n00b 0f l337? - Page 10

loonym · 06-08-2009, 09:53 PM

It looks cold

[XC] gomeler · 06-09-2009, 12:40 PM

Tuning with R1150 right now.. going well. Hopefully mounting this to a Phenom II X4 955 tonight to dump a little heat into the system and prep it for Core i7 tuning later this week.

Going to need to put a 120mm fan to cool the 2nd stage compressor. It doesn't receive enough refrigerant or airflow and after 30 minutes it was at 95 Celsius at the top, 87 Celsius at the bottom. Now time to figure out how to fit that fan in here..

[XC] gomeler · 06-09-2009, 04:34 PM

Harder than expected with such tiny compressors. To hold an appreciable load it's going to be low, evap around -65C to -70C

I tried a straight R1150 charge and got the evap down to -90C but it'd crash with more than 1 core on the Phenom II @ 4500MHz. Slowly dumping R1150 and adding R290 into the 2nd stage, trying to find an appropriate blend.

[XC] gomeler · 06-09-2009, 08:36 PM

Added another 1/2" of insulation on the HX and 1/4" of insulation on the 1st stage suction line. I think I'm losing a lot of HX capacity due to the amount of air flowing over the HX due to the massive condenser fan. The suction line stays around -20C and the HX near the 2nd stage inlet hovers around -15C while loaded, idles at -31C. Right now I've got a full R290 charge on the 2nd stage with no R1150 and it holes through 06 at 4500MHz with a evap temp of -56C and an IHS temp of -42C. I need to drop another 20 Celsius before I'm happy. Going to start feeding it small quantities of R1150 and monitor the HX temps. Would really like a larger 1st stage compressor to pull the HX down to -40C and go from there :-S

loonym · 06-09-2009, 11:04 PM

Isn't this -60 or so range you're looking at pretty good for the i7? I've seen comments about poor scaling past that, as well as some folks having issues with booting colder temps?

wdrzal · 06-09-2009, 11:14 PM

From the picture you posted I don't see a fan on the Desuperheater ? If not it will lower 2nd stage pressures and more importantly is your 2nd stage head temperatures.

[XC] gomeler · 06-10-2009, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdrzal

From the picture you posted I don't see a fan on the Desuperheater ? If not it will lower 2nd stage pressures and more importantly is your 2nd stage head temperatures.

There's a 38mm thick panaflo on the DSH, just wasn't in the picture. Going to stuff a 38mm 120vac fan in there before shipping that'll come on with the 2nd stage. Refrigerant going into the HX isn't much higher than ambient

Quote:

Originally Posted by loonym

Isn't this -60 or so range you're looking at pretty good for the i7? I've seen comments about poor scaling past that, as well as some folks having issues with booting colder temps?

Yeah, -60C isn't bad, it'll get you up to ~5GHz. There are some i7 with horrible cold boot temps, you've got a hot gas bypass to dump hot gas into the evap to warm it up for boot though

Just pray your i7 doesn't have a coldbug at -50C

[XC] gomeler · 06-10-2009, 04:26 PM

k, done tuning on PHII. Idles at -78 Celsius with no load on the evap due to the R1150 in the charge. With PHII @ 4500/1.55v it was looping 3D06 CPU test with the evap at -61C. HX temps near the 2nd stage inlet sit at -21C and the 1st stage compressor runs around 65C. 2nd stage compressor still runs warmer than I'd like around 80C shell temps with the DSH fan running. 1st stage is running 180psi dicharge and 7psi suction when fully loaded. 2nd stage is running 145psi discharge and 3psi suction with the evap loaded. Loading it up with Core i7 around 1.55v will be interesting, just waiting on my incredibly delayed Classified to arrive. Hopefully I won't have to tweak the charge much more, might have to remove a little R1150 and add some R290 on the 2nd stage.

edit: I tested the hot-gas bypass and it sort of works. Adam used too narrow of a bore capillary tubing so with the bypass enabled the evap would only drop down to -45C or so.

dinos22 · 06-10-2009, 05:07 PM

if you can hold a big load at -70C you can max out most i7s

dont sweat it

loonym · 06-10-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinos22

if you can hold a big load at -70C you can max out most i7s

dont sweat it

Yeah dinos, that's kind of what I thought too. This thing should be a lot of fun for playing with the i7s.

sdumper · 06-11-2009, 06:58 AM

Chris, I will be out of town this weekend so wont be using my load tester. Its adjustable up to 400 watts.

I can drop it off tomorrow on the way back from work just say the word.

[XC] gomeler · 06-11-2009, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdumper

Chris, I will be out of town this weekend so wont be using my load tester. Its adjustable up to 400 watts.

I can drop it off tomorrow on the way back from work just say the word.

Could you drop it off, will use it to maintain a continuous load once I can figure out what is necessary to hold the i7 975 stable

sdumper · 06-11-2009, 01:15 PM

Absolutely and im bringing the other item we discussed...

wdrzal · 06-11-2009, 04:04 PM

Gomeler check your running amps on the second stage compressor.

adding: Check to be sure your using the correct size run capacitor also.

A bunch of little issues can add up to one big PITA.

But looks like noob already schooled you in that.

[XC] gomeler · 06-12-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdrzal

Gomeler check your running amps on the second stage compressor.

adding: Check to be sure your using the correct size run capacitor also.

A bunch of little issues can add up to one big PITA.

But looks like noob already schooled you in that.

I was thinking about this. I know NoL uses 25 uF caps on these Rechi's but the spec sheet states 15uF and I'm pretty certain I was using 20uF caps the last time I doodled with them. Just so happens I have a 15uF and 20uF cap, so I'm going to measure the running amps with NoL's 25uF cap and then drop in the 20uF, and again with the 15uF. Not sure if I'll have a chance to do this testing tonight, dinner with the girlfriend in 2 hours.

Ozzfest05 · 06-12-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

I was thinking about this. I know NoL uses 25 uF caps on these Rechi's but the spec sheet states 15uF and I'm pretty certain I was using 20uF caps the last time I doodled with them. Just so happens I have a 15uF and 20uF cap, so I'm going to measure the running amps with NoL's 25uF cap and then drop in the 20uF, and again with the 15uF. Not sure if I'll have a chance to do this testing tonight, dinner with the girlfriend in 2 hours.

Goms Girl Friend

Expat GriZ · 06-12-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozzfest05

Goms Girl Friend

Foreigners song "Cold as Ice" comes to mind.....she sure is cute though!!!!!

loonym · 06-13-2009, 08:25 AM

Just bring her back there for KFC, beers, and phase tuning. What's the problem?

runmc · 06-13-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loonym

Just bring her back there for KFC, beers, and phase tuning. What's the problem?

What more could a gal asked for?

[XC] gomeler · 06-13-2009, 10:38 AM

Morning chores/cleaning/email out of the way, time to get to work. Just fired up the 1st stage. First I'm going to test the 2nd stage with 25/20/15uF capacitors and record the power draw with each option. I've also got SDumper's load tester hooked up to the evap, so once I figure out if I can really use a 15uF cap then I'll re-test the evap.

SDumpers(DetroitAC designed) load tester makes me want to rebuild mine and case it up. Mine is all dangerous with the bare variac although my variac is huge

Quote:

Originally Posted by runmc

What more could a gal asked for?

Sadly my girlfriend is vegan and doesn't like beer, so when I suggested that she just rolled her eyes

edit:

Initial numbers of 2nd stage @ idle
420-425w powerdraw with the 25uF cap
350-355w powerdraw with the 20uF cap
295-300w powerdraw with the 15uF cap

Thanks for the prod in the right direction Walt. Dropping compressor power consumption by ~33% should help the 1st stage cope a little better. For the record the 1st stage pulls 375w with the 2nd stage running. Now I'm slowly ramping up the evap load tester, going to jump in 25w increments and record the temps.

~~KaptCrunch~~ · 06-13-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by runmc

What more could a gal asked for?

once you get evap tuned "a stiffy" like an old man puts his in the freezer b4 gal comes over.......J/K

looks 15uF works best. how it sound on start-up? laboured or snappy ?

question using cap as run or start cap?

wdrzal · 06-13-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

Sadly my girlfriend is vegan and doesn't like beer, so when I suggested that she just rolled her eyes.

Thanks for the prod in the right direction Walt.

Thanks,removing 125 watts x 3.412 you just removed 426.5 Btu's the condensor doesn't need to reject

...........want some more good advice?

Find a new Girlfriend.

[XC] gomeler · 06-13-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaptCrunch

once you get evap tuned "a stiffy" like an old man puts his in the freezer b4 gal comes over.......J/K

looks 15uF works best. how it sound on start-up? laboured or snappy ?

question using cap as run or start cap?

It's a 15uF run capacitor. Startup is "normal", spins up quickly and powerdraw looks normal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdrzal

Thanks,removing 125 watts x 3.412 you just removed 426.5 Btu's the condensor doesn't need to reject

...........want some more good advice?

Find a new Girlfriend.

lol

Here is the initial testing. The 1st stage crashed on me at 225w so I need to play with the 1st stage charge a little more. I've also got the suction line on the 2nd stage running with just 1/2" of insulation, it is thoroughly wet so I have more performance to gain with better insulation. My original 3/4" thick insulation job was a few inches too short in length, need to pick up another section of insulation on Monday. I need to get the 1st stage HX to hold -15C to -20C with the 2nd stage fully loaded and then work on the 2nd stage a little more to try and balance out the temps a little more. Less R1150 and more R290 is in order I believe.

-80.4 idle
-74.4C 25w
-68.3c 50w
-64.4c 75w
-60.1c 100w
-57.0c 125w
-54.6C 150w
-52.4C 175w
-50.5c 200w
-48.9c 225w

wdrzal · 06-13-2009, 02:39 PM

What gas in in the first stage? & whats the low side pressure? do you know the superheat? Anyone have a P/T chart for R1150 handy?

[XC] gomeler · 06-13-2009, 03:35 PM

With the 2nd stage idling the 1st stage(R290) has 4psi suction and 165psi discharge with -21C near the top of the HX between the 2nd stage inlet and the 1st stage outlet and the suction line at -24 Celsius. With the 2nd stage loaded to 200w the 1st stage climbs to 7psi suction 175psi discharge and the HX drops to a stable -7 Celsius while the suction line hovers around -17 Celsius.

Should I measure the HX from the lowest point, directly in the middle, or the top? I think I chose a bad spot to measure as I'm more or less getting a measurement of where the warmer suction gases are mixing with the hot inlet gases. On reflection I should probably have measured nearer the 2nd stage outlet.

While posting this I dumped a little more r290 into the 1st stage, 10psi suction and 200psi discharge, -11C HX temps. Evap temps dropped 4 degrees at 200w to -54.7 Celsius, testing 225w right now.