First off, in light of TaPaKaH's recent admittance of faking everything, we're not scheming to get anyone, or anything like that. He did on his own. However, let's put that in perspective as well. We were all fooled for MONTHS. That's how possible, legitimate, and prevalent cheating really is....and it's a shame.
In zbogorgon's recent thread: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=125972 , he further elucidates how cheating can be done easily....he's due a lot of credit for coming forward and bringing this up, as well as recognizing where some cheating may exist.
Let's remember one key thing here....the methods that we know exist, speedhack linearly.
Well, SPi doesn't scale linearly, it's inversely proportional. You can't linearly generalize: 100MHz increase is equal to a given time decrease. However, you can say this: MHz * time ~= X, where X is constant for any given setup.
For a high speed, VERY well tweaked 975X + Conroe sytem, X is equal to about 50500. Remember this.
Let's take a look at some top SPI 1.5 results, taken from hwbot.org and from on the forum.
OPB - 5550 x 8.91 = 49451 (Oct 16) here
OPB - 5567 x 9.16 = 50994 (Oct 10) **
Maxxxpct - 5506 x 9.33 = 51370 Coolaler - 5525 x 9.00 = 49725Lookie here
TaPaKaH - 5408 x 9.36 = 50619
OPB - 5407 x 9.39 = 50772 (Sept 24) **
Memoryextreme Team - 5348 x 9.44 = 50485
Hipro5 - 5376 x 9.45 = 50803
OPB - 5329 x 9.55 = 50892 (Sept 8) **
ojdr2001 - 5348 x 9.55 = 51073
OPB - 5305 x 9.63 = 51087 (Sept 2) **
KP - 5297 x 9.68 = 51275
Hipro - 5217 x 9.72 = 50709
TaPaKaH - 5208 x 9.78 = 50934
zbogorgon - 5196 x 9.8 = 50920
hipro - 5138 x 9.89 = 50815
Kyosen - 4167 x 12.05 = 50212 Lookie here. FWIW, this is THE BEST clock-for-clock time to be found...that's legit at least
before - 5000 x 10.06 = 50300 Lookie here...look at that RAM speed!
kyosen - 9.937 x 5086 = 50540 Lookie here
See a trend? Known, reputable SuperPi GODS need lowish MHz, insane tweaks, and insane RAM to barely break below 50400.
Let's now take a look at Coolaler's progression, from slowest to fastest:
5200 x 9.72 = 50544 (July 12) here
5300 x 9.64 = 51092 (July 17) here
5396 x 9.485 = 51181 (July 18) here
5409 x 9.484 = 51299 (July 19) here
Now things begin to get funky 5485 x 9.204 = 50484 (July 23)here 5512 x 9.156 = 50468 (July 28)here
Now the grand finale: 5525 x 9.000 = 49725 (Aug 2) here
Not a single one of those final three has outstanding FSB/RAM speed or timings, not a single one has much headroom for MHz suicide stability....and are EXCEEDINGLY fast, especially considering his tweaking skills. Something changed....something we can't see.
Well, let's take a look at his results from above....see clock-for-clock improving over time? Then he drops the bomb: 8.906 at 5550. He also later shares all his tweaks, they're old, they don't do that much (if anything) on C2D, people have tried them. Then, if you also look back at his non-WR results, you see this gem:
4710 x 10.344 = 48720 here
....which is just crazy fast, fast to the point where he probably ran it at a higher speed than what he had in the screenshot.
Anyway, something's up with the orange and red results....they're just not legit. The green results are the best we could find....and are by known SPI legends, and have the hardware setting to backup the clock-for-clock greatness they have.
Looking at the top 250 results between hwbot.org and Coolaler and OPB's posts, and charting them in excel....well, pictures certainly can say a thousand words.
Quick explanation: each point represents a SPI run, look at the axis to tell what each graph is graphing....the "average" line is, based on the top 250 results and their clock-for-clock performance, that is the "average expected performance line". The "ideal" line is based on "50500"....a.k.a., a VERY well-tweaked system, and what you can expect as MHz changes.
Coolalers and OPB's results have been singled out so you can tell which are theirs. Picoo's recent run is also singled out as the new WR, and to show, that what is expected from an insanely tuned system from one of Team Japan's members.
Some sort of explanation is due....either it's a bug, a cheat, or a tweak that does what no other tweak can do in 1M: improve times by more than a few hundreths of a second.
sry, but why get all well respected overclockers flamed like this?
i cant believe everyone is thinking opb and coolaler are cheating! when coolaler first made those records, he was the absolute leader.. no one could beat his times sub 10seconds.. why should he cheat?
he could do a run @ 5ghz (9,8sec) and get the wr, or he could tweak the system as much as possible to show what is possible with the systems we own and make 9sec flat
the tweaks they use may be unfair, because no one else knows them, but team japan also used some tweaks like copying big files on the hdd...
What flame, what cheat accusation ?
All Vapor is saying is that the graphs show that their results are from the norm and therefore whether they are valid ?
We should not put a humanistic spin on things to try and validify things. The pure results speak for themselves.
I'm pretty sceptic about this thread. Once again, the people who don't reach great times start to complain about how impossible it is to have such low spi times.
BUT on the other hand, you have prouven a point by showing us the graphs. Before you make your final conclusion, I'd like to hear what the legends have to tell about this
sorry, but I need more than your equation to believe that coolar and OPB have done something Malicious, do they know something you don't, maybe. Not really sure this is the approiate way to go about questioning their results either.
woah, boys. this is not about cheating. It's about a new tweak it seems Vapor would like shared with all. BUt:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolaler
Speical Thanks to my Teammate,OPB's Opinion MSR for editor set
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnePageBook
mate,
For the tweak about explorer.exe shut down is not that nessary for getting faster result; on the other hand, set the real time for 1m is more than anything else!! that my two cents
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolaler
yes!OPB r right
if u off explore,that will be slower
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpulloverclock
Sorry Coolaler but something is weird in your 9.000s run
Here is your 9.156s score
Between the loop 19 and 20 there is a difference of 0.406s (normal)
Anyway, so, cpulloverclock concedes that result is valid, but still questions. After a PM session he gives up. Why? We wanna know.
Among the definitions of legitimate: 1) not spurious or unjustified; genuine and 2) in accordance with the laws of reasoning; logically inferable; logical
Does this mean cheating? No. Does it leave out cheating? No.
I'm just saying they're not legitimate.
I have listed my three suspected causes for why some of their results are, statistically, way out of the norm. To the point where not a single other person can, legitimately replicate or nearly replicate these results
These results need an explanation. Can anyone prove the legitimacy of the suspected results?
woah, boys. this is not about cheating. It's about a new tweak it seems Vapor would like shared with all. BUt:
Anyway, so, cpulloverclock concedes that result is valid, but still questions. After a PM session he gives up. Why? We wanna know.
Have fun!
There has been discussion regarding the Stripped down XP, priority RT, and killing explorer tweaks. From what I understood, those all give very very very minor performance boosts. We are talking multiple hundred mhz discrepancies, as I understand it.
Most glaring even besides the stark difference between these benchies and other Pi'ers benches is the difference between these benchies and the same user's previous benchies. Quite suddenly these benchers shave seconds off their times whereas the visible changes in their rigs don't demonstrate any reason why that should happen.
__________________
Only the stupidest humans believe that the dogma of relative filth is a defense.
If it's indeed all fake, hwbot will take further actions and delete his scores.
here ya go:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaPaKaH
Can you please ban me?
Reasons:
I`m a big faker
none of my results are true
I have never used any of xtreme cooling (DI/LN2)
sitting @ my PII-233 box
I hate XS
the member they talk about here http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=117280&page=3 is me
ATM I report that` I`m not mad at someone, not drunk, wasn`t hit on the street by the brick
That`s just my will.
I do not want to be an XS member anymore...
- Btw, my results are with lower clocks, but according to ya system, I hit around 49800-50000, does that make me a cheater?
Lower clocks makes that number lower, right ? Or is it linear @whatever clocks ?
Something to see this easy is to make at low speeds so everyone can make the tests.
@3500mhz I got 14,297secs with fat body @583 4-3-2-1 ( 2x512 ) which gaves me a nice ~50000 points. I know that it could be a bit better, not too much tho.
OPB made a run of 14,15secs @3,5ghz with 440 3-3-3 ram ( 2x1gb )
That made me think of it... Also one user which gets 14,25secs with an gigabyte 965p and ram similar to OPB.
There has been discussion regarding the Stripped down XP, priority RT, and killing explorer tweaks. From what I understood, those all give very very very minor performance boosts. We are talking multiple second discrepancies, as I understand it.
hey man, when i posted 8 second spi times i got grilled too. i thought result was legit, and can still to this day replicate it(hardware conflict with RAID drive without it's partner throws off hardware timer) on 3ghz Opty 148.
I found out why my result is borked, i wanna hear how this was done too. Don't get me wrong, I popped up relevant info because i have been following this for a while. Notice how my HWBOT has no SPI runs? i don't bother becasue those scores seem wrong to me too, and noone says nothing.
OPB abnd Coolaler are well respected overclockers. They are probably aware of tweaks that we arent. One tweak that seems to affect SPI times is msconfig's maxmem tweak. There has been many different opinion on what it should be. What if OPB and Coolaler have found the sweet spot? Also, I beleive after 2 runs of SPI you get a faster time (something to do with the files or so). Those are only a few. It could very well be a bug, but it will take a confession from them both for me to beleive that they cheated. No one else will convince me.
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