Cooling question

Detale · 11-16-2009, 11:21 PM

Hello guys. I have a question about what I should loop together on a dual loop system. Here are my specs:

Corsair Obsidian 800D
2 x Swiftech MCP350 pumps
1 x Black Ice Pro 120mm Radiator
1 X Black Ice GT Stealth 360 Radiator
1 x XSPC Dual 5.25" Bay Res
1 x EK Northbridge Block
Swiftech MCW60 GPU block

HW specs:

Q9550, Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R, and an EVGA GTX 260

So What do you think I should loop together? honestly I can't figure out which would be better. As of now i think the CPU and NB should go together, but I'm not sure. I have been reading that water cooling the NB may not matter with this board and that it getting hot doesn't affect it's performance at all. I do want to try and WC the CPU, NB and Vid card. Ideas, opinions?

Gomnadz · 11-17-2009, 12:13 AM

I'm still a noob to WC but you should be able to do CPU and GPU in one loop with the 360 rad and maybe the NB on the 120 rad.
or
you can try the CPU, GPU and NB on one loop with just the 360 and if you don't like it you can add the 120 in there..... I'm sure someone else with more knowledge will pitch in.

SNiiPE_DoGG · 11-17-2009, 12:17 AM

as long as you have solid high speed fans - or push pull medium speed fans got the GTS rad go ahead and throw it all in one loop

jim0ne · 11-17-2009, 06:35 AM

^^^ +1. I agree with sniipe. You will be fine with one loop.

Detale · 11-17-2009, 09:05 AM

Thanks so much for the input guys. Honestly I reeeeealy want two loops though.

SNiiPE_DoGG · 11-17-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detale

Thanks so much for the input guys. Honestly I reeeeealy want two loops though.

the extra tubing length involved in a dual loop just doesnt make sense, your loop will be shorter and more effective at cooling if its all in one

NaeKuh · 11-17-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

the extra tubing length involved in a dual loop just doesnt make sense, your loop will be shorter and more effective at cooling if its all in one

No snipe.. take this statement back.

Because each loop has its own flow, and is independent of each other.

Overall a dual loop is always better because of more control, but it takes a grip of real estate.

The math i usually use is, do you have more then 350W of heat inline?
If you do, then your gonna have a temp gradiant greater then 1C from the inlet and outlet of your radiator /w 1gpm flow.
Because thats what Thermo states.

If your numbers are below 350W i dont see a problem throwing it on 1 loop.
If your numbers are greater, i always split them up.

Detale · 11-17-2009, 12:28 PM

How do I know how many W of heat I have in a line? i know that when I had all 3 (CPU,NB,GTX 260) using a 120.2 rad it was always warm.

NaeKuh · 11-17-2009, 12:46 PM

u guessimate by looking at TDP.

Since TDP represents total power draw, you can assume that will be the max heat.
OF course the heat will be less then TDP values, but it gives you a number to guessimate and work with.

SNiiPE_DoGG · 11-17-2009, 12:54 PM

lol with a 775 quad a gtx 260 and p45 (is a low heat chip) there isnt a chance he is going to need to do two loops. it just doesnt make sense because the heatload istn very big. 2 video cards and dual loops might make sense but not with what he has now.

eth0s · 11-17-2009, 01:47 PM

I think you should go with one big loop powered by your two pumps. (I recommend getting the XSPC dual pump top as well).

Why the obsession with two loops? What makes you want two loops? For looks? Forget that: one loop will look cleaner. Challenge? The challenge is to build the highest performing system given your personal constraints on budget, space and time, not to build an unnecessary mass of tubes. More importantly, you only have one reservoir, do you have room in your case and/ or budget for two?

Two loops are not always better. For you, one loop would be optimum because you are using the GTS 360, which is one of my favorite rads BTW, but it can only dissipate about 450 Watts of heat at a 10C air in/ water out delta (based upon my primitive home tests and guesstimations). And that Black Ice Pro 120 can probably dissipate about 200 Watts at a 10C delta. So put them together and you have conservatively speaking 650 Watts of cooling power, which is plenty to cool everything you got. But if you split your rads into two loops, then you'll have 450 watts on one loop, and 200 watts on another loop. And IMHO, 450 watts is a little low for your GPU + CPU, and 200 watts is a little high for just the NB. So you'll end up "overcooling" your NB, and "undercooling" your CPU + GPU. So it really seems to make more sense to me to just put it all in one loop. Plus with two pumps, you have plenty of head pressure, so your flow rate will be excellent in one giant loop. You could even afford to add a few 'o them fancy 90 degree fittings that everybody seems to like so much.

rmorse27 · 11-17-2009, 02:32 PM

I personally use 2 loops in my system. I have the CPU on its own loop and the 2 5870 and nb/sb on another loop. The GPU and nb/sb have a black ice 240 rad with the xspc dual bay res/pump combo to save space.The CPU uses the Antec 200mm Rad{yes I know its Aluminum before anybody starts whining about the mixing BS} with a 180mm fan on bottom and the 230 fan on top of the case with another xspc dual bay res/pump combo.My case is not cramped or crowded with 2 pumps which makes it easy to work on.

NaeKuh · 11-17-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

lol with a 775 quad a gtx 260 and p45 (is a low heat chip) there isnt a chance he is going to need to do two loops. it just doesnt make sense because the heatload istn very big. 2 video cards and dual loops might make sense but not with what he has now.

i agree with your recomendation.

But not your reason that i quoted. :T

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

the extra tubing length involved in a dual loop just doesnt make sense, your loop will be shorter and more effective at cooling if its all in one

Single loops arent always the best, as i said i only answer this question in regards to how much heat load u have on a single loop.

I dont care if the rad can handle 600-700W, that doesnt mean much to me, because i would never put that much load on a single loop unless it was TEC's.

What means much to me is the capacity per pass. (based on flow rate and heat output on parts.)

So id like my inlet and outlet on my rad to be within 1C of each other.

If you have more then 350W @ less then 1.0 gpm.. then you completely destroy the equalibirum concept in a closed loop.
So then whats the point of having a big rad, when you got a temp gradient going inside your loop?

Op let me put it to you this way.
Water is pickup trucks. Your rad is the dump yard.
If your pickup trucks can not dump the trash fast enough, whats the point in having a large dumpsite?

And the same can be said in reverse.. if you got fast trucks dumping trash at your dumpster, but your dumpster isnt big enough, that wont work either.

Do i make sense?

Detale · 11-17-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

lol with a 775 quad a gtx 260 and p45 (is a low heat chip) there isnt a chance he is going to need to do two loops. it just doesnt make sense because the heatload istn very big. 2 video cards and dual loops might make sense but not with what he has now.

Thanks so much for the reply man. OK so when you add two pumps do you "split" them on equal sides of the loop or do them back to back? I'm not sure I'v seen this before. Please elaborate a bit if you could.

To be clear though low heat my a**. I have the same board in my HTPC and the thing gets screamin hot. I mean so hot you can't even touch it when it's been busy. When i have the CPU oc's to 3.8 (as i normally do) it gets warm as well even under my old loop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eth0s

I think you should go with one big loop powered by your two pumps. (I recommend getting the XSPC dual pump top as well).

Why the obsession with two loops? What makes you want two loops? For looks? Forget that: one loop will look cleaner. Challenge? The challenge is to build the highest performing system given your personal constraints on budget, space and time, not to build an unnecessary mass of tubes. More importantly, you only have one reservoir, do you have room in your case and/ or budget for two?

Two loops are not always better. For you, one loop would be optimum because you are using the GTS 360, which is one of my favorite rads BTW, but it can only dissipate about 450 Watts of heat at a 10C air in/ water out delta (based upon my primitive home tests and guesstimations). And that Black Ice Pro 120 can probably dissipate about 200 Watts at a 10C delta. So put them together and you have conservatively speaking 650 Watts of cooling power, which is plenty to cool everything you got. But if you split your rads into two loops, then you'll have 450 watts on one loop, and 200 watts on another loop. And IMHO, 450 watts is a little low for your GPU + CPU, and 200 watts is a little high for just the NB. So you'll end up "overcooling" your NB, and "undercooling" your CPU + GPU. So it really seems to make more sense to me to just put it all in one loop. Plus with two pumps, you have plenty of head pressure, so your flow rate will be excellent in one giant loop. You could even afford to add a few 'o them fancy 90 degree fittings that everybody seems to like so much.

The res I have is a dual pump top/res. It is two separate entities. Why two loops. Honestly i really just wanted to try it out and Think it would give better cooling as it would isolate "zones" and i could controll it better that way. Not to mention I think it's cool as hell

I do have a ton of the shiny Bitspower fittings you speak of and they will make their way in there no matter what

. How do I go about getting the watts used with my hardware? Thanks for your reply.

SNiiPE_DoGG · 11-17-2009, 05:42 PM

put the pumps one after the other (next to each other)

and temperature does not equal heat - the p45 is a fairly low wattage chip but if the cooling solution is no good then it will still reach a high temperature and feel hot.

Detale · 11-19-2009, 04:02 PM

Not that I doubt you, but I feel like the flow would still be at whatever the rate of the second pump is. I don't see the first pump speeding up the rate. If the first pump was slightly faster than the second or vice versa the would "fight" each other. No?

What about if i have two seperate loops and then say cross the intake on the pumps. Hopefully you can understand, Imagine an infinity sign where the center is the res/pump I have. Will that work better than 2 separate loops at all?

Detale · 11-20-2009, 05:11 PM

no one?

woffen · 11-20-2009, 11:51 PM

If you check out all of Vapors testing you can see that he uses different pump combos when testing stuff.

Here is a good example:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=235967

Detale · 11-23-2009, 12:00 AM

Thanks Woffen so I'll leave em separate then. Well I got all ready to fill up my system and about 3 oz into it the XSPC Dual Bay Res, I have (brand new mind you) has a leak in it. It started dripping from in between the front and side panel almost immediately. Needless to say i was upset. I contacted PPCs for a RMA and they contacted a rep from XSPC and he is going to send new one out to me after he asked for a pic of the leak. Here is what I showed em

now I wait......