Aggressive suggestions for competitions

[M.Beier]

Hi guys, recently, there has been some episodes about cheating, of which we are all aware of.... For that reason I have a couple of suggestions I wish to bring up... Obviously I have walked through these with my friend Massman, and I understand his reasoning for not wishing to implant them directly on hwbot, however, I think we can still discuss openly here as of COMPETITIONS, not hwbot submissions in generel!

1) NO CPU SHARRING, CPU MAY ONLY BE USED BY ONE USER, BE THAT 2D OR 3D, NO DIFFERENCE. (M.Beier)

2) VIDEO DOCUMENTATION MUST BE PROVIDED, WITH RESULTS ACHEIVED OF +-3% OF END RESULT. (M.Beier)

3) ONLY PURCHASED HARDWARE (Hondacity)

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1) CPU matters more then graphics these days, therefore its lunacy that its not restricted to share this, or in case of LOC, I do understand HIWA and others frustration about ryba being allowed to fly to Sweden, use Elmors hardware (maybe even his graphics? dont know, dont care about single incidence), to win no#1 of Europe and a big prize....

2) Lets face it.... For competitions its more then only hobby, it is in fact competition, with ALOT of expensive equipment, then it is not unreasonable to require video documentation of top result? If not the actual result, as it takes a long time to acheive the last one speciel unique run..... Then a +-3% replica, just to document it is possible...

3) (Hondacity) To make it more fair for the people who has bought their hardware.

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Please everyone share your thoughts, and give your input of how to set things straight as of competition, so that everyone is better of with the way it goes

Cheers,
Marc

[NeoForce]

Ok, Marc, let`s talk about it.
As a OCer, not a member of hwbot crew, I think that for competition where prizes are involved each competitor should have his own rig - yes it means NO sharing of anything - cause if some vendor will decide to make competition of PC Mark 05 - CPU and VGA wouldn`t be a main part here.

As a hwbot crew member I can say that it is very difficult to check such scores.....

[Leeghoofd]

I do not agree on the 3D no CPU sharing part, I see Hwbot and most online events as a team sport, not an individual egotrip...

For instance if we bench at the Shrimps what do we use for 3D :

01/03 with my REX and E8600
05/06/AM3 Vantage runs with Massmans X power or my REX III
Gamers 980X GT ( yes we only have one, I will buy one in August )
6GB Corsair GTX2, we've been using these rams on multiple platforms, luckily we only live 30 mins from each other...

And even some compoennts liek motherboards and the rams are shared for 2D...

GPU are being benched for scores not any of the other hardware listed above. If we accept your rule, well then it will be over for many teams as many share components of the above list... from that point Oc'ing is only for the rich... as you need a GT and E8600 to bench 3D if it's for hwbot or something else to really compete at..

I think it has to come more from the software side with extra build in validation stuff... just my 2 cents

[BenchZowner]

I agree with Marc for both HWbot and in general.
Image this:

I get lucky and find a 6.5GHz 3D 980X.
And since I'm in Greece at the moment, I pay a visit to some friends ( Hipro5, gprhellas, stelaras, sofos1990, crio, crustytheclown, aristidis, tsan, mortisboy, etc ) and give them the CPU to bench 3D with it.
What kind of goodness does this serve ?

[Leeghoofd]

And how on earth are you gonna control that ? take a picture of the batch ? it's almost mission impossbile... Bill you are helping ya team, which is still a different thing as Dimitri specified it you compete in a big tournamement.. I have zero probs with sharing CPU's in the same team for 3D actions

[NeoForce]

BenchZowner Image this - Some overclockers didn`t have enough money (as AY) - and they bought one 980X - one of them is posting 2D results - and both of them are using it for 3D benching cause it is the only CPU they have. So you think everyone should spend around 2500euro to be ilegible for benching at all? (this price includes CPU + MoBo + RAM + at least 2 pots + PSU + HDD/SDD).

BUT! if you enter serious competition - you should be able to have it all - cause if you win you should go somewhere and show your skill

[M.Beier]

I am talking big competitions only for the record, since its ALOT to require being able to record the result.... Requires a secondary PC and a webcam, or a cam (most digital cams are plenty good)..... BUT when prizes are high, as they can be.... GOOC qualifier / MOA qualifier / LOC / GIGABYTE SUPEROVERCLOCED and so on.... I think it is FAIR to require, as its something where you spend alot of money on hardware anyway.

[Leeghoofd]

So a set of rules for one competition. Marc be honest, how many people entered the competition LOC anyway ? if you are gonna lay down so many new rules, some will not even bother.
You have to make Overclocking more accessible to the public without lowering the values/morals...

[T_M]

I dont agree with either of these

[carpo93]

You have to make Overclocking more accessible to the public without lowering the values/morals...

2) VIDEO DOCUMENTATION MUST BE PROVIDED, WITH RESULTS ACHEIVED OF +-3% OF END RESULT.

For some competiotions here in Italy(Gigabyte Battlefield Pi 1M, Nexthardware Battlefield and PcT Aquamark Contest) we had to submit the video of the final result and this was a succes.
NO cheater in those competition and we had lot of fun because we hadn't any doubt about other competiotors score

[M.Beier]

So a set of rules for one competition. Marc be honest, how many people entered the competition LOC anyway ? if you are gonna lay down so many new rules, some will not even bother.
You have to make Overclocking more accessible to the public without lowering the values/morals...

I hear you on that, no doubt, and agree with you, but when its highly prized international competitions, isnt it determaned to be "elite"?

[ReverendMaynard]

Maybe the companies holding these competitions should leave the $1000+ unlocked multi (more about binning than skill) cpu's for hwbot, leveling the playing field and THAT will make things more accessible for more people who love the hobby. Would love to see a comp with just 920's, I'd kick all your asses

[massman]

So a set of rules for one competition. Marc be honest, how many people entered the competition LOC anyway ? if you are gonna lay down so many new rules, some will not even bother.
You have to make Overclocking more accessible to the public without lowering the values/morals...

This.

There are two aspects on competitions:

1) Make it interesting enough for people to consider joining (eg: even retired people like Gautam get interested)
2) Don't make it too complicated so people stop when they see 150 very specific rules have to be followed.

YES, you can make it extremely tight on the side of the rules, but chances are that you won't reach the same audience. The tighter the rules, the more prize you have to give. The slacked the rules, the slacker the prizes.

Maybe the companies holding these competitions should leave the $1000+ unlocked multi (more about binning than skill) cpu's for hwbot, leveling the playing field and THAT will make things more accessible for more people who love the hobby. Would love to see a comp with just 920's, I'd kick all your asses

Binning comes in all forms and shapes. Luck comes in all forms and shapes. It's not because you currently don't see people binning 920's that you wouldn't see this if focus was put on the CPUs.

[Hondacity]

what about samples from msi(manufacturer/vendor)....hazzan is competing @ msi contest using samples from msi

oh look at what brian@asus says about this sponsored guys...

way to go asus

We will not sample any hardware or modded hardware to ANYONE.If i catch anyone doing so, i will personally handle it myself. Our forum moderators will not qualify for the contest but they may post a few examples to help some of the new members understand how it should be done. We are purely here to teach new comers into the sport of overclocking and hope that the experienced members can help guide them to the top.

i know some won't be using samples..which is fanstastic..anyways...just chiming in ....lets compete

[M.Beier]

what about samples from msi(manufacturer/vendor)....hazzan is competing @ msi contest using samples from msi

oh look at what brian@asus says about this sponsored guys...

way to go asus



i know some won't be using samples..which is fanstastic..anyways...just chiming in ....lets compete

Honestly, I think Brian ment it as a joke.... Imagine this; for something like LOC, no one at a company got a full knowledge on exactly WHO has received products.... So basicly; its a cute dream, but wont happen.

Besides I dont see the problem in vendors supplying a specific product, let me refrase that; for P55 challenge by Gigabyte in Hamburg, no#1 and no#2 in DK for the qualifier, used atleast one motherboard for their entry that was a press sample.... I dont really see the problem? Its ANOTHER matter if using a super processor screened by master cookie himself.

I can assure you that MSI, GIGABYTE, ASUS HQ in Taiwan has no clue on who from USA or Europe that has a motherboard supplied by their company.

[Hondacity]

i guess you're telling me...from an organizers perspective

join in on our contests....some overclockers will have samples(cpu and mobo)...go screw yourself...we have lots of prizes

[Leeghoofd]

I hear you on that, no doubt, and agree with you, but when its highly prized international competitions, isnt it determaned to be "elite"?

Define ELITE plz : he who has got the best toys can qualify ? The potent OC'er that doesn't have the 6.5Ghz GT but has to enter the qualifying round with eg an i950 ? There are some many aspects to this... We discussed one person on MSN Marc that did his job wel in 2D and 3D in a live event. But he lended a fast CPU from a fellow country men... is that bad ? Was it better if some rich kid got the chance to bin 10 CPU's and maybe even let it OC for him by some geek and go to the Euro finals ?

Same goes for you press samples, with the XPower only the happy few got a board via a related press guy, some early pre retail board etc... not everyone was able to get a board like that out of a shop...

I know what you are trying to do Marc. But there are so many aspects and points of views it will be darn hard to lay down all of them toughts in a bunch of rules. Plus these rules have to remain acceptable and understandable for the OC community...

[M.Beier]

Define ELITE plz : he who has got the best toys can qualify ? The potent OC'er that doesn't have the 6.5Ghz GT but has to enter the qualifying round with eg an i950 ? There are some many aspects to this... We discussed one person on MSN Marc that did his job wel in 2D and 3D in a live event. But he lended a fast CPU from a fellow country men... is that bad ? Was it better if some rich kid got the chance to bin 10 CPU's and maybe even let it OC for him by some geek and go to the Euro finals ?

I believe that person has his own gulftown as well, since its a tester from nordic hardware.
Problem for me is; that a few can decide who will win a contest, because they have the top hardware....
Andre would be able to do it for entire asia and USA.... Simply by letting one guy from ASIA fly to his place, and bench with him..... and when being in USA, if Skinnee and afrokalle (or who ever) did same.... It wouldnt have been cheat.... Then 6 qualified could use 2 CPUs..... Globally... I dont consider that a good way, no.....

Hondacity;
CPU's no.... Hard to control though! Motherboards / VGA's impossible.... I follow what you are saying, but just telling you, I dont find it realistic to do in reality, and not worth trying to fight that one, because the fight will be lost, better just get the best out of it..... And motherboard same model doesnt really vary that much to be honest.... VGA's is another matter, and actually a bit easier to control, since most vendors have centralized marketing devision of graphics.

EDIT; to your edit Leeghoofd, DEFINANTLY, thats why I think it is ULTRA important that all the bright people in here stick their heads together to find some good rules.... I have at no time said I have the ultimate answer, because I dont, but I want to share my angle on this matter!
Sometimes more chefs ruins the food (believe it goes like that in English as well), but DONT think that is the situation on this matter.... And honestly; sorry, I do not believe this task is to be lifted by one person, especially not for the global competitions by vendors.

[Leeghoofd]

Just talking with PJ on MSN : why not allow some events like MSI LOC ( to win them last tickets to Taipei ) be done by people who have never ever participated in a big event. In the RC world we have several classes of drivers ; those that have have attended Euro & World finals are A drivers, then you have B drivers (the lesser gods) , 40 years old classes etc... I would be shocked if you have a 15 year old guy with a 6.5Ghz GT...

[M.Beier]

Just talking with PJ on MSN : why not allow some events like MSI LOC ( to win them last tickets to Taipei ) be done by people who have never ever participated in a big event. In the RC world we have several classes of drivers ; those that have have attended Euro & World finals are A drivers, then you have B drivers (the lesser gods) , 40 years old classes etc... I would be shocked if you have a 15 year old guy with a 6.5GGhz GT...

I am not saying that is a bad idea, but it is as far away from the topic as reasonable is, the topic is meant for how to keep the competitions as clean as possible...
I wouldnt mind the idea being implanted to a contest, but really isnt the purpose of this thread my friend.

[Hondacity]

i agree with you...

i don't mind intel...doing sh*t to their favorite guys...

its the motherboards...why can't we put restrictions saying .."use own motherboards..not samples"

easy peasy

so overclocker has sample.....and declares he bought it...worth investigating if overclocker lied...

we need forms that overclocker declares his hardware are his and purchased upon these dates...proof of purchase(like rma sh*t)

if he's using a sample and declares it as sample..then hey you....you're not qualified..sinces the "aggressive right rules" say so..

sorry i'm pounding at overclockers who are sponsored..

i would still like to see ...

contest(samples not allowed kinda contest)

thats why i'm sorta joining the asus comp..lol...poor me..i'll be against 980x @ 6.5+ ghz

[massman]

so overclocker has sample.....and declares he bought it...worth investigating if overclocker lied...

we need forms that overclocker declares his hardware are his and purchased upon these dates...proof of purchase(like rma sh*t)

if he's using a sample and declares it as sample..then hey you....you're not qualified..sinces the "aggressive right rules" say so..

Manufacturers lie. The keyword is 'reimbursement'.

[M.Beier]

i agree with you...

i don't mind intel...doing sh*t to their favorite guys...

its the motherboards...why can't we put restrictions saying .."use own motherboards..not samples"

easy peasy

so overclocker has sample.....and declares he bought it...worth investigating if overclocker lied...

we need forms that overclocker declares his hardware are his and purchased upon these dates...proof of purchase(like rma sh*t)

if he's using a sample and declares it as sample..then hey you....you're not qualified..sinces the "aggressive right rules" say so..

sorry i'm pounding at overclockers who are sponsored..

i would still like to see ...

contest(samples not allowed kinda contest)

thats why i'm sorta joining the asus comp..lol...poor me..i'll be against 980x @ 6.5+ ghz

because it makes little difference.... When is it given, when is it bought? Wouldnt you consider a review that takes alot of hours actually being paying the product several times in hard labor?
Also incredible hard to control... But why does the "paying" mean anything??? The problem is when that golden hardware can be used to decide exactly WHO goes in my opinion....

You cant remove the sponsored guys; what you wish to acheive is to remove a huge part of marketing.... Wont happen... You are just giving a kick in the nuts to the guys who has to do work with a certain product....? For what good?

[Hondacity]

what is your resolution to problem...

i'm just suggesting we have some sort of declaration/paperworks regarding hardware used in competions...and competitions requiring overclockers to declare..what hardware is used...

some guys keep their hardware(from rep/manufacturer) for keeps...

some get to use it..and manufacturer/rep ask for the hw back...samples...

some buy hardware to compete..


edit...

hw including cpus...

[M.Beier]

what is your resolution to problem...

i'm just suggesting we have some sort of declaration/paperworks regarding hardware used in competions...and competitions requiring overclockers to declare..what hardware is used...

some guys keep their hardware(from rep/manufacturer) for keeps...

some get to use it..and manufacturer/rep ask for the hw back...samples...

some buy hardware to compete..


edit...

hw including cpus...

Very well, I am not the judge
If pinning it down to one simple line would you put it like this:
Only purchased hardware can be used for competing in competitions

? If so; I will add it to original post with you username as suggetion