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Thread: New TIM King, Ahab usurped by the SilVer sword.

  1. #1
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    Talking New TIM King, Ahab usurped by the SilVer sword.

    I've just completed testing Nanotherm's PCM+ against a "new formula" from Arctic Silver. At this point I cannot divuldge it's name, nor can I even tell you exact date of release, except to say SOON. I can say while you may want to logically call it AS4, it's good enough to skip the "4" designation. You'll learn more about the semantic's of it's name a later date. After three weeks of back to back testing, "AS_" attains a solid -2C to -5C temperature differential below that of PCM+, but what's really fascinating are the overclocking results. At higher vcore and higher FSB (1.6V ~ 230FSB & 1.65V ~ 250FSB) the Arctic Silver maintains a constant -5C differential. But what may be even more interesting, are the results after weeks of overcloking with PCM+.

    After approximately six weeks of constant overclocked / overvolted conditions, I'm finding a definitive detreioration in performance with PCM+ (see pic below). Where I'd thought the Arctic Silver forumla increased in it's ability to cool at higher temps, it's actually maintaning it's formulaic integrity. Whereas PCM+ was breaking down. I acquired a 2.8C which I had a hard time overclocking. I thought it was a poor overclocker, so I was pumping the vcore's above into it. Truth of the matter is, the NB on my IS7-E has had no HSF for six weeks. I therefpre believe I've precipitated an effect I'm researching in a more in-depth article exploring long-term ramifications of PCM+. The precursor to that article can be found HERE.

    I purport PCM+ is (with the introduction of AS4?) the second best TIM on the market, however; one must consider the qualitative, quantitative dictates for it's safe use. I believe PCM+ should ONLY be recommended for short-term use, and perhaps only for Overclockers or Enthusiasts. In addtition the Case environment (venting, volts, Pelt., etc.) should also be considered. If utilized in an overclocked environment, with higher voltages I'd suggest re-application after 40-days maximum, and 90-days under normal usage. If a Peltier is used, I presume the time will be reduced further. I'm testing this theory, using the Swiftech MCX4000-Tec with 226W Peltier. I'll share the initial results of this test by next week.

    Partial basis for my theory is simple. As PCM+ is a liquid, designed to transfer heat through "phase-change/s," it therefore must change from a liquid to gas (vaporization > evaporation) in the conduction of the heat. Since the area between heatsink, and processor surface is not air-tight, this is akin to a pot of boiling water, with a flat lid held on by a weight. Since that lid is not completely sealed, then some steam will evaporate, and condense, where it naturally seeks colder material (hence the pattern in the pic below where the PCM+ has coagulated at the edges is not simply the result of initial heatsink pressure forcing it outwards). Since the area between heatsink, and processor surface is not an air-tight seal, it may not be the appropriate environment for repeated phase-change. Inevitably, I beleive the TIM will dry from it's circumference inward, and that's the best case scenario

    I want to state briefly, there are those here who know I've had some negative dealing's with Nanotherm, this is not my primary motivation for investigating the anomally. And while I am dissapointed in the professional malfeasance, and their exiguous intergrity, I cannot conclusively state the PCM+ suffer's from the same lack of integrity. If one investigates the timeline of the culmination of my negative experiences leading to a my deleted post in the Random Topic section, and my doubts about the formulaic integrity of PCM+ beginning with this post. Then any attempt to claim my motivation is purely personal are rendered moot. In the past a post pertaining to Nanotherm, was slightly controversial, and I made the mistake of having it deleted. I recieved a threatening email from the owner of the company a day later, and just as my criticisms in that post accused him of not bothering to read emails, he hadn't bothered to read the post. Someone actually called the owner and reiterated the gist of the post, shortly thereafter. Reflecting back, I believe this may bring into question the objectivity of the site. What if you/anyone were to write a post about GeiL, or their products, reiterating actual events. A moderator then contacts GeiL revealing what you had written, and GeiL then fire's off a threatenting email to you (a copy of this letter can be found at my site in my revised PCM+ article). Could this not be misconstrued as a lack of objectivity, reflecting upon the site? It may also indicate loyalties lie not with the readership who ultimately support the site, but with potential future advertiser's, or companies who give them stuff. Wouldn't such behavior deter other's from sharing their true experiences? Isn't it selling out? I almost made the same mistake, luckily they were so greedy, and unwilling to take any responsibility, they even mentioned their vacant aplogy to me was at their "expense."

    Regardless, hail to the goodly King, soon you too shall reap the benefits of his noble TIM.
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  2. #2
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    I was wondering about that.. found an odd discolored spot right smack in the center of my 2000+ when I pulled my old heatsink off to put the SLK-900U on..

    Temps never changed between the initial application and from when I removed the heatsink, btw, but that was only about 30 days max..

    Oh well, ambient/idle/load temps have been completed with the PCM+ now.. time to change and compare to some other stuff 8-)

    (For those interested: 34c idle, 40c load @ 20c ambient, 2000+ @ 2480mhz 2.0v - SLK-900U with dual 60mm fan mod).

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    Liquid3D how do you think this new "AS4" will work with sub zero temps ???
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  4. #4
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    O look what I found .........

    Arctic Silver 5 info!!!!!
    New arctic silver info !
    Once again, our research efforts have proven successful and a new and better Arctic Silver is ready.

    We will release Arctic Silver 5 on October 20, 2003.
    AS5 is the second product in our new generation of high-density thermal compounds and has several significant advantages over our previous silver compounds.

    The polysynthetic suspension fluid is improved.
    The new mix of non-silicone synthetic oils is more stable than the mix used in Arctic Silver 3. This further enhances the long-term performance of Arctic Silver 5, especially under high-vibration or other difficult conditions.

    The average particle size is smaller. (Less than 0.45 microns <0.000018 inch)
    The microscopic thermally conductive particles in Arctic Silver 5 fill the voids between the core and the heatsink more completely to provide improved thermal transfer.

    The compound is more dense.
    The sizes of the individual filler particles are designed so that the smaller particles better fill the interstices between the larger particles than with our previous compounds. While most thermal compounds contain 30% to 50% thermally conductive filler by weight, Arctic Silver 5 contains almost 90% thermally conductive filler by weight.

    The application is easier.
    Like Ceramique, Arctic Silver 5 is not spread out on the P4 heat spreader. A small dab of AS5 is placed on the center of the heat spreader and the pressure from the heatsink spreads it out to form an air-free minimum bond line.
    You can see the Ceramique instructions here: http://www.arcticsilver.com/ceramique_instructions.htm

    And most important, the performance is much better.

    Retail Arctic Silver 5 will be available in two sizes, a 3.5 gram tube and a 12 gram tube (3cc). The 3.5 gram tube will come in a grey colored version of our Ceramique syringe. This syringe is specifically designed for high-density thermal compounds and features a very smooth and easy to use action that aids in dispensing and application. The grey color and silver label will distinguish it from Ceramique's white syringe and label. The 12 gram tube will come in a 5cc luer slip type medical syringe with approximately 3cc of compound.

    The suggested U.S. retail price for Arctic Silver 5 is $7.95 for the 3.5 gram tube and $19.95 for the 12 gram tube (3cc)
    Last edited by PMM; 09-29-2003 at 11:47 AM.
    New specs to appear here >.< sometime soon.
    in the mean time i'm using me shuttle
    tis fast enough for now.....
    <doh in me dream tis slow> no vmod / no PSU mods / no phasechange how can it be fast

  5. #5
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    are you testing the "as 5" on tecs as well? ill build my tec waterchiller next week and am still not sure what paste i should use.

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    can't wait to try out this AS5
    Coming Soon!!!!

  7. #7
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    lol@as5

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    Re: New TIM King, Ahab usurped by the SilVer sword.

    Originally posted by Liquid3D
    I've just completed testing Nanotherm's PCM+ against a "new formula" from Arctic Silver. At this point I cannot divuldge it's name, nor can I even tell you exact date of release, except to say SOON. I can say while you may want to logically call it AS4, it's good enough to skip the "4" designation. You'll learn more about the semantic's of it's name a later date.
    The info about the AS5 is around the net for some time - I don't know why are you hiding it so much....
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  9. #9
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    I got some today

    OPP
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  10. #10
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    Synthetic oils.. I forgot about that.. 8-)

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  11. #11
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    Originally posted by OPPAINTER
    I got some today

    OPP
    Nice, any results yet?
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  12. #12
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    Nice OPP!

    Is that a sample, or is it actually available retail? I'm going to be redoing my setup in a few days, so I might as well use AS5 if it's out.

  13. #13
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    This just came today as a sample, not sure where to get it yet.
    No havn't tryed it yet.



    OPP

  14. #14
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    damn opp, you got the hook-ups..

    they just skipped as4 huh?
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  15. #15
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    Originally posted by taco
    damn opp, you got the hook-ups..

    Yea I wish AMD would hook me up

    OPP

  16. #16
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    not tested for sub zero? so should i use ceramique for my tec chiller?

  17. #17
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    thx opp!

    a number? like for what temps it is tested?

    i wont go lower than -20°C i guess... 400W tec power to cool my cpu,nb and gpu... what kinda temps should i expect? and what paste should i use?

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by saaya
    thx opp!

    a number? like for what temps it is tested?

    i wont go lower than -20°C i guess... 400W tec power to cool my cpu,nb and gpu... what kinda temps should i expect? and what paste should i use?
    I'm as confused as you
    AS wasn't ready to make an official statment so the stuff I posted is down the road

    But I did just ask them what I should use for sub-0

    OPP

  19. #19
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    I agree with you L3D about the drying out. I have noticed this also with Carbon Black which is also a liquid type of application. It would appear that at least some future applications would be called for. I think AS5 is on to a good compromise of spreadablility vs. longevity.
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  20. #20
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    I hope it performs better than this AS5 sample:

    http://www.legitreviews.com/Reviews/asvsnano_2.shtml
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  21. #21
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    Not sure if I buy that test ?!? Only useing 15 seconds to find the max HS temp?? Sorry even running Sandra or Prime 95 mine takes almost 10 minuets to get to it's peak temp.

    Not only that I have seen AS3 take up to 48 hours to realy start to show good temps due to the "leveling" that needs to take place to get a good even layer.

  22. #22
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    isn't this the same halabalu crap we hear every time a new thermal paste is released?

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by Major Slaughter
    Liquid3D how do you think this new "AS4" will work with sub zero temps ???
    Sorry about the late reply, yes I beleive it will be perfect for Extreme Low temps, and even more so then it's prior version. I'll find out more for you. As my Prometeia is not working I haven't been able to test it.

    BTW TodB because I had the sample quite while ago. And when I give my word, I keep it. Until it's on Arctic Silver's site, I would not divuldge such information. When given the priviledge of testing a product from such an established company, I wouldn't abuse it. Other's can do what they like.
    Last edited by Liquid3D; 09-30-2003 at 09:13 AM.
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