PhysX library?? Why would AMD support any propriety API?
Sorry but Hubby sounds a little childish in his remarks. I think it is time ATI stop bad mouthing the competition and do something to match the competition. Get a bloddy physics library if that is such a big issue.
Shame... Sometimes I wonder.
how long have you been out of the scene?
the 5870 is the best performing CARD out there in most games let alone best GPU.
and the 5850 is way ahead of the competition when it comes to price vs. performance.
the 5870 is the best performing CARD out there in most games let alone best GPU.
and the 5850 is way ahead of the competition when it comes to price vs. performance.
I myself have been out of the card scene for a while, but I would definitely like more info on the sources of this, if ATI has finally got their goods together I might just get one and check it out. Some benches would be great because the only ones ive found are of the ATI vs the Co Op
AMD should put their efforts into improving Drivers & berating TMSC instead of squinnying like nVidia stole their lunch money. nVidia should bloody well get Fermi out the door before they overtake kanye West & the afghan elections as the biggest joke going. If they really want to slag each other off I can easily arrange a special edition of Jeremy Kyle so they can whinge to their hearts content.
In short: "Less handbags, more products & support".
__________________
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When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.
Just goes to show that no matter how good of a product one company or the other might put out, it'll never be good enough for some of their competition's supporters.
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I myself have been out of the card scene for a while, but I would definitely like more info on the sources of this, if ATI has finally got their goods together I might just get one and check it out. Some benches would be great because the only ones ive found are of the ATI vs the Co Op
ATi has the fastest GPU right now so I think that's plenty.
Yes, and still ATI bad mounth a company that has "nothing" but a proprietary physics library. Why?
Quote:
If I remember correctly there's only on GPU that supports latest technology called DirectX11 and it isn't NVIDIA's... so what's there to match? AGEInvidiA propriety PhysX library?? Why would AMD support any propriety API?
And yet ATI keep on bad mouthing their competition with no DX11 support, and they and moan about Nvidia's apparent proprietary Physics library.
Meh, AMD/ATi has a lot of things in the works right now that will be a pleasant surprise for us, it just depends on when they can actually get those released.
As far as this back and forth, it does dissapoint since it isn't much better than the blatant fanboy attacks on any tech forum. While it does give a little insight to both their approaches, it really isn't anything we didn't know.
As far as AMD being a little more open about their stance/PR, I think it is a neccessary evil. People use to complain about AMD having no PR and now that they do, you complain about how they are using it. Nvidia has used some very underhanded tactics in the last few years that has gone unnoticed except to enthuisasts like us. If AMD doesn't make a comment about it and get the word out no one would know and Nvidia would keep getting away with it.
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Every genocide that was committed during the 20th century has been preceded by the disarmament of the target population. Once the government outlaws your guns your life becomes a luxury afforded to you by the state. You become a tool to benefit the state. Should you cease to benefit the state or even worse become an annoyance or even a hindrance to the state then your life becomes more trouble than it is worth.
Once the government outlaws your guns you life is forfeit. You're already dead, it's just a question of when they are going to get around to you.
Rival companies will always trashtalk and badmouth eachother. It is called marketing and has its uses. To be honest, AMD has all reason to attack nvidia for their stupidity lately. The aa thing was pathetic, same goes for the physics only working with nvidia gpu's present.
What the hell is nvidia doing?
Ironically, there are many that would refute the point about the claim of "fastest GPU in the world". If we are talking about a single GPU on a single card, then yes the HD 5870 has that in the bag but if we are talking about a single graphics CARD, the HD 5870 isn't the fastest on a regular basis...
Well, IMO Huddy's trying to take advantage to the current situation, "adding fuel to the fire". I mean:
I don't think NVIDIA is leaving the gaming market, but they are now spending lots of resources into the HPC market (probably to take a part of it before the arrival of Larrabee if that happens some day), moreover, currently the HPC market is not big enough to justify a splitting between the two markets creating completely different architectures to each one. So as a result, it's true that latest (and next) NVIDIA's hw look like is less specifically focused on gaming (and I'd say even in 3D rendering).
As Lars (roughly) says, that is (probably) a step on a process of growth, not a switching from gaming to computing markets. But that translates into a temporary situation where their current hw is not so specialized in 3D rendering and consumer markets as is AMD hw, requiring more resources to be good enough at those tasks (that's something inherent to specialization/generalization): bigger (and more expensive) chips to achieve similar results is the most obvious example.
Moreover, NVIDIA is coming late (or AMD very soon) to this new DX11 generation, and at a very bad moment (Windows 7 launch sales, holidays sales...), and has left AMD unrivaled for a few months.
I suppose Huddy is trying to take advantage of these situations to turn the usual prejudice which favours the NVIDIA brand into some credit for AMD as "the current leader in gaming market"...
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooProphetII
Sorry but Hubby sounds a little childish in his remarks. I think it is time ATI stop bad mouthing the competition and do something to match the competition. Get a bloddy physics library if that is such a big issue.
Shame... Sometimes I wonder.
Currently ATI is the one to be matched here in this market. They have the top performer, the best value at most price segments, and the most advanced support of technology standards. Granted that NVIDIA is yet to launch their new hardware, but until they do, that's the situation. And even when they do, let's see what happens. Last gen, the GeForce cards were not cost efficient enough to compete in equality with Radeons in the gamer/consumer market, and they only remained as good products for the consumer because NVIDIA cut their income to offer their products at a competitive price.
And about the physics library, think about it twice: how is it good for the gamers community that AMD make a ATI Stream based physics library, only compatible with AMD hardware, and invest money to develope and promote it? That's what NVIDIA has done with CUDA PhysX. I prefer (by a long shot) what AMD is doing: investing in OpenCL support for several physics libraries (Havok, Bullet, Pixelux DMM).
Think about Bullet: NVIDIA has supported Bullet to include CUDA support (only for NVIDIA users). AMD has supported Bullet to include OpenCL support (for every hw compatible with that standard). What kind of investment do you prefer for them to do?
I can't understand how people may be asking for exclusive features, when we are all benefited from standardization...
AMD and NVIDIA lock horns over graphics supremacy
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