Damn i'm too busy in here, anyway here is a german K10 Overclocking Guide
They got most of their infos from here, but it's a nice roundup.
Damn i'm too busy in here, anyway here is a german K10 Overclocking Guide
They got most of their infos from here, but it's a nice roundup.
Last edited by justapost; 01-11-2008 at 08:09 PM.
very interesting
that explains alot of problems people have been having overclocking the K10///
Last edited by jonspd; 01-11-2008 at 08:29 PM.
Good to see they care about the Phenom somewhere in the world.
For my part I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of the stars makes me dream.
.
.
German.... Can't read that
Oh well, by the time I get one there will hopefully be an english version or if nothing else just use google translator and decipher it
The Cardboard Master Crunch with us, the XS WCG team
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where can you find the translated english?
AMD Athlon 64 x2 6000+ AM2 CCB8F 0740 FPMW
MSI K9A2 Platinum v1.2
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I did not know that some phenoms start to get unstable with a nb speed ~1900MHz thought the limit is ~2100MHz.Originally Posted by jonspd
@SparkyJJO might be worth translating, but i'll stay away from that project due to my bad grammar.
I'm awaiting parts still
looks like at this rate it might be mon instead of tom/today
Basics
With AMD Phenom, there are a total of five different types of clocks:
* Reference clock
* Processor clock
* Northbridge clock (short NB-clock)
* Hyper Transport link (in short: HT link)
* Memory clock
The reference clock lies with the Phenom exactly like the K8 in the normal state at 200 MHz and using the multiplier is due to the fact the real processor clock. The Northbridge clock and the HT-Link are also using multipliers calculated from the reference clock. The memory clock is calculated as opposed to K8 means of a relationship, also from the reference clock.
The Northbridge clock has an impact on the performance of the system, as for example, the L3 cache with this clock operates. Higher NB-clock means higher L3-stroke. However, the NB-stroke only conditional influence on the performance, as seen in the LOSTCIRCUITS below.
Practical example
Let us take the example of our practice Phenom 9700 ES. This comes with a clock rate of 2.4 GHz and a multiplier of 12. The speeds are as follows:
1st 200 MHz reference clock
2nd Processor clock = 200 * 12 = 2,400 MHz
3rd Northbridge stroke = 200 * 10 = 2,000 MHz
4th HT link to 2,600 MHz
5th DDR2 memory clock-400 to DDR2-1066
The Northbridge stroke are calculated from 200 MHz reference clock with multi 10th The HT-Link is also available via multi between 1 and 13 * 200 calculated.
The memory clock is based on the reference clock with these conditions calculated:
DDR2-400: 1:1 (200 MHz reference clock, 200 MHz real memory clock)
DDR2-533: 3:4 (200 MHz reference clock, 266 MHz real memory clock)
DDR2-667: 3:5 (200 MHz reference clock, 333 MHz real memory clock)
DDR2-800: 1:2 (200 MHz reference clock, 400 MHz real memory clock)
DDR2-1066: 3:8 (200 MHz reference clock, 533 MHz real memory clock)
As you can see, is the direct influence of rational speeds not possible. It merely changed the fundamentals of the corresponding pulse rates by either the reference clock or the equivalent multiplier, or the ratio changed.
Viewed with CPU-Z, the whole thing looks like this:
Memory clock at K10
While at AM2 because of the complicated calculations not every memory for each processor clock cycle was possible and therefore part of the memory far below the specification had to be operated (especially users of processors with odd or half multipliers which can sing a song Chen), this image has radically changed. The fact that the memory clock derived from the reference clock is at every processor clock, the full memory clock. The processor multiplier plays no role.
Current Phenom platform
Currently there are for the AMD Phenom as "house" only platform motherboards with AMD's chipsets the 700 series. Here are all features supported, which is why this guide more on this platform.
It runs also on the Phenom-AM2 motherboards, but here again apply other special features. They later something more.
OC example
Let's say we use an AMD Phenom 9600, in conjunction with DDR2-800 and change the reference clock from 200 to 220 MHz. For the HT-Link Multi 5, we are given. This shows the following speeds:
1st Processor clock = 220 * 11.5 = 2,530 MHz
2nd NB-stroke = 220 * 9 = 1,980 MHz
3rd Memory clock = 220 / 1 * 2 = 440 MHz and DDR2-880
4th HT link = 220 * 5 = 1,100 MHz
Current problems
On the Internet we can read in part that high-HT links do not work. The reason is simple: As soon as the HT link higher than the NB-clock set, booting the PC is not more. Why this is so, is currently tapping (yet?). The fact is, however, that the practice of exactly this behavior.
Conversely, it means that when you Phenom current maximum multiplier 9 for the HT link should use (which is 1.8 GHz with HT-Link 1.8 GHz clock means NB).
The NB-multiplier
The NB-multiplier is currently freely available to all Phenom models in the standard operation at 9. A change in the multiplier is equipped with the AMD's own OC-tool AMD Overdrive not possible, so currently the only way is through the motherboard's BIOS is possible. Unfortunately, not all motherboards have the ability to adjust. Known so far:
* DFI LANPARTY UT 790FX-M2R
* SAPPHIRE PURE CrossFireX PC AM2RD790
Since these motherboards in cooperation between the two manufacturers were found in two BIOSen following options:
CPU-NB DID (adjusting option 1 or 2)
CPU-NB FID (adjustment from 00 upwards)
CPU-NB DID is a divider, the value of CPU-NB FID shared. But the adjustable value for FID is not for the real value, because in this Hexcode encrypted. In reality it looks like this:
* 00 = 4
* 01 = 5
* 02 = 6
* 03 = 7
* 04 = 8
* 05 = 9
* 06 = 10
* 07 = 11
* 08 = 12
* 09 = 13
* 0A = 14
* 0B = 15
* 0C = 16
* 0D = 17
* Etc.
With Phenom with a 1.8 GHz clock NB is the value CPU NB FID to 05 (which corresponds to the decimal value 9) and CPU-NB DID to 1 Real yields then the 9 / 1 = 9 And 9 * reference clock 200 is 1.8 GHz NB-stroke. Alternatively, the combination of real 0E DID 2 and 18 used, but what we have not tried. Calculated results in any of the same value. Does this further consideration, it is notable that even for the Northbridge half clock multipliers are possible (for example, with the combination FID 09, DID 2).
The information about the options in Hexcode and their decimal importance of a XtremeSystems thread in the forum were taken by the user, and Tony, who works at OCZ.
The NB-clock is therefore quite important, because it has only a limited potential stroke. Users in XtremeSystems forums are rarely well above 2 GHz clock NB, in part is already at around 1,950 MHz conclusion, which is why a reduction in the multiplier at the OC is recommended. Because if someone is actually already at the maximum of 1,950 MHz stable NB-stroke reached, it means that the processor at 217 MHz reference clock would find its limit (217 * 9 = 1,953 MHz).
The HT-Link
The chipsets of K8 had a standard all-HT link from 1,000 MHz (reference clock 200 * 5). Especially in the early days it was critical if this bar is raised above 1 GHz, since it often came to instability. With increasing "life span" of the K8, but always uncritical, so that when the chipsets of AMD 690s series partial to reach 1,500 MHz. As this cycle but only a very small impact on system performance, it was advisable, however, the OC of Referenztaktes the multiplier so that product as a value in the vicinity of 1,000 MHz to Beech st
When AM2 + is the reference clock with up to 2,600 MHz significantly higher. Due to the current problems described that the HT link is not greater than the NB-stroke may be, there are no problems here initially as initially at the K8. Even if we beat a high of well over 1,000 MHz runs, you are not in the area in which it comes to instability, as previously used the NB-stroke limited.
You can also calmly stroke the possibilities of the HT links to exploit, if you are not on the clock at the North Bridge ki jo ustvarja. This lends itself to the same NB and HT multiplier to use. Because both values from the reference clock survive are both bars then always the same high.
Prerequisites for the successful OC
As with the K8, it is some basic settings in the motherboard BIOS. From personal experience I suggest:
-- Cool'n'Quiet disable
-- Disable virtualization
-- Tensions manually
-- Speichertakt-/-timings manually
These settings are not mandatory. However, there is a case of non-compliance with a risk that it inadvertently gets into problems because the system clock rates and tensions can autonomously forgive what you do not want as a user. Therefore, it makes sense to test the required clock rates until all the options manually set, and later, if necessary, and the virtualization Cool'n'Quiet back.
Theoretical Ideal Example
The Phenom 9700 ES, which AMD us for the first motherboard tests provided it, can be viewed on a Gigabyte GA-MA790FX-DQ6 in standard voltage with up to 2.7 GHz operation. Because of the CPU multiplier is freely adjustable (by AMD Overdrive between 5 and 45), these clock rates from the Windows debugged out. It was, however, only increased the multiplier, all other clock rates remained on the standard values. But does that mean that there are still some performance would be wasted.
Suppose we could instead of the CPU with 200 * 13.5 with 270 * 10. If nothing else changes, this would result in stroke rates:
1st Processor clock = 270 * 10 = 2,700 MHz
2nd NB-stroke = 270 * 10 = 2,700 MHz
3rd HT link = 270 * 10 = 2,700 MHz
4th Memory clock = 270 / 1 * 2 = 540 = MHz DDR2-1080
It is assumed that the NB-clock for the system is much too high and therefore either unstable or receives only garnicht boots. Therefore, the multi-NB reduced. To below 2 GHz to stay, it offers multi-7, was constructed 1,890 MHz. To achieve this, you must
CPU-NB FID on 03 and
CPU-NB DID to 1
Set. This is according to the description upper constructed 7th
As mentioned above, the HT-link in this course also be reduced, because otherwise it is higher than the NB-stroke. It is also a reduction in the multiplier of 7 or less. If you use these settings, are as follows:
1st Processor clock = 270 * 10 = 2,700 MHz
2nd NB-stroke = 270 * 7 = 1,890 MHz
3rd HT link = 270 * 7 = 1,890 MHz
4th Memory clock = 270 / 1 * 2 = 540 = MHz DDR2-1080
Memory voltage
Currently in circulation in the Internet statement that it is in memory voltages of more than 2 volts to the CPU failure may occur. So far, on this point have not been proven in some but it should have happened. The possibility certainly exists, as the memory controller in the CPU, and thus dependencies and interactions exist.
Many memory, especially LowLatency-Ram, as well as high getakteter memory, have already been approved by manufacturers from a specification of more than 2.0 volts. Here, the user should therefore exercise caution because of a loss of the CPU is not to be excluded.
Who Xtremesystems.org at the forum reads, but also find the other extreme. There are screen shots with more than 2.0 volts VDimm, currently the head with a screenshot VDimm rich 2.9 volts, which for several hours was used. And without the impact on the processor.
Phenom on AMD AM2 motherboards
AMD has the Phenom designed so that it is not only in AM2 + motherboards running. Even older motherboards with the AM2 socket with this CPU can be used as both base the same number and arrangement of pins.
When operating an AMD Phenom in a AM2 motherboard, it should be noted that the highest HT link from the chipset depends, not on the K10. This means that the rule again as the K8, the HT-link possible in the range of 1,000 MHz to keep.
Prerequisite for the operation of a K10 in a pure-AM2 motherboard is the support of the processor by the BIOS. Unfortunately, it is still not widespread support for the K10, but this should in the near term. Who wants to know whether his AM2 board Phenom Ready, you should take a look in our collective GUM Forum throw. Here are the summaries of the current support to many motherboards to be found.
Useful Tools
To participate in the necessary information regarding the set values, offers these tools to:
AMD Overdrive: Currently in beta version 2.1.4 available (click!), It can read all the important data. It also offers many settings such as voltage and clock rates (except NB-stroke) to the Windows to overclock. AMD Overdrive chip set a record of the house 7 Series.
CPU-Z: The small, and now there are well-established tool currently in version 1.43 to download (click!). It can be used for quick readout speeds can be used. HT link and NB-stroke appears to be reliable.
Prime95: Of course, each cycle should also increase stability to be reviewed. This is Prime95 outstanding, which is currently in version 25.5 is (click!). The program starts in the election, "Just stress testing" a so-called self-employed worker thread per core.
K10Calc: The Forum, the user Xtremesystems.org lukija published a small tool, which is to the right NB settings helps. The tool can be downloaded here.
Note for upgraders
Users, based on the AMD Phenom change without Windows reinstall, before the change two things:
-- Verify that the AMD Dual Core Optimizer installed, and if so, uninstall
-- If the same motherboard used a Phenom Ready BIOS flash
If these two things are not respected, it can certainly happen that the PC does not start or is re-boots or Windows with bluescreens. Will the two points attends, the Phenom fun, however, nothing more.
Practical experiments OC
Now that the basic theory is discussed, we have finally come to a few practical OC settings. Was used for a SAPPHIRE PURE CrossFireX PC AM2RD790 in conjunction with our Phenom 9700 ES.
In preparation for the higher reference clock multipliers were the first for the CPU, HT link, as well as the NB-stroke (FID 04, DID 1) reduced.
After raising the Referenztaktes to 240 MHz, the whole thing like this. The processor's clock back to the original value, HT-Link and NB-stroke are also significantly higher again.
264 MHz reference clock SAPPHIRE formed on the main board being the maximum. Multi 9.5 mean for the 2.5 GHz CPU, HT-link NB-6x and 8x clock showed the values shown.
Maximum reference clock at the Phenom
Many will think that 264 MHz reference clock is not necessarily the killer. There must, however, be said that it is in fact already a top result. Is it that the results of the OC-Phenom precisely, it is clear that many users already at around 230 MHz cancel the sailing.
It seems as if the Phenom currently not in a position to reference clocks high to reach. This is not strictly necessary, since all performancerelevanten clock rates per multiplier, or computing relationship will be formed. But the best combination of all clock rates listed, is a reference clock elevated sense.
Phenom Black Edition
The black edition of the Phenom has as our engineering sample a free CPU multiplier. Thus, the transfer of CPU cycles without increasing the Referenztaktes and thus without modification, or HT-link NB-stroke. Of course, but the path through the reference clock available, but is no longer mandatory.
As mentioned already shown's always a combination of the change in all clock rates to eventually provide the perfect setup to be found. As each critical clock can be set individually, can be some tests with the respective limits relatively easy to find out at the end for maximum performance combined.
Remarks
This Guide collects explicitly not exhaustive. All information is to the best of our knowledge and belief and are collected by personal experience values in relation to the K10. Who additions and / or changes must communicate this may simply by PM, mail, or simply a post done.
I will try to guide the most up-to-date and to add new insights. Furthermore, we hope to start some in the OC projects with an AMD Phenom somewhat relieved to have.
REMARK: Translated with Google
Last edited by justapost; 01-11-2008 at 09:30 PM.
Wow thats a nice find...
Ive noticed that they use 800Mhz or lower memory Divider that explains why my 1603bios rockets with those settings even with a 6000+...It seems even though they have a 1066 option from what i see it does best with below 400MHZ on the memory..1T world again ,,flash back to 1996 and 754 settings lol..
"AMD...Like the perfect Storm,...Everything needs to be just right"
X555x4SuperCore@4450mhz@1.64v..........
RYZEN 7 1800x/ ASUS ROG STRIX VEGA64/ =EK NICKEL WB, Feser THC 2x360 1x480
X470 Gigabyte Aorus7, Patriot 3400mhz 16gb dual2x8
SSD Samsung 970pro,,860EVO
Wow, nice to see my little guide linked here in XS.
I found lots of infos in Tonys thread, I hope it´s ok to use it on Planet 3DNow!.
It´s an info from Tonys thread. He wrote that he had issues past 1.950 mhz nb-clock, too.
I used 800 mhz or lower because I wanted highest possible reference clock. And unfortunately 1066-devider doesn´t work on PC-AM2RD790 (atleast for me). I contacted SAPPHIRE to check this.
why phenom can`t bit more hihgher speed??
and i have issue from my friend, he said "phenom has bug in L3", that true r not?
Good work MusicIsMyLife.
A quick few things:
Your motherboard options and even some BIOS mapping values are going to vary from one board to another so be careful in what you name the guide (make sure you name the BIOS version you used as well as the boards early on because there are differences). For instance, MSI K9A2 Platinum doesn't have 0/1 for CPU/NB DID but divisor 1, 2, 4, 8, 16. 1 corresponds to 0 and 2 to 1 and so on.
The BIOS values for DRAM on MSI 790FX are:
1:1
1:1.33
1.1.66
1:2
1.2.66
Although in windows they will show up as 1:1, 3:4, 3:5, 1:2 and 3:8 as you stated.
Some boards (ASUS 790FX) have the CPU-NB voltage manipulation in the BIOS so they can OC the NB clock speeds too with better stability.
Yes, so far many users run 2.2V/2.3V daily on memory. I run this too without any problem. I did do on one 9500 for 2 months (upto 2.9V) and two 9600 too (upto 2.4V) as well as this 9600 BE for 2 days at 2.2/2.3V. You might have seen Sami of AMD running OCZ 1066 kit rated for 2.3V with retail Phenom 9600 BE on the MSI 790FX board as well, pretty regular.
And yep, 9500/9600 start to get unstable with higher than stock IMC speed (NB CPU) and thus require an increase in CPU NB VID/voltage. If you can't do this, you can't achieve much stability. Best overclocking is done with NB/HT at 5x/6x multiplier.
9600BE is a different thing altogether since it has unlocked NB VID/CPU VID control, you can run a 12x multi on the NB for sure. Higher hasn't worked for me yet (not a stability issue but looks to be a BIOS issue).
Higher NB DID than 0 has also not worked for me yet.
Disable Spread Spectrum Control and extra hardware/ports on your board before OC.
Keep MaxAsyncLatency (MaxReadLatency) and tRFC high when trying for high HT ref. OC.
Test the HT ref. limit of your board first, then your Phenom HT ref. limit at a low multiplier. It's best to proceed after this.
1. Manufacturing/core design issues.
2. Yes B2 revision of the CPUs have a TLB errata. Though no ones experienced it yet on the desktop level to our knowledge.
Lol, did not know you have an account here. Info's are spreaded around different threads with dozens of pages, so i thought your summary is usefull here.Wow, nice to see my little guide linked here in XS.
I found lots of infos in Tonys thread, I hope itīs ok to use it on Planet 3DNow!.
Hope you don't mind i posted the transaltion
Ah ok, that was the "Breaking the 230MHz ref HT Wall" thread i guess.
what the meaning of TLB errata?sori iam just new user in AMD...2. Yes B2 revision of the CPUs have a TLB errata. Though no ones experienced it yet on the desktop level to our knowledge.
Sources:
http://www.x86-64.org/pipermail/disc...er/thread.html
http://www.x86-64.org/pipermail/disc...ry/thread.html
No one here was affected by that errate till now.
This is the only situation i'm aware of the errata occuring.
http://www.x86-64.org/pipermail/disc...ry/010288.html
Thanks, but I only collected some information and put it together.Good work MusicIsMyLife.
Good point. I will add that.
Very good point. I forgot to mention this in my little guide.
I donīt post much on XS, but I read lots of threads. Itīs nice to see that my guide seems to be useful.
Yes, exactly.
The guide is placed in a part of our forums, where every registered user can take part and write down new information or can correct wrong things. So I think we will have a topic which will be up to date for a very long time.
http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?u=...&hl=en&ie=UTF8
English.
FireFox has a good translator plugin.
Awesome guide, thanks for sharing
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