Playing with an 8K3A+

[MrIcee]

Hi guys

Well...I hunkered down while awaiting RMA returns of my KX7's(benching abuse ) and have been playing with an 8K3A+. Many of my friends here run this board and love it..and every once in awhile have needled me about trying it out. I sold a couple things and procured the Epox.

I must say...this board was very easy to setup...stable as hell and all the good things I had heard. I've been playing with different bios's and settings...including the shipping 2328,2312 and just recently installed the 2619. My only disapointment so far is that even tweaked right out...it falls behind in 3Dmark benches to my previous KX7 at the same settings by 500-600 points. The reasoning I believe is that because the board is designed for novice to intermediate overclockers to be able to achieve high FSB along with remaining stable. For the multitude of us..its nice to be able to push the envelope to the edge...or have that option, just for benching.

Needless to say...I played with the usual registers and attempted to set Bit 1 of register 97 to enable the fast cpu command decode..but it would not set in WPCredit. Regardless..I made note of what the data change would be and entered it anyway in WPCrset. I've been determined, before I take this board out..to find some damn bandwidth...LOL And so my friends...here is maybe the highest Sandra bandwidth bench I've seen on an 8K3A.

[SKATAN]

bios 2312 is the best for 3dmark


install it and you will get those 500~600 mrks


it has cpu fast comand decode enabled


lol sandra 2002 mem bench means didly squat to me

bench it with mmx sse and buffering disabled (or sandra TE ) and you will see why the loss of 500~600 mrks with that bios


bios 2312 is the only option on that board for performance

[majormav]

beats my best mr icee and ive had it a while shows what a true master u are youve only had the thing 5mins and blowing us all away

[MrIcee]

As an addendum...I'm trying to work on the AGP implementation. Chong345 was kind enough to send a WPCredit screenie of the 2312 bios(as it seems the fastest 3DMark bios) so I can compare the possible difference in AGP registers at 199Mhz FSB +.

What I really would like also...is a KX7-333R WPCredit screenie of the same...199Mhz+ FSB...AGP set as follows: 128 Aperture, 4X AGP and Enhance AGP enabled. Thanks in advance...its greatly appreciated

Randi

[MrIcee]

Skatan

I have the fast command decode enabled 2312 is what I was using at my test bench MHZ of 1695Mhz. All things the same including timings. Win 2000..4.37's and 29.40 Dets. Here is the comparo:

KX7 - 13,973
8K3A+ - 13,356

That is substantial in difference. This is why I'm trying to dial in bandwidth at high FSB ala the KX7...now its just getting the AGP up to snuff

Randi

[SKATAN]

Ok

that is a huge diference


but bios 2312 has a problem over fsb 180 it forces a setting

and that is a huge killer in performance , and i realy mean huge,


at offset 6b bit 6 it disables it, for performance it should be enabled I don´t bother since it is enabled with wpcrset

there is another register that is enabled and should be disabled that also afects performance but not as much as the other register

95-> bit 4 should be disabled


try this and I want to see that 8k3a score match kx7

some times the bios bug happens at lower fsb but that is more rare

[Chong345]

Well I tried some benching last night but my board doesn't want to cooperate any more. I tried to use the same settings I always use but no go. I'm gonna try the kx-7 switch and see how it goes. Then I get to get a view from the other side.

[N8]

Originally posted by MrIcee
Skatan

I have the fast command decode enabled 2312 is what I was using at my test bench MHZ of 1695Mhz. All things the same including timings. Win 2000..4.37's and 29.40 Dets. Here is the comparo:

KX7 - 13,973
8K3A+ - 13,356

That is substantial in difference. This is why I'm trying to dial in bandwidth at high FSB ala the KX7...now its just getting the AGP up to snuff

Randi

Randi,
Are you saying you ran 3DMark w/ the 8K3A, 2312 BIOS, @ 8.5x200? I don't think I've known anyone w/ an 8K3A who could run the 8K3A @ 200MHz FSB w/ the 2312. This would mean 1 of 3 things:

1) You have a very nice board there if it can run 200MHz FSB w/ the 2312.
2) You ran the 2312 but at a lower FSB / higher mult combo.
3) You ran the 2328 or 2619 in ur 3DMark comparison w/ the KX7.

I'm curious....which is the right answer?(if any)

[MrIcee]

Nate

I ran the 2312 at as close to 1695 as possible knowing I couldn't hit 199Mhz FSB, as I did on my Abit. The best I could do 1712Mhz..or 9 x190mhz FSB. Even with the register tweaks it was no dice my friend....I don't care what bios you use with this board..its still at least 500 points behind a KX7 or KR7A. When I get the bandwidth dialed in so its comparable to the Abit...I can't use it in 3Dmark..its too unstable...but will bench Sandra all day.

I actually got the 2619 with tweaks to bench better at 199Mhz FSB than the 2312 at 190Mhz. You must remember the key to 3Dmark is high FSB coupled with high bandwidth. High bandwidth at 190Mhz will get beaten by 200Mhz and high bandwidth, benching at the same Mhz level...say 1695Mhz for all intents and purposes, with all other things being equal. Thats the bottomline.

Thats why the top benchers want a board that will bench at 200+ and provide the bandwidth to go with it...the 8K3A+ because of its engineers does not. Don't get me wrong...because I like the board very much for its stability and ease of use. But my friend...I couldn't get close to the top ten with this board....I might make low to mid 14,000's...honestly....where the Abit at only 2034Mhz brought me to 15,000. Yes, the Abits are finicky and sometimes a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: to get everything hitting on all cylinders...but with patience and perserverence...they will outbench any other AMD board on the market

Randi

PS. Looking back at my old benchs..I even outbenched the 8K3A+ at 1695Mhz with my KR7A-Raid.

[N8]

I agree w/ u that the KX7 is faster. But I don't think its 500-600 pts faster

When I had you run that comparison b4, u got 13100 to my 12600. Well, I've since learned some things that have gotten me up to 13100.....now, this is w/ 5mhz more fsb and 50mhz more cpu.....but I know of at least 300pts that came simply from tweaks that apparently were common knowledge......which were not so common knowledge to me at the time

I give the KX7 300pts at the very most over the 8K3A at extreme FSB's.....but, you are correct about the 2312 not being able to get the FSB up high enough to compete w/ the KX7's. However, I think the only reason you can't take say the 2619 up high enough to compete w/ the KX7 is the AGP tearing that occurs. For me, its around 214FSB that I start to get tearing. I personally think that w/o the tearing that the 8K3A could hit near KX7 performance w/ another say 15-20MHz of FSB(at same CPU MHz that is)

[N8]

For me, when I bought this board, it was not for competing on the ORB. When I found out I could be competitive in my category w/ the economical components that I had purchased, this is when I started publishing scores.

I still say, even for the extreme overclocker, this is the board to get over the KX7. Perhaps not so much for the guys who want to run at the top of the ORB, but if you wanna OC the hell outta ur CPU w/ less effort than the KX7, IMO the 8K3A is the answer. Coupled w/ the 2619 BIOS the 8K3A IS one excellent overclocker....but, it will not outscore the KX7 clock for clock.

I reckon it just bugged me that many of the Abit guys will tell you this board is junk....at least Randi will admit that it is a stable, good overclocking board. Just don't expect to outrun a KX7 performance wise w/ it.

[Hardass]

If you are a novice trying to decide which of these mobo,s to purchase this thread just made it a whole lot easier. Thank you all!

[MrIcee]

Nate

I do like this board alot...I am not that Abit biased not to appreciate its great qualities. I've owned Gigabyte too and it was a great board with good performance for the time..tho not real overclocking friendly because of no Vcore adjustments.(Had to pencil in a bridge on my T-Bird to get 1.85v )

I might have some success if I could pull off the memory volt mod...if I had 3.22v which my memory thrives on to hold max timings at high FSB....I might be able to use that 207Mhz in my first post to bench 3DMark. Thats the kind of bandwidth you need to achieve great scores...but at the settings and tweaks I used to achieve that score....it will kick me out of 3DMark in a hurry...telling me I need more volts. I found what I believe is the voltage regulator...its basically in the same place as the 8KHA+...but its a different part by a different company. I found the spec sheet on it...but this unit has no feedback pin unlike the CS1101 on the 8KHA+. This has the N4300 by ON Semiconductor. Its an 8 pin chip in identical proportions to the CS1101. I'll have to study this a bit more

Randi

[majormav]

great work mr icee as usual ..... 3.22v is a fair old whack for mem though but if thats whats needed to unlock the secrets of the board then so be it .you know a damn site more than i , just wish i could have got the performance levels out of it like yu have.. but shes waiting patiently for a nice Tbred to go in .. keeping her ticking over nicely and reading this thread with great interest .

[mackanz]

If i understanded the few above posts right, you can set fast/ultra decode through wpcredit?
Now that is fantastic news for someone like me!!
For example, i cant boot at fast above 1750 and definatley not bench at it. Would a wpcredit tweak help me in that matter on the KX7, Randi?

Mac

[MrIcee]

Mick

If I can get my mem volts up...and get this thing to bench equal or close to a KX7...you KNOW I'll write a guide with all the tweaks and the mem mod I'm going to try to get all I can out of this board before I get my KX7 back.

Randi

[MrIcee]

Mac

If your KX7 won't boot at fast with it set in the bios...it will probably hard lock if you set it in WPCRedit...but you can try it.
The KX7's are are all diferent..or it may be the cpu's tolerence for the cpu comand decode settings..as its a cpu setting. My first KX7 with a 1.33 AYHJA T-bird aboard would run Ultra decode up to 194Mhz. But my following XP's would only go up to about 181-185Mhz on Ultra decode. Fast from there up.

What FSB are ou running at your CPU speeds Mac??

Randi

[mackanz]

On my xp 1600, i can run fast up to 9*183 but i can bench at 8.5*208 at normal which gives me more points and bandwidth.
This is the same story on both my xp 1600:s.
They can go just the same, even if they are 2 different steppings.
It´s weird, isn´t it?

Thanks!

Mac

[WinXP]

MrIcee

Try out the 2415 bios for this mobo as I get better results with it. I don't run 3d marks, but with PC Mark I get the best result with it.
PC Mark:http://service.madonion.com/compare?pcm=483985
1 stick of Mushkin PC3200

PC Mark:http://service.madonion.com/compare?pcm=484190
2 sticks Mushkin PC3200, Samsung PC2700 at 2.9v

[SKATAN]

Mricee

could you tell me what are the registers on abit kx7 for:


normal cpu comand decode

fast = = =

and

Ultra = = =

[MrIcee]

SKATAN

Not sure about Ultra as its not presented in WPCRedit...but normal and fast are. At Register 97 you need to change bit 1 : 0 =normal, 1 =Fast.

Nate

My benches were done with all my normal settings and tweaks, as used on every bench I do, at 1695Mhz or close to that as possible with the 8K3A+. You may not believe there is that much difference as I got...but thats the facts as realized on my system.
As you mentioned..you equaled my bench by running 50Mhz faster and 5Mhz FSB more...I evaluated at the same settings...thats the fair comparison. Of course if I run faster on the 8K3A+ i will get a closer score by maybe 100-200 points. But I run in the 1700Mhz and under class..so running faster is not an option.

I will still reiterate the 8K3A+ is a great board with overall stability and tweakabilty thats wonderful. I'd recommend this board to anyone.....but not to someone looking for top 3DMark scores. Epox engineers neutered its bandwidth for a reason..to make it stable for the average enthusiast. They don't even allow some register changes to be made(THE important bandwidth increasing ones)..it won't hold them..they revert back to Epox settings. Thats the telling indicator they've built in safeguards to prevent their boards from possible instabilities...even if it was done by an enthusiast attempting to make the board a King of bandwidth.

Randi

[N8]

Randi,

What I meant was, I found about 300pts in tweaks and whatnot that I did not know at the time that we compared. Now, my thinking is...that put me within 300 pts of your score. So....I ended up matching your score, but I needed 50MHz more on the CPU, and 5MHz more FSB to do so. This is actually irrelevant

I came within 300pts of your score at the same settings....all around. And I also half wonder if there aren't about 100pts more of my ignorance in there keeping me even further below ya What this means is, I think the KX7 might be 200-300pts faster than the 8K3A at these speeds.....TOPS!

If [N8](a relatively new bencher) w/ my inferior 8K3A, can bench within 300pts of MrIcee(a well-experienced bencher/tweaker) on his KX7 at equal settings, I would venture to say that(at or near our bench speeds, mind you) the KX7 is 300pts faster than the 8K3A TOPS...no more!

I hope I didn't come across wrong....merely my opinion. I' have another trick I've since thought of too that just might bump that score up some more...but I'm leaving for the beach this weekend, so I'm not sure when I'll be able to try it out. I anticipate another 50-100pts using it.....if it indeed works