I'm new to these forums, though I've been lurking around for about 2-3 weeks. I initially planned to just aircool my PC, but after checking a few topics here, I've been poisoned! I thirst for a water cooled pc now
I could really use the help in choosing the right parts, as well as advice/ideas on how to set up. Don't want to spend any more than necessary I also have load of questions to ask, there's a lot to learn it seems.
Lets cut to the chase
My new system: (haven't bought it, only getting it around december)
Is that setup sufficient to cool my system with about a 10C delta?
Would a dual loop net significant performance increase?
The typhoon III has 2 inlets, assuming i go with only 1 loop, I can use that inlet and plug it to the top of the HAF932 to be used as a fillport right? Would that cause any issues?
To prevent algae growth, I decided to use the tygon silver. I'm not sure how it looks in builds, does anyone have pictures? I tried googling and didn't turn up anything.
If I only use tygon silver on a few parts, would that be sufficient to keep the loop safe from algae growth?
What are good temperature sensors to use to check water temperature? I see a few, some way more expensive than others
What about flow rate meters? Are they important enough to get?
I'm really itching to build the system soon... waiting for the 5850 blocks to be released... gives me time to save more money too
You've been warned. Water cooling is addictive and it will only lead to continuous upgrades ($$$$).
Note: If your computer is exposed to allot of dust it'll clog your radiator quickly and I highly recommended that you use filters...
The parts you listed should do the job, but I would expect to spend another 30% or more.... Ooo and if you want a quiet system you will need to spend a few bills on some good high quality fans...
---- I'll let the others take it from here...
*** Welcome to Xtreme Systems & Water Cooling***
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BenQ FP241W Black 24" LCD
Lain-Li PC v1200 Plus II Case w/ Window
EVGA x58 Classified Bios 000
i7-920 @ 4.2GHz - 1.352v Temps (23C-54C)
Windows 7 64 Bit
6GB Muskin DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) @ 8-8-7-24 1T - 1.65v
EVGA 8800 Ultra x2 "OC" w/ Danger Den Water Block Temps (35C-54C)
EK-Supreme / 2 Alphacool Laing DDC-Pump Ultras + Extras
Power Supply / Crosair 1000HX
Seagate ST3500631NS 500GB x 3
Crosair SSD 128GB x 2
Last edited by malkiewicz; 10-03-2009 at 04:33 AM.
You've been warned. Water cooling is addictive and it will only lead to continuous upgrades ($$$$).
Don't I know that... I initially thought "hmm... a 200USD budget would suffice"... and I somehow ended up with a 500USD budget
I'm still stubbornly sticking to the HAF932... though the Corsair 800D is making me salivate.
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Note: If your computer is exposed to allot of dust it'll clog your radiator quickly and I highly recommended that you use filters...
Yes, I do plan to get them, and I can the filters for a rather cheap price here, and cut them to fill up the holes in the HAF932 as well make my own fan filters. I know the holes are there for ventilation, but since I'm WCing, it shouldnt be that important. I cleaned up my current 7800GTX the other day, opened up the heatsink and I found a think layer of dust that totally impeded airflow in its heatsink. I want to avoid needing to do cleaning of that level anymore (temps on my 7800gtx dropped 15C after remove that dusty layer).
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The parts you listed should do the job, but I would expect to spend another 30% or more.... Ooo and if you want a quiet system you will need to spend a few bills on some good high quality fans...
The scythe ultra kaze's are not good enough? :omg:
If you reduce the rpms you can achieve lower dBA's but your flow rate will be compromised (Not recommended for an OC)... Not sure what your ambient temps are like but I'm assuming that you would need around 70-90CFM per fan (push / pull)...
Try it... If you don't like it try another..... You will find what you're looking for eventually...
__________________
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BenQ FP241W Black 24" LCD
Lain-Li PC v1200 Plus II Case w/ Window
EVGA x58 Classified Bios 000
i7-920 @ 4.2GHz - 1.352v Temps (23C-54C)
Windows 7 64 Bit
6GB Muskin DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) @ 8-8-7-24 1T - 1.65v
EVGA 8800 Ultra x2 "OC" w/ Danger Den Water Block Temps (35C-54C)
EK-Supreme / 2 Alphacool Laing DDC-Pump Ultras + Extras
Power Supply / Crosair 1000HX
Seagate ST3500631NS 500GB x 3
Crosair SSD 128GB x 2
Last edited by malkiewicz; 10-03-2009 at 05:40 AM.
You can't use another inlet as a fillport on the T3. It won't fill it up completly. Trust be though, the flipping of the case onto its back to fill and bleed really does work. I've done it a couple of times and it is very easy to fill and bleed that way.
I'm guessing (hoping) you are using distilled water in your loop. You could get some Primochill PRO LRT colored tubing as you want bling. You can then get some 99.99% pure silver. You can find this at a local jeweler as you are overseas. I use iandh's coils myself. That will take care of anything growing in your loop.
For fans, I like the Gentle Typhoon 1850s. They are nice rad fans and are not very loud at all.
edit: which D5 you have, vario or non-vario? The non-varios can get a little loud on the T3.
If you reduce the rpms you can achieve lower dBA's but your flow rate will be compromised (Not recommended for an OC)... Not sure what your ambient temps are like but I'm assuming that you would need around 70-90CFM per fan (push / pull)...
Wait.. reducing rpms of my fans will affect my flow rate? How does that work? It will affect my C/W for sure.. but enough to mess an overclock? Hmm... that would need some testing
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Try it... If you don't like it try another..... You will find what you're looking for eventually...
Yea, that's a valid point.
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Originally Posted by millertime359
You can't use another inlet as a fillport on the T3. It won't fill it up completly. Trust be though, the flipping of the case onto its back to fill and bleed really does work. I've done it a couple of times and it is very easy to fill and bleed that way.
I was just seeing if I could be a lazy arse :P At least I have this ambiguity cleared up
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I'm guessing (hoping) you are using distilled water in your loop. You could get some Primochill PRO LRT colored tubing as you want bling. You can then get some 99.99% pure silver. You can find this at a local jeweler as you are overseas. I use iandh's coils myself. That will take care of anything growing in your loop.
Yes, I will be using pure distilled, seems to give better performance, and less potential headaches. I can't see any reason to NOT use distilled.
Question though, so the silver tubing wouldn't work the same way as silver coil? Was thinking that 1ft of tygon silver isn't going to cost me as much as a silver coil. If it works the same, I might as well get that.
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For fans, I like the Gentle Typhoon 1850s. They are nice rad fans and are not very loud at all.
I'll take a look into those
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edit: which D5 you have, vario or non-vario? The non-varios can get a little loud on the T3.
I'd still favor a D5 with custom top, silence is golden and performance wise is about the same since you running 1 loop. For 2 loops i'd rather keep things separated.
Honestly, I'm not certain on the ft of tygon silver tube vs a piece of silver. You had made a comment of wanting some bling. The silver can be placed anywhere in your loop so you don't see it, and the colored tubing gives you the bling.
You can e-mail Petra about sending the regular mail. I know I had mine sent regular mail, and only cost about a dollar. You also don't have to use iandh's. ANY piece of silver as long as it is 99.99% pure will work. You can always check local jewelers and see what they have.
I'd still favor a D5 with custom top, silence is golden and performance wise is about the same since you running 1 loop. For 2 loops i'd rather keep things separated.
yea, the reservoir does allow things to be rather neat though Don't have to worry too much about pump placing.
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Originally Posted by millertime359
Honestly, I'm not certain on the ft of tygon silver tube vs a piece of silver. You had made a comment of wanting some bling. The silver can be placed anywhere in your loop so you don't see it, and the colored tubing gives you the bling.
Indeed I'm more or less just curious about the effectiveness The silver tubing could be bling in its own right, I just need to know how it looks in loops and how it responds to lighting to get a rough idea. Haven't seen lots of pictures of it in the wild yet
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You can e-mail Petra about sending the regular mail. I know I had mine sent regular mail, and only cost about a dollar. You also don't have to use iandh's. ANY piece of silver as long as it is 99.99% pure will work. You can always check local jewelers and see what they have.
I've seen a couple of photos floating around of it.
I also tend to disagree with the idea of sperate loops vs parrellel loops with the T3. I keep refering to Norris on this as I haven't seen any other temps posted yet. He has a OC'ed I7, tri-slied 280s and the MB all on the T3 and didn't see a difference in temps vs using 2 DDCs on seperate loops.
If you already have a DDC, I would just get a second DDC and separate the loops. If you already have a D5, or are starting your first W/Cing project, and are cooling enough to warrent doing 2 loops (sub-loops), I would just get the T3.
I've seen a couple of photos floating around of it.
Any keywords to google? I've tried "tygon silver water cooling images" and some variants of that. Even "tygon silver modding" :P
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I also tend to disagree with the idea of sperate loops vs parrellel loops with the T3. I keep refering to Norris on this as I haven't seen any other temps posted yet. He has a OC'ed I7, tri-slied 280s and the MB all on the T3 and didn't see a difference in temps vs using 2 DDCs on seperate loops.
If you already have a DDC, I would just get a second DDC and separate the loops. If you already have a D5, or are starting your first W/Cing project, and are cooling enough to warrent doing 2 loops (sub-loops), I would just get the T3.
Well I plan to run it in 1 loop for now, with a possible expansion to parallel loop (adding another radiator for the graphic card) in the future. That is still to be seen, need to see what kind of temperatures i'll be getting with my current build. It should go something like this right?
I actually run it a bit different. I have mine set up so the rad is on one sub-loop and the blocks are on the other. I haven't had a chance to play with it and see if there is any temp difference. Also I went from MCR220 to the MCR320 when I installed the T3. I don't think there would be a big difference in temps between the way I did it or a single loop.
That is the great thing about the T3. It can be expanded. You only need one loop great. You get a Core I7 and some 5870s in CF, open up the other sub-loop, throw in another rad and your all set.
I actually run it a bit different. I have mine set up so the rad is on one sub-loop and the blocks are on the other.
That's a weird set up... any particular reasons you had it set up like this?
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That is the great thing about the T3. It can be expanded. You only need one loop great. You get a Core I7 and some 5870s in CF, open up the other sub-loop, throw in another rad and your all set.
I highly recommend the Heatkiller 3.0 cpu block over Swiftech.They are both great blocks,but the Heatkiller is just a little bit better. I personally right now run 2 loops in my system one for the cpu and the other for the NB/SB chipset. The water blocks for the 5870 havent come out and will be addded to loop when they do.Distilled water with ptnuke is what I use and it does a great job. I also use the xspc dual bay res/pump combo which works great for me. Good Luck and I totally agree you are head into very addictive waters.
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Antec 1200 Case
E8500
Asus Rampage Formula
8 Gigs Mushkin 1066 Ram
2 x 500 Green WD Drives
2 x Lightscribe Dvd Burners
2 x Ati 5870 xfire
EK 5870 Water Blocks
Corsair HX 1000 Watt Pws
Heatkiller 3.0 775 Water Block
Bitspower Nb/Sb Block
2 Xspc Dual Bay Pump/Res Combo
Xfi Sound Card
Black Ice 240mm Radiator
Antec 200mm Radiator
180mm Fan
Is that setup sufficient to cool my system with about a 10C delta?
Would a dual loop net significant performance increase?
The typhoon III has 2 inlets, assuming i go with only 1 loop, I can use that inlet and plug it to the top of the HAF932 to be used as a fillport right? Would that cause any issues?
To prevent algae growth, I decided to use the tygon silver. I'm not sure how it looks in builds, does anyone have pictures? I tried googling and didn't turn up anything.
If I only use tygon silver on a few parts, would that be sufficient to keep the loop safe from algae growth?
What are good temperature sensors to use to check water temperature? I see a few, some way more expensive than others
What about flow rate meters? Are they important enough to get?
List of Answers:
1. No. You are going to need more radiators for 10C delta. Add another 240mm rad, and you should be in the ballpark. Get another 360, and you'll be there.
2. Significant performance increase? I don't know your definition of "significant". But you will get a performance increase from 2 loops, how much depends on the pumps, rads and blocks.
3. I have no idea. I don't own a Typhoon 3.
4. Tygon silver tubing looks bad IMHO. Get colored tubing, some UV lights, and a silver kill coil (or Petra's biocide), and it will look a lot better. You said you wanted bling, so this is how to get it. Remember this immutable law of the universe: bling is not cheap.
5. Um, again, I have no idea. If you want to be safe use biocide + distilled water. Or use a silver kill coil.
6. Temp sensors are pieces of scientific equipment, and as such the more accurate they are the more expensive they are. If you want an extremely accurate temperature probe, then it will cost you an extreme amount of money. Do you need to know your water temp to .01C? No. You can make do with a cheap one that is accurate to within 2C.
7. Flow rate meters: Yes they are great, but ironically, the flow rate meter reduces flow! So how important is it to know that your flow is 1.6 gpm, as opposed to 1.5gpm? Not important. And what are you going to do if you know this information? Nothing. This will not help you in the least, and it actually hurts your cooling performance. So unless you are some kind of uber nerd who has an OCD need to know this data, then skip the flow rate meter.
8. DUST! Arrgh! I hate it! You Hate it! We all hate it! It is the bane of our existence. There are two enemies of any computer: Heat and Dust. They both must be eliminated. The only solution to dust is FILTERS. First filter your computer room's windows, or better yet close the windows and buy an air conditioner. Second, get an air filter/ purifier in the computer room. Third, take showers every day and exfoliate your dead skin with a brush (this is where most household dust comes from -- your dead skin), also your skin will be healthier. Fourth, Get A CASE WITH EXCELLENT DUST FILTERS. Lian Li has pretty good dust filters on their new cases, check them out. Again you gotta spend money to get quality products. And Fifth, do some regular dusting and vacuuming inside the case to keep the dust level down. Yes I said vacuuming, which is risky only if you are a clumsy jackass. And while this is not for beginners, if you know what you are doing, you can vacuum the dust out of your case like magic, and in a few minutes be relatively dust free, otherwise you have to take it all apart and clean everything by hand. And don't mention compressed air to me, because compressed air causes condensation, which causes electrical shorts, and you don't want that.
1. No. You are going to need more radiators for 10C delta. Add another 240mm rad, and you should be in the ballpark. Get another 360, and you'll be there.
Getting another rad might be out of the budget for now... but I do have another 2 months to save The girlfriend is not going to be happy :P
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4. Tygon silver tubing looks bad IMHO. Get colored tubing, some UV lights, and a silver kill coil (or Petra's biocide), and it will look a lot better. You said you wanted bling, so this is how to get it. Remember this immutable law of the universe: bling is not cheap.
Indeed...
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6. Temp sensors are pieces of scientific equipment, and as such the more accurate they are the more expensive they are. If you want an extremely accurate temperature probe, then it will cost you an extreme amount of money. Do you need to know your water temp to .01C? No. You can make do with a cheap one that is accurate to within 2C.
Within 2C is good enough, though something within 0.5-1C would be preferred. Just need something to tell me the temp of my liquid so I can tune the performance
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7. Flow rate meters: Yes they are great, but ironically, the flow rate meter reduces flow! So how important is it to know that your flow is 1.6 gpm, as opposed to 1.5gpm? Not important. And what are you going to do if you know this information? Nothing. This will not help you in the least, and it actually hurts your cooling performance. So unless you are some kind of uber nerd who has an OCD need to know this data, then skip the flow rate meter.
Got it
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8. DUST! Arrgh! I hate it! You Hate it! We all hate it! It is the bane of our existence. There are two enemies of any computer: Heat and Dust. They both must be eliminated. The only solution to dust is FILTERS. First filter your computer room's windows, or better yet close the windows and buy an air conditioner. Second, get an air filter/ purifier in the computer room. Third, take showers every day and exfoliate your dead skin with a brush (this is where most household dust comes from -- your dead skin), also your skin will be healthier. Fourth, Get A CASE WITH EXCELLENT DUST FILTERS. Lian Li has pretty good dust filters on their new cases, check them out. Again you gotta spend money to get quality products. And Fifth, do some regular dusting and vacuuming inside the case to keep the dust level down. Yes I said vacuuming, which is risky only if you are a clumsy jackass. And while this is not for beginners, if you know what you are doing, you can vacuum the dust out of your case like magic, and in a few minutes be relatively dust free, otherwise you have to take it all apart and clean everything by hand. And don't mention compressed air to me, because compressed air causes condensation, which causes electrical shorts, and you don't want that.
I'm in Malaysia... we often take 2-3 showers a day thanks to the heat and humidity. My computer is actually in an area that has no windows, (the upstairs hall, but the hall is connected to the stairs which has a high ceiling and is connected to the top of the apartment (where the building's water reservoirs are held, there are windows there). I suspect dust seeps into the house through this area. Can't really close it up either, its quite necessary for ventilation
I do a dusting every 3 months, but its an incredibly tedious process, even with dust filters and vaccums. Compressed air doesn't really work well for cleaning dust, you just push the dust elsewhere for the time being. I only use compressed air to get dust out of tight spots (normally heatsink fins) to be vaccumed.
While we are on the topic of dust cleaning. I assume that dust will in time, accumulate on the radiators as well? If I mount the radiator inside the case, at the top.. can I just vaccum the rads from the holes at the top of the case, or do I have to dismantle the rad for cleaning?
That's a weird set up... any particular reasons you had it set up like this?
Yes, its an amazing product
Talking to BoxGods and a few others here, it sounded like it would work and it does.
It allows you to take advantage of the design of the T3. The T3 also turns over the water about 17 times a min in that res, so that is one of the reasons it works. I haven't been able to test if it is better temp wise or not, but I know my temps are fine for me, so thats all that matters.
I'm thinking of getting a 2nd radiator, a MCR220 with integrated reservoir. Then I'll change the XSPC360 to a MCR360. For an extra $15-20 bucks, I get myself an extra radiator, doesn't sound too bad Now the reason I want to get the MCR220 w/res is so that I can re-fill the loop without needing to tilt the case for the typhoon III. I'm still keeping the typhoon III as a set up for parralel loops and a holder for my D5.
What do you guys think? MCR220 will be mounted on the back of the HAF932.
For people that complain about using compressed air for cleaning PC's, you realise that you can put water traps on the outlet of an air compressor that stops any condensation from getting down the air line? I have no idea about compressed air in a can, the thought of buying air in a can sounds hilarious to me, though I guess it's not any worse than bottled water...
SilverHawk, I currently have a HAF 932 with two internal rads fitted. I have a MCR320 up top, and a MCR220 behind the HDD bays. It's a tight fit but it works. Though for longer graphics cards, I'll be taking the HDD bays completely out of the case to give myself a bit more room. If you don't want to take a dremel to your case then I think using a MCR220 on the back of the HAF will work fine.
For people that complain about using compressed air for cleaning PC's, you realise that you can put water traps on the outlet of an air compressor that stops any condensation from getting down the air line? I have no idea about compressed air in a can, the thought of buying air in a can sounds hilarious to me, though I guess it's not any worse than bottled water...
SilverHawk, I currently have a HAF 932 with two internal rads fitted. I have a MCR320 up top, and a MCR220 behind the HDD bays. It's a tight fit but it works. Though for longer graphics cards, I'll be taking the HDD bays completely out of the case to give myself a bit more room. If you don't want to take a dremel to your case then I think using a MCR220 on the back of the HAF will work fine.
Thanks mate, needed to know it'll work
Any idea about having 2 reservoirs though? Wondering if it'll cause any problems. I'm planning to get the MCR220 with reservoir, then I can top up my loop without tilting the case for the typhoon III
Alright, forgive this post if it repeats things but I just wanted to give my two cents about a couple things mentioned.
Ultra Kaze are awesome. Put them at full speed and you have awesome cooling power for stress testing or especially hot days. Put them down to 5v and they are pretty quiet imo.
Also, Tygon Silver looks awesome imo. I just wouldn't recommend it to someone who is new to WCing. It is very stiff and is nearly impossible to clamp onto barbs. Almost any other tubing will work better. I had about 7ft in my comp for my last two iterations so I have some experience with it.
Also, seriously... HK over Swiftech on grounds of performance... for someone who is new? If you look at Vapor's testing the XT wins out. It also has the best mounting system of any block by far. If you like the looks of the HK (nickel plated is a beast) better or have a weak pump, fine, I can understand. For a normal system though I really don't get why you would recommend the HK over the XT for him though.
faster3200, any pictures of the tygon silver in your build? Would like to see how it looks like in a system
and I've already decided on the XT It looks awesome IMO
I don't have any pics of my cases (you might be able to find a pic someone else took though). However, you can find Tygon silver used in this build. Scroll down past green pics and you can find it.
I also have load of questions to ask, there's a lot to learn it seems. 
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