AMD Mantle update...

[NKrader]

i installed these beta drivers.. now artifacts all over the place when mining LOL...

time to roll back tonight

[Heinz68]

i installed these beta drivers.. now artifacts all over the place when mining LOL...

time to roll back tonight

I'm still on 13.12, mining or not I think they're the best drivers if not testing MANTLE, at least for Windows 7

[DefStar]

Interesting that 14.1 and 14.2 seem to lower performance. Possibly due to stabilizing frame times?

Exactly... a very good point, frame pacing is enabled by default.

On a side note, Crossfire didn't work in Titanfall beta so I would expect a new driver by the 11th.
...Edit: Or not

[Heinz68]

"Mantle patch for Thief now live alongside AMD Catalyst 14.3 Beta drivers"

Read more at TechSpot

14.3 Beta V1.0 Driver and release notes LINK

[vario]

Thief mantle update :-)

FX 8350 :-)


i5 4670K


FX 4350@4.7Ghz

[tbone8ty]

Wccftech has a article up to

[tajoh111]

Thief mantle update :-)

FX 8350 :-)


i5 4670K


FX 4350@4.7Ghz

I don't know about you, but an indirect message I get from these charts is don't buy an AMD CPU for gaming, as they perform generally crummy without mantle being present.

The AMD CPU(8350) without mantle which is most games, loses to the more or less equivalently priced, 4670k by 20%+. 20% +percent is nothing to scoff at and gamers pay hundreds of dollars for such a difference.

The 60% difference between the 4670k and the fx4350 is gigantic. A person is making such a compromise when they are building a budget system with an AMD CPU.

Its easy to get the message from these charts just buy an Intel CPU and you don't have to worry about mantle being present or not.

[vario]

I don't know about you, but an indirect message I get from these charts is don't buy an AMD CPU for gaming, as they perform generally crummy without mantle being present.

The AMD CPU(8350) without mantle which is most games, loses to the more or less equivalently priced, 4670k by 20%+. 20% +percent is nothing to scoff at and gamers pay hundreds of dollars for such a difference.

The 60% difference between the 4670k and the fx4350 is gigantic. A person is making such a compromise when they are building a budget system with an AMD CPU.

Its easy to get the message from these charts just buy an Intel CPU and you don't have to worry about mantle being present or not.

Also.Not all intel cpu`s are 4670K and up.Also, theres this thing, crossfire, which eventually can bog down any cpu.Also, it helps to know there are more powerful amd gfx cards coming...
Also yes yes yes, if mantle gives a huge boost when theres gfx/cpu disparity,only logical conclusion is to buy intel alongside nvidia .The more you know.

also

The 60% difference between the 4670k and the fx4350 is gigantic

No $ hit sherlock did you come up with this on your own ?
I could go on but it would sidetrack the topic, which is mantle dude.
Does it help when you have slower cpu ? You bet it does!
Does it help when you have fast cpu ? Still do sheriff.

[tajoh111]

Also.Not all intel cpu`s are 4670K and up.Also, theres this thing, crossfire, which eventually can bog down any cpu.Also, it helps to know there are more powerful amd gfx cards coming...
Also yes yes yes, if mantle gives a huge boost when theres gfx/cpu disparity,only logical conclusion is to buy intel alongside nvidia .The more you know.

also


No $ hit sherlock did you come up with this on your own ?
I could go on but it would sidetrack the topic, which is mantle dude.
Does it help when you have slower cpu ? You bet it does!
Does it help when you have fast cpu ? Still do sheriff.

No one is saying you have to buy a nvidia solution. But you have to remember most people go for a single card and the price of the 4670k and fx8350 are both around 200 dollars.

Without mantle running the difference between the cards is 20+% with a 290x. This is significant and companies charge a lot for this difference at the high end. E.g 290--> 290x, 5-10% difference, 150 dollar difference in msrp. gtx 780 --> gtx 780 ti, $199 difference in msrp.

With mantle, the difference with a high end GPU shrinks down to a few percent.

But without it the difference is significant which tests like these show. Test that isolate certain testing conditions like the ones shown here to show the strengths of mantle, show how badly AMD CPU's perform in some games mixed with a powerful GPU.

If mantle was present in 99% percent of games, then one could make a better argument that with price being equal, the AMD solution is just a viable solution for gaming as the Intel one.

However with mantle being present in two games at the moment, your far more future proof buying an Intel solution as you don't need to worry about mantle adoption(and the intel processor still performs better when mantle is on both solutions).

[vario]

No one is saying you have to buy a nvidia solution. But you have to remember most people go for a single card and the price of the 4670k and fx8350 are both around 200 dollars.

Without mantle running the difference between the cards is 20+% with a 290x. This is significant and companies charge a lot for this difference at the high end. E.g 290--> 290x, 5-10% difference, 150 dollar difference in msrp. gtx 780 --> gtx 780 ti, $199 difference in msrp.

With mantle, the difference with a high end GPU shrinks down to a few percent.

But without it the difference is significant which tests like these show. Test that isolate certain testing conditions like the ones shown here to show the strengths of mantle, show how badly AMD CPU's perform in some games mixed with a powerful GPU.

If mantle was present in 99% percent of games, then one could make a better argument that with price being equal, the AMD solution is just a viable solution for gaming as the Intel one.

However with mantle being present in two games at the moment, your far more future proof buying an Intel solution as you don't need to worry about mantle adoption(and the intel processor still performs better when mantle is on both solutions).

Its like a broken record.
This a mantle topic is.
Somehow you twist it into ,"well mantle only shows how sucky amd cpus are, and with intels you dont need amd gpu"
You really dont see what youre doin ?
NOBODY IS TELLIN PEOPLE TO BUY AMD CPU BECAUSE OF MANTLE.It means LITERALLY MILLIONS of people with weaker CPU`s (be it amd OR intel) may be better off just buying powerful mantle enabled gpu instead of whole system ,as we all know now, it doesnt even mean mantle only anymore, ms and khronos group have moved their assess at last and we can expect similar (albeit probably not as pronounced) changes in both DX and OpenGL.And that most probably is because of AMD and mantle!
Secondly, you critically MISS all other reasons why mantle is good, you focus on one (STILL NOT BAD!) example when mantle gives you only few to ten % while also bringing up Min fps... yea damn, what a suck this mantle thing is.
So, get to your head that, nobody here is saying or ever was that amd cpus are a good buy now because of mantle.In some specific situations they might, but mostly still arent.However the need to upgrade is not gonna be as pronounced be it intel or amd .
Also for your enlightment:
4670K 239$
FX 8350 199$
FX 8320 159$ this is essentially the same cpu as 8350
and FX 4350 for some unknown reason you compared to 4670K is 139$ so if you take 139$ and add 60% to it ,you still wont get 4670K price...
Also FX 6300 is 119$ and thats the value CPU someone who already has am3+ mobo would be buyin


There is literally NO downside to mantle.Yet.You whine.

[blindbox]

There is literally NO downside to mantle.Yet.You whine.

What the hell? He wasn't even talking about Mantle. His comments was not focused on Mantle at all. All he said is, if you're gaming, you should buy a similar-priced intel CPU because it offers better performance, with or without Mantle. Come on guys, be a little objective rather than fanboy-heavy. I love Mantle myself but there's no reason to say all that to tajoh111 when he wasn't even talking about Mantle in the first place.

[tajoh111]

Its like a broken record.
This a mantle topic is.
Somehow you twist it into ,"well mantle only shows how sucky amd cpus are, and with intels you dont need amd gpu"
You really dont see what youre doin ?
NOBODY IS TELLIN PEOPLE TO BUY AMD CPU BECAUSE OF MANTLE.It means LITERALLY MILLIONS of people with weaker CPU`s (be it amd OR intel) may be better off just buying powerful mantle enabled gpu instead of whole system ,as we all know now, it doesnt even mean mantle only anymore, ms and khronos group have moved their assess at last and we can expect similar (albeit probably not as pronounced) changes in both DX and OpenGL.And that most probably is because of AMD and mantle!
Secondly, you critically MISS all other reasons why mantle is good, you focus on one (STILL NOT BAD!) example when mantle gives you only few to ten % while also bringing up Min fps... yea damn, what a suck this mantle thing is.
So, get to your head that, nobody here is saying or ever was that amd cpus are a good buy now because of mantle.In some specific situations they might, but mostly still arent.However the need to upgrade is not gonna be as pronounced be it intel or amd .
Also for your enlightment:
4670K 239$
FX 8350 199$
FX 8320 159$ this is essentially the same cpu as 8350
and FX 4350 for some unknown reason you compared to 4670K is 139$ so if you take 139$ and add 60% to it ,you still wont get 4670K price...
Also FX 6300 is 119$ and thats the value CPU someone who already has am3+ mobo would be buyin


There is literally NO downside to mantle.Yet.You whine.

I haven't said a bad thing about mantle.

All I am saying is mantle testing methodology make AMD processor look bad. Without mantle, which is 99% of games, these charts make AMD cpu's look slow. 20% + is pretty huge and how these review websites test to see how much mantle improves performance makes AMD CPU look bad.

I.e
They isolate an AMD processor and it's Intel equivalent in a comparison(this highlights the difference).
They show without Mantle, AMD processors significantly behind the Intel processor(this is the anti advertising).
And with Mantle, the Intel processor is still ahead, just not as significantly(a slight positive take-away for the AMD processor).

What Mantle does show in a positive manner is that AMD CPU have a lot to gain from mantle, but almost too much. The reason I say too much is because without it as seen it graphs like that review, games perform bad without mantle.....and that is most games.

It wouldn't be so illustrative of this, if the Intel and AMD CPU, were closers and gained a similar amount pre and post mantle use.

[kuroikenshi]

so I take a few weeks off posting.. nothing has changed, Tajoh101 still de-rails threads on a full time basis.

so you got a job yet?

[vario]

.... His comments was not focused on Mantle at all. ...

Thats the point, his talking about NOT MANTLE AT ALL, while passive agressively bashing mantle at the same occasion...
And derailing another thread.

And theres some actually ON TOPIC things about mantle he could complain, like negative performance increases in some cases on 260X or the thing that its still in beta and were in march already.

[Jethro]

I cant believe in 11+ years of coming to xtremesystems I have never put anyone on ignore status, until now. Goodbye Tajoh. I wont miss you.

Mantle seems to be for real. I hope it keeps getting developed.

[blindbox]

Thats the point, his talking about NOT MANTLE AT ALL, while passive agressively bashing mantle at the same occasion...
And derailing another thread.

And theres some actually ON TOPIC things about mantle he could complain, like negative performance increases in some cases on 260X or the thing that its still in beta and were in march already.

I definitely agree with you on him derailing the thread. That reminded me of Particle's sig.

I like how AMD put things that are beta on beta. At least they're admitting some driver versions simply suck for one reason or another rather than throwing all of them into WHQL. If a beta doesn't work, I just revert to a WHQL and so far, that has gone well for me, for a single card user.

[Tim]

Great posts tajoh111, nothing to worry about. Getting a bit tired of some of these people on here to be honest. Absolutely ridiculous.

[Iconyu]

Crytek bring Mantle support to CryEngine https://twitter.com/repi/status/446391703453184000

[Lanek]

Crytek bring Mantle support to CryEngine https://twitter.com/repi/status/446391703453184000

i have got the information a bit late it seems.. It seems logical looking some games who use CryEngine was allready announce supporting Mantle thoses next years. At this rythm only Unreal Engine will not support it ( who will not be a suprise ) ..

[BeepBeep2]

Mantle improves GPU performance while also greatly decreasing CPU overhead.
Isn't that just a great thing, and can't we rejoice in the ability to utilize cheap / power hungry / slow AMD CPUs with our $400 graphics cards?

Okay, I'm being a little harsh. I think Mantle is a great thing and improves user experience for engines which benefit from it. I think it's great.

[vario]

Mantle improves GPU performance while also greatly decreasing CPU overhead.
Isn't that just a great thing, and can't we rejoice in the ability to utilize cheap / power hungry / slow AMD CPUs with our $400 graphics cards?

Okay, I'm being a little harsh. I think Mantle is a great thing and improves user experience for engines which benefit from it. I think it's great.

Was that an attempt at sarcasm beep :-) ? Anyhow anybody who says mantle will be useful only for people with amd cpus is just plain wrong.



Here we see the lowering of performance with 260X tho, thats why i dont like this whole beta thing after all this time.I understand AMD has to many things on its plate and too few people, but for christ sakes they should start being a lot more open about their stuff.

[Hornet331]

Was that an attempt at sarcasm beep :-) ? Anyhow anybody who says mantle will be useful only for people with amd cpus is just plain wrong.



Here we see the lowering of performance with 260X tho, thats why i dont like this whole beta thing after all this time.I understand AMD has to many things on its plate and too few people, but for christ sakes they should start being a lot more open about their stuff.

well this graph only shows what we allreay know, when a game is limited by the gpu you won't see much gain from mantle at all (and as you mentioned even see performance reductions in some cases).

For me in the end mantel is a so-so solution, if you really want better performance across the board you can't overcome the purchace of more powerful components.
The best thing so far that spawned from mantle is that both ogl and dx now focus more on lowering/optimizing there overhead.

[Iconyu]

well this graph only shows what we allreay know, when a game is limited by the gpu you won't see much gain from mantle at all (and as you mentioned even see performance reductions in some cases).

For me in the end mantel is a so-so solution, if you really want better performance across the board you can't overcome the purchace of more powerful components.
The best thing so far that spawned from mantle is that both ogl and dx now focus more on lowering/optimizing there overhead.

I actually think minimum frame rates is the most impressive gain you could get, and if you are a multi GPU user you get FPS gains across the board, the CPU doesn't hold you back. It seems not a big deal today, but in six/nine months time when Nvidia cards are CPU bottlenecked at 1080p and AMD are benching their 20nm cards on BF4 at 1080p without a CPU bottleneck Mantle will look much better.

Edit: Let me give you something to think on, how big is the gap between the 580GTX and the 680GTX vs the 2600k and the 4770k in terms of gaming performance and how many years do you think it will take before the gap is so big, no CPU you could buy could release the potential of a top end GPU?

[Final8ty]

BF4 Integrates FCAT Overlay Support

Back in September AMD publicly announced Mantle, a new lower level API meant to offer more performance for gamers and more control for developers fed up with the restrictions of DirectX. Without diving too much into the politics of the release, the fact that Battlefield 4 developer DICE was integrating Mantle into the Frostbite engine for Battlefield was a huge proof point for the technology. Even though the release was a bit later than AMD had promised us, coming at the end of January 2014, one of the biggest PC games on the market today had integrated a proprietary AMD API.

When I did my first performance preview of BF4 with Mantle on February 1st, the results were mixed but we had other issues to deal with. First and foremost, our primary graphics testing methodology, called Frame Rating, wasn't able to be integrated due to the change of API. Instead we were forced to use an in-game frame rate counter built by DICE which worked fine, but didn't give us the fine grain data we really wanted to put the platform to the test. It worked, but we wanted more. Today we are happy to announce we have full support for our Frame Rating and FCAT testing with BF4 running under Mantle.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphic...rformance-FCAT



This info as come to light that there is more than 1 frame pacing method built into BF4.

From the Lt.

LT has been hard at work. in his conversation with Johan yesterday on twitter he told me that there is two different frame pacing methods. Tell people to type RenderDevice.FramePacingMethod 1 into the console. It works wonderfully and gives the same fps as with it disabled. Method 2 (default since the patch) is what hits fps hard but gives the most consistent and tight (ridiculously so) frame times, hence the lower fps. Check my attached screenshots and post them to the thread. Look at the fps gain while using Method 1 vs Method 2. Incidentally frame pacing is so tight and consistent i cannot tell a difference between both on or off regardless of method used.


Frame Pacing Method 1




Frame Pacing Method 2

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...7&postcount=14

[blindbox]

Was that an attempt at sarcasm beep :-) ? Anyhow anybody who says mantle will be useful only for people with amd cpus is just plain wrong.

[/IMG]http://pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/chaostheory/2014/03/thief_mantle/charts/thief_mantle_gpu.png[/IMG]

Here we see the lowering of performance with 260X tho, thats why i dont like this whole beta thing after all this time.I understand AMD has to many things on its plate and too few people, but for christ sakes they should start being a lot more open about their stuff.

We're only about 2 months into the Mantle beta: February and March. That's not terribly long yet for complex code. Plus, they've already given an estimate for the public SDK, which is later this year.