Asus Rampage II Gene | Core i7 920 | 6*2GB Mushkin 998729 | BFG GTX280 OCX | Auzentech X-Fi Forte | Corsair VX550
—Life is too short to be bound by the moral, ethical and legal constraints imposed on us by modern day society.
I have always run my oc'ed systems with LLC enabled 24/7, P5K-P with Q9450, Maximus II Formula with Q9650 and P6T-D with i7 920. Operates as it should on all boards, no problems at all with any system to date. Maybe they will show degredation around 2015 or 2020 or perhaps they won't. If they do I'll let you know, if not then that will be the end of it.
Last edited by lowdog; 02-24-2010 at 12:10 AM.
I overclocked an i7 920 C0 at 4515 Mhz under phase, LLC enabled on a Gigabyte X58-UD4P motherboard and I noticed that my CPU was not stable any longer under Prime95, after a few weeks. The cause may be the voltages since I applied 1.35 V for the uncore (QPI/VTT) and 1.72 V on RAM. The other voltages were not high :
CPU : 1.475 V (bios)
CPU PLL : 1.8 V
QPI PLL : 1.2 V
IOH : 1.28 V
ICH : 1.14 V
Then I sold it and bought a 920 D0 3845B : the same phenomenon happened whereas every voltage was very low, always under phase : first fully stable at 4661 Mhz under OCCT and Prime 95 after 2 hours, it was no longer stable after a few weeks. In this case, the voltages were the following :
CPU : 1.375 V (bios)? LLC enabled
CPU PLL : 1.8 V
QPI/VTT : 1.22 v
QPI PLL : 1.1 V
IOH : 1.1 V
ICH I/O : 1.5 v
ICH : 1.1 V
RAM : 1.58 V
For this second CPU, I really wonder about the degradation cause : it is neither the temperature since the CPU never exceeded -8°C, nor the voltages since most of them are near or at the minimum level.
May the cause be LLC ?
Last edited by overclock; 08-29-2009 at 01:46 AM.
Intel 9900K @ 4800 Mhz
Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Pro bios F9
4x8 GB Gskill TridentZ 4000 18-19-19-39 @ 3866 Mhz
ASUS RTX 2080 TI
ASUS Xonar Essence STX
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Crucial MX500 2TB
Corsair AX 1500i
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Custom case and watercooling
I already wonder how you can run such OC's with such low QPI volts... did you try other rams ? Did you need a higher Vcore to stabilise now ?
Question : Why do some overclockers switch into d*ckmode when money is involved
Remark : They call me Pro Asus Saaya yupp, I agree
For the 920C0, the uncore frequency was at 3440 Mhz and the RAM, at 1720. So the QPI voltage had to be at 1.35 V.
For the D0, the uncore frequency was 3108 Mhz and the RAM at 1333 Mhz. So, only 1.22 V was required.
Moreover, the extreme cold enables low QPI voltages.
With the 920 C0, I tried 3x2 GB GSkill Pi-series and it was impossible to obtain a stable overclock, the stability behaviour was random : sometimes, Memtest was fully stable 3 times and after a reboot, Memtest did not pass once.
I did not test with a higher Vcore up to now since I changed the motherboard and I did not mount the evaporator head yet. So I am running stock frequency, on air, during a few weeks.
Last edited by overclock; 08-29-2009 at 02:20 AM.
Intel 9900K @ 4800 Mhz
Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Pro bios F9
4x8 GB Gskill TridentZ 4000 18-19-19-39 @ 3866 Mhz
ASUS RTX 2080 TI
ASUS Xonar Essence STX
Intel Optane 900p 480 GB
Crucial MX300 2TB
Crucial MX500 2TB
Corsair AX 1500i
Windows 10 x64
Custom case and watercooling
Well the thing about LLC and people saying it's dangerous having the vcore jump up.
Take my board for example (R2E), having LLC off that means my vdroop at 1.35v idle/bios~ drops to almost 1.31~ during full load, then when going off load it boosts up to 1.35 again. But with LLC enabled it goes up to 1.37~ instead during full load, then back to 1.35 on idle. So I actually have less volt variation with LLC turned on than off.
To run my computer stable at 4.4, with LLC off, I would need to pump about 1.41 at idle to maintain a 1.37~ at load. Which would be 0.6 more volt on idle than i need now. Which honestly in my opinion is far worse and "damaging" on the CPU than 1.35 idle and 1.37 load.
This might just be my board and bad vdroop though, but it seems logic to me that the volt changes with LLC on is less "damaging" than with off.
Edit: Seems like I had vcore jump and overvolt spikes mixed up as Leeghoofd pointed out. Anyhow, I never noticed any odd spikes with the dmm future on my RIIE during prime. Maybe need to sample a bit longer.
Last edited by zoqiet; 08-29-2009 at 12:01 PM.
Asus Rampage II Extreme (1504)
i7 920 @ 210x21 4.4ghz 1.37v/1.26vtt 3849A916 HT on
6GB G.Skill Trident 16000 Elpida BBSE @ 6-7-6-20 1682mhz 1.55v
GTX 295 Single PCB @ stock :<
HK 3.0 Copper, MCR320, Laing DDC 18w, XSPC Res Top: 38c Idle / 73c Load
It's not the Vcore up jump , it's the overvoltage spikes (at eg 1.4Vcore set, that ya CPU sometimes can get 1.6 or such during milliseconds)
LLC is best put off when benching (strain on the mobo's PWM's) for daily use I don't see an issue with it... unless there's something seriously wrong with ya board...
Question : Why do some overclockers switch into d*ckmode when money is involved
Remark : They call me Pro Asus Saaya yupp, I agree
I couldn't seem to get my 4GHz o/c stable when LLC was disabled, but it was no problem stablizing it with it enabled..
I will keep it enabled on my systems.
Even the andantech article waveforms showed the same proportional voltage overshoot with LLC enabled or disabled, as would make the most sense.
If I have LLC off, bios volts = max overshoot volts. So assuming board is following intel specs:
If I set 1.35v in bios, my idle vdrops to 1.3v (so overshoots from idle never go above 1.35) and load will be 1.28 (so overshoots from load never go above 1.35). So overshoots would be .07v max at load, assuming the bios appropriately calibrated vdroop + vdrop such that what you set in bios = maximum overshoot.
If I then set loadline at 1.28v, because at load that is what I need to be stable, and lets assume LLC was perfect and no vdrop/vdroop. Overshoot still occurs .07 over load or to 1.35v, so nothing changed, except at idle I am now at 1.28v instead of 1.35v, but both settings has same temporary overshoots.
I think as long as you realize, ie in this example, 1.28 LLC on = same overshoot as 1.35 LLC off, and not for example assuming 1.45vcore LLC on = 1.45 vcore LLC off, I dont see the issue.
Until someone with a 5K+ oscilliscope can prove that overshoots are worse proportionately with LLC, I will be using LLC, and actually even that would not stop me at this point, since i have been using LLC so long, I would then conclude any difference is apparently not harmful given my particular cpu use.
No problems here with my E8400E0.
Gamed 24/7 at 4.55Ghz @1.480v with LLC on for 6 months, served me well till the day I took it out to make place for a Q9550E0
Its a keeper
L846824 Q9550 E0 VID 1.2875 (Tuning)
Maximus Formula flashed to Rampage
XMS2 1066+5-5-5-15@2.1
Xigmatek S1283 Push+Pull
Case is outside and modded for best flow and temps.
From my understanding using LLC in conjunction with EIST or C1E can cause dangerous voltage spikes. This is when core clock and/or voltage/FSB is consently changing of the CPU cycling with C1E or EIST. So it's best to use LLC when EIST and C1E is disabled.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
+1 to that. I remember the crazy guy that clocked a ton of CPU's way past 1.8vcore with LLC.
As for the scardie cats, don't use LLC then. No harm, no foul right?
I use LLC and it gives me higher OC, less heat, and very little voltage "spike" (it's more like a dribble). If some people are going to call me a noob for that then so be it. Yes I understand the risks and the concerns, but that doesn't mean I respect them.
On the flip side I know one person that fried an e8500 with some pretty low voltage and LLC happened to be enabled. Just because LLC happened to be enabled people jump to the conclusion that it killed the chip. Fact is, we don't have enough details. What I do know is that I've been running it and benching for days on end. My chip is fine and like I said the voltage spikes and temperatures are all in check. After all, the max spec for my 1156 chip is 1.55vcore and @ 1.39vcore and LLC enabled I'm not even close. Max it ever spikes to is 1.40v.
Last edited by Vinas; 11-30-2009 at 01:04 PM.
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I use Asus Rampage 2 Gene CPU 1.192 it overvolts from time to time to 1.2 Volts which isn't bad at all. No stability issues, but i might do some tests, what program do you use to monitor the voltages?
AMD 1055T | Noctua NH-D14 | Asrock 890gx Extreme3 | 2x2 GB A-Data 2000 | Asus 5770 | PcP&C 700W
Are you guys certain that we shouldn't be running LLC with EIST and C1E?
LLC allows me to drive the voltage from 1.4v to 1.375v (reads in CPU-Z as 1.344 v)
EIST and C1E are nice when the CPU clocks down to 6x multiplier (2.27 GHz) and drops vcore to 1.050v.
So yes at the moment I am running all three. Is this a bad idea? I'm even running all of this with Gigabyte's dynamic energy saver which is throttling the CPU and managing power usage and saving watts somehow. Tells me I've saved 97 Watts in the past 5 hours. I don't know where it's getting it's energy savings from.
Am I doing any damage to my CPU with all of this?
Last edited by Spare-Flair; 12-07-2009 at 11:06 PM.
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 B3 @ 3.6GHz under Thermalright Ultra-120 True Black Rev. C
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P @ 400MHz FSB w/ 8GB OCZ Reaper HPC DDR2-1066
XFX HD 5870 w/ Arctic Cooling Twin Turbo Pro
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When I did a degree in electronics my Lecturer (Prof or Dr in electronics), said that he leaves his PC on as its safer than turning it on and off. Ever pushed the light switch only for the bulb to blow? Its the voltage transients (spikes) that are damaging regardless of if they breech the max vcore limits.
i also had a PSU die when I flicked the wall switch with the PSU switch on, now I always turn one thing on at a time.
What is this?! People talking about scary thing called overvolting and LLC?! Am I still @ xtremesystems, or this is some other forum?
Maximus 5 Gene | i7-3770K @ 5GHz | ADATA 2x2GB @ 2.6GHz 9-12-10-28-1T | HD7970 @ 1200/6400
Rampage 4 Extreme | i7-3930K @ 5GHz ||| X58-A OC Orange | i7-980X @ 4.6GHz
Faulty components cause blowouts. If no components are faulty there is exactly the same risk in constantly leaving your system on as there is turning it off and on. Its not necessarily voltage that kills either, but the current. Higher voltage = higher current.
"Prowler"
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But the problem is only with high voltages right?
Example on i7, voltages greater than 1.4V (1.55V specifications)
i7 4770k @ 4.4GHz | MSI MPower | 8gb Geil Evo Corsa 2133 | Gigabyte GTX670 wf3 | Samsung 830 256gb | 3xWd Re3 raid5 | Antec HCG 620w
Θ Core i7 4770k 4.4ghz 1.3v :'( Θ Core i7 2600k 4.5ghz 1.344v Θ E8400 500x8 4ghz 1.36v Θ Core i7 860 @ 4ghz 1.328v Θ Turion M500 2.2ghz 1.025v Θ Phenom II 955 c3 3.91ghz 1.52v Θ Phenom II 545 3.77ghz 1.47v Θ
_~{ ALL RS }~_
my question is, when set to auto is it on or off? hmmmm
i7 4770k @ 4.4GHz | MSI MPower | 8gb Geil Evo Corsa 2133 | Gigabyte GTX670 wf3 | Samsung 830 256gb | 3xWd Re3 raid5 | Antec HCG 620w
Θ Core i7 4770k 4.4ghz 1.3v :'( Θ Core i7 2600k 4.5ghz 1.344v Θ E8400 500x8 4ghz 1.36v Θ Core i7 860 @ 4ghz 1.328v Θ Turion M500 2.2ghz 1.025v Θ Phenom II 955 c3 3.91ghz 1.52v Θ Phenom II 545 3.77ghz 1.47v Θ
_~{ ALL RS }~_
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