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03-06-2007, 12:26 PM
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#1
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Xtreme Addict
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Richmond VA. US
Posts: 1,521
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Metal Working Questions
Is it true that heat degrades metal? If so, then why to blacksmiths heat metal till its glowing, then shape it with a hammer?
What is folding?
Thanks to anyone who can explain these topics to me. 
Edit:
The reason I'm asking this in here instead of just looking it up, is because I appreciate you guys' insite, experience, opinions, and stories. I'd rather have that than just read a referance guide for most things. It makes learning about things more fun, and I feel like I'm learning more.
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Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. - Albert Einstein
True wisdom is the ability to see past the limitations of knowledge. Insanity is knowing too much, and sanity is knowing too much about nothing important.
Last edited by Judaeus Apella; 03-06-2007 at 01:11 PM.
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03-06-2007, 01:22 PM
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#2
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I am Xtreme
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,843
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depends on what you are trying to do with it, how you heat it, and what material you are using, metal isnt just metal each one behaves differently.
I recommend you look for a website on metal working rather then XS. Start with a base of information then look for answers to your more in depth questions.
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03-06-2007, 01:48 PM
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#3
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IT Engineer in the making
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Former Kingdom of Bavaria
Posts: 2,026
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Judaeus Apella
...
Edit:
The reason I'm asking this in here instead of just looking it up, is because I appreciate you guys' insite, experience, opinions, and stories. I'd rather have that than just read a referance guide for most things. It makes learning about things more fun, and I feel like I'm learning more. |
In other words, you are damn lazy. 
I attended a materials engineering course some time ago, so I'm not really an expert and the chance that you'll find an expert here is quite small, I dare to claim.
The first question is: When you talk about "heating a metal", what temperatures are you talking about and what material exactly? And how is the material cooled after the heating? Fast shock cooling or letting it cool slowly without additional cooling? You can't really talk about hose things generally, if you want to be serious about it. 
Edit: Ooohhh, Revv was faster.
__________________
Quote from one of our professors:
"Reality is hiding in the imaginary part."
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03-06-2007, 09:44 PM
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#4
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tl;dr
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 17,404
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Heating metal anneals it (metal working word for makes it soft again, working cool metal causes internal stresses making it hard). This assumes it is not a hardened metal (tempered). Heating a tempered peice of metal does weaken it and will make it more likely to snap under stress while the heat is applied. If it is only a temporary heating then it will depend on the temperatures and how long they are sustained.
Non-hardened metal also loses strength due to heat, but only when it is applied and not after the heat is gone. To cause non-hardened metal to break you need to flex it a lot which causes metal fatigue. Basically hair-line fissures and cracks at the stress point of the flex.
Folding metal is just a way of working it to create a better end product to withstand stresses applied.
Metal type and chosen end product are important in what you will do while creating the end product.
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03-06-2007, 10:22 PM
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#5
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Xtreme Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 379
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to elaborate on what STEvil said, folding was originally used by japanese swordsmiths to fold (literally) the red-hot iron in charcoal essentially increasing the carbon content of the iron and getting it closer to steel and also creates a crystalline structure on an atomic level strenghtening the blade.
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03-07-2007, 07:37 PM
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#6
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tl;dr
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 17,404
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I knew there as a part I was missing..
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03-10-2007, 07:28 AM
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#7
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Xtreme Addict
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Richmond VA. US
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Interesting, thanks guys.
__________________
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. - Albert Einstein
True wisdom is the ability to see past the limitations of knowledge. Insanity is knowing too much, and sanity is knowing too much about nothing important.
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03-10-2007, 08:00 AM
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#8
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BLAH!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some where cold.
Posts: 5,272
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I have a number of friends that have/collect/ are interested in Oriental blades and often I have heard talk of folding something like 200 times (don't quote me) to make a Katana/Samurai sword damn near un breakable.
How ever, on Mythbusters they were doing some experiments testing the "Sword Shattering/cut" myth.
The slow mo vidoes were WOW.
Using a REAL Japanese Katana and a few her swords, the bend of the blade when it was hit was AWSOME, the original sword with stood all of the newer imitation blades, if you can find the videos online watch them, you jaw will drop.
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Mammal brains are rather like the engines in American performance cars. We tend to use cubic inches to compensate for the lack of precision engineering.
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Movieman's alter ego ---------> SUPER MOD NOOB ADMIN!
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Originally Posted by nn_step
(A Professor to a class of students)
"If you put the sand into the jar first," he continued "there is no room for the pebbles or the rocks. The same goes for your life.
Take care of the rocks first - the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omastar
Those chubby chicks can be amazing in the sack sometimes, you know. (waits to be sigged) |
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03-24-2007, 11:41 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phelan1777
I have a number of friends that have/collect/ are interested in Oriental blades and often I have heard talk of folding something like 200 times (don't quote me) to make a Katana/Samurai sword damn near un breakable.
How ever, on Mythbusters they were doing some experiments testing the "Sword Shattering/cut" myth.
The slow mo vidoes were WOW.
Using a REAL Japanese Katana and a few her swords, the bend of the blade when it was hit was AWSOME, the original sword with stood all of the newer imitation blades, if you can find the videos online watch them, you jaw will drop.
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Some of your information is a bit off. Folding does not make a sword anything close to unbreakable. There are harder and tougher swords than can be made by folding using modern alloys and heat treating methods.
The only katana that survived both the Mythbusters "sword against sword" episode and "katana against machine gun barrel" episode was such a modern alloy blade (a Bright Knight S7 from AngelSword.com). ALL other blades, including those having thousands of layers, failed.
And yes the slo mo was awesome.
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03-24-2007, 10:05 PM
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#10
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tl;dr
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 17,404
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Higher carbon content makes the blade sharper for longer. Technically it would increase strength vs. thickness as well, but nothing compares to what is possible today.
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03-25-2007, 07:42 AM
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#11
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BLAH!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some where cold.
Posts: 5,272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angelsword@eart
Some of your information is a bit off. Folding does not make a sword anything close to unbreakable. There are harder and tougher swords than can be made by folding using modern alloys and heat treating methods.
The only katana that survived both the Mythbusters "sword against sword" episode and "katana against machine gun barrel" episode was such a modern alloy blade (a Bright Knight S7 from AngelSword.com). ALL other blades, including those having thousands of layers, failed.
And yes the slo mo was awesome.
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As I said, don't quote me, seems you misunderstood that.
I was simply stating things I heard and saw, not saying they were FACT.
__________________
Quote:
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Mammal brains are rather like the engines in American performance cars. We tend to use cubic inches to compensate for the lack of precision engineering.
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Movieman's alter ego ---------> SUPER MOD NOOB ADMIN!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
(A Professor to a class of students)
"If you put the sand into the jar first," he continued "there is no room for the pebbles or the rocks. The same goes for your life.
Take care of the rocks first - the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omastar
Those chubby chicks can be amazing in the sack sometimes, you know. (waits to be sigged) |
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