3 phase rotaries connection ?

[piotres]

Hi

I've bought two rotaries, bit non-standart : both are marked as 3 ph (3 phase) and 60Hz . I live in Europe we have here 230V/ 400V 3 phase. I don't know how to connect them . They're taken out of AC units used in Sweden (they have 230V also). Every of compressor I got is with whole control unit from AC , and every has connection places for 4 wires so that really looks like 3 phase ...please look at photos .

It's Toshiba HV210X2-S15L

and

Sanyo C-6RB137H03AA

SANYO :





That's diagram from sticker on control unit from AC.


TOSHIBA :




I'm not sure if that capacitor is from that compressor, saler give me it , it looks quite big like for compressor (1800uF ? usually normal 230V PH1 compressor use 20-50uF) .


On toshiba that's wrote "PH3 Hz60 V120" , so I guess that's 120V and 3 phase ?

On Sanyo there is : "V138 Hz60 PH3" . 138V ?

Can anybody tell me how should I connect those compressors ?



Regards
Peter

[zipdogso]

It is some 20 odd years since I was at college on a course covering 3 phase/super grid supplies and i don't remember much....

But i do remember you will not be running this without a commercial/Industrial 3 phase supply. Domestic supply is not the same. If I have jumped the gun a bit and you have a commercial 3 phase supply ...sorry.... but I think if you had the supply wiring it would be quite obvious from one of your photos you have an earth, a neutral and 2 live wires.

Normally domestic supplys are usually 2 phase - a positive cycle and a negative cycle.
3 Phase has an extra positive cycle out of sync with the first that's why there are 2 live wires.

2 and 3 phase are not interchangable.

[Moc]

Inverter AC... so they run with a frequency changer. Normally you can run them from 30-200hz.
The "controll units" you see have such a frequency changer/inverter inside.

[SexyMF]

It is some 20 odd years since I was at college on a course covering 3 phase/super grid supplies and i don't remember much....

But i do remember you will not be running this without a commercial/Industrial 3 phase supply. Domestic supply is not the same. If I have jumped the gun a bit and you have a commercial 3 phase supply ...sorry.... but I think if you had the supply wiring it would be quite obvious from one of your photos you have an earth, a neutral and 2 live wires.

Normally domestic supplys are usually 2 phase - a positive cycle and a negative cycle.
3 Phase has an extra positive cycle out of sync with the first that's why there are 2 live wires.

2 and 3 phase are not interchangable.

This is just wrong and bad information.



Looking at the circuit it appears that the unit is single phase in and an IPM (intelligent power module) is used to control the 3-phase compressor. It is always difficult to tell from the wiring diagrams. I would check to see if the N is also the SG-N connection. The filtered supply is likely for the IPM and the additional non-filtered phase(s) will be for the other circuitry. The IPM is fed from rectified single phase, so if you check the specs on the module then you can tell if it is for 230V or 115V ac supply (before rectification).

[zipdogso]

Originally Posted by SexyMF

This is just wrong and bad information.

Yep my memory was pretty bad but not completely

Here is a good definition of 3 phase I have since found this applies to the UK so abroad voltages might be different but the principal is the same:-

"The three windings are star connected, and draw it here but put a dot in the middle of a page. Draw a line vertically up from it . Go clockwise one third (120 degrees) and put another line from the central dot, then draw another at a further 120 degrees. you should now have three lines spaced at one thrid intervals around a circle. the first label L1 at the end, the second L2 and the thrid L3 going clockwise.

You now have a respresentaion of a three phase supply (the lines are the windings) From the central dot, draw line horizontally accross the page, this is the neutral. Also draw another line from the central dot and connect tit to earth. The central dot is called the 'star point'

ok, you know what a sine wave looks like? well each of three phases produces an identical sine wave, but they are 120 degress apart. So when the first sine wave peaks, the second is at a different point in the cycle, as is the third wave.

So, if you was to measure between any of the Lines (L1, L2 or L3) as shown on your diagram and Neutral you would have 230V, but iff you was to measure between any of the Lines (Like L1 to L2) you would measure 400V.

With your house supply they just run the first block of houses off L1, the second block off L2 etc.

Now think if you has a 100A supply coming n to your house, then so would the next block etc. Now think of the same supply coming in to a factory, you would now have three 100A supplies (so obviously you have more available power)

Now you can either use this from a three phase dis board as three seperate single phase supplies (shared out so they are loaded equally) or take it off as a three phase 400V supply (for industrail machinery, motors etc)."

So i assumed you can't use something designed for 3 phase supply on a single phase supply.

EDIT - no you can't not normally.

And in the UK it usually cost the earth to get a 3 phase supply put in if you havent already got one.

Further update - It is indeed a 3 phase compressor used in a single phase air conditioning system.
With the Toshiba unit it appears they come from a AC unit designated as RAS-28EAHV it is 28000BTu cooling only outdoor unit for domestic/small office use, the Toshiba spare part reference for the actual compressor is 43041250. I got the technical handbook but try as I might couldn't get wiring info.

Didn't try the sanyo...got to go to bed.

[SexyMF]

zipdogso:

Don't post if you don't know. The wiring diagram tells you loads of information. Your information was not at all correct. Using an IPM/inverter/VSD to power a 3 phase motor off a single phase very common.

If you want to run this piotres you will have to use the supporting circuitry or a single-phase in three-phase out VFD/VSD.



Bad electrial information has the most potential to kill you in your do-it-yourself projects.

[yngndrw]

It looks like the controller can take either a single or three phase input. It them converts it to DC and then creates the required three phase waveform. I.e. It's an inverter.
The reason why I say that it can take both inputs is because of the making "(N)" on the second input.

The main thing to watch for on these inverters is the voltages. For example I have a CNC spindle and inverter where the spindle is 220V instead of our usual 415V three phase. This means that my inverter can be run off of our normal 230V single phase.

Regardless of anything, I would strongly suggest that you contact the company and ask them to clarify everything before you start.

PS: I didn't read all of the posts in this thread, sorry if what I said has already been said.