AMD Mantle update...

[LordEC911]

Booooooo!!!!

7950 here.

Actually it seems they are referring to the driver, I seemed to have misread the original info.

AMD Catalyst 14.1 Beta will support ALL desktop GCN products, though we are working with EA to further optimize performance on 280X, 270X, HD 7000 and HD 8000. We have asked EA to update their blog to reflect this.

[demonkevy666]

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4...50493815503479

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4...4-mantle-live/

^ blog links if you wanted to know

[tajoh111]

??? I thought the slides said CPU-bound things would get the most improvement. Generally when I think CPU-bound I think high-end GPU(s)...

Its the opposite kind of. It happens when you use crappy settings where the GPU is too fast and the CPU is holding the system back or when you use a crappy CPU with a mid to high end GPU, and the GPU is held back by the GPU. However in the latter case, if you use high enough settings, the GPU becomes the bottleneck(GPU bound) and as long as your not using a low end CPU, your getting the same frame rates pretty much no matter what the CPU.

10% in the high end range is significant. Its means quite a bit with the close race between Nvidia and AMD currently. However considering AMD given numbers(reviewers guide graphs and performance graphs)recently, I expect those percentages to be cut in half or atleast by 25%. However even at 5%, it still pretty significant. However it requires higher game adoption to be a game changer for AMD.

After looking at these graphs Mantle doesn't appear to be as much a GPU seller as a CPU seller. Mantle looks more to significantly improve the performance of systems with cheaper AMD APU's more than anything. Mixing a high end Intel with high end GPU gives much lesser benefits for mantle. Particularly when so little titles support it.

One new problem I can see popping up is people that own HP or cheaper Dells boxes sold at big box stores thinking they can add any AMD videocard to their system. Sure they might be less CPU bound than before, but cheaper OEM boxes were only meant for mid range GPU's at best. Alot of these system come with 250-300w power supplies and have little to no airflow(hence their quietness). Thus Mantle really just disguises some problems and open up new bottle necks in their system.

[Sparky]

Well, if anyone has a low-mid range dell box there are always going to be bottlenecks. But every little bit will help.

I have never tried running BF4 on my laptop with the A10-4600M. Maybe I should, before and after Mantle, and see what the difference is lol (not that I'd care to run BF4 on there usually).

[Stukov]

Anyone see any benchmarks that work like this?

Low CPU + High GPU
Mid CPU + High GPU
High CPU + High GPU

Low CPU + Mid GPU
Mid CPU + Mid GPU
High CPU + Mid GPU

Low CPU + Low GPU
Mid CPU + Low GPU
High CPU + Low GPU

I would like to see the comparison to see which of these combinations make the greatest difference in terms of % difference with Mantle.

[madcho]

Anyone see any benchmarks that work like this?

Low CPU + High GPU
Mid CPU + High GPU
High CPU + High GPU

Low CPU + Mid GPU
Mid CPU + Mid GPU
High CPU + Mid GPU

Low CPU + Low GPU
Mid CPU + Low GPU
High CPU + Low GPU

I would like to see the comparison to see which of these combinations make the greatest difference in terms of % difference with Mantle.

Looks that dual graphics will profit the most.

It?s gonna be higher % for the same gpu, going towards with low end CPU.

Crossfire setups have a very high cpu demand. So it's normal that the profit will be huge.

[Lightman]

There is one more advantage to Mantle in BF4 clearly seen on the pictures in DICE blog announcing patch.
Just look at the frame time graphs in the bottom left corner of screenshots and compare DX11 and Mantle. What do you see?

[behrouz]

Compare to DX11 , Mantle gives lower latency but look at numbers ,on Kaveri for Mantle rendering:

Cpu : 26.73 , 23.29 , 17.50 , max = 45.76
GPU : 23.03 , 22.67 , 19.70 , max = 24.60

for DX11 rendering :
Cpu : 21.95 , 26.60 , 15.15 , max = 33.60
GPU : 27.71, 26.44 , 22.78, max = 33.14

so for Cpu number : 33.60 ==> 45.76 but for Gpu number : 33.14 ==> 24.60 .i thought mantle was supposed to improve both Gpu and Cpu ?

Edit: on 8350 and i7 3970x , both numbers for mantle are lower than DX11????

[Evantaur]

"AMD Catalyst 14.1 Beta will support ALL desktop GCN products, though we are working with EA to further optimize performance on 280X, 270X, HD 7000 and HD 8000. We have asked EA to update their blog to reflect this."

[Hornet331]

Compare to DX11 , Mantle gives lower latency but look at numbers ,on Kaveri for Mantle rendering:

Cpu : 26.73 , 23.29 , 17.50 , max = 45.76
GPU : 23.03 , 22.67 , 19.70 , max = 24.60

for DX11 rendering :
Cpu : 21.95 , 26.60 , 15.15 , max = 33.60
GPU : 27.71, 26.44 , 22.78, max = 33.14

so for Cpu number : 33.60 ==> 45.76 but for Gpu number : 33.14 ==> 24.60 .i thought mantle was supposed to improve both Gpu and Cpu ?

Edit: on 8350 and i7 3970x , both numbers for mantle are lower than DX11????

they show frame latency, not fps. Lower latency between frames = higher fps

There is one more advantage to Mantle in BF4 clearly seen on the pictures in DICE blog announcing patch.
Just look at the frame time graphs in the bottom left corner of screenshots and compare DX11 and Mantle. What do you see?

one with working frame pacing one without?

whats even more funny BF3 had working frame pacing in dx.

Hell they even managed better pacing with xfire:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7195/a...lorer-cat138/5

don't know what dice again did to made it worse for single cards.

[blindbox]

Star Swarm demo is out on Steam, by the way.

[blindbox]

Compare to DX11 , Mantle gives lower latency but look at numbers ,on Kaveri for Mantle rendering:

Cpu : 26.73 , 23.29 , 17.50 , max = 45.76
GPU : 23.03 , 22.67 , 19.70 , max = 24.60

for DX11 rendering :
Cpu : 21.95 , 26.60 , 15.15 , max = 33.60
GPU : 27.71, 26.44 , 22.78, max = 33.14

so for Cpu number : 33.60 ==> 45.76 but for Gpu number : 33.14 ==> 24.60 .i thought mantle was supposed to improve both Gpu and Cpu ?

Edit: on 8350 and i7 3970x , both numbers for mantle are lower than DX11????

He said look at the graph, not the 3 mean numbers. The graph! Look at it!

[Sparky]

Star Swarm demo is out on Steam, by the way.

Great. Now we just need the Mantle drivers from AMD!

[blindbox]

Great. Now we just need the Mantle drivers from AMD!

It's 3 GB. You definitely want to download it first. We still get to see nice space battles on DX, though. Link for the lazy. http://store.steampowered.com/app/267130/

EDIT: I was wrong, it's only 400 MB, but requires 3 GB of space.

[Lightman]

Yeah! Frame times are a lot more consistent on Mantle for both APU and dedicated GPU's tested. This makes me happy!

[DefStar]

The Star Swarm HUD looks very non-emmersive with all those semi-transparent squares it looks like a photo-shop GUI, seems like they could have done something a little sexier.

Idea: they need to make games with voice controlled HUD elements that auto-hide...something like wearing google-glass?

[blindbox]

Star Swarm isn't a game. They never said it will be a game. Oxide is working on a different title, Star Swarm is just for their stress testing and engine optimizations. That said, the loading time is horrendous and it's a really, really unfancy GUI, you're right. They did call it an alpha....

[behrouz]

He said look at the graph, not the 3 mean numbers. The graph! Look at it!

lol !! now i saw summary of the test :

DX11 : avg 26.6 ms/f (37.6 fps) 18.87 ms/f (52.9 fps) 13.24 ms/f (78.4 fps)
Mantle : avg 23.3 ms/f (43 fps) 15.08 ms/f (66.3 fps) 8.38 ms/f (121.5 fps)
Improvement 14% faster 25.1% faster 58% faster

So the effect of mantle on Crossfire is high but quick question : will mantle support Nvidia ?

[Hornet331]

tbh, anyone else also only gets 2 cores utilized? Evne with 7k units on the map it never uses more then 2 cores of the cpu.

Yeah! Frame times are a lot more consistent on Mantle for both APU and dedicated GPU's tested. This makes me happy!

you still forget the NV manages to do very good frame pacing on single (and multi gpu) cards with DX, so its more a thing of the driver then the api. Hell before cat 13.8 amd cards had something like 10 times the the deviation between frames then NV.

[DefStar]

Star Swarm isn't a game. They never said it will be a game. Oxide is working on a different title, Star Swarm is just for their stress testing and engine optimizations. That said, the loading time is horrendous and it's a really, really unfancy GUI, you're right. They did call it an alpha....

Haha, I thought it was a game...thanks for the info.

It is disappointing that they rebbaged the 7970 and 7950 as part of the R9 series but AMD is going to stagger Mantle support on them...at least Frame Pacing v.2 supports them.

I always thought Xbox was better than playstation due to having Direct X support but Mantle will make that irrelevant it seems. Should Mantle worry Microsoft? Edit: Nevermind, Mantle can't be used with consoles...

Edit: I'm reading that Mantle brings low level api support to pc that is similar to the low level api support direct x 11.x brings to Xbox one...but Microsoft will bring this low level api support to pc eventually...Mantle will just be replaced by an updated DX 12 or whatever for pc.

[MaddMuppet]

I really, really wish AMD would release these drivers. It's now the weekend and i'm hanging out to try these out on Battlefield.

[KiSUAN]

As mentioned in our older article from Thursday, AMD discovered a major bug with its Catalyst 14.2 driver at the last minute, which threw a wrench in the works at the company. The driver was originally slated to come out in sync with DICE' update of Battlefield 4 on Thursday. AMD now tells us that their teams have been working overnight to fix the driver, and should have their next status update for us by mid-afternoon EST (New York time), later today. That update doesn't necessarily mean a driver release at that point in time, and so AMD might be forced to label it Catalyst 14.2 beta, keeping up with its calendar-based driver version naming. Catalyst 14.1 beta was expected to ship the first public distribution of Mantle, AMD's ambitious 3D graphics API to rival Direct3D and OpenGL.

AMD also mentioned a 24 hour exclusive period for press to evaluate the driver before public release, so it looks like your download will be at least 36 hours away.

http://www.techpowerup.com/197425/am...r-delayed.html

[kromosto]

but quick question : will mantle support Nvidia ?

question is wrong. as amd states mantle is open to everybody question should be "will Nvidia support mantle?"

[Lightman]

tbh, anyone else also only gets 2 cores utilized? Evne with 7k units on the map it never uses more then 2 cores of the cpu.



you still forget the NV manages to do very good frame pacing on single (and multi gpu) cards with DX, so its more a thing of the driver then the api. Hell before cat 13.8 amd cards had something like 10 times the the deviation between frames then NV.

I'm not forgetting anything and my post didn't imply that at all.
Besides, even nVidia have their bad frame pacing events and it all depends primary on the game engine and not driver. AMD had huge problem with CF frame pacing and not so big issue with single card. I've stopped using CF setups around HD4870 because it was pointless from a gamer perspective even though no one at the time was discussing this issue, but now I'm back with CF on R9 290X and for the first time in many years I want to play with AFR on in most of games. Seems like Mantle will make my experience even better, at least for BF4 initially.

[Nizzen]

Mantle Known Issues List

Last Updates: 1/29/2014
Lower-than-expected performance on AMD Radeon™ HD 7000 and HD 8000 Series GPUs
Lower-than-expected performance on AMD Radeon™ R9 280X and R9 270X GPUs
Multi-GPU support will be added to StarSwarm in a future application patch
Battlefield 4™ Multi-GPU improvements will be made available in future updates
BattleField 4™ + AMD CrossFire™ stability and stuttering issues are still under investigation
Notebooks based on AMD Enduro or PowerXpress™ technologies are currently not supported
Portrait mode display configurations are currently not supported in Battlefield 4™
AMD Eyefinity technology is not currently supported in StarSwarm

Epic fail?