dual D5 setup

Tomder · 11-17-2009, 09:01 AM

hi,

I'm thinking about running a dual D5 setup. Either parallel or serial setup. Anyone of you ever tried it?

I'm not sure which setup is best, serial og parallel, or if it will cause too much turbulence in my reservoir.

Tom

Sadasius · 11-17-2009, 09:26 AM

Yeah got a dual D5 setup running serial in one loop now. Runs great! What do you need to know?

EDIT: Here I will throw in a pic if you want to view how it went! It's an older pic (have black hoses plus a bunch of mods since this).

Tomder · 11-17-2009, 09:39 AM

My main concern is about the turbulence in my reservoir. Right now I'm running a single D5 +EK Xtop V2 and a EK bay spin res.

Also, what would give best performance, 2 pumps in parallel, or in serial connection ?

Right after I created this thread I noticed the thread about dual D5 tops, and that EK just har released one. So perhaps this is the better way to go. instead of 2 D5s plus 2 EK Xtop V2.

Sadasius · 11-17-2009, 09:54 AM

Yeah EK with their new double top is awesome. Don't know the performance numbers yet but I am sure it will be good enough. Besides the ease of use alone is practically worth it. Never ran my loop parallel so I don't know. Only had it in serial. The turbulence in a res really does not matter once you have fully bled the system. Also I am running DetroitAC tops. Not EK's!

BrokenArrow · 11-17-2009, 09:57 AM

Pumps in series double the pump pressure.

Pumps in parallel double the flow.

Depends on what you need and how restrictive your system is.

Tomder · 11-17-2009, 10:32 AM

The dual setup is intended for use with an EK Supreme, Dtek Fuzion GPU, and EK blocks for all that needs cooling on an Asus P5E-Deluxe :-)
So I guess that a serial pump setup is what works best for me :-)

BrokenArrow · 11-17-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomder

The dual setup is intended for use with an EK Supreme, Dtek Fuzion GPU, and EK blocks for all that needs cooling on an Asus P5E-Deluxe :-)
So I guess that a serial pump setup is what works best for me :-)

Yes, most people benefit mostly from series configuration, especially with those named components.

Tomder · 11-17-2009, 10:48 AM

Then the question is:
Buy another EK Xtop V2 = cheap, or buy the new D5 dual top = expensive :-)

BrokenArrow · 11-17-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomder

Then the question is:
Buy another EK Xtop V2 = cheap, or buy the new D5 dual top = expensive :-)

I personally like two separate pumps with their own tops. More flexibility in locating them in a build.

DeathWalking · 11-17-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomder

Then the question is:
Buy another EK Xtop V2 = cheap, or buy the new D5 dual top = expensive :-)

Depends on how Xtreme you want to be. Getting another x-top and running them in series will probably give you close to the same performance as the dual top. If you want to go all out, then get the dual top. If you want some very good performance for slightly cheaper, get the second x-top.

eth0s · 11-17-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomder

I'm not sure which setup is best, serial og parallel, or if it will cause too much turbulence in my reservoir.

Turbulence in the reservoir? If you start seeing frothing bubbles in the reservoir, that is not turbulence, that is cavitation in the pumps. This is something to watch out for, and to avoid, when adding dual pumps in series. If the flow rate through the system exceeds the amount of flow the pump can handle at its intake, then you will have cavitation in that pump, and the water will start to "boil" in the pump, and it will be audibly noisy and the water in the reservoir will "churn". I have seen some postings lauding this phenomenon, when it should be loathed. You do not want cavitation as it destroys your pump, and you are doing well to be worried about it. I have seen two DDC pumps in series cause cavitation, but I have not seen two D5's in series do it. The D5 seems to be able to operate with lower intake pressure (higher flow) than the DDC, at least that is my experience.

BrokenArrow · 11-17-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathWalking

Depends on how Xtreme you want to be. Getting another x-top and running them in series will probably give you close to the same performance as the dual top. If you want to go all out, then get the dual top. If you want some very good performance for slightly cheaper, get the second x-top.

I would beg to differ that the combo top would produce better results than two separate pumps.

With the dual top, the outlet water from the first pump must make a hard 90° turn as the inlet to the second pump. This would restrict the suction side of the second pump and could hurt performance slightly. Until we see some testing, I would like to think the separate pumps may perform better.

The dual top is convenient though if space is of concern.

DeathWalking · 11-17-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrokenArrow

I would beg to differ that the combo top would produce better results than two separate pumps.

With the dual top, the outlet water from the first pump must make a hard 90° turn as the inlet to the second pump. This would restrict the suction side of the second pump and could hurt performance slightly. Until we see some testing, I would like to think the separate pumps may perform better.

The dual top is convenient though if space is of concern.

This is for the 3.2 top, not the D5 top, but I can think of little reason why the same thing couldn't apply. Pressure is more than double the single top on the dual.

Sadasius · 11-17-2009, 09:19 PM

Nah it would be about the same thing. 2 separate tops or one double top in series. One with more flexibility and one out of convenience. The double top is convenient because it takes less connectors on a budget build as well as less tube. The 2 separate tops can be placed in different locations or hooked up in separate locations in the loop for flexibility but requires a couple more connectors and extra tubing. The picture your showing is one pump vs two and is not what we are talking about. It's two vs two either separated or together in series.

Tomder · 11-18-2009, 08:16 AM

I think I'm gonna go with the cheap solution and just get another Xtop. Then there's money to buy a better radiator :-)

DeathWalking · 11-18-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadasius

Nah it would be about the same thing. 2 separate tops or one double top in series.

How can you say this? "Oh, I'm looking at some data, but that won't be applicable here." What?

BrokenArrow · 11-18-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathWalking

How can you say this? "Oh, I'm looking at some data, but that won't be applicable here." What?

I still maintain that the three additional 90° turns before the inlet to the second pump must reduce some performance a little with a dual top.

DeathWalking · 11-18-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrokenArrow

I still maintain that the three additional 90° turns before the inlet to the second pump must reduce some performance a little with a dual top.

I agree this makes intuitive sense. That's not the point here...we're not talking ways to improve the DDC top. I'm just a little incredulous that Sadasius just ignored the graph in favor of what seems to be personal opinion. I'm hoping he has inside info as to why he's right.

Sadasius · 11-19-2009, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathWalking

How can you say this? "Oh, I'm looking at some data, but that won't be applicable here." What?

Perhaps we are miss communicating here. I will re read the test your talking about as I am trying to understand the point your making.

***EDIT***

Okay I still don't understand the point your making. So I will further explain the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make is that the dual top for the D5 here will be similar to 2 single tops on the D5 hooked up in series along the same loop. The chart your looking at was a comparison of the dual DDC top vs a single DDC top which does show the double performance for the dual top which basically helps out what I am saying but in the test there is nothing about 2 single tops in series. Here is skinnee's statement directly from the test:

Quote:

Wrap-up

There ya have it, XSPC is bringing a restriction busting monster to market very soon. I have not heard nor want to speculate on the price you will see once the top starts hitting retailers, but knowing XSPC this will be priced very competitively It is true, the logged data is showing some major Total Dynamic Head gains over a single DDC and I for one did not expect anywhere near the performance scaling. I expected to see a 30-40% TDH gain at the sweet spot of 1.5GPM (roughly 340LPH), but we're seeing a 2x factor here. Yes, 5.31PSI to 10.87PSI. I will state again, I haven't looped up 2 single XSPC V3 Tops in serial yet due to my DC Power Supply problem and not being able to safely measure current draw while testing. Don't fret though, in time I will have the gear required to log current along with voltage to complete the normal tests.

Two things you should really take away from the preview here... One being the scaling of pressure when you run two DDC's in serial, its certainly a larger scale factor than what I anticipated. When you put two pumps in series, you're boosting the PQ curve way up (as seen in the charts above), the restriction of your loop or pressure drop moves further along the X or flow axis...translating into a higher flow rate for your loop. And two, you don't have to get two XSPC standard tops and loop them together with a tube bridge, XSPC brings a top that has inlet and outlet on the same plane and tries to keep the footprint as small as possible.

If you've been like me and on the fence about throwing a bit of caution into the wind with your pumping, quit wasting time and try dual DDC's. The XSPC Dual DDC top certainly opened my eyes to something I was missing out on. Also, interested as to how your blocks are going to perform thanks to the extra shot in the arm? Check out Vapor's extensive look at flow rate scaling compared to block performance. XSPC's Dual DDC beast will be coming to a loop near you very soon!

So I apologize beforehand if I am still not understanding your point. Believe me I am trying...

DeathWalking · 11-19-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadasius

Perhaps we are mis-communicating here. I will re read the test your talking about as I am trying to understand the point your making.

***EDIT***

Okay I still don't understand the point your making. So I will further explain the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make is that the dual top for the D5 here will be similar to 2 single tops on the D5 hooked up in series along the same loop. The chart your looking at was a comparison of the dual DDC top vs a single DDC top which does show the double performance for the dual top which basically helps out what I am saying but in the test there is nothing about 2 single tops in series. Here is skinnee's statement directly from the test:

So I apologize beforehand if I am still not understanding your point. Believe me I am trying...

Ah, I see what you're saying...yea, that's an interesting point, I hadn't considered that. I assumed two pumps in series max head was max head for pump 1 + max head for pump 2, but I see now that there's no guarantee of that. I guess I'm spoiled from using Martin's spreadsheet, which used that estimation method. Skinnee, mind testing this?

Sadasius · 11-20-2009, 01:50 AM

Yeah it's one of the last areas for testing the dual pump. For example my pumps are in serial but at opposite ends of the same loop. One pump pushes through the blocks and the second pump takes that and pushes through the rads and into the res. So is it the same head pressure when having both right after each other or at the opposite ends of the same loop? That is the key question and in my mind I don't think there is much difference but then again I have been proven wrong a couple times. Mostly by Vapor...*waves fist at Vapor*.