questions about chilling from a newbie

[01sephiroth10]

ok obviously this is my first attempt at chilled LCS
but ive the idea for this for a few months now and i didnt even know that it had been done well until earlier today


anyway on to my questions. ive been looking around at the pics of chilled systems and none of them go the way ive been thinking tho my idea may be a bit over board

ok first question what damage may occur if i do not insulate my liquid block?

and second question is the modded minifridge the only way its been done so far?

my idea was basically building a high end liquid cooling system

dropping the radiator and replacing it with one that would normally be used in industrial trucks. (30+FT of 3/8 inch copper tubing which would be in 3-6 cores)

putting the huge radiator into a chest style ice cream freezer (which can cool air to about -50C)

filling it with mineral oil or non conductive fluid

placing two small fans (like 12 inch versions of something like this http://www.paperstone.co.uk/images/Large/792154.jpg)
to circulate the cold oil or fluid through the enormous radiator

.....<.<....as i said...it may be over the top OR.....it may not work...
anyway any thought on my idea?

[Plan.B]

Originally Posted by 01sephiroth10

ok first question what damage may occur if i do not insulate my liquid block?

and second question is the modded minifridge the only way its been done so far?

dropping the radiator and replacing it with one that would normally be used in industrial trucks.

putting the huge radiator into a chest style ice cream freezer (which can cool air to about -50C)

filling it with mineral oil or non conductive fluid

placing two small fans (like 12 inch versions of something like this http://www.paperstone.co.uk/images/Large/792154.jpg)
to circulate the cold oil or fluid through the enormous radiator

damage if no insulation? if block cools to below 0C, frost/ice will form on block - turn cooling system off and frost/ice will melt. water may contact pcb. if power on, may cause a short. cool below dew point, condensation will form on block, again - water on pcb + power to comp = not good.

modded minifridge? mod the cooling system of the fridge, or mod fridge to fit comp? generally the minifridge idea is full of fail for serious cooling. other better ways include converting a/c unit to chiller, or building custom chiller with a/c-like parts.

use truck rad? been there done that. needs a good pump & needs good air movement to be effective.

putting truck rad into -50C freezer chest? now we're talkin. that would be extreme. needs blocks & pump & coolant & tubing that can handle -50C.

mineral oil? use distilled water + denatured alcohol, or distilled water + antifreeze, or low temp windshield washer fluid. exact mix will depend on lowest temp reached.

fans to circulate coolant? the pump will circulate coolant through rad, fans will move air across rad.

generally, you will need to master water-cooling before you move onto chilled liquid cooling. the added fun comes with the need to insulate and the need for durable low-temp components.

[01sephiroth10]

the rad will be submerged in mineral oil the coolant in the loop will probably be either alcohol or a mix of ordinary liquid coolant and antifreeze

the fans are to circulate the fluid in the freezer around not the coolant in the loop.

ill most likely be using insulated copper tubing only using the silicone to help seal the copper tubing to the blocks

as for the block im not really sure what im going to use....im not sure what can stand up to -50c any suggestions?

im planning to build my prototype on an LGA775 P4 board and if it works well gonna move it to a 1366 i7 board

since the rad ill be using has about 40 feet of tubing and due to my overwhelming urge to go overboard ill be using a pool pump (will post a pic and specs on it after work today)

by the way the freezer ive got in mind is just a powerful freezer if anyone comes across a lab freezer or cryofreezer plz leave me a link to it

[Plan.B]

Originally Posted by 01sephiroth10

the rad will be submerged in mineral oil the coolant in the loop will probably be either alcohol or a mix of ordinary liquid coolant and antifreeze

the fans are to circulate the fluid in the freezer around not the coolant in the loop.

ill most likely be using insulated copper tubing only using the silicone to help seal the copper tubing to the blocks

as for the block im not really sure what im going to use....im not sure what can stand up to -50c any suggestions?

im planning to build my prototype on an LGA775 P4 board and if it works well gonna move it to a 1366 i7 board

so a freezer chest full of mineral oil? a freezer is a compressor/condenser/evaporator setup that chills the air (or mineral oil) in the box, right? cut out the middle step, enclose the evap in an insulated box, fill with coolant, and run the tubing from there. essentially an a/c convert. would probably be more efficient. or make a chillbox (chilled air cooling) and avoid the pump, coolant, tubing, and block stuff. pics of freezer needed. need to see how exactly the evap cools the air in the box - fans blowing across the evap into the box? - does it cool the outside of the box by direct contact? - evap in the box? mineral oil might not be possible or practical, depending on freezer construction. 40 feet of copper tubing? tygon might be more cost effective, easier to secure at the ends also. I don't know if silicone alone would be sufficient, I like mechanical/clamp connections. block? for -50C its gotta be all metal - no delrin, acetal, plastic, etc. here is my favorite s775 chilling block, brazed copper:



the prototype plan is always a good one, before bringing nice expensive hardware into the mix. Good luck and pics please.

[repsol_23]

Hey, I use the same exact block on my chiller box. I have an old window unit in a cooler with 2 swiftech 3.120 rads absorbing cold air. I have switches on my 6 fans (wired in pairs) and can run 5V/12V variations to keep from going below dew point. I have my cpu/nb/gpu/120.1 rad all on the same loop and fluid temps range from 2C (2 pairs of fans @ 12V) to around 17C (1 pair running @ 5V).

Originally Posted by Plan.B

so a freezer chest full of mineral oil? a freezer is a compressor/condenser/evaporator setup that chills the air (or mineral oil) in the box, right? cut out the middle step, enclose the evap in an insulated box, fill with coolant, and run the tubing from there. essentially an a/c convert. would probably be more efficient. or make a chillbox (chilled air cooling) and avoid the pump, coolant, tubing, and block stuff. pics of freezer needed. need to see how exactly the evap cools the air in the box - fans blowing across the evap into the box? - does it cool the outside of the box by direct contact? - evap in the box? mineral oil might not be possible or practical, depending on freezer construction. 40 feet of copper tubing? tygon might be more cost effective, easier to secure at the ends also. I don't know if silicone alone would be sufficient, I like mechanical/clamp connections. block? for -50C its gotta be all metal - no delrin, acetal, plastic, etc. here is my favorite s775 chilling block, brazed copper:



the prototype plan is always a good one, before bringing nice expensive hardware into the mix. Good luck and pics please.

[01sephiroth10]

i was saying that the radiator is made up of about 40 foot of copper tubing

the freezer is just a standard chest style ice cream freezer that you would see at the store full of tasty ice cream those get to around -30C im getting it for $100 from a freind who added a second coil to it for a project at his college

getting to -49.76C to be exact with the compartment empty
also the top is flat triple layer tempered glass so it not much warmth can penetrate it easily

i dont want to pull the freezer apart simply because i dont want to have to buy the gas coolant and all the hardware needed to apply it

the inside of the freezers compartment is completely water tight so anything i put in there isnt coming out unless i tip the freezer over.

as for the silicon i was referring to placing a short piece of silicon tube into the copper tube where it'll be connecting to the blocks for cpu and gpu's to help keep a good seal on it, and thats only if i can't braze or weld it to the inlets on the blocks

recap slightly more detailed

fill freezer with mineral oil or other non conductive fluid

set 2 fans in to circulate the fluid and keep it from solidifying

set up coolling system using 1/2 inch copper tubing, insanely over kill pump, and heavy duty truck/generator radiator

make 2 small holes for tubing to pass through top of freezer and bottom of computer case

place radiator into freezer running tubes though holes

seal the holes around the tubing

place computer on top of the freezer running tubing into holes in the bottom on the case

secure all tubing clamps and etc add coolant and run everything

^thats my basic plan....as stated in thread title im new to this

[repsol_23]

Depending on how much heat you are trying to dissipate into your chilled mineral oil, you may not actually see anything near -50C. Those freezers are not designed for anykind of heat dump. What I mean is things usually get put into their already frozen or cold and are kept that way by the freezer. You may still get sub ambient temps that way but I don't think they will be sub-zero.

[01sephiroth10]

well this is meant to get me as close to 0 as possible if i can get below 10C ill be changing my tactics

im searching for a lab freezer atm
if this works as well as i hope it will ill get a lab freezer

lab freezers are designed to quickly freeze warm or hot objects

[repsol_23]

Just out of curiousity, is the amount of electricity being used not an issue? I used to have this outlook until I realised how much electricity I was consuming in my attempts to go subzero. In my scenario, I was running ~ 400 watt TEC on cpu, 150 watt on gpu, 2 meanwell power supplies, a 500 watt ac unit chilling the hotsides of tec's, a thermaltake 750 watt psu and my bill went thru the roof. Wife wasn't too pleased about that either, BUT I had gaming temps below freezing and benching temps right at 0C.

[01sephiroth10]

as long as i can get below 10C

im gonna go bigger so probably a sealed labfreezer full of liquid nitrogen
...<.<..>.>...or a cryo freezer .....full of liquid nitrogen

[Plan.B]

sounds like it would make an excellent chillbox