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Old 09-17-2009, 09:23 AM   #1
sdumper
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Variac w2m

My old Variac was rated from 0 to 140volts and my new Variac is also rated from 0 - 140 volts.

That said my old Variac was a W5M and my new one is a W2M.

W5M = 4 amps
w2M = 2 amps


Im not an electrician but what does this actually mean as far as how much heat I can generate by powering my 2 - 150 watt cartridges?

I saw the 0-140 and assumed it would be the excat same but the 2 amps through me...
http://www.technipowersystems.com/va...2%20Manual.pdf
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Last edited by sdumper; 09-18-2009 at 05:33 AM.
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:15 AM   #2
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Walt/Ultra/DetroitAC,

Can you help educate me
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:05 AM   #3
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volt X amps X power factor = watts since the PF for resistive heating elements is ~1 Using just volts X amps = watts is ok.

140v x 2 amps = 280 watts max. for your new variac.

The 150 watt heaters are rated that @ a specific voltage & @ have a specific resistance, DetriotAc would know exactly.

Or You can measure the resistance of the cartridges ,Ohms. then the voltage the variac is putting out and plug those numbers into a ohms law calculator. that will give you the watts and amps.


Google a ohms law calculator. Or use this one........http://www.chromalox.com/resource-ce...ohms-law.aspx#


knowing any 2 values you can calculate the other 2. knowing the Variac is 2 amps @ 140 volts lets you know 280 watts @ 70 ohms is its rated max.




Measure the resistance of the elements X the 140 volts max of the variac. If your drawing more than 2 amps the variac is overloaded.
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:19 AM   #4
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Thanks walt it actually showed 2.4 amps on the spec sheet so this is going to have to be close enough ...

I should have researched more before buying... http://www.technipowersystems.com/va...0%20Manual.pdf
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:37 AM   #5
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2.4 amps@ 125 volts works out to 300 watts. It's the resistance of the heaters that is a constant (without change in temperature).
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The Laws of Thermodynamics say:

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First Law: "You can't win."
Second Law: "You can't break even."
Third Law: "You can't quit the game."

Do you wanna Play Thermodynamics ???????? I forgot "you must"
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:49 AM   #6
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Something is confusing me because when my old variac was set at 95 volts it was drawing 200 watts from the wall based off the killowat reader but if thats the case then

95volts x 6amps = 570 watts?

How does the resistance of the heat cartridges fit in again?
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:31 PM   #7
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Your mixing numbers from the primary side(wall recepticale,variac input) and the secondary side (variac output.)

Your primary side is your line voltage,say 115 or 120 volt(this is constant) and current (amps) is only limited by wire size 14/2 or 12/2 and circuit breaker or fuse in electrical panel (15 amp for 14/2 wire) or (20 amp for 12/2 wire.)

Your Secondary side of the variac is adjustable 0 to 140 volts with a max of 2.4 amps.

I'm guessing DetriotAc wired the heating cartridges in parallel, so enter the volts from the variac output then the ohms from 1 cartridge intocalclator , this will give you wattage for 1 cartridge............then multiply X 2 for total watts

For your purposes ,it's more accurate to use numbers from the secondary side of the variac to calculate actual wattage.

EDIT: If you measure wattage from the primary side of the transformer you'll be measuring the transformers ineffiency also ,given of as heat to surrounding air.
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The Laws of Thermodynamics say:

Zeroth Law: "You must play the game."
First Law: "You can't win."
Second Law: "You can't break even."
Third Law: "You can't quit the game."

Do you wanna Play Thermodynamics ???????? I forgot "you must"

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Old 09-17-2009, 01:06 PM   #8
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Basic assumption though:

if a 5 amp variac when set at 100volts was heating my cartridges up to 200watts then for a 2amp variac I would need to set the output to at least double or 200volts to achive the same results.

If so it sounds like I made a poor investment...
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdumper View Post
Basic assumption though:

if a 5 amp variac when set at 100volts was heating my cartridges up to 200watts then for a (2.5 amp) (corrected) variac I would need to set the output to at least double or 200volts to achive the same results.

If so it sounds like I made a poor investment...
Yes your on the right track, kinda

but you have fixed resistance (ohms)

if you double the volts you can half the current (amps) for the same wattage(ohms will change)

If you half the volts you double the current(amps) for the same wattage.(ohms will change)



BUT the Ohms will need to be different, You have fixed ohms(resistance)

Since your ohms is fixed(on secondary side),your only variables are 0 to 140 volts or 0 to 2.4 amps.
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The Laws of Thermodynamics say:

Zeroth Law: "You must play the game."
First Law: "You can't win."
Second Law: "You can't break even."
Third Law: "You can't quit the game."

Do you wanna Play Thermodynamics ???????? I forgot "you must"

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Old 09-17-2009, 01:39 PM   #10
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Well I'll say it:

Electricity is dangerous. More so than filling a second stage of a cascade while it's running, or using propane as a sheilding gas.

There really isn't an elegant way to say this - in terms of safety you clearly lack the most basic electrical knowledge to undertake this type of electrical construction project.


If you wire your variac for line output @120Vout you get the 2.4A - max constant current allowable in the winding at rated voltage.
If you wire in overvoltage configuration @140V you get 2A. - more voltage at the expensive of current (minor transformer action)

Also note that the spec sheet says 350-1200 cycles per second.
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:57 PM   #11
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M2/.....140 volt x 2.4 Amps = 336 watts max. rated output

M5/....140 volt x 6 Amps = 840 watts max. rated output
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The Laws of Thermodynamics say:

Zeroth Law: "You must play the game."
First Law: "You can't win."
Second Law: "You can't break even."
Third Law: "You can't quit the game."

Do you wanna Play Thermodynamics ???????? I forgot "you must"
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SexyMF View Post
There really isn't an elegant way to say this - in terms of safety you clearly lack the most basic electrical knowledge to undertake this type of electrical construction project.


Come on man of course I lack basic understanding of electrical calculations and of course its dangerous but its my risk and one i have taken before successfully. My question has nothing to do with wiring a variac been there done that with my W5M my question was in wether downgrading to a W2 was going to leave me underpowered and the answer is yes...

So now im stuck going back to a w5 or w10...
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:09 PM   #13
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In parting thanks again Walt for the assist its much appreciated and SexyMF I hope you know im not angry for you ragging on my lack of electrical prowess?
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:11 PM   #14
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SexyMF good catch on the freq, I just looked @ the chart....... didn't read even read the first paragraph. 350 to 1200 cycles(hertz) not even designed for standard current. As everyone knows standard in USA is 60 hertz & 50 hertz for Europe.
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The Laws of Thermodynamics say:

Zeroth Law: "You must play the game."
First Law: "You can't win."
Second Law: "You can't break even."
Third Law: "You can't quit the game."

Do you wanna Play Thermodynamics ???????? I forgot "you must"
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:13 PM   #15
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sdumper

Forums are not for getting personal. I read and reply to them knowing that they are public. Electroincs and electrical is my profession. So that is my input to the forums. Most people are worried about venting gas. I'm more concerned about electrical wiring.

After all, you can create and play with whatever electrical gadgets you like. As long as you don't sell them. The only ramifications are insurance and personal safety.



As for the frequency. You can run it on a lower frequency but I suspect the efficiency will plummet because you are way out of spec.
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:21 PM   #16
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Walt,
Chicken or Egg?

Eric,
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Walt,
Chicken or Egg?

Eric,
LOL
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The Laws of Thermodynamics say:

Zeroth Law: "You must play the game."
First Law: "You can't win."
Second Law: "You can't break even."
Third Law: "You can't quit the game."

Do you wanna Play Thermodynamics ???????? I forgot "you must"
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Old 09-18-2009, 05:33 AM   #18
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Opps it would have helped if I had linked the manual for the W2M: http://www.technipowersystems.com/va...2%20Manual.pdf

NOS General Radio (GenRad) W2M Variac Autotransformer

Anyway I wired it up and it worked perfectly so im back in business and again thanks for the brief tutorial. Thread bookmarked....
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Old 09-18-2009, 05:51 PM   #19
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I run these 3 in series, for a max of 450 watts but my varic is 120v 5A



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Old 09-18-2009, 05:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
I run these 3 in series, for a max of 450 watts but my varic is 120v 5A
Don't you mean parallel?
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Old 09-18-2009, 06:14 PM   #21
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Yes!
Thanks, + to + to +
- to - to -
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