I don't really give a $hit about the temp sensors, it's the degradation reports from guys using only 1.4v and less that worries me.
I was wondering about that one too.Can you post some links for the reports ,please?
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Quick dictionary lesson:Bulldozer : n. 1.A multi-threaded performance-oriented x86 processor core contained in the “Zambezi” processor for client PCs and “Interlagos” and “Valencia” processors for servers. Included in the “Scorpius” desktop PC platform and “Maranello,” “Adelaide,” and “San Marino” server platforms. “Bulldozer” will be a completely new, high performance architecture for the mainstream server, desktop and notebook PC markets that employs a new approach to multithreaded compute performance for achieving advanced efficiency and throughput. “Bulldozer” is designed to give AMD an exceptional CPU option for linking with GPUs in highly scalable, single-chip Accelerated Processing Unit (APU) configurations. 2.A heavy, driver-operated machine for clearing and grading land, usually having continuous treads and a broad hydraulic blade in front 3. An overbearing person; a bully.
Well informal, they aren't officially reports, but symptoms reported. I can poke around and find some links if you'd like. There were posts on this site about it. Of course, it was brushed off as a PSU or CPU issue lol. There was also a poll going on at some greek forum that had interesting results showing degradation over a week or so of time with low~medium volts.
The idea of what high volts are goes out the window as it should with this new architecture. I think it totally skews the current methodology of how to get a good, safe over clock. That's why I don't see why people think the current board and bios offerings make any sense. Sure 45nm can run on them, but it's starting to seem like putting a porche engine in a mustang body.
This is sorta bringing up a chicken before the egg argument. So what side is everyone taking? Are these new chips designed for todays boards and chipsets? Are todays boards and chipsets designed for yesterday's chips? Does fancy cooling matter as much anymore?
Thanks for the informations mrcape.
It sure sounds like electromigration effect,but i must say i'm a bit sceptical about it happening in "weeks time-frame".I would've expected it to show up after several months of heavy overvolting(>1.5V),not in weeks time.
Could it be that since the increased stress on the VRM(after excessive OCing),some of the components of the mobos started to fail?It would have looked like you described it.But if the chips(in question) experienced the same behaviour in a brand new motherboards,then it would mean sure degradation.Also like you said,it could be PSU failing,too.
If you get a hold of some links,post 'em up please.Thanks .
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Quick dictionary lesson:Bulldozer : n. 1.A multi-threaded performance-oriented x86 processor core contained in the “Zambezi” processor for client PCs and “Interlagos” and “Valencia” processors for servers. Included in the “Scorpius” desktop PC platform and “Maranello,” “Adelaide,” and “San Marino” server platforms. “Bulldozer” will be a completely new, high performance architecture for the mainstream server, desktop and notebook PC markets that employs a new approach to multithreaded compute performance for achieving advanced efficiency and throughput. “Bulldozer” is designed to give AMD an exceptional CPU option for linking with GPUs in highly scalable, single-chip Accelerated Processing Unit (APU) configurations. 2.A heavy, driver-operated machine for clearing and grading land, usually having continuous treads and a broad hydraulic blade in front 3. An overbearing person; a bully.
I agree with Vapor we are getting too hung up on temps and VID's and pack dates and week this that and the other. Just bench it and see how you go. You'll either be lucky or unlucky with the cpu you have.
As for degredation I'd like to see a mass of people on XS get it first rather than rumours from a Greek forum etc. It is true though that this is a new process using new metals and we are sticking 50% more volts through a cpu which has smaller surface area, so if you need a long lived chip then just give it 1.3v and hit 4Ghz or abouts. That's still not shabby.
But if you are XS then stop whinging about things and just do it. I'm doing 4.5GHz plus at 1.55v.
Not to beat a dead horse here but this is something I said well over a year ago. Temp does not matter. What matters is stability. If your stabil then your overclock is good...
Reading over the forums (briefly) sounds like what we see with Everest with Phenom before the recent build or with CoreTemp with Brisbane... there is no official support from AMD or Intel on providing information on the DTS other than what the author of CoreTemp has extracted for C2D's...
It could be that the calibration algorithm has simply changed or that the wrong MSRs are being read, and the legacy MSRs are just getting the wrong digital value.... this is probably nothing at all, other than the Inquirers seemling clocklike attempt to smudge/blackmark any Intel new release by digging around in the forums.
Then again, there could be a problem with the DTS and temperatures are better taken from the socket than at the core.
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".. an ounce of honest data is worth a pound of marketing hype." - Spec.Org
Thanks for the informations mrcape.
It sure sounds like electromigration effect,but i must say i'm a bit sceptical about it happening in "weeks time-frame".I would've expected it to show up after several months of heavy overvolting(>1.5V),not in weeks time.
Could it be that since the increased stress on the VRM(after excessive OCing),some of the components of the mobos started to fail?It would have looked like you described it.But if the chips(in question) experienced the same behaviour in a brand new motherboards,then it would mean sure degradation.Also like you said,it could be PSU failing,too.
If you get a hold of some links,post 'em up please.Thanks .
It is not electromigration that should be a concern with respect to the newness of this product, but TDDB.
(If I read the context of your refrence to EM correctly).
If there are people concerned about a safe overclock, my advice would be never exceed the Vmax spec'ed by Intel... as this is the spec that Intel states the CPU can handle.
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".. an ounce of honest data is worth a pound of marketing hype." - Spec.Org
Last edited by JumpingJack; 02-01-2008 at 04:33 PM.
yeah i agree, but most go manual anyway so VTT/FSB stays the same.
Yeah how could you go auto with vtt/gtl if it's (auto) designed for 65nm which needs more? For me, setting it lower made all the difference in getting a stable setting at or over 4ghz.
This is a great paper. I'd like to see a continuation with present day examples (boards/chipsets/chips).
On my board in windows core temp reports 42c minimum temp no matter what, load are 51 core 0 and 61 core 1, that's at 4ghz. On the other hand gigabyte's cpu utlity reports 30 idle and 51 load. Cpu doesn't experience any problems beside one, C1E when enabled crashes system.
I'm concerned about temp readings on these cpu as mine HAS degraded over the space of a week, with 4ghz first requiring 1.3375, and now requires 1.3825, 4250mhz used to require 1.425, now requires 1.4625.
Loss of clocks happened over the space of a day..one day i primed 4ghz for 12.5 hrs, and when done, went up to 4.25ghz, again primed for 12 hrs.
Left the systems on idle, came back, it wasn't stable. Prime would not run for more than 1 minute.
I spent some time verifying the board was ok, that ram was not the cause, all parts proven stable using other components.
So, during this, cpu was under fuson block in Maximus Formula SE. I never mounted cpu with aircooler. But temps never budged from 35c CPU and 40c DTS0 and DTS1.
So, on air, temps went over 70c DTS at stock, which seems a bit high for 45nm, but oh well.
I'll be checking throttling next time I get a chance...I don't think it's an issue tho...
And I'm sorry, but "stable" isn't good enough for me. Stable can include TM1/2 throttle, with no notice given to user, without knowing what to look for. Without accurate temp readings, it's impossible to verify that throttle is an issue without specific software, and hence my need for such temp readings...it's nice to know how far away you are...
no hw mfg actually advertizes or guarantees a thermal diode to work properly.
you could have a cpu or gpu or other chip with defective temp reading and it would not get rma'ed
no hw mfg actually advertizes or guarantees a thermal diode to work properly.
you could have a cpu or gpu or other chip with defective temp reading and it would not get rma'ed
I agree with you. So how do we go about getting accurate on die temp readings? maybe they could leave a hole in the IHS so we could use our own thermal probes.
Did I just say that
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