The Fermi Thread - Part 3

[zalbard]

If it is true at anything less than 1920x1200 8xAA very high settings, I'll be impressed. Otherwise

Exactly.
Hope this is true, though, would be worth the wait and increased power consumption at least.

since when did all of the 200 series reach eol?

A few months ago or so...

Definitely, but there is an exception with NV cards : 3D Vision.

ATI has this as well.

GTX480 machine power consumption at full load is nearly 130W more than HD5870 machine，full load temperature is 92℃.

I don't care much about extra 130W, but another melting card after my 8800 Ultra... No, thanks.

"Delta electronics inc" says it all. Performance before silence.

This fan has to be very loud at 100% I bet (knowing Delta this will probably run up to like 5500rpm if it is 70/72mm or whatever), maybe closed headphones starts becoming a recommendation soon. Luckily Delta fans usually scale well noise wise if you lower speeds and they have a tendency to last like forever.

5870's fan @ 100% is crazy, also, though.

[annihilat0r]

saaya: I think you missed that the guy reported %10 better perf. in Crysis of 470, not 480...

However, this still might be the 2560 + 4xAA case which says little...

[WeiT.235]

saaya: I think you missed that the guy reported %10 better perf. in Crysis of 470, not 480...

However, this still might be the 2560 + 4xAA case which says little...

agree, I guess the 5870 1g must be included for the bench, instead of 2gb version. In high setting like 2506x1600 in crysis, 1g version is easy to use out of the buffer.

[saaya]

saaya: I think you missed that the guy reported %10 better perf. in Crysis of 470, not 480...
However, this still might be the 2560 + 4xAA case which says little...

no, i didnt miss that...
but whats the difference between a 5870, 5850, gtx470 and gtx480?
unless you play at super high res you wouldnt be able to tell them apart by playing games on those rigs... same res, same aa, roughly same fps and min fps...

so one card is 5% faster here, another 10% there... that doesnt really make a difference, does it? i hope reviews will have oced vs oced comparisons as well, that would be interesting... especially for the 470...

[To(V)bo Co(V)bo]

no, i didnt miss that...
but whats the difference between a 5870, 5850, gtx470 and gtx480?
unless you play at super high res you wouldnt be able to tell them apart by playing games on those rigs... same res, same aa, roughly same fps and min fps...

Just ask my wife what a inch or two of e-peen can do. Its all about girth.. sorry, I mean bandwith.

Honestly, its all about the same with these new cards. Whatever works for your res is the best choice. My 5850 maxes out almost everything but crysis at 1080p. I cant really ask for much more for just gaming. I think it was one of the best purchases I have ever made. I would wait till a fermi refresh honestly, this first batch looks horrid. I predict a fermi refresh asap, fermi just isnt profitable in its current state.

I have a hard time spending more than 250$ on a piece of hardware I know is going to be outdated and worthless in 6 months. I am way happier spending less and upgrading more often.
Pc gaming is dying fast, the consoles and ports rule the market. ACCEPT IT

[WeiT.235]

must be the most power hungry config. ever...

[Sn0wm@n]

we might see 90 pages before the 6th of april LOLL

[annihilat0r]

we might see 90 pages before the 6th of april LOLL

yeah but at least reviewers have the cards now, any info leaking should be close to correct

[Sn0wm@n]

yeah but at least reviewers have the cards now, any info leaking should be close to correct

indeed..... we should prepare the anti depression med for the nvidia fanboys .....

[RPGWiZaRD]

It's like only 3 days left (it's past midnight here) and there's no comprehensive leaked stuff, yea the most important specs are revealed but nothing besides this, no trustworthy benchmarks etc. I must say this is very impressively kept secret. GT200 was kept quite secret until like a week beforehand, things started leaking out, benchmarks etc but even 3 days before fermi stuff is meant to be released no signs of real benchmarks etc. Congrats nvidia to this if nothing else.

[natty]

It's like only 3 days left (it's past midnight here) and there's no comprehensive leaked stuff, yea the most important specs are revealed but nothing besides this, no trustworthy benchmarks etc. I must say this is very impressively kept secret. GT200 was kept quite secret until like a week beforehand, things started leaking out, benchmarks etc but even 3 days before fermi stuff is meant to be released no signs of real benchmarks etc. Congrats nvidia to this if nothing else.

that's probably because no one is excited about the performance

[***Deimos***]

Your spouse/chiropractor laughed at you when you spent $400 on it.. now who's laughing!
1500W. Let that sink in.

mobo = 6pin = 75W, 8pin = 150W.
GTX480 = mobo + 6pin + 8pin = 300W max
GTX460 = mobo + 6pin + 6pin = 225W max

For 3x SLI need: 6 PCIE connectors, and 675-900W for video cards alone.
There are about a dozen 1100-1200W PSU on the market - which suddenly dont look so excessive. But most only have enough 6/8 pin PCIE connectors for 2 x GTX480 or 3x GTX470.

Newegg has three PSU with 8 PCIE connectors, and one amazing PSU has 4x 6pin, 4x 8pin . Sadly Antec only has 1200W - hardly enough for OC CPU AND Triple or Quad SLI.

PS: If they add even metal bars/rods along top of heatsink, it will leave the same marks as grill on your hamburgers

[Chumbucket843]

since when did all of the 200 series reach eol?

[weston]

since when did all of the 200 series reach eol?

They've been EOL for quite a while now, try to find a GTX 275 in stores...

the only one left is the 285 for a ridiculous $375 which is close to the 5870. How much longer do we have to wait!!?!?!?!?

5 price brackets. 2 years. 5 products. 1 chip = whole lotta slackers

Don't forget about the G92 which is still goin strong in the low end, but can't really compete with ATI anymore in price. I think the G92 will never go EOL...just keep puttin them out

[***Deimos***]

They've been EOL for quite a while now, try to find a GTX 275 in stores...

the only one left is the 285 for a ridiculous $375 which is close to the 5870. How much longer do we have to wait!!?!?!?!?



Don't forget about the G92 which is still goin strong in the low end, but can't really compete with ATI anymore in price. I think the G92 will never go EOL...just keep puttin them out

I can only think of 9, maybe 11 G92 products... (GT330 is probably that 40nm chip)

	The Life of Jeremy Bentham 	
Nov-10	8800 GT	
Dec-07	8800 GTS 512MB	
Jan-08	8800 GS	
Mar-08	9800GX2	
Apr-08	9800 GTX	
May-08	9600 GSO	
Jul-08	9800 GTX+	9800 GT
Mar-09	GTS150	GTS250
Feb-10	GT330?

April 2010 - the all new, super uber cool, GTS450 (Iron Man2 edition) - c'mon nVidia, no need to hide those PR slides, we ALL knew another G92 was coming.

We all had a good ride.. now its time to take old Yeller out back with the shotgun. Common, old boy, dont stare at me with those big round puppy eyes - ugh I cant do it - ok ok this is last and final year, I promise

[weston]

I can only think of 9, maybe 11 G92 products... (GT330 is probably that 40nm chip)

	The Life of Jeremy Bentham 	
Nov-10	8800 GT	
Dec-07	8800 GTS 512MB	
Jan-08	8800 GS	
Mar-08	9800GX2	
Apr-08	9800 GTX	
May-08	9600 GSO	
Jul-08	9800 GTX+	9800 GT
Mar-09	GTS150	GTS250
Feb-10	GT330?

April 2010 - the all new, super uber cool, GTS450 (Iron Man2 edition) - c'mon nVidia, no need to hide those PR slides, we ALL knew another G92 was coming.

We all had a good ride.. now its time to take old Yeller out back with the shotgun. Common, old boy, dont stare at me with those big round puppy eyes - ugh I cant do it - ok ok this is last and final year, I promise

LOL you are a shining light of humor in this endlessly repetitive thread! keep it up

[Sn0wm@n]

I can only think of 9, maybe 11 G92 products... (GT330 is probably that 40nm chip)

	The Life of Jeremy Bentham 	
Nov-10	8800 GT	
Dec-07	8800 GTS 512MB	
Jan-08	8800 GS	
Mar-08	9800GX2	
Apr-08	9800 GTX	
May-08	9600 GSO	
Jul-08	9800 GTX+	9800 GT
Mar-09	GTS150	GTS250
Feb-10	GT330?

April 2010 - the all new, super uber cool, GTS450 (Iron Man2 edition) - c'mon nVidia, no need to hide those PR slides, we ALL knew another G92 was coming.

We all had a good ride.. now its time to take old Yeller out back with the shotgun. Common, old boy, dont stare at me with those big round puppy eyes - ugh I cant do it - ok ok this is last and final year, I promise

LOL and another good ol rebrand demanded by the oem ..... sure ... ty nvidia .... ty

[GoldenTiger]

I can only think of 9, maybe 11 G92 products... (GT330 is probably that 40nm chip)

	The Life of Jeremy Bentham 	
Nov-10	8800 GT	
Dec-07	8800 GTS 512MB	
Jan-08	8800 GS	
Mar-08	9800GX2	
Apr-08	9800 GTX	
May-08	9600 GSO	
Jul-08	9800 GTX+	9800 GT
Mar-09	GTS150	GTS250
Feb-10	GT330?

April 2010 - the all new, super uber cool, GTS450 (Iron Man2 edition) - c'mon nVidia, no need to hide those PR slides, we ALL knew another G92 was coming.

We all had a good ride.. now its time to take old Yeller out back with the shotgun. Common, old boy, dont stare at me with those big round puppy eyes - ugh I cant do it - ok ok this is last and final year, I promise

LOL. 9600 GSO had two versions that were fairly different products as well: a 96sp version with 192/384-bit bus width based on 384mb or 768mb of RAM, and a 48sp version with 256-bit bus.

[FischOderAal]

Your posts are (in general) good reads Deimos. Either full of information, full of teh lolz (not in a negative way!) or both

[cegras]

You're missing the overall point - which is what many people do when they are backed into the corner by a sound argument supported by facts.

[Chumbucket843]

well if deimos could clarify his original point that would help. are you talking about rebrands or just different sku's based off of g92? there is a difference all you have to do is look

9800gtx

gt330

g92 was a great architecture, nvidia just cant get enough of it, the consumers might have a different opinion.

[***Deimos***]

well if deimos could clarify his original point that would help. are you talking about rebrands or just different sku's based off of g92? there is a difference all you have to do is look

I think the pattern is fairly obvious. All except probaby GT330, use "G92 and/or G92b".. ie the same chip.

Is 8800GS a rebrand? 9800GX2? I guess you could say GTS250 is a rebrand, but it has different PCB, memory, heatsink. box!! etc.

=============

G200 eol a good thing?
Imagine you bought a GTX275 or worse, a GTX295 yesterday. Week later, your "investment" resembles those GM stocks you thought would be a good idea.

============

Those arguing not to worry if nVidia loses money on GTX470.
So how do they recuperate several $100m of R&D expense?
Uber super cool and brand new DX10 G92 products?
Those high margin non-existent DX11 cards that haven't launched?
Perhaps the millions of Tesla products you see every teen in school buying?

What is my point?

GTX 280 launced with MSRP of $650. Because of AMD's 4870, it was reduced a week later to $500. Lets pretend board has fixed cost of $300. That's difference of $350 vs $200 for profit... or almost half as much.

Fastforward a 2 years later, and nVidia is still hasn't learned. Boards and chips are bigger, hotter and more expensive to make.

Everything else being equal, consumers would probably buy:
- cooler/lower-power product
- higher performance
- nVidia if it still represents great brand name image - questionable?

So, you can't just say 10% higher performance, so we'll make MSRP 10% higher - need to factor in cons of power/heat/availability. Things would be rosy if a 384 bit board, 50% more DRAM chips, and 50% bigger die with low yields only added 10% more to costs. Very likely a lot lot more.

With 0 competition, AMD has sold millions of DX11 products and made mucho $$$. nVidia is at $0.00 And, people who already own a DX11 card, are unlikely to "upgrade".

So, just like AMD with Phenom(1), how do you sell the product?:
- lower price? -> temporary gain in marketshare at expense of less profits.
- lower power? -> trouble enough as it is getting working dies
- higher clocks? -> power is already very high
- lower costs? -> would you buy more expensive 768MB card? What if "some assembly required"?
- PhysX marketing? -> trouble is, its nothing new since all GF8/9/200 have it.
- DX11 promotion? -> sucks you spent last 6 months saying its not a big deal.
- CUDA GPGPU apps? -> its nice bonus. People don't buy $500 video cards to accelerate their Adobe PDF Reader.
- EyeInfinity? -> Don't got none.

The desperate "solution" is the same as it was in fx era... its the only thing you can really change...
questionable driver optimizations at the expense of rendering quality and driver stability.

Ofcourse like G80, about a year later they're gonna have a 32/28nm 448SP 256bit 1GB GDDR5 board. They're gonna call it "480GT"

[highoctane]

Fastforward a 2 years later, and nVidia is still hasn't learned. Boards and chips are bigger, hotter and more expensive to make.

How is this different from ATI when compared to their previous gen, the boards and chips are bigger, hotter and of course more expensive to make as well.

With 0 competition, AMD has sold millions of DX11 products and made mucho $$$. nVidia is at $0.00 And, people who already own a DX11 card, are unlikely to "upgrade".

As far as dx11 sure but obviously with the inventory shortages at etailers that is a clear indicator nvidia have managed to sell off inventory easily even in light of ATI's dx11 & performance advantage.

I think you're blowing the desperation of the market out of proportion, graphics cards don't sell to the masses like iphones or something. Just because DX11 or newer faster hardware is released the majority of users aren't running out and buying new hardware simply because there is new hardware released, not everybody lives on the bleeding edge of tech.

And if you're worried that the card you bought today may be obsolete a month later when a new model comes out well you need a new hobby. We all know there is new hardware always around the corner and if you don't time your purchase early in the cycle your hardware will be superseded sooner or possibly the same day you make your purchase.

[TurboDiv]

500$ for GTX 480 with 8% more HP and a bunch more watts over a 400$ 5870 which will drop in price when GTX480 comes out. I don't know guys,I know i will wait a little before I dump my cash...

[Sn0wm@n]

G92 will never die ....