RV775XT and PRO have 840 SP?

[ColonelCain]

As much as I would like for this to be true, I don't see this as being true. Reiterating what others have mentioned:

• The extra 40 shaders don't fit with their current cluster size. And, the Shader/TMU ratio would be of-set.
  In order to get those kinds of core clocks, they would have needed to go back, pick apart the architecture and try and optimize current leaks.
  512mb? If they really don't think that 1GB isn't very important, then why would they even bother creating an official 4870 1GB version?

Just a few quick points, but unfortunatly, I doubt this as truth.

[informal]

As much as I would like for this to be true, I don't see this as being true. Reiterating what others have mentioned:

• The extra 40 shaders don't fit with their current cluster size. And, the Shader/TMU ratio would be of-set.
  In order to get those kinds of core clocks, they would have needed to go back, pick apart the architecture and try and optimize current leaks.
  512mb? If they really don't think that 1GB isn't very important, then why would they even bother creating an official 4870 1GB version?

Just a few quick points, but unfortunatly, I doubt this as truth.

What about 960 stream/48TMU ? Ratio is fine .It could be an option for a 40nm shrink.
The above is just one very far fetched possibility since the die area didn't increase that much from the report we saw in OP.

[ColonelCain]

What about 960 stream/48TMU ? Ratio is fine .It could be an option for a 40nm shrink.
The above is just one very far fetched possibility since the die area didn't increase that much from the report we saw in OP.

True, but this would mean that RV870 is delayed, which wouldn't be a logical gamble for ATI. Risk GT200b beating a 40nm refresh, and have a longer wait to RV870 than if they forgo a refresh?
It WOULD however follow their "new strategy", that they announced awhile back. I think that it was around every 6 months alternating new arch/new refresh?

One thing that I found kind of interesting, concerning the redundancy debate, is that when you look at a die shot of Rv770 detailing the chips internals, there is possibility for their argument, at least as far as shaders go. If you look to the left of the "SIMD group", it looks almost like there are 4 extra shaders per group. X10, and we would get the extra 40. If you don't see it, look at the pattern.

[informal]

True, but this would mean that RV870 is delayed, which wouldn't be a logical gamble for ATI. Risk GT200b beating a 40nm refresh, and have a longer wait to RV870 than if they forgo a refresh?
It WOULD however follow their "new strategy", that they announced awhile back. I think that it was around every 6 months alternating new arch/new refresh?

One thing that I found kind of interesting, concerning the redundancy debate, is that when you look at a die shot of Rv770 detailing the chips internals, there is possibility for their argument, at least as far as shaders go. If you look to the left of the "SIMD group", it looks almost like there are 4 extra shaders per group. X10, and we would get the extra 40. If you don't see it, look at the pattern.

I think you are right,there seems to be 4 extra shaders per group.Now,if they can be active with the rest or can be used just for redundancy purposes is unknown atm.It would be nice if 840SP rumor is true,but honestly how much more perf. these 40 stream units can bring?20% more TMUs and higher core clocks on the other hand can be more effective.

[Voodoo²]

What about if they get rid of the tessellator? That could explain the decrease in transistors count too. Right?

[Stukov]

40nm and RV870 is simply too close. Or even in the case. 40nm Rv770 in Q2 if we assume no RV870. It just doesnt make sense to do any addons whatever. Plus the specs shown doesnt match anything. It looks to be some random forum posters wish as usual.

If AMD gonna do anything until 40nm. It would be a simple respin only for higher clocks. But even that...for a few months on the market?

Dear god, you agree with me. I am convinced the world is coming to an end.

[LordEC911]

I think you are right,there seems to be 4 extra shaders per group.Now,if they can be active with the rest or can be used just for redundancy purposes is unknown atm.It would be nice if 840SP rumor is true,but honestly how much more perf. these 40 stream units can bring?20% more TMUs and higher core clocks on the other hand can be more effective.

It's not... RV770 has only 800SP, just like G80 only had 128.

What about if they get rid of the tessellator? That could explain the decrease in transistors count too. Right?

Can't...

[Stukov]

True, but this would mean that RV870 is delayed, which wouldn't be a logical gamble for ATI. Risk GT200b beating a 40nm refresh, and have a longer wait to RV870 than if they forgo a refresh?
It WOULD however follow their "new strategy", that they announced awhile back. I think that it was around every 6 months alternating new arch/new refresh?

One thing that I found kind of interesting, concerning the redundancy debate, is that when you look at a die shot of Rv770 detailing the chips internals, there is possibility for their argument, at least as far as shaders go. If you look to the left of the "SIMD group", it looks almost like there are 4 extra shaders per group. X10, and we would get the extra 40. If you don't see it, look at the pattern.

The problem is, even if the RV870 is delayed and they are going to the 'tick/tock' model of releasing products there is still an issue with inventory. I think there are still plenty of RV7xx generation boards out on the market with a good amount of supply. To release a new chip would certainly be canniblelistic on their already created chips. Then, by the time you get a good supply for this 'new' chip, the RV870 should be out, again running into problems with inventory and the like.

I don't see any reason AMD would NEED to have something until the RV870. Their chips are smaller and cards are cheaper to make. If Nvidia comes out of the blocs, AMD will just throw a price war at them. Then just make a splash for the RV870.

[hurleybird]

What about if they get rid of the tessellator? That could explain the decrease in transistors count too. Right?

It could, but I hope they didn't, since there might be some use for it in DX11 titles. If you ask me, enabling disabled "repair" units, getting rid of sideport, and some general tweaking should be enough to make the transistor count plausible. Not nearly as drastic as G70 -> G71 at least. 512MB looks suspicious, but if anything means that ATI is thinking of launching 512MB cards along with the 1024MB cards. Changing the ALU:TEX ratio makes sense since R600/R700 is a little lopsided towards shading power anyway. I don't have a problem reconciling the clock speed increase seeing as NVIDIA's 1.4 Billion Transistor chip built on a larger process gets better clockspeed/watt so there are probably some architectural problems that would be a priority for ATI to fix in both RV775 and RV880. Overall, I think the specs look credible, but as we know with ATI rumors whether or not something looks credible doesn't always mean a whole lot.

[Shintai]

What about if they get rid of the tessellator? That could explain the decrease in transistors count too. Right?

Please dont try and curve this faked news into something so it fits some hopes. We already have enough hype.

Shader amount doesnt mix, transistor count doesnt mix, clock and process node doesnt mix. Shader/TMU ratio doesnt mix. Even memory doesnt mix.

Is there even anything that do mix?

[Macadamia]

LOL @ RV870 Q4 09.


I love ATI PR.

[spursindonesia]

Well, 800 SP and 40 TMU chip with 260 mm^2 die size didn't exactly mix quite well too, but look who had to eat his hat saying nVidia would rule the market unchallenged in 2008.

[NH|Delph1]

There is talk about one card before lil' dragon but it's not this one from what I can tell.

Fudzilla is not far from the truth with its 40nm story.

//Andreas

[marten_larsson]

There is talk about one card before lil' dragon but it's not this one from what I can tell.

Fudzilla is not far from the truth with its 40nm story.

//Andreas

What else have you heard? I've been watching NH and it seems like you guys have quite good intel (not the semiconductor company) on AMD/ATI products. Is the RV740 (that's what you guys called it back in July) going to be big upgrade from RV770? By looking at the name it shouldn't be? Is it going to be a mainstream product (around 4670 performance)?

[clonez]

afaik mainstream, between hd4670 and hd4830

pure volume product and small die size
ideal to test 40nm process on

[NH|Delph1]

What else have you heard? I've been watching NH and it seems like you guys have quite good intel (not the semiconductor company) on AMD/ATI products. Is the RV740 (that's what you guys called it back in July) going to be big upgrade from RV770? By looking at the name it shouldn't be? Is it going to be a mainstream product (around 4670 performance)?

Update coming, I just want to confirm things. If I posted every little tip I get I would end up with a bruised reputation and have about as much credibility as ... well some other sites posting information on pre-released products

//Andreas

[Helmore]

Then maybe you should create a NordicHardware rumor mill where all sorts of rumors end up. Would be fun to see what the imagination of some can be like .

[NH|Delph1]

Then maybe you should create a NordicHardware rumor mill where all sorts of rumors end up. Would be fun to see what the imagination of some can be like .

No Rumor mill coming but I have a different solution that should do about the same thing

//Andreas

[Mr.BSEL]

According to ATIforum, there won't be a 55nm refresh of the rv770. Fudzilla also has this news posted as well.

http://translate.google.com/translat...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[informal]

Yeah Fudo picked it up too.It is quite logical that the next refresh of RV770 will be done on 40nm process.

[Face]

.. http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...oming-soon-ish

[Slovnaft]

ugh, i was hoping make a nice christmas present of RV870.

[RPGWiZaRD]

ugh, i was hoping make a nice christmas present of RV870.

Umm, RV870 is the next gen series with DX11 support not the refresh they're talking about. Don't hope it's true that they're aiming RV870 for as late as Q4 2009, that seems like too far away but it wouldn't be very suprising with ATI/AMD. Nvidia's cards aimed for "back-to-the-school-timeframe" I'm pretty sure of though so they'll prolly have some month's advantage. It's the INQ tho so I won't put too much trust in that article but if Q4 is the real target for next gen then it would make sense with a RV775 refresh in like February-April timeframe. Oh well let the cards arrive when they do, no need to speculate.

[Helmore]

Umm, RV870 is the next gen series with DX11 support not the refresh they're talking about. Don't hope it's true that they're aiming RV870 for as late as Q4 2009, that seems like too far away but it wouldn't be very suprising with ATI/AMD. With Nvidia's cards aimed for "back-to-the-school-timeframe" I'm pretty sure of. It's the INQ tho so I won't put too much trust in that article but if Q4 is the real target for next gen then it would make sense with a RV775 refresh in like February-April timeframe. Oh well let the card

I think we will be getting a refresh, but probably the refresh will be a little later and will be made on TSMC's 40 nm. process. Just my guess though, but I think it's pretty accurate.

[zanzabar]

Umm, RV870 is the next gen series with DX11 support not the refresh they're talking about. Don't hope it's true that they're aiming RV870 for as late as Q4 2009, that seems like too far away but it wouldn't be very suprising with ATI/AMD. Nvidia's cards aimed for "back-to-the-school-timeframe" I'm pretty sure of though so they'll prolly have some month's advantage. It's the INQ tho so I won't put too much trust in that article but if Q4 is the real target for next gen then it would make sense with a RV775 refresh in like February-April timeframe. Oh well let the cards arrive when they do, no need to speculate.

dx11 is working on the 3xxx and 4xxx with win7 right now, u just need a fully programmable shader (or driver or bios, forgot how NV dose theirs something with drivers and cuda but ati is software fully programmable), and it has support for an options teslation engine that ati has as they are fully dx10.1

then the other part the r600, rv670 and rv770 were all scheduled for late q3/q4 and depending on how the dev cycle went they were out early or late so its up for grabs what the real time frame is