SSD Write Endurance 25nm Vs 34nm

[johnw]

I found this dialog up when I checked this afternoon:



Here is how the ASU stat screen looked at that time:



As I found the system above, the Samsung drive was completely unresponsive. I could not even read the SMART parameters or view any files with Windows explorer. I tried rebooting, and the BIOS did not even see the SSD. Then I powered down for a minute, and when I powered back up the BIOS could see the Samsung, and Windows could also see it. I was able to read the SMART parameters:



I was able to verify the MD5 checksum for the ~40GB static data file, and it was fine. Also, ASU never detected any MD5 errors. So it seems the data has been, and continues to be intact on the SSD.

I tried running AS-SSD and it actually managed to write a little to the SSD, but then it locked up. I killed it with Task Manager, but the SSD was unresponsive to anything again, not even reading SMART parms.



I tried to shutdown but windows locked up at "shutting down" message and I had to cut the power. When I powered back up, the Samsung was again responding to reads and SMART parm queries, and it could even write a little bit but very slowly and most writes were failing I think:



Note that the first ASU screenshot shows 478.037 TiB, but the second one shows 477.212 TiB. I think the first one is correct. The second one is lower because I don't think ASU was able to save the last bit of writes when it quit the first time, so the second time when it loaded the writes it was missing some of them.

So that 478.037 TiB comes to 525.607 TB (I prefer TB to TiB). That is equal to 8212 times writing the 64GB capacity of the drive. Which is equivalent to writing the entire 64GB capacity of the drive, every day, for 22 years. Or to writing 287GB every day for 5 years.

[johnw]

Anyone have any ideas on anything else I should try with the Samsung 470? Keep in mind that Windows seems to be unstable when the Samsung is connected now when any program tries to write to the Samsung -- freezes and lockups. But it seems fine as long as there are only read requests sent to the Samsung.

My plan is to keep the drive unpowered now, and plug it in periodically (every few weeks or once a month) and try to verify the MD5 checksum on the 40GB static data file.

[Vapor]

I wonder if the freezer trick works at all for SSDs

Shocked the death was so sudden too...and before SA178 was depleted. It's all extremely interesting

(of note, I also had the ASU log for my C300 'cropped' when I cut power)

EDIT: guess I'll do a special edition of the charts tonight (wasn't planning on it) in honor of the first successful SSD death

EDIT2: also of note, the Intel 320 40GB with 'worse' 25nm NAND has done more normalized writes than the Samsung 470 did in its lifetime. Normalized writes scale ~1.09:1 with P/E cycles, assuming 1.00x WA. This is some minor evidence supporting the apparent WA of ~5.11x of the 470. In addition, Intel 320 reallocations are over a magnitude lower (and started much, much earlier). Of course, the Intel 320 also has parity, the NAND isn't the same, the sample size is very small, etc., so this is hardly hard evidence of the >5x WA, but it is some soft evidence.

[Computurd]

amazing, good show! your efforts and coin are appreciated, she was a good SSD, one that we will all remember fondly!

and that would be the one with the worst WA (is that still a valid comment? what would the WA work out to be in the end?)
if it is 5 then others could be in for a lonnnngggg haul

EDIT: seen ^^ post above...dont know how i missed that. wow!

[lowfat]

Nice to see some good action finally.

[devsk]

Yeah baby! Some action finally! Samsung has proved to be a worthy SSD! I am extremely pleased with the fact that you can read the file and verify checksum. So, it works the way SSDs were advertised to work. Of course, 500+TB of data written to 64GB, that's a lot for me! And written at a pretty good speed of 100+MB/s. Hats off!

[bluestang]

@johnw...thanks for your hard work
Can't wait to see ho is next

[johnw]

Samsung has proved to be a worthy SSD!

Yup, it has earned its retirement. It will get a place in a comfy drawer, and still be invited out for a little entertainment once a month!

[Vapor]

Charts Updated

All bar charts are sorted by their respective equivalent of Writes So Far.

Host Writes So Far






Normalized Writes So Far
The SSDs are not all the same size, these charts normalize for available NAND capacity.






Write Days So Far
Not all SSDs write at the same speed, these charts factor out write speeds and look at endurance as a function of time.






Host Writes vs. NAND Writes and Write Amplication
Based on reported or calculated NAND cycles from wear SMART values divided by total writes.

[Vapor]

The scary thing for the rest of us is if all our drives have the same lifetime : MWI endurance ratio.

478TiB : 59.5TiB is roughly an 8:1 ratio

No other drive is even at a 2:1 ratio...and neither of the oldest (Intel) drives are past 5:3 ratios yet.

[johnw]

The scary thing for the rest of us is if all our drives have the same lifetime : MWI endurance ratio.

Looks like you may have a very long graphing job ahead of you! Maybe you will be done before 2013!

[Vapor]

Looks like you may have a very long graphing job ahead of you! Maybe you will be done before 2013!

Hah, poor Anvil too if the X25-V goes for 8:1....that's 432 days from now.

[SynbiosVyse]

05: 0
B1: 24
E7: 81%
E9: 34560
EA/F1: 51456
F2: 64

173.16 hours
58.66 MB/s avg
MD5 Ok

Stopping and switching to 0-Fill.

[DragoonXX]

I feel in some sense that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19yjo...eature=related is suitable for this situation
(taps)

[Ao1]

....Stopping and switching to 0-Fill.

Hi SynbiosVyse, this is a retail drive? If it is then it would appear that not all SF drives are set for life time throttle after all, which is contrary to claims made by OCZ.

If you switch to 0 fill you will not see a drop in write speeds if LTT kicks in. With 100% incompressible you will see the full impact of LTT; if it is activated.

[Ao1]

Yup, it has earned its retirement. It will get a place in a comfy drawer, and still be invited out for a little entertainment once a month!

Great job John, thanks for all the hard work. This is the first reported case I have seen of P/E cycles running out. It will be interesting to see how long the data can be retained.

EDIT:

Any firmware updates during that time?

I don't think so, but I can't exclude that.

[B.A.T]

R.I.P Samsung 470. You did a good job.

I'll be home again tomorrow afternoon and bring you more update from the m4.
And finally the Kingston v+ 100 has arrived and will be put into the test after I figure out how to run anvil app on 2 drives at the same time. Any ideas how to do that?

[[XC] Oj101]

I wish I had a spare SSD to donate to the cause

[Anvil]

Anyone have any ideas on anything else I should try with the Samsung 470? Keep in mind that Windows seems to be unstable when the Samsung is connected now when any program tries to write to the Samsung -- freezes and lockups. But it seems fine as long as there are only read requests sent to the Samsung.

My plan is to keep the drive unpowered now, and plug it in periodically (every few weeks or once a month) and try to verify the MD5 checksum on the 40GB static data file.

Not without sacrificing the 40GB static file, I think you should use the file for periodic tests though.
So, let it rest, it has performed admirably well.
My Samsungs have been promoted and are now running as boot drives

I wonder if the freezer trick works at all for SSDs

Shocked the death was so sudden too...and before SA178 was depleted. It's all extremely interesting

(of note, I also had the ASU log for my C300 'cropped' when I cut power)

I highly doubt the freeze trick will work , would be cool if it did though.
(as long as the data is readable it doesn't really matter vs HDDs)

The log can be recalculated I'm planning on making it an option.

Hah, poor Anvil too if the X25-V goes for 8:1....that's 432 days from now.

, I'm prepared for that outcome, it might wear out my pc though.

I haven't decided on what drive to test next, was thinking on one with a somewhat larger capacity (80-120GB)

I'm awaiting what happens to SymbiosVyse's drive as I've got a hunch that they might not be using throttling.
It should have started to make an impact by now if it had that option enabled.

[Vapor]

Stopping and switching to 0-Fill.

Why are you switching to 0-fill?

As Ao1 said, that setting (8%, too) will mask any throttling and NAND write speeds will likely drop, delaying the onset of LTT. Though, each day that passes makes it seem more and more like LTT isn't present at all.

0-fill is also completely unrealistic as a workload, but that's a separate issue.

And finally the Kingston v+ 100 has arrived and will be put into the test after I figure out how to run anvil app on 2 drives at the same time. Any ideas how to do that?

Nothing special needed. Just put the .exe on both drives and run them both...no need to change filename or anything like that

[B.A.T]

Thank you

I'll just do that then.

[Anvil]

250.38TB Host writes
Reallocated sectors : 6
MD5 OK

[Vapor]

C300 Update

240.143TiB host writes, 19 MWI, 4055 raw wear indicator, 2048/1 reallocations, 63.05MiB/sec (still creeping upward...), MD5 OK


SF-1200 nLTT Update

112.938TiB host writes, 76.469TiB NAND writes, 64 MWI, 1223.5 raw wear (equiv), wear range delta 3 (still), 56.5MiB/sec (still creeping upward...), MD5 OK

[Anvil]

252.40TB Host writes
Reallocated sectors : 6
MD5 OK

34.78MiB/s on avg (~17 hours)

[bluestang]

M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB Update:

124.02 TiB
489.2 hours
MWI 35 (drops by 1 for every 50 raw wear)
3268 Raw Wear
110.54 MB/s avg for the last 63.28 hours (on W7 x64)
MD5 OK
C4-Erase Failure Block Count(Realloc Sectors) from 1 to 2 (Bank 6/Block 2406; Bank 3/Block 3925)