Is anodized aluminum that bad when mixed with copper?

[masaville]

I've read countless threads about not mixing metals, but what I really want to find out is if anyone has had an anodized aluminum/copper loop using proper corrosive resistant coolant where it ended up corroded? What about radiators as well, such as 120.3s that use brass tubing? Should I be worried if using something like Fluid XP when mixing metals or?

[serialk11r]

What? Fluid XP??????

[Polizei]

Brass and copper are fine together.

[Marci]

Brass and Copper are side by side effectively in the galvanic series - corrosion won't occur between them.

Aluminium however is further apart in the galvanic series, so corrosion will occur between Alu & Brass, or Alu & Copper, or Alu vs Brass&Copper.

Anodized aluminium is fine to use in a loop if you can GUARANTEE that the quality of anodizing is perfect. The slightest scratch that goes thru the anodized layer, exposing bare aluminium underneath, will result in corrosion taking place very quickly. FluidXP etc will slow down the problem, but if you don't change the FluidXP frequently enough then corrosion will still take place. Same applies to distilled water and anti-corrosive additive.

As you can't guarantee the quality of the anodizing in the hardware within our scene, it's just safer to steer clear of aluminium altogether.

[masaville]

Brass and Copper are side by side effectively in the galvanic series - corrosion won't occur between them.

Aluminium however is further apart in the galvanic series, so corrosion will occur between Alu & Brass, or Alu & Copper, or Alu vs Brass&Copper.

Anodized aluminium is fine to use in a loop if you can GUARANTEE that the quality of anodizing is perfect. The slightest scratch that goes thru the anodized layer, exposing bare aluminium underneath, will result in corrosion taking place very quickly. FluidXP etc will slow down the problem, but if you don't change the FluidXP frequently enough then corrosion will still take place. Same applies to distilled water and anti-corrosive additive.

As you can't guarantee the quality of the anodizing in the hardware within our scene, it's just safer to steer clear of aluminium altogether.

Last two posts, very informative. Thanks for the info!!

[epion2985]

Should I be worried if using something like Fluid XP when mixing metals or?

What you should be worries about is using FluidXP, that stuff is utter crap and people here had nothing but problems with it. You just cant beat good clean water when it comes to moving heat. With a few drops of biocide to keep things sterile and maybe a few drops of dye if you like color.

[masaville]

What you should be worries about is using FluidXP, that stuff is utter crap and people here had nothing but problems with it. You just cant beat good clean water when it comes to moving heat. With a few drops of biocide to keep things sterile and maybe a few drops of dye if you like color.

Is it really that bad? I have mixed metals in the loop....I will need some kind of anti-corrosive fluid. Any other recommendations?

[masaville]

Get ready for 30-35 bucks a jug then if you use XP+, or whateverthe lastest version that's supposed to have addressed some of the issues people have been having. You can get good anti corrosion additives for a lot less than what they are charging for XP+

I use Pentosin, and it has good anti corrosion properties. If you use this, and change fluid often as I suggested above, you most likey as safe as you'll ever be IMO. With XP, you'll still need to change often, and it's price is silly IMO.

andyc

Is Zerex or Pentosin available in the US or Canada? Seems to be heavily used by Europeans, but I don't know if we have it in Canada. I know you can get it from Petra's, but it's out of stock and I was hoping to pick it up sooner.

[Bobsmith]

I know you can get it from Petra's, but it's out of stock and I was hoping to pick it up sooner.

Are you sure? It sure looks like it is in stock at Petras:

http://www.petrastechshop.com/peg11coadb4o.html
http://www.petrastechshop.com/peg12coaduvr.html
http://www.petrastechshop.com/loliredcoad.html (not Pentosin but basically the same stuff)

[IanY]

Its also available at your neighborhood Audi dealer (in blue), BMW dealer (in blue), VW dealer (in red/pink) and Mercedes dealer (in orange). Its named differently for the various auto brands, and the chemical compositions may be a tiny bit different, but its all Pentosin.

Valvoline Zerex Super Racing Coolant is available at almost all Napa auto parts stores, and I'm sure also at Autozone and Pep Boys. Make sure its the Super Racing Zerex (pink) and not the regular Zerex (green).

[IanY]

And stay away from Prestone and PEAK

If you are adventurous, you can go down to your local Ferrari dealership and ask for some of their proprietary clear antifreeze. Tell them your Enzo needs a flush but you only need like 50 ml rofl You may have to give up your left hand though lol

[IanY]

And if you use Zerex, *do not* follow the instruction of a 5% mix, aka 5/95. 5% concentration is too strong for Zerex and you run the danger of crystallization and potential clogging a more restrictive block like the Storm or AquaExtreme.

I personally have had success with using a 1% to 2% concentration, but it may upset you guys that look for a more "bling" look I have no regard for appearances.

[masaville]

And stay away from Prestone and PEAK

If you are adventurous, you can go down to your local Ferrari dealership and ask for some of their proprietary clear antifreeze. Tell them your Enzo needs a flush but you only need like 50 ml rofl You may have to give up your left hand though lol

LOL good one. Made me laugh.

I just picked up a gallon of it at the local Audi dealer....G11. Only one fellow knew it by the name of Pentosin, but nobody else did. When I said G12 and G11 they caught on. Now I have enough to last me....well.....forever lol.

Btw, if I'm mixing metals - copper, anondized aluminum, and brass 5% should be fine right? Or do I even need 5% with distilled water?

[ramenchef]

I believe G11 doesn't have anti corrosion from what I've researched. It's G12 that does. Zerex at 2-3% or G12 is what you want for mixed metals.

[Fairydust]

I believe G11 doesn't have anti corrosion from what I've researched. It's G12 that does. Zerex at 2-3% or G12 is what you want for mixed metals.

You might find this link helpful. G11 is HOAT, G12 (+) is OAT.

[epion2985]

If you are adventurous, you can go down to your local Ferrari dealership and ask for some of their proprietary clear antifreeze. Tell them your Enzo needs a flush but you only need like 50 ml rofl You may have to give up your left hand though lol

Not necessarily, you can try to wing it and siphon some out of someones ferrari.

On second hand you might not even have to. Someone I know was at the track on open day a while back and they had a pair of Enzo's there, and boy, they were an embarasement, both leaking coolant and oil everywhere, it was pitiful.

[masaville]

Nice link,

I see what "OAT" is as described, but not what "HOAT" is. Am I missing something, very intersting none the less.

thanks,

andyc

From what I've just read in automative threads, G12 is superior to 11 in thermal heat transfer, anti-corrosion, etc. and was designed for aluminum engines. So, based on the above you could technically use G11 or G12, but with G12 you won't run into any issues with silicates (maybe not in G11 either).

So....should I keep this G11 I have for my copper/anod. aluminum loop or run back and get some G12???

-----------------------------------
Unlike the previous coolant, this newly developed product permits a
cooling system fill that lasts the service life of the engine and
was designed with all-aluminum engines in mind.

Advantages over previous coolant:
Improved corrosion protection
Improve thermal stability
Improved heat transfer/control
Improved hard water tolerance
Improved environmental protection
CAUTION!G 012 A8D A1 must NEVER be mixed with any other coolant.
Engine damage will result !

Don't mix G11 and G12 heh.


Here's a real interesting thread about G11 and G12.

http://www.gti-vr6.net/wiki/index.ph...ine_coolant%3F

I especially like the part about lifetime coolant with a 2 yr shelf life. lol

From the sounds of it, both of them are just as good.

[nikhsub1]

From Petra's... is non-foaming

This is , I can foam that stuff like mad.

[ramenchef]

Here is one of the things I read:

g11 was designed to prevent corrosion in aluminum blocks and G12 was designed to prevent corrosion in alloy blocks.

By blocks, they are referring to engine blocks.
From that I concluded, probably mistakenly after reading this thread, that G11 wasn't good for mixed metal loops and that G12 should be used instead.

[masaville]

Here is one of the things I read:

g11 was designed to prevent corrosion in aluminum blocks and G12 was designed to prevent corrosion in alloy blocks.

By blocks, they are referring to engine blocks.
From that I concluded, probably mistakenly after reading this thread, that G11 wasn't good for mixed metal loops and that G12 should be used instead.

Think I should be okay - guess we'll find out. Heh.

[masaville]

I'm thinking fluid being emulsified by air when first filing the loop is a little different than foaming. If it wasn't anti foaming, than foam would be seeping out of my fill line now.

if you want to see the difference, just drop 3-4 drops of dish washing liquid in a test loop after the airs bleed out. Then you can see what true foaming is.

At least that's my thoughts,

andyc

Well, the G11/distilled mix is running in a single loop now on a BIX480, cooling 2 x 8800 GTXs and a 6700. There was some initial foam when I bled the loop, but that has since subsided. It was minor.

As for temps, they seem slightly higher at idle than the Zalman G200/Fluid XP, but it's so marginal at this point and also too early to tell. Gotta put a load on it and run some tests and see what happens.

It was super easy to bleed the 480 rad with the res mounted above it. Took a whole 2 mins if that.

[masaville]

good to hear. what ratio did you do your mix in?

Gl luck on the build,

andyc

5%, I believe that's what you stated you're using? I read elsewhere that it's plenty. Guess we'll see.

Temps under load seem to be just about the same....GPU is up maybe 2 degrees on avg compared to the g200/distilled and fluid xp I had in there before, but that might not be the fluid. It could be anything as I remounted the CPU, repasted, etc.

Do I need any PT nuke in there or similar?

I'll be posting lots of pics soon.

[ramenchef]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but G11 should be at a 10% ratio according to Petra's site. I could be wrong though.

[L33T]

Though I'd like to point out that from personal experience, mixing is okay:

o I've used a Koolance EXOS AL with an MCW5002 and DD Maze4gpu for about two years straight. No corrosion whatsoever occurred.

o The EXOS uses an Al radiator

o The MCW5002 features a Cu base and an anodized Al housing

o Maze4gpu is part Cu and part acetal

I used water and plenty of Redline Waterwetter.

[epion2985]

mixing is okay

Not that simple. Weather its ok depends on certain criterion. There are three conditions that must exist for galvanic corrosion to occur. First there must be two electrochemically dissimilar metals present. Second, there must be an electrically conductive path between the two metals. And third, there must be a conductive path for the metal ions to move from the more anodic metal to the more cathodic metal.