1st WC rig (100% passive, btw) - feedback needed

[Nazgul]

So, I've finally started my own got_a_bunch_of_noob_questions_about_WC thread Just try not to throw heavy things at me and everything will be ok

Now, first of all to make things clear – I do intend to build a 100% passively WC'ed system. The main reason is simple – (un)fortunately, I've got rather sensitive ears. For example, Yate Loons at 1200 rmp are LOUD for me, @5v is a must for them. So, why not go PA120.3 you ask? Well, I could've used it with the above mentioned YL@5v, but... here comes the second reason: fun. Really, there're like thousands of rigs with every possible combination of PA120.X, BI, heatercores and so on. Not much fan in building another one, even if it's better looking then most of them.
To tell the truth, initially I was planning to run a typical loop of CPU-GPU-NB-PA120.3, mainly because PA120.3 was considered to be absolutely superb to any common passive rad, unless you pay some $500 for it. But a couple of month ago I found out that there is a passive rad which costs very little and still performs on top with best rads. Guess everyone of you has seen this rad.
Yes, it's the central heating radiator And it does serve its purpose well. Just 3 sections of this type of rad passively cooled A64 Newcastle 3000+ @2650 1.85Vcore plus FX5950 (~1900XT in teams of heat) @some overclock. 3Dmark'03 gave cpu 53-54C with ambient 24. And another example with 4 sections kept E6600@3.86 plus some Vcore at 55C under TAT (while having Zalman blocks for CPU and 1900XTX).
So, there's no doubt that 6 sections (that's what I'll do) will keep my system at good temps. I'm not planning some extreme overclocks, so E6600@3.6-4 with some 8800GTS@700/1000 will do.

Summing it all up, I've chosen so far the following 2 loops (the order of the loop is preserved):
First loop (Tygon 1/2'' ID):
CPU – Swiftech Storm for a E6600
GPU – EK 8800 GTS Full Cover for a single 8800GTS
NB – Swiftech MCW30
Rad – 6 sections
Res
Pump – Grunfos UPS 25-40 (~ Iwaki MD20 I guess)
Second loop (Tygon 1/4'' ID):
RAM – MIPS rev. 4 RAM block
Mosfets: MIPS or EK's blocks (MB – Asus Commando)
PSU's waterblock - under R&D
Rad – 3 sections
HDDs: Koolance HD-50 on bottom and some kind of side block (both on each HDD)
Res
Pump - Grunfos UPS 25-40 (~ Iwaki MD20 I guess)

Koolance blocks with their Hydra Packs are the best possible waterblocks for HDD (and RAM, but that's too risky, so I've dropped that option), because they're able to contact with almost all surface of HDD's bottom board, and not only with highest of it's chips. And cooling from both sides and from bottom not only makes HDD as cool as possible, but also serves the other important purpose: I'll have 2 WD Raptors and I still need a completely inaudible system. So, this watercooled pile of HDDs will be placed in an isolated box with some noise dampering stuff all aroung HDDs. No noise, no vibration, no airflow, but still very cool.
That kind of WCed HDD's enclosure already has been done by Russian modders, so it really does work well.

All those thing will be put in a heavily modded Big Tower or even a custom-made case, so that things both look clean and work perfectly well. The only thing that's yet uncertain is the watercooling block for power supply, we've got just a couple of promising ideas. The problem is that one should isolate water from the electric current inside the block, while most PSUs do have current present on their build-in radiators. That’s why passive air cooling solution like this one can't be used – those heatpipes have about 300V on each, making it impossible to pair them with a good waterblock.

Now, I guess, it's finally time to start asking questions There they are:

1. So… really crazy, am I not?
2. I'll need some good 1/4'' ID fittings. Are there any G1/4'' threads with 1/4'' ID?
3. A question about hose clamps… Is there any performance difference between using worm drives and zip ties? I'm planning to use zip ties cuz there are UV-painted types on the market (and my case will be heavily UV-modded)
4. Guys, can you recommend some kind of thermal monitoring hardware with USB connection (so that I can monitor in through some software) or LCD display? I know there is that Aquaero, but it costs about $250… And different Hardcanos are primarily fan controllers, which I have little use of
5. Are there any other waterblocks options for my 2nd loop? Maybe I've missed some well-known top-performing block?

Well… that's all. For now, mind you. I'll be bringing forth new questions every day or two, so keep in touch!

[SkylinGTR26]

to answer #1, yes you are crazy! This is prolly this awsomest idea ive ever even read man, thanks for that you brightened my day alittle .
But IMO, this is a sweet build, oh and im ukrainian

[mcoffey]

What you didn't say is which exact proc and gpu's (how many) you will be cooling.

Great idea's and concept except for one thing IMO, the mem coolers. One, they are known to leak easily. The little sacks the fit between the casing and mem chips are easily punctured. Don't know of anyone that uses them. Two, much better WC mem coolers out there, so maybe a littel more research can help. Not sure how much you're planing to turn up the volts on your mem, so cooling them might not be that much of an issue. I'm cranking my OCZ DDR2 at 2.2 volts, and they don't get hot. But I have pretty good air flow moving across them, and the fan noise ( which is minimal on my build) might not work for you.

And, might not be as tuff as you think to get WC components that can use 1/2 inch fittings in your second loop which will really help the flow, might be worth your while checking on that.

Oh and Pentosin comes in both red and blue, and the best choice IMO for the fluid additives. Steel and copper won't have the sames issue as alum, and cooper, The metal nobility is much better between cooper and steel, thus not as much corrosion issues there.

Other than that, can't wait to see this monster come together, really cool concept.

You're gonna see some WTF posts, becuase some will say you don't need half the stuff, or to what level you're cooling it, but pay no attention.

gl and keep us posted.

andyc

[IanY]

Its possible. Buy multiple Thermochills. Run the fans at 5 volts. Something quiet like Nexus at 5 volts will be even more quiet. You can try running two fans on a triple radiator. I like using multiple Thermochills and use more than most people would care to count, let alone use.

Some fan is better than no fan. For crying out loud, DO NOT regard Yate Loons as the pinnacle of fans. Those are pure pieces of junk, and there are gazillion fans of higher quality (and much higher cost)... Quiet and cheap don't mix.. as you will find out.

[rbd89]

Hey no need to knock the Yates. Sure they not be the most silent fan, but in their price range, they are very hard to beat. Also btw, how many pa's are you going with iany? haha

[hopper]

im not a fan of hd coolers... when you go to a wc rig the case temp drops some already.... and its not like they go faster if they are cooler



iany... quiet and cheap work great for me

[serialk11r]

Hehehe have you heard of car radiators?

[IanY]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Hehehe have you heard of car radiators?

Ahhh... that would be nice if you were to have a 25 cm engine fan lol (and they are 12 volts too) lol

If you use a car radiator, your pump better be as powerful as an auto water pump. And no puny little Sti or WRX radiators for me lol They better be out of something big like a Maybach lol.. and I'll strap a couple of turbo intercoolers lol

OK I'll stop expressing more opinions before I cause more rage-induced heart attacks

[serialk11r]

Or the stainless steel pumps on mcmaster.com
Did you see the 800 dollar one? 32GPM at 50psi!!! I was like holy F*** when I saw that.

[IanY]

Sorry for the Yate Loon loving I'm dishing out Now, I'll go be quiet in my corner.

[rbd89]

Originally Posted by IanY

Sorry for the Yate Loon loving I'm dishing out Now, I'll go be quiet in my corner.

Haha no worries, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

[Nazgul]

SkylinGTR26
Thanks

mcoffey
Gonna cool E6600 with a single 8800GTS, both overclocked and overvolted. Plus some 2x1Gb OCZ at 2.2-2.4 for 4-4-4 at arount 1000-1100.

Originally Posted by mcoffey

Great idea's and concept except for one thing IMO, the mem coolers. One, they are known to leak easily. The little sacks the fit between the casing and mem chips are easily punctured. Don't know of anyone that uses them. Two, much better WC mem coolers out there, so maybe a littel more research can help.

That's bad Are there indeed known issues of these blocks' leakage during everyday operation (i.e. without some outer interference like changing RAM)? Because these are technically the best RAM blocks I've been able to find - they are the only ones that provide "direct" contact of water with chips. The second best block that I've found is the one from Thermaltake. All other blocks (like MIPS, for example) have separate heatspreaders placed on ramchips, which in turn are screwed to the actual waterblock via a narrow space.

Originally Posted by mcoffey

And, might not be as tuff as you think to get WC components that can use 1/2 inch fittings in your second loop which will really help the flow, might be worth your while checking on that.

I did try to find 1/2'' ones but that's seem impossible for the whole loop, so there's no point in going half 1/2'' half 1/4''. Or have I missed some sweet 1/2'' RAM, HDD or MOSFET blocks?

IanY
The second reason, which is "fun and challenge", prevents me from using ANY fans. Otherwise I would indeed go 120.3 + 120.2.
And YL I took just as an example, I know that Nexus or Noctua make far greater fans.

hopper

Originally Posted by hopper

im not a fan of hd coolers... when you go to a wc rig the case temp drops some already.... and its not like they go faster if they are cooler

On the one hand, every 5C down greatly lowers any chance of hdd failure. But what's more important - the noise. I'm gonna put all HDDs in an isolated box with NO airflow. So WC is a must.

serialk11r
Whatever they say, car rads are NOT supposed to be passively cooled, they have too high fins density. And more to say, I dont like their exterior

[perfection]

OMG that's crazy, good luck with it, will be interesting on how it comes out.

why do you want it 100% passive, don't like noise huh?

I'd watercool everything accept the HDDs, VRMs and PSU.

HDD would get heatsinks on them and a very low RPM fan, for silence.

VRMs would get Swiftech BGA heatsinks and a slow spinning 120mm fan over them.

and the PSU, just look for a really quiet one like Seasonic.

I've got a Coolermaster iGreen 600W and its completely inaudible.

I'm also using Coolink SWiF 120mm basic edition. they run at 900rpm and make about 14dcb, completly inaudible within 20cm.

you'll also need to keep in mind that every PC needs airflow, the motherboard itself can heat up and keep in mind your RAM if you don't have a WCing solution for that.



Grab yourself a massive car radiator and a very powerful pump. probably 2x Ehiem's 1250 running in series.

[Nazgul]

perfection
I'm doing it 100% passive not just because of the noise, but also for fun and challenge

As for the airflow - it will be present, the case will have its bottom and top perforated (see here and here), creating a natural airflow of hot air from bottom to top.

[celerity]

I just want to mention that Laing DCC is much more louder than 5V Yate. Actually the pump is the loudest component in my system.

[epion2985]

This might be of interest to you, voigts on OCF made a great passive system using a car (MG metro) radiator.
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.p...60#post3859360

[Fr3ak]

In Germany the MO-RA 2 Pro and MO-RA 2 Core are well known rads for passive usage.

On car rads the fins are often too close to eachother, so they are not perfect for passive use.

[Nazgul]

Originally Posted by celerity

I just want to mention that Laing DCC is much more louder than 5V Yate. Actually the pump is the loudest component in my system.

It is still the quietest pump there is (except for low-performance Eheims), isn't? And I'll surely make some noise dampering box for it.

epion2985
You know, it's almost a miracle that systems works. Well, he's got 40C under just video-encoding and that's @stock! E6600@3.8 + Vcore will give it 80C and BSOD after 5 minutes of TAT, IMO.

Anyway, I guess there's no chance of thorough comparing best rads from cars or whatever with my rad (I actually own 4 sections already), so I'll probably just use the one that I know for sure will work.

[mcoffey]

@Nazgul


Yes, I've heard several having problems with the mem coolers using foil sacks. They're hard to install without puncturing, you have to take off the heat spreaders most of the time, that leaves some sharp edges, and even tuffer to bleed the air out to get good performance. But I've never used them directly, becuase the last place you need a leak is over your DIMM slots. One thing for sure, I'd be more concerned about that part of your build than anything else, becuase if you spring a leak over the DIMM slots, it won't be pretty and ruin the great build you have planned. Just something to think about, but your results may very.

If your going with OCZ and want to WC, try this link. They are doing the F Flex at several different speeds. http://www.ocztechnology.com/product...lex_xlc_series
And yes, they're 1/4 fittings, so if one thing will be 1/4 inch in your 2nd loop, might as well stick with it IMO, but others may very. The mem cooling is the main thing stoping you from going 1/2 all the way thru your 2nd loop. Lots of mosfet and chip coolers at 1/2. Alphacool, EK, and MIP's as you pointed out.

Danger Den does have HD coolers using 1/2 fittings, but I don't have any direct experience cooling HD's, so I'll leave it up to you on deciding DD's HD blocks worth. Can't say whats good or bad in the HD cooling world. But there are quite a few different products out there for HD WC.

Again, you've really provided some great ideas and concepts. Great project, and I'm excited to see how it turns out.

gl and keep us posted,

andyc

[Nazgul]

mcoffey
Unfortunately, I've already got my mem ordered, so I won't buy another one. If only one could buy that FlexXLC Heatsink alone, without memory... Well, it seems i'll have to leave a thin copper plate on chips to avoid sharp edges.

[mcoffey]

Originally Posted by Nazgul

mcoffey
Unfortunately, I've already got my mem ordered, so I won't buy another one. If only one could buy that FlexXLC Heatsink alone, without memory... Well, it seems i'll have to leave a thin copper plate on chipse to avoid sharp edges.

Good luck,

Those mem coloers are designed to work without the mem heat spreaders, so you'll pretty much thwart the design by doing it like that.

But ambitous project non the less and very exciting.

andyc

[epion2985]

Originally Posted by Nazgul

It is still the quietest pump there is (except for low-performance Eheims), isn't? And I'll surely make some noise dampering box for it.

epion2985
You know, it's almost a miracle that systems works. Well, he's got 40C under just video-encoding and that's @stock! E6600@3.8 + Vcore will give it 80C and BSOD after 5 minutes of TAT, IMO.

Anyway, I guess there's no chance of thorough comparing best rads from cars or whatever with my rad (I actually own 4 sections already), so I'll probably just use the one that I know for sure will work.

I guess those are not the best temperatures. Honestly though I don't understand why you don't just use some silent fans as your pump will surely make more noise anyway.

Good luck on your project, keep us updated.

[ziddey]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Hehehe have you heard of car radiators?

I agree with this one. Sure they may have higher density, but the size is great. Also, here would be a neat idea for the OP, since passive was desired to be different.

Mod your side panel so that it houses a car radiator. This way, it can be passive, but at the same time, I'm assuming you'll have some sort of airflow in the case still, and it'll still draw that tiny bit of air through the radiator to make it a beast

[Nazgul]

Originally Posted by epion2985

Honestly though I don't understand why you don't just use some silent fans as your pump will surely make more noise anyway.

Nope, it won't I'll find some way to make it inaudible. The more challenges - the better Especially when I always have an opportunity to switch to silent fans and PA120.X if I get sick with trying to make it 100% passive and inaudible.

Btw, the actual assembling work on the project will begin only in mid July, when I get all the needed parts. Till then I'll be doing research & planning (like drawing the case in AutoCAD, developing a PSU waterblock, etc.).

Originally Posted by ziddey

This way, it can be passive, but at the same time, I'm assuming you'll have some sort of airflow in the case still, and it'll still draw that tiny bit of air through the radiator to make it a beast

Well, the airflow will be anyway from the bottom to the top and practical experience with passive air cooling shows that effective passive cooling starts with at least 3mm spacing between the fins, that's absolutely sure.

[epion2985]

ah, well good luck