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09-12-2009, 10:54 AM
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#1
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Xtreme Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Trollhattan, Sweden
Posts: 112
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Is P2 940BE IHS soldered? (Deneb)
is the heatspreader soldered or not on this chip?
and is it whorth it to remove the Ihs? im running it under water..
/Tommie
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09-12-2009, 11:01 AM
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#2
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No rest for the weary
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dark horse in R.I.
Posts: 6,361
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All phenoms I or II are soldered.
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heatware chew*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa
1) Normal ES: Available to partners and press before the product actually launches. These are usually close to retail parts, maybe one stepping/node before retails. From my experience (I've had access to AMD & Intel ES CPUs before the official launch around 8 years) normal ES CPUs are actually usually worse than retails because manufacturing process develops all the time and retails keep getting better. Every Phenom II press sample (not even marked as ES but couple weeks earlier than retail parts) I've tested so far have been worse than normal retails.
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09-12-2009, 02:38 PM
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#3
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Xtreme Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Trollhattan, Sweden
Posts: 112
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okok.. is it worth the risk removing it, or is a simple "lapping"job good enough?
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09-12-2009, 04:19 PM
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#4
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No rest for the weary
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dark horse in R.I.
Posts: 6,361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommie_lj
okok.. is it worth the risk removing it, or is a simple "lapping"job good enough?
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Up to you.....its your warranty.
Can you kill it attempting removal? Yes.
__________________
heatware chew*
AMD is Back in Black Lifes more fun at -190C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa
1) Normal ES: Available to partners and press before the product actually launches. These are usually close to retail parts, maybe one stepping/node before retails. From my experience (I've had access to AMD & Intel ES CPUs before the official launch around 8 years) normal ES CPUs are actually usually worse than retails because manufacturing process develops all the time and retails keep getting better. Every Phenom II press sample (not even marked as ES but couple weeks earlier than retail parts) I've tested so far have been worse than normal retails.
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09-12-2009, 04:37 PM
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#5
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Xtreme Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Trollhattan, Sweden
Posts: 112
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the warranty issue is not concerning me, i just want to know if there will be a significant drop in temperature.. and if it is a big difference between a nicely lapped one, and cooling the die directly..
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09-12-2009, 07:08 PM
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#6
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No rest for the weary
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dark horse in R.I.
Posts: 6,361
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For normal water and air.....you won't see any major gains.......probably not worth the risk or effort.
We tried one delidded under ln2......it lasted 3 minutes , never posted again.
__________________
heatware chew*
AMD is Back in Black Lifes more fun at -190C
How To Behave On An Internet Forum
http://www.thewavingcat.com/2008/02/...eed-the-troll/
http://www.livestream.com/chewsdisasterarea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa
1) Normal ES: Available to partners and press before the product actually launches. These are usually close to retail parts, maybe one stepping/node before retails. From my experience (I've had access to AMD & Intel ES CPUs before the official launch around 8 years) normal ES CPUs are actually usually worse than retails because manufacturing process develops all the time and retails keep getting better. Every Phenom II press sample (not even marked as ES but couple weeks earlier than retail parts) I've tested so far have been worse than normal retails.
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09-12-2009, 08:57 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 56
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Delidded with a torch or a gentler method? I remember seeing a Phenom I Agena that had the top popped off with a torch but it was already dead beforehand.
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09-12-2009, 09:34 PM
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#8
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No rest for the weary
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dark horse in R.I.
Posts: 6,361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DedEmbryonicCe1
Delidded with a torch or a gentler method? I remember seeing a Phenom I Agena that had the top popped off with a torch but it was already dead beforehand.
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It was done by AMD themselves.....
__________________
heatware chew*
AMD is Back in Black Lifes more fun at -190C
How To Behave On An Internet Forum
http://www.thewavingcat.com/2008/02/...eed-the-troll/
http://www.livestream.com/chewsdisasterarea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa
1) Normal ES: Available to partners and press before the product actually launches. These are usually close to retail parts, maybe one stepping/node before retails. From my experience (I've had access to AMD & Intel ES CPUs before the official launch around 8 years) normal ES CPUs are actually usually worse than retails because manufacturing process develops all the time and retails keep getting better. Every Phenom II press sample (not even marked as ES but couple weeks earlier than retail parts) I've tested so far have been worse than normal retails.
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09-12-2009, 10:02 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 72
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09-13-2009, 12:17 AM
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#10
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Xtreme Addict
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Shimla , India
Posts: 1,129
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I think lapping is better "less chance you can break it"
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09-13-2009, 04:01 AM
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#11
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Xtreme Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Trollhattan, Sweden
Posts: 112
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i think i will try lapping it flat first.. the ihs is far from being flat.. very concave..
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09-13-2009, 04:39 AM
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#12
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Xtreme kickass
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,138
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Lapping the heatspreader will gain you anything from 0 up till sometimes even 10ºC under load, idle won't see much of a difference.
Keep us posted, i'm curious how much of a difference either lapping or removing the hs will give.
__________________
Asus Crosshair III Formula | Phenom II X4 965 C3 | 2x2GB Dominator GT 2000 C8 | 2x ATI HD5770 Crossfire | Silverstone DA800 | Samsung F1 1TB
Watercooling: Heatkiller V3 LT | EK 5770 Delrin fullcover | PA120.2 & PA120.3 | DDC2+ Delrin top | EK 200mm res | Tygon R3400 3/8 tubing
Case: Murdermodded TJ-07
sub 9 sec. SPi1M 940BE 955BE 965BE
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09-13-2009, 04:51 AM
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#13
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Xtreme Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 884
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The biggest issues with removing an IHS is not massivly overheating for long periods of time, and also, bending the PCB too much.
I first preheat the whole package to around 100c, then use a 'hot plate' that's around 200c. by applying gentle but constant "prying" pressure between hspreader and PCB, when the IHS itself conducts the heat to the solder joint, it will flow, and break free.. too much pressure though and the PCB might bend to a point it fractures solder joints on the capacitor networks.
This prevents the die from seeing excessive hea,t as when the solder melts, the cpu pops off, I quickly remove it from the area and let it cool naturally.
Remember, regardless of the fact the IHS older is relativly low melting point, the IC's can handle around 240+deg Celcius (~470 F) for a short time, as that's the temperature they would see if soldered onto a board. Not to mention the packaging process itself.
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09-13-2009, 05:06 AM
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#14
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Xtreme Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Trollhattan, Sweden
Posts: 112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
Lapping the heatspreader will gain you anything from 0 up till sometimes even 10ºC under load, idle won't see much of a difference.
Keep us posted, i'm curious how much of a difference either lapping or removing the hs will give.
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i will post results later..
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09-13-2009, 09:54 AM
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#15
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Xtreme Addict
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cleveland ohio
Posts: 1,886
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ihs removed would be nice a copper true sitting flat on bench board on some small case.
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09-13-2009, 11:09 AM
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#16
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I am Xtreme
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Posts: 8,357
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I think I dropped a few C lapping mine, not really sure though. My temp sensor might be broken. Added pressure to my TRUE mount and gained... nothing. Odd chip. On the other hand I gained 100mhz at the same voltage stock cooler lapping an AM2 3800+ X2 a few years ago. Here's a mid lap picture of my 940BE, as you can see they are quite concave.
and finished
Took about 2 hours started out dry sanding with 100 grit until it was all copper then smoothed it out with 600 grit wet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
For normal water and air.....you won't see any major gains.......probably not worth the risk or effort.
We tried one delidded under ln2......it lasted 3 minutes , never posted again.
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Do you know what caused it to break?
__________________
Phenom II 940 BE / ASUS M4A79 / HD5770
3808mhz CPU 2720mhz NB | DDR1088 5-5-5-15 | 975/1300
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09-13-2009, 12:53 PM
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#17
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Xtreme Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Trollhattan, Sweden
Posts: 112
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okay, i have lapped the cpu now, and i did it with only 600Grit, cus thats the only one i had at home..
after running intelburntest a couple of times to let the AS5 have some time to "cure", i now see around 1-2 deegres lower temp.. thats ok, but not really what i expected.
have to admit im still very tempted at delidding this sucker.. 
Last edited by Tommie_lj; 09-13-2009 at 01:00 PM.
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09-13-2009, 08:50 PM
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#18
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Live Long And Overclock
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afireinside
I think I dropped a few C lapping mine, not really sure though. My temp sensor might be broken. Added pressure to my TRUE mount and gained... nothing. Odd chip. On the other hand I gained 100mhz at the same voltage stock cooler lapping an AM2 3800+ X2 a few years ago. Here's a mid lap picture of my 940BE, as you can see they are quite concave.
and finished
Took about 2 hours started out dry sanding with 100 grit until it was all copper then smoothed it out with 600 grit wet.
Do you know what caused it to break? |
Holy Hell, if it isn't AFI 0_o
How're you doing m8? You must be in highschool/ college by now? 
@Tommi, lapped CPU? WE NEED MOAR PICS !! 
Perkam
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09-14-2009, 01:30 AM
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#19
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Xtreme Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Trollhattan, Sweden
Posts: 112
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Perkam, sorry but i only have my K800i as a camera, and the cpu is already in the PC.. but i think i will try sanding it down to the silicone either today or tomorrow.. then i can take som pics for you guys 
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09-14-2009, 04:52 AM
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#20
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I am Xtreme
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Posts: 8,357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Holy Hell, if it isn't AFI 0_o
How're you doing m8? You must be in highschool/ college by now?
@Tommi, lapped CPU? WE NEED MOAR PICS !!
Perkam |
LOL! Yeah I'm still floating around... Doing pretty good I'd say. second year of college now 
__________________
Phenom II 940 BE / ASUS M4A79 / HD5770
3808mhz CPU 2720mhz NB | DDR1088 5-5-5-15 | 975/1300
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09-14-2009, 06:25 AM
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#21
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Xtreme Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Trollhattan, Sweden
Posts: 112
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guess what... im sanding the little bastard right now!! i have a fair bit of sanding left, but i think im pretty close hehehe..
first to sand a Phenom II to te silicone?? ^^
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09-14-2009, 11:14 AM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 56
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When I lapped my 5000+ Brisbane I discovered it had a concave depression in the center shaped like an hourglass. Regardless, I didn't notice much improvement with my Vendetta 2.
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09-14-2009, 12:40 PM
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#23
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Xtreme Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Trollhattan, Sweden
Posts: 112
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09-14-2009, 01:02 PM
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#24
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Xtreme Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Athens -> Hellas
Posts: 210
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Very nice Tommie...awaiting your temperature differences to be announced...
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09-14-2009, 01:47 PM
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#25
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Xtreme Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Trollhattan, Sweden
Posts: 112
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waiting for the as5 to get full effect, but somewhere around 5 degrees celsius cooler from stock IHS..
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