IHS on or off - that's the question...

RPGWiZaRD · 08-04-2006, 08:39 AM

Currently sitting here with an Opty 165 that does 2.8GHz ~1.45v but core0 fails very quick after some secs - mins during dual stress SP2004 but runs 1hr+ single and core1 is stable for many hrs. MBM5 temp shows like 48 - 49C, coretemp like 70C dual stress core0 and 55C core1

.

Should I remove IHS, does removing IHS improve core0 stability significantly in some cases? I have a Big Typhoon tho and I'm a bit scared I'd break the chip if I ran it naked. Why does these chips have to run so hot, my previous SD3700+ become about as hot at 1.7v - 1.75v as this one at 1.45v.

If I had to make a guess I'd say the IHS is seated very poor but I haven't cut off the IHS yet on any CPU.

swaaye · 08-04-2006, 09:32 AM

It's not likely to help much at all. You are up against the typical limit of these CPUs.

CanadianTSi · 08-04-2006, 09:47 AM

With temps of 70 I'd say you have pretty bad contact with the IHS.

I removed mine awhile ago for the first time, it was really easy and I've re-mounted my TT BT on it like 5 times now with no problems.

RPGWiZaRD · 08-04-2006, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swaaye

It's not likely to help much at all. You are up against the typical limit of these CPUs.

previous owner ran it stable at 2.85GHz 1.41v... It's a CCBWE 0550 UPMW that has both very good samples 2.9GHz+ aircooling and some bad ones. I don't think that's it...

I just popped in my old Sandy again to see what the temps are like and I'm having 32 - 33C idle (MBM5) 40 - 41C (coretemp) temps and 47 - 48C (MBM5) and 54 - 55C (Coretemp) full load 2.7GHz @ 1.65v (MBM5) in a room temp of 28C (yes it's damn hot today here). Whit Opteron 165 I had 37 - 38C idle (MBM5) 41 - 43C (coretemp) and 49 - 50C (MBM5) and ~70 - 72C core0 and 55 - 57C core1 (coretemp) temperatures when dual stressing (otherwise core0 shows maybe 61 - 63C tops) at only 1.43v (MBM5) 2.8GHz! Go figure...

I've remounted the BT on Opty 165 like 5 times already so that can't be it when I got these kinda temps again with my old SD3700+ with the 1st mount that went imo pretty bad (didn't use any acetone or alchohol or anything to clean the surfaces either just wiped off the AS5 with a towel). If I compare the 2 IHS's I clearly see the Opty one looks much more worn out especially at the edges while my SD3700+ IHS looks perfectly flat and no scars or anything.

Everything points to a bad IHS on the Opty 165 imo, I shouldn't be getting temps like that compared to the SD3700+ temps. I have 8x case fans too I may add.

MikalCarbine · 08-04-2006, 10:27 AM

I'd say go for it, if it doesn't help you can always reattach the IHS with some rubber silicon :P

RPGWiZaRD · 08-04-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikalCarbine

I'd say go for it, if it doesn't help you can always reattach the IHS with some rubber silicon :P

My heart says yes, my mind says no. I'm concerned I ruin it either when removing IHS or tightening BT onto the chip.

I think it would be pretty interesting results if I removed it tho and that gives me more inspiration to do it to maybe once again show how a bad IHS can ruin your overclocks... my bro that is not interested in computers at all is like "Don't do it you Â¤"%#". But he doesn't know what it feels like for overclockers when something's aint as it should be. lol

I dropped to 2.75GHz for example and it still was similiarly unstable. Dual stressing just gets too hot and single session runs much longer but chip still gets hot, core0 that is even at 1.41v (MBM5). But it runs fine/better up to something between 2650MHz - 2700MHz on stock volts for example as the chip stays a lot cooler. It's like volts doesn't help me just does it worse (raises the temp too much).

EDIT: I think I'll do it, I'll just have to search around on the net to find some removal guides, even tho I know how to do it, it feels safer lol.

EDIT2: yikes, I almost had a heart attack. It's really tough, I'd have to use a lot of force to push the blade tru so I even slipped so that there left a scar in the PCB at the corner of the IHS and there's a piece of the razor blade off! So I stopped and quickly install it to see if it works and phew it still does. But seriously how do u get the blade pushed tru... I would have to "saw" to be able to get trough which isn't recomended to do... Well at least the cpu is still alive, dunno if I wanna continue now tho.

The razor blade I used was very thin but it might not have been so sharp either...

swaaye · 08-04-2006, 02:12 PM

I took a hobby knife and wrapped the blade about halway with electrical tape as a guide/stopper, to prevent it from slipping in too deep and popping off a cap. That made it just a matter of going slow. It is tough to cut thru that silicone they use.

BTW, my 165 has a core that will clock way above the other too. What I have in my sig is what I'm talking about and 2.6G is the best I've been able to do. More voltage just shoots the temps way up and doesn't help.

Removing the IHS got me like 8C lower load temp and did get me to 2.6 barely. So I'd say it got me 50 MHz at best.

afireinside · 08-04-2006, 02:18 PM

Ok heres how you do it. Take the blade and put it on a corner and push it in a bit. Repeat for the other 3 corners. You should be able to get the blade under a corner and work from corner to corner at that point.

RPGWiZaRD · 08-04-2006, 02:34 PM

ok I'm at it again... I wonder how much can u cut at the edges really, cuz I've been all the way round it now a couple of times and still won't come off... I figure I need to cut slightly deeper... I think I've been dealing with 1 - 1.5mm so far. I'm scared to cut too deep.

edit: finally I got it off! I've got like 5 fingers slightly cut (using rubber gloves when typing this so I'm not letting some blood on my bro's keyboard). Damn these razor blades. At least everything's seems alright. Hopefully it's still alive. You so would laugh if u had seen me with all this paper around my fingers... too lazy to search for some band-aid. lol, such a feeling when it finally came off...

Like they say, no pain no gain.

MikalCarbine · 08-04-2006, 03:40 PM

How are the improvements? For safety I'd make some sort of shim or something, on my 4200+ I used some AXP rubber pads on the corners

RPGWiZaRD · 08-04-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikalCarbine

How are the improvements? For safety I'd make some sort of shim or something, on my 4200+ I used some AXP rubber pads on the corners

dunno what to put between really. What kinda glue can I use in case I put some slim between?

wonder if some thicker leather would work... my mom's sewing clothes and got plenty of leather.

Oh well it's 3 am here guess I should go to bed.

[XC] 4X4N · 08-04-2006, 04:34 PM

I've seen someone on here suggest using about 3 layers of duct tape on each corner. I tried it and it works pretty good. Makes mounting a big typhoon on the naked core easier. Don't worry about hurting the chip by tightening a big typhoon on it. I have used it on several naked cores, and have always made it as tight as I could get it, and haven't had any problems.

afireinside · 08-04-2006, 09:13 PM

Just hold (or better yet have someone else hold) the typhoon above the core and tighten your wing nuts down (assuming you're not using the crappy stock mount, if you are then I can't help you as I threw mine away) until the heatsink is touching the die. Then you can let do and EVENLY tighten each side down.

Raybo · 08-04-2006, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD

ok I'm at it again... I wonder how much can u cut at the edges really, cuz I've been all the way round it now a couple of times and still won't come off... I figure I need to cut slightly deeper... I think I've been dealing with 1 - 1.5mm so far. I'm scared to cut too deep.

edit: finally I got it off! I've got like 5 fingers slightly cut (using rubber gloves when typing this so I'm not letting some blood on my bro's keyboard). Damn these razor blades. At least everything's seems alright. Hopefully it's still alive. You so would laugh if u had seen me with all this paper around my fingers... too lazy to search for some band-aid. lol, such a feeling when it finally came off...

Like they say, no pain no gain.

I have been there...........no pain, no gain.

perkam · 08-04-2006, 09:33 PM

"BAA'AA'AA'AA'AA'AA'AAD Contact"

Perkam

vudoodoodoo · 08-04-2006, 09:37 PM

Have a cold one. Your fingers deserve it.

Raybo · 08-04-2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD

ok I'm at it again... I wonder how much can u cut at the edges really, cuz I've been all the way round it now a couple of times and still won't come off... I figure I need to cut slightly deeper... I think I've been dealing with 1 - 1.5mm so far. I'm scared to cut too deep.

edit: finally I got it off! I've got like 5 fingers slightly cut (using rubber gloves when typing this so I'm not letting some blood on my bro's keyboard). Damn these razor blades. At least everything's seems alright. Hopefully it's still alive. You so would laugh if u had seen me with all this paper around my fingers... too lazy to search for some band-aid. lol, such a feeling when it finally came off...

Like they say, no pain no gain.

Great picture,

I have never removed an IHS but I have rewired my boxen and my hand was quite like yours when I looked at it.......bleeding kinda bad.

In fact the "paper towel" that I used to soak up the blood looked much more "gorry" than yours.

I must be thin skinned?

RPGWiZaRD · 08-05-2006, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raybo

Great picture,

I have never removed an IHS but I have rewired my boxen and my hand was quite like yours when I looked at it.......bleeding kinda bad.

In fact the "paper towel" that I used to soak up the blood looked much more "gorry" than yours.

I must be thin skinned?

Well the worst bloody papers went down in the toilet, they were all red, didn't wanna show u a too "gorry" picture.

Anyways here is how I attached shims using contact adhesive (which was perfect as it's more like wax so it doesn't flow). I used a rubber ring that usually comes on top of the CD/DVD spindle packs. Cut small pieces of it and cut those in half as it seemed to be a bit too thick (~3mm). Now it looks pretty good and I shouldn't worry that the heatsink would crush the core at least...

EDIT: It's up and running again. Temperature on core0 seems to have dropped as much as 3 - 4C idle core0 and 1 - 2C core1 and 15 - 20C full load

and 2 - 3C core1 (needs more testing). Altough I wasn't able to run 2.8GHz stable on 1.41v yet for more than a minute or so on core0, dunno about core1 but it would prolly run much longer... will try and up the volts tho as now Coretemp shows 49 - 50C core0 and 51 - 52C in SP2004 dual stress testing after a few mins. Such a HUGE temp drop aint it, from core0 being like 15C hotter than core1 in dual stress test to a few degrees colder than core1 after taking IHS off...

Yikes, my PWMIC temp reaches 62C (opposed to 48C with my old SD3700+) during dual stress test and the surrounding air feels very hot perhaps a slightly limiting factor I have to deal with? Don't have a lot of space tho, would be able to put even a 120mm to blow sideways towards the big typhoon but if I wanted to put a fan blowing towards it it seems like I need 60mm...

Also my chipset fan starts to become bad, there's some extra noise from it now when restarting and the fan spins up to full speed. Chipset temp is 48C too even with a 92mm blowing at it... used to be like 4 - 5C lower. Such a hot day today too... 29C in my room. It's this titan VGA/chipset fan many user replace the original DFI chipset fan http://www.titan-cd.com/eng/vga/cuv2abld2.htm right?

Picture of the "black sheep" (thx to my big bro for this nice pic)

doesn't it look horrible, no way I'd put that back on ever again.

MikalCarbine · 08-05-2006, 07:57 AM

I'd get some sort of cooling on the PWMIC, it will most likely help with you OC, I use some case standoffs for a motherboard stacked a couple inches high with an 60mm blowing on that area

As for your chipset fan, I use an evercool VC-RE and it gives me some nice temps, and its damn quiet

http://www.evercool.com.tw/products/vc_re.htm

RPGWiZaRD · 08-05-2006, 08:23 AM

What's a good 60mm fan that pushes reasonable amount air at around 25dB?

mr.penco · 08-05-2006, 08:28 AM

hi
well, when i seen this thread i decided to take off the ihs of my venice e6 3000+.
but the temp and oc of my cpu is about same like befor,2.8ghz is max stable oc i could do.all stability sofware freeze when my cpu is oced to 2.9ghz.
tried increasing the vcore to 1.68v but it doesnt help.
i dont understand whats going wrong in my system.
my pc
mobo abit kn8 sli
cpu 3000+939 venice e6
cooling thermaltake bigtyphoon
ram twinmos speed premium 1gb dualchannel

the idle cpu temp @1.44vcore 2.7ghz is 33c and 39 fullload.ambient temp 30c.
mb temp dont go more then 33c @ fullload.
but system temp run @ 55-59c full load.

what i should improve to fix the freezing problem?
thanks.

RPGWiZaRD · 08-05-2006, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.penco

hi
well, when i seen this thread i decided to take off the ihs of my venice e6 3000+.
but the temp and oc of my cpu is about same like befor,2.8ghz is max stable oc i could do.all stability sofware freeze when my cpu is oced to 2.9ghz.
tried increasing the vcore to 1.68v but it doesnt help.
i dont understand whats going wrong in my system.
my pc
mobo abit kn8 sli
cpu 3000+939 venice e6
cooling thermaltake bigtyphoon
ram twinmos speed premium 1gb dualchannel

the idle cpu temp @1.44vcore 2.7ghz is 33c and 39 fullload.ambient temp 30c.
mb temp dont go more then 33c @ fullload.
but system temp run @ 55-59c full load.

what i should improve to fix the freezing problem?
thanks.

Seriously I would be happy with 2.8GHz from a Venice 3000+ that's very few that does on aircooling, average I think is like 2.6 - 2.7GHz max clock.

EDIT: to summarize my experience and hints from removing IHS the 1st time:

- If your core0 is several (let's say 10C+) hotter than core1 it might be the same case as it was for me, bad seated IHS. Removing it made even core0 run a few degrees COOLER than core1.
- Stay calm
- Use a sharp and as THIN blade as possibly. I used razor blades from some cheap Gilette razor. I tried with a bit thicker blade 1st and it was almost impossible to cut the silicone without using LOTS of force. Whit suitable blades you can cut a whole edge in matter of seconds, so I'd try other blades immediatly if you feel this ain't gonna work as you could simply ruin your CPU instead!
- Numbers: Cut ~3mm or slightly more at corners, 2 - 2.5mm at edges. You can use an electrical tape as a guide to make it a bit easier. I personally just compared with a ruler and the pattern on the razor blade to know about how much to cut.
- For bigger heatsinks (Big Typhoon, Tower, Ninja etc) I'd really use a shim. Most commonly used is obviously Athlon XP rubber pads but myself used some rubber ring that usually comes on top of the CD/DVD spindles (imo has perfect softness/hard ratio) that I cut to small pieces and also cut it in half to reduce thickness to ~1.5mm instead of 3mm. 1.5mm seems to be a great thickness value for shims depending on softness. I used contact adhesive to glue the pads to the PCB (I highly recommend that). I felt it was easier to install BT now with these pads on the corners than before with the IHS on as it wouldn't move around at all when placing it down onto AS5 as even if I didn't held it in place so screws were easier to attach. I had no probs tightening the screws as much as possible, but I stopped tightening immediatly when I felt huge resistance.
- Last but not least, if you use small razor blades like me I'd advice using gloves or some protection on your hands unless you wanna risk cutting your fingers and bleed like a stung pig. I was so focused on not ruining the CPU so I didn't really care about small wounds altough I ended up with small wounds on 5 - 6 fingers! But that doesn't disturb me, I still think it was worth it (the crazy world of overclockers)...

sephiroth8748 · 08-05-2006, 04:36 PM

Try this. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ghetto+pwm+mod

My pwm never goes above 42c with it.

RPGWiZaRD · 08-05-2006, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sephiroth8748

Try this. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ghetto+pwm+mod

My pwm never goes above 42c with it.

Wow nice difference and it would look nice in my case in case it fits... I've got SLI-DR and all the cables are in a spindle in the middle between the HDDs in front and the Big Typhoon so it could be a very tight fit... At least it looks like an easy solution for those who got the space as it seems to sit very well on those sinks. Whatever I would be able to find it in Finland is another thing.

I've got like 46 - 47C idle and 56 - 57C gaming and up to 62C dual stress SP2004 but judging by the hot surrounding air I would say it's prolly hotter than that even. I think this might be one of the reasons it might not overclock as well as for previous owner (or then my mobo simply is a crappy monday sample). Wonder how much a single 60mm fan of 20 - 25cfm would help or if I need to find other solutions. Don't wanna put any 8000rpm 60mm delta fan over there either.

CanadianTSi · 08-05-2006, 08:35 PM

Just to let you know I have my TT BT on my naked x2 3800 with no shims and I have it cranked down as tight as I could possibly get it, like all my strength tight. I've done this a few different times with no trouble at all.