Dual 120 Heatercore

[JDizzle]

I'm sorry if this has been posted, I just skimmed through the whole thread. What were your temps w/ the caprice hc and what are your temps now?

[Weapon]

Originally posted by JDizzle
I'm sorry if this has been posted, I just skimmed through the whole thread. What were your temps w/ the caprice hc and what are your temps now?

the caprice cores I previously used were fairly comparable to the 1st bonneville cores I tried but they have just a hair bit less capacity.

caprice core specs:
10-1/2" x 5-5/8" x 2" w/o the tanks

bonneville specs:
10-3/4" X 5-5/8" X 2" w/o the tanks

those are the dimensions for the cores on both models. from the dimensions you would expect them to be very close in performance with maybe very slightly better performance from the bonneville as it has just a bit more surface area. that is provided that both have the same inlet and outlet fittings.

the fittings (and PITA experiences with the new caprice tubes) were the main reason for the move to the bonneville cores. the factory tubes come out easily (provided you check the core they try to sell you before you buy it) and they are dirt cheap.

that was the original logic. after working with the bonneville cores for a while I realized there are other reasons to use the bonneville cores, such as:
1. the top tank on the b'ville core is usually a 2 stage type that provides a nice soldering pad for the new fittings. this makes the fittings extremely stable.
2. the inlet and outlet fittings are identical in size. I mentioned this earlier but it makes the fitting swap-out so much easier that it warrants mentioning again.
3. the design of the top tank allows for modifications that cannot be done without some insane effort on the caprice cores. one of these mods in particular will give the bonneville core a decent performance edge over the caprice core.
4. It seems that more of the b'ville cores are of the preferable copper construction (copper tanks, copper sides, copper core) as opposed to brass tanks and sides.

I mentioned the latest mod to the b'ville in an earlier post - it definitely gives this core an edge over the caprice. With the latest design of the shroud, it has kicked the cooling up enough to get me another few deg C which was a bit of a surprise (I thought I had already hit the max with this one). I am going to try to pick up another b'ville soon so I can take pics of the mod - I doubt a text explanation would do it justice.

now that I have typed a short book...
CPU temps with the caprice core were running anywhere from 7-9 deg C over the mobo temp reading at full load.
the b'ville core was averaging about 1-2C cooler depending on ambient temps.
the latest mod widened the gap - about 5 deg C cooler on average than with the caprice core. that is due to improved air and water flow (mods to inlet/outlet, mods to shroud design).

in comparison to any of the commercial rads I have tried, it hammers all of them.

[LAy3r_III]

This is an outstanding thread. Thnx Weapon for sharing. Im currently getting parts to built a nice H2o setup. <$20 for a heatcore is great. I will take a trip to autozone.

Thnx again for sharing and good luck on all projects.

[Weapon]

Originally posted by LAy3r_III
This is an outstanding thread. Thnx Weapon for sharing. Im currently getting parts to built a nice H2o setup. <$20 for a heatcore is great. I will take a trip to autozone.

Thnx again for sharing and good luck on all projects.

thanks.

when you go to get the heatercore, make them pull it out of the box before you buy it. if you have already bought it and it is the wrong one, see if they will exchange it.

how to tell the right one from the wrong one?
check the pic:


they are both heatercores for the same model - 77 bonneville.
the one on the left is clearly brass-sided with brass tanks where the one on the right has copper sides and tanks. I slipped up once and didnt check and that is how the brass one wound up in my collection. they have the same markings on the box.
the tubes on the brass-sided ones I have seen are not as easy to mod as the copper ones.

if there is an advance auto store near you, check there - I havent seen any of the brass sided ones from advance.

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by Weapon

they are both heatercores for the same model - 77 bonneville.
the one on the left is clearly brass-sided with brass tanks where the one on the right has copper sides and tanks. I slipped up once and didnt check and that is how the brass one wound up in my collection. they have the same markings on the box.
the tubes on the brass-sided ones I have seen are not as easy to mod as the copper ones.

brass-sided one's bottom tank looks smaller too...

[gkiing]

D'oh, I just bought a brass 77 bonneville, and I already put barbs in it.. oh well, is there really a performance difference?

[Weapon]

Originally posted by gkiing
D'oh, I just bought a brass 77 bonneville, and I already put barbs in it.. oh well, is there really a performance difference?

if there is, I'd think it would be an extremely small difference as the actual core (finned area where all the cooling takes place) is copper on either version. the main reason I try to avoid the brass tanked version is they often have tubes that are damn close to impossible to get out of the core (i.e. they locked in with a combination of a crimp, a barb and solder). The copper ones usually have tubes that will come out after being hit with a torch for a couple seconds.

[Weapon]

'77 bonneville (dual pass, fedco 2-302) vs. '70 chevy truck (single pass, fedco 2-342) testing coming soon. I got one of the 2-342 cores modded out and it is just about ready for testing.

[Silver]

I have a brass one in use and the temps are quite acceptable for most. I have however purchased another with an eye to copper and it is copper (got it right this time). I will be using both together. I believe Weapon is right on with performance being negligible (sp) between the two. After all we are looking at pulling 23c or so to ambient of 20c or so. Not a whole lot to work with there.

[metasparks]

just got two brass.. Any copper where impossible to find here in Tampa, FL... 10 auto stores and none had them copper.... oh well...

[xpr-k]

I managed to find an import store that sells these things in the netherlands . Price including tax = 70 euros . Its just not fair how cheap you overseas bastards can buy brand new heatercores . 18$ = 14.82 euro ffs :c . Still its cheaper then buying a BIX extreme II which sells for about 105 euros here .

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by xpr-k
I managed to find an import store that sells these things in the netherlands . Price including tax = 70 euros . Its just not fair how cheap you overseas bastards can buy brand new heatercores . 18$ = 14.82 euro ffs :c . Still its cheaper then buying a BIX extreme II which sells for about 105 euros here .

you might want to investigate the heater matrix (or whatever you call a heatercore in flemish) for on opel manta or kadett - brass/copper versions of them exist.....

[xpr-k]

yeah i know, i dont know the exact price of them but your still looking @ 40 to 50 euros if you want it new (educated guess) . Cheapest would be to get one from the junkyard but the required cleaning puts me off tbh .
Ive had my eye on this one , its not for a dual fan solution but i dont think i need it . Im only interested in cooling my CPU, i got a mobile+dfi combo so i am interested in high end cooling .




Heres a few other interesting models ;]

[Weapon]

Originally posted by xpr-k
I managed to find an import store that sells these things in the netherlands . Price including tax = 70 euros . Its just not fair how cheap you overseas bastards can buy brand new heatercores . 18$ = 14.82 euro ffs :c . Still its cheaper then buying a BIX extreme II which sells for about 105 euros here .

did you check on shipping rates for USA to netherlands? USPS shipping might not be that much if you can wait awhile for it to get there...

302 vs. 342 is on hold until a new pump with sane levels of flow and head arrives. the Rainbow Lifeguard ignored any obstacles in its path as it blasted water thru the dual pass core. I doubt that will be the case with more standard pump. Anyway, I orderd another pump for round 2 and it should be here fairly soon.

[xpr-k]

A 4 pound package to belgium using airmail parcel post (its only 2$ more then economy but its 4-10 days compared to 4-6weeks!) will cost me 20.25$ . And ive been told that extra custom charges are calculated like this :

Special import tax = 6% of the combined value of package + shipping .
VAT = 21% of the combined value of the package, shipping AND the added import tax .

So for 49$ this thing should be on my doorstep..., thats 40euro oO . Mmmm interesting..., theres a customs boot at my work, I think im gonna verify the above calculation there. If its correct im ordering! Well unless the opel heatercore turns out to be 20 euros or summit :p, which i very much doubt .


UPDATE] Well i just got home from my local autoparts dealer, the core i showed is being sold brand new for the price of 70!! euro :c .

[Gogeta]

Originally posted by xpr-k

I really like those barb placements...I'm guessing its a detriment to flow though.

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by xpr-k
A 4 pound package to belgium using airmail parcel post (its only 2$ more then economy but its 4-10 days compared to 4-6weeks!) will cost me 20.25$ . And ive been told that extra custom charges are calculated like this :

Special import tax = 6% of the combined value of package + shipping .
VAT = 21% of the combined value of the package, shipping AND the added import tax .

So for 49$ this thing should be on my doorstep..., thats 40euro oO . Mmmm interesting..., theres a customs boot at my work, I think im gonna verify the above calculation there. If its correct im ordering! Well unless the opel heatercore turns out to be 20 euros or summit :p, which i very much doubt .

i suspect it'd weigh more than that once it's packed..... but it's definitely viable...

[xpr-k]

Originally posted by Gogeta
I really like those barb placements...I'm guessing its a detriment to flow though.

Yeah i was wondering about the differences in design . The cores used in this thread seem to have seperated IN/OUT chambers , while most cores i can find here dont seem to have em . Ide love to hear speculation on the effect this would have on the flow/cooling .

[daisaw1219]

are the threads needed becasue the heatercore looks like when u tap it there would only be like 2 or 3 threads at the most. and also how did u make that shroud. thanks

[Weapon]

Originally posted by daisaw1219
are the threads needed becasue the heatercore looks like when u tap it there would only be like 2 or 3 threads at the most. and also how did u make that shroud. thanks

the threads are not absolutely required but if you are using threaded fittings they definitely make life easier. The top tank is not that thick but threading it does add a decent bit of support.

The threads provide a really tight fit between the metal on the tank and the metal on the barb - the close fit improves the solder seal. Threading the holes in the tanks also makes getting the barbs in straight much easier.

Trying to get a semi-tight fit between the tanks and the threads on the barbed fittings without tapping the hole in the top tanks is three times as much trouble as trying to get the fittings into the tank straight without the threads- not to mention getting the barbs lined up with each other.

the shroud on the black '77 core and the one on the metallic red core are both plexi shrouds. They are not really that difficult to make but they do require a little time and measuring.

On both of the plexishrouds, I used the same approach. First, I went to Lowes and bought eight 1" nylon spacers (more on this in a sec). Then, I measured out a top plate that would have enough space to mount the fans while leaving 5mm between the 2 fans and 5 mm between the outer edges of the fans and the edge of the top plate.

After I figured out the size, I just cut a rectangular top plate out of 1/4" plexi - I think the top plates on both are right at 255mm x 130mm. Once I had that section cut, I laid the fans on it and checked the spacing - it looked right so I marked the center point for each fan and used a 120mm wire grill to mark the points I would need to drill out for the fan screws.

After I had the 4 holes drilled out for each fan, I placed the 1" nylon spacers between the top plate and the core and used threaded rods with nuts to hold the top plate in place on top of the nylon spacers until I could measure the gap between the edge of the top plate and the edge of the core on all four sides. That will give you the measurements for the side panels and the panel for the bottom and top. Since the side panels will have to be at a bit of an outward angle, they will have to be a little taller than 25mm and about 270 mm long at the base (same as the length of the core)

check this link - it will make more sense after you read this:
http://www.dwpg.com/content.php?cont...4&orgartid=134
it is basically the same, except I used 1/4" plexi and some adhesive.

I have some metal ones that I have made but they require some torch action...

[Darkenreaper57]

Weapon, on your bonnie core shroud, did you adjust the sides so they form an angle inward, towards the fans, or did you just make them parallel to the sides of the core?

Also, what would you suggest (will there be any difference in performace?)

Finally, do you think I would achieve lower temperatures if i put the top plate 1.5 or 2 inches from the top of the core instead of 1 inch?

I am making a similar shroud out of 1/4'' plexi.

Thanks.

[Weapon]

Originally posted by Darkenreaper57
Weapon, on your bonnie core shroud, did you adjust the sides so they form an angle inward, towards the fans, or did you just make them parallel to the sides of the core?

Also, what would you suggest (will there be any difference in performace?)

Finally, do you think I would achieve lower temperatures if i put the top plate 1.5 or 2 inches from the top of the core instead of 1 inch?

I am making a similar shroud out of 1/4'' plexi.

Thanks.

the sides of my shroud have a slight angle on them - the top plate that the fans are mounted upon is a bit slimmer than the width of the core. The sides help to funnel air into the fans while eliminating the dead spot beneath the fans.

you can see the angle in this pic:



with 120mm fans, a 2" standoff might have slightly lower temps...

[Darkenreaper57]

Ok, thanks for the reply. I'm in the process of making my own shroud now, similar to yours, but a bit larger. I plan on keeping it clear, though, I think it will have a nice look when it is completed.

I'll be sure to post some pics of it once completed.

[Weapon]

built one out of 22 gauge that encloses the entire core w/ a venturi shroud mounted to it. it's for an external top mount:

[Andrew]

Weapon, Any news on the single vs. dual pass test?