AMD to Disclose Details About Bulldozer Micro-Architecture in August

[Tomasis]

Your avatar is... why is that red-skinned person shoving a skyscraper up their backside?

stop watching :banana::banana::banana::banana:

[terrace215]

btw, I don't understand you simple predict from the presentation chart; that ain't precision/accurate chart, so stop speculating and extracting information out of such presentation chart.

read to the end of the thread... this has been resolved, and I'm no longer asking about the chart.

let me remind you, his avatar is a red sun and the yellow thingy was a building, asian style building.

Some see a vase, some see two faces...

[Mats]

let me remind you, his avatar is a red sun and the yellow thingy was a building, asian style building.

You're right, that's (probably) the original idea. But I found the pic when I searched "best logo ever".
Nuff said..

[haylui]

If my speculation & questions about JF's previously posted information on an upcoming product upset you, maybe ignore my posts, this thread, etc?

you know what makes most of the people feeling annoyed?
is that you don't even understand what is the presentation and chart do mean.
Don't waste time predicting what camera produce a photo by just looking at the photo.

[haylui]

read to the end of the thread... this has been resolved, and I'm no longer asking about the chart.



Some see a vase, some see two faces...

but I guess you do not have the right to comment on other's avatar
do you?
and stop watching :banana::banana::banana::banana:s
lolz

[Manicdan]

you know what makes most of the people feeling annoyed?
is that you don't even understand what is the presentation and chart do mean.
Don't waste time predicting what camera produce a photo by just looking at the photo.

i enjoyed the initial conspiracy theorys that were coming out. i got bored with the nagging for details started

[LightSpeed]

i enjoyed the initial conspiracy theorys that were coming out. i got bored with the nagging for details started

Exactly. Finding out minute details from sources not even close to being exact is what bothered me. nvm..

[savantu]

There is a presentation by Chuck Moore, where he wrote up about the same statements he's presented later, while already at AMD:
http://www.ece.rochester.edu/~albone...ides/moore.pdf

I don't think BD has any relation whatsoever with Trips. The people who designed BD did so in 2005-2007 and most have left AMD by now.

One of the possible ways to evade to is to go to a cycletime, where instruction throughput (per unit time) peaks. Most of today's IPC is achieved by increasing complexity, thus increasing die area (and ever increasing static leakage) and limiting cycletime (or even decreasing without new processes), which means nearly stagnating clock frequencies. What if design gets simplified (lowering IPC), but allows for 20% or more area savings and increasing clock frequency (without having to increase voltage, since less complex circuitry does the job faster). Well, this is just one idea.

You're basically talking Netburst. Those were the premises on which Netburst was based. It is interesting to see that they are more valid today than in the past. It very well could be that we will see a Netburst revisited uarch for the upcoming process nodes. There's a limit to the Pentium Pro off springs anyway.
The lead uarch for Nehalem said that if they would have used Netburst as a starting point for Nehalem and not Core, the performance would have been higher, but with worse energy efficiency. Interesting remark anyway ( from a Stanford lecture on Nehalem ).

Having different clock domains in a module would allow to choose closer to optimal cycle times for different units, also driven by the type of work to do. E.g. decoding could have a longer pipeline if some trace caches and good branch prediction is present. A shared FPU would also be a candidate for a longer pipeline while integer cores could benefit from a short schedule execute loop and be clocked lower, but be 4-wide. There are so many possible techniques...

True. However, the word no to forget is latency, whenever you need to cross clock domains or arbitrate streams you have latency.

What can be different are the granularity and the units themselves.

Granularity: power down/up, clock differently the different subunits, as power budget permits and queue fill level requires

Units: scale them to what fits best and optimize power usage this way.. e.g. switch off some L2 cache ways or execution units
or activate them as needed (by tracking the upcoming instructions and powering up/clocking the appropriate subunits).

When you have so many cores, it becomes a bit useless to think as small as powering different units down, its way better to power cores down as done in Nehalem. I mean, from 8 modules, what's the benefit of shutting down 3 integer clusters ? Why not turn off 2 modules ?
Regarding caches, you always need to maintain coherency ( so L3 isn't a candidate ), so powering down the L2 , you can as well power down the cores attached to it.

[FlanK3r]

I don't think BD has any relation whatsoever with Trips. The people who designed BD did so in 2005-2007 and most have left AMD by now.

lol, now?! Now is AMD in very good position behind last 2 years! Began it with HD4000 and Phenom II launch in january 2009 ( first maybe 2008 with first Phenoms B3 revision and good mainstream series HD3000). And now, HD5000 is dominate, Thuban are great (great performance, OC potencial, power consumption at 45nm 6 cores is beautiful)

[savantu]

I don't think BD has any relation whatsoever with Trips. The people who designed BD did so in 2005-2007 and most have left AMD by now.

lol, now?! Now is AMD in very good position behind last 2 years! Began it with HD4000 and Phenom II launch in january 2009 ( first maybe 2008 with first Phenoms B3 revision and good mainstream series HD3000). And now, HD5000 is dominate, Thuban are great (great performance, OC potencial, power consumption at 45nm 6 cores is beautiful)

And your point is ?

[Shadov]

And your point is ?

That AMD is in a good position contrary to your disbelief and fanboi outbreaks on the forums?

[Helmore]

That AMD is in a good position contrary to your disbelief and fanboi outbreaks on the forums?

Could we stop using the f word? (fanboy) Savantu is only trying to prove Dresdenboy wrong, that's something that should be normal in any proper discussion. I don't see anything fanboy about that, he's just trying to realistic in his own ways even though you might consider it to be pessimistic.

[Mats]

Could we stop using the f word? (fanboy) Savantu is only trying to prove Dresdenboy wrong, that's something that should be normal in any proper discussion. I don't see anything fanboy about that, he's just trying to realistic in his own ways even though you might consider it to be pessimistic.

+1
You guys are talking about two different things. savantu talkks about that pdf, and FlanK3r about something else..

[MrMojoZ]

Could we stop using the f word? (fanboy) Savantu is only trying to prove Dresdenboy wrong, that's something that should be normal in any proper discussion. I don't see anything fanboy about that, he's just trying to realistic in his own ways even though you might consider it to be pessimistic.

So the guy who used to a use sig that mocked AMD and has routinely attacked any thread about AMD products is "just trying to realistic in his own ways"? I don't believe that, history says otherwise.

[OhNoes!]

So the guy who used to a use sig that mocked AMD and has routinely attacked any thread about AMD products is "just trying to realistic in his own ways"? I don't believe that, history says otherwise.

How come your ONLY contribution to this thread, and many others, I must say, is to always go after perceived anti-AMD contributors. There's some great info in this thread, you can focus on that or you can choose to focus on peoples sigs. Stay out if you have nothing better to contribute.

[Manicdan]

How come your ONLY contribution to this thread, and many others, I must say, is to always go after perceived anti-AMD contributors. There's some great info in this thread, you can focus on that or you can choose to focus on peoples sigs. Stay out if you have nothing better to contribute.

same was said to you, thanks for coming back bringing this message

[MrMojoZ]

How come your ONLY contribution to this thread, and many others, I must say, is to always go after perceived anti-AMD contributors. There's some great info in this thread, you can focus on that or you can choose to focus on peoples sigs. Stay out if you have nothing better to contribute.

And most of those people don't actually contribute anything either, they just want to drive the thread into worthlessness. And they do it over and over. Why aren't you asking them the same questions? I'm all up for debate and discussion, but that isn't what happens in these threads once certain people jump in. These threads get derailed long before I make any posts.

[Sparky]

same was said to you, thanks for coming back bringing this message

*snicker*

[blindbox]

lol
man you have a serious perception error
btw, I don't understand you simple predict from the presentation chart; that ain't precision/accurate chart, so stop speculating and extracting information out of such presentation chart.
stop doing such simple calculation here and assume BullDozer would scale in linear way. Most of the time, the scaling is non-linear(if you understand what i mean)

let me remind you, his avatar is a red sun and the yellow thingy was a building, asian style building.

TOTAL OT:
The power of suggestion. I took a look at the picture and I see what he means there. Got me laughing

[Helmore]

TOTAL OT:
The power of suggestion. I took a look at the picture and I see what he means there. Got me laughing

I have also always wondered what Mats' avatar was supposed to be and I was thinking along the same line as savantu but I didn't dare to ask .

[Clairvoyant129]

Anandtech is not middle of world . U read maybe 1-5 review, i read 40. TRy example encoding videos 6x in the same time and u will see diference. Now im in work, but later at home, can u send PM with reviews. Definetely, x6 1090T is in real multi thread aplication compared with i7 965 +-.PS: games are ok, but its not optimalized for more than quadcores (i mean not 10% load at others cores, its nothing). Watch in games at x4 965 and x6 1090T. 965 BE will better.

Yes and how many apps take advantage of more than 4 cores? Single threaded performance is still relevant today. Only thing AMD has it going is brute force with more cores and high clock speeds.

[pokipoki]

Yes and how many apps take advantage of more than 4 cores? Single threaded performance is still relevant today. Only thing AMD has it going is brute force with more cores and high clock speeds.

The kernel and the whole operating system. Linux and any other *nix systems welcome more cores. Apps? Highly threaded video encoding : mencoder, transcode - databases, rendering for example.

Instead of ditching the cpu which has more cores, people should ditch the OS or apps which can't fully utilize the *expensive* cpu they just bought. What a waste!

HT is the perfect mask to fool the OS/app/*user that they're doing high level computing. Give real cores to the workload and see them crunch it!

Upgrade the computing instead of the computer. But wait! Ask Intel to upgrade the HT to x3 : 4 cores gives 12 threads. Now that's computing higher as ever.

On linux, try

make all -j100

and split the workload into a 100 threads shared by 2 cores, but it won't make any headway with either speed or time taken to compile. Might be better off with just

make all -j4

or

make all -j2

[FlanK3r]

Clairvoyant129: good question . But future is not only for single operations. Who want PC for internet, movies etc, dont need Quadcores, he pay some dual core. Who wnat more, example gaming Arma, GTA, Battlefield, working in 3D, workling with graphic programs, making and editing videos, this people need more than dualcores (as minimal triple core or dual with HT). And enthusiast also.
But u are right, most aplliactions is optimalized for single or dual cores (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ling,2652.html , here we can see big diference from single up to dualcore), i see minimum dualcore as new build PC today. If today are still mostly single threaded operations, we have at modern CPUs turbo aplications. But...if we compared example E8400 with todays CPUs core to core, dont seen big diference (1 core E8400 is very simillary to x2 550 BE or some core i7 core without turbo).
Good point is more and more multithreaded operation for consumers and in CPU maybe project Fusion.

[Clairvoyant129]

The kernel and the whole operating system. Linux and any other *nix systems welcome more cores. Apps? Highly threaded video encoding : mencoder, transcode - databases, rendering for example.

Instead of ditching the cpu which has more cores, people should ditch the OS or apps which can't fully utilize the *expensive* cpu they just bought. What a waste!

HT is the perfect mask to fool the OS/app/*user that they're doing high level computing. Give real cores to the workload and see them crunch it!

Upgrade the computing instead of the computer.

HT fools the user huh? And where is your assumption based on? Do you have a evidence that shows HT doesn't improve performance? From my understanding and in the reviews I have seen HT has a positive impact on performance. So if it does add performance why not use it?

[Manicdan]

HT fools the user huh? And where is your assumption based on? Do you have a evidence that shows HT doesn't improve performance? From my understanding and in the reviews I have seen HT has a positive impact on performance. So if it does add performance why not use it?

id say the marketing of intel fools the user

the commercials talk about the turbo feature of the cpu as being better than the internet, wifi, and some other things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSqMTWrlF-8